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Comment: Black Pride and prejudice

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  1. ♥ this article… best article i think i’ve ever seen on pinknews. thank you for writing this, hopefully the readers actually pause to give it some thought. It amazes me how white gays see nothing wrong with gays “self segregating” but are threatened when minorities do, yet cant see how the motivations could be similar

  2. Paul, thank you for your kind words, I’m Max (Kevin, the author). I hope it’s as positive as your comments, best wishes x

  3. Interesting article, but you never mentioned all those black profiles on gaydar that state no whites and the racism that black gay men subject white gay men to, both on and off the scene (in fact you dont mention anything negative about black gay men hmmmm)….I have been going to Prides internationally for over 10 years and NEVER have I seen anyone excluded due to their race which leaves me a little confused at your comments about the need for a black pride, have you attended previous prides in the UK? I’m sure if you have you would have seen the thousands of Black and Asian men (and women) who attend these events every year and dont feel so persecuted….Perhaps people should focus more on being happy rather than highlighting the negative aspects of the gay community – we are supposed to be all ‘as one’ after all.

    I have been in an interacial relationship for over 5 years and am very happy, we all have stories of woe from our friends and loved ones over the years…I hate any kind of segregation but it is also interesting to note that I have twice enquired about how welcome I would be at both Black Pride and a launch event of Gay Black London earlier this year and on BOTH occasions I wasnt made to feel either inclusive or welcome….Perhaps the racism you speak of isnt only one way….? Just a thought

  4. Hi Karl, debate is healthy. Obviously, I can only speak from my experiences in life and write from my perspective as I see it. I have been to many Prides, Manchester, London, Brighton and so on over the years. Alex my husband is white and as the article indicated, I am of mixed-race heritage, my mum being white English. I’m not saying there isn’t racism from ethnic minorities, but I have never personally witnessed this. Maybe this is something for someone else to write about. I can only write about what I know, factual. Thank you for your comment anyway, Max.

  5. marjangles 20 Aug 2010, 4:39pm

    I have no issues with Black Pride and I hate those idiotic comments by people who say ‘if it was white pride it would be racist.’ I do think it’s a real shame and embarrassment that gay people as a minority feel it appropriate to display a level of prejudice towards another minority. And of course there are racist gay people but they’re not all white as you seem to be implying. I also think that it is wrong to infer racism from gaydar profiles since people are simply being honest and there are plenty of profiles which ask for black only/asian only etc both from white and ethnic minority members.

    I also note that you haven’t referred to the fact that there are high levels of homophobia amongst ethnic minoriy groups, it was the support of the black community in California for example that led to the passing of Proposition 8. Is it ok for an ethnic minority to be prejudiced against a minority sexual orientation? And, as misguided as it may be, could that not be a root cause of some of the animosity towards ethnic minority gay people (if such actually exists since as Karl states above, I have never witnessed at any Pride event anyone of any ethnicity being treated poorly).

    There are a lot of issues that need to be dealt with in this regard but your article seems to suggest that white gay people are in some way solely to blame for ills in the gay community which is unfair.

  6. I must say it was a well written and well thought out piece of writing. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
    I have to say that although I have no issue with ‘Black Pride’ per se I do feel that these events can sometimes create a divide.
    As a gay white man I have to admit the three times I’ve suffered homophobic abuse has been at the hands of black men and women. Of course, this does not denote that all black men and women are homophobic by default but I do feel that a lot of instances of racism are born of a distrust of the black community because of instances of homophobia.
    As was previously mentioned, there are plenty of profiles on gaydar which outline tastes and preferences and I do not believe that taste is indicative of racism. However, gaydar is a meat market anyhow where the primary focus is on what one ‘wants’ so it’s a dubious example of racism to use.

  7. hi kevin I posted on the matter last week. I am white man living in Harlesden NW London and I am subjected to racism and homophobia from many young black males and increasing from young black girls. I do not consider myself racist. When I have been abused the though is you moron skin colour dos not come into the equation. We are all human and it the person not the colour. I would like to think that racist is less of an issue in the LGBT community, I could be wrong.

    I was interested in your comments that ‘Prides throughout the UK take place every other month of the year and these do not readily accept visible ethnic gay men and indeed women into the mainstream white gay community.’ I don’t believe that is fair to make this claim without any evidence.

    With regard to Gaydar you state you have seen no blacks or Asians – I’ve seen that as well but I’ve also seen no fatties and a member saying no Asians who themselves was black.

    I dont understand why someone can hate another based on skin colour but I guess education is the key to better acceptance in the long term.

  8. I can see why you feel the need to have Black pride, I just would of hoped it could be incorporated into the main pride events. I see no reason why a Black Pride area could not be set up in the same way we have trans, lesbian, gay and bisexual spaces and positions in the parade.

    Its worth noting that members of the BNP do post on PinkNews and they are in no way representative of 95% of other commentators.

    “It doesn’t matter how nice you are as a black or Asian person, how well you get on with white people, how many white friends you have or how good-looking and cool you are, no one is immune from racism. Prejudice in all forms is as prevalent in the gay community as it is in the mainstream, it’s pointless saying otherwise. It is naive to think that just because white gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people themselves are a minority and have their own challenges in life, that they are welcoming to visible ethnic gay or indeed straight people.”

    This comment works both ways, the black and Asian community are also prejudice against white people too. Its insulting to think discrimination only flows one way Kevin Maxwell.

    At some point we should all come and stand together against all forms of racism, homophobia, biphobia and transphobia.

  9. I had hoped that this article was going to be somewhat ‘inclusive’ and positive, but sadly no…This isnt journalism Kevin and as a writer I would have thought you would have known better….Finger pointing doesnt make the issue go away it just makes it worse, I agree with Helen above and am rather insulted that you seem to think discrimination only flows one way…It seems rather evident that you have taken exception to previous isolated comments about Black Pride and decided to write a feature blasting everyone else but not a word about the black community

    You say you have been honest and upfront with your white friends about racism, have they told you about their experience too? You dont seem to mention it….I could tell you first hand what it feels like to be holding your partners hand (of colour) whilst other gay black men shouted at him that he was betraying his own race and I’m sure many more people of many other races will have their own stories. We need to be more inclusive and welcoming at all events/bars/club nights/social activities – Personally I would much prefer a diverse world learning about everyones different cultures rather than segregated events.

    Oh, and I actually paid to go to Black Pride last week and I’ll never go back, I wasn’t made to feel welcome at all, infact quite the opposite (“WTF is he doing here?” seemed a common phrase most black men said when I wondered around) which was very disappointing, people in glasshouses Kevin…

  10. A shame I couldn’t have attended Black Pride – though i hope it doesn’t mean that ethnic minorities become less involved in the July London Pride. It’s really important that we all show solidarity with those who suffer from extreme homophobia in Africa (spread by white colonials andwhite US extremist evangelicals / reconstructionists).

    Another point is to distinguish between religion, ethnicity and multicultural etiquette. Hold contempt for what people say and do, not for their nature.

    PS As for ‘gaydar’ profiles – well I wouldn’t read too much into that. I put that down to immaturity, rather than racism.From past experience, they don’t know what they are missing.

  11. None Given 20 Aug 2010, 5:59pm

    “I’m not saying there isn’t racism from ethnic minorities, but I have never personally witnessed this.” KEVIN/MAX WHAT PLANET DO YOU LIVE ON??? You just choose not to see it, its not worth further comment from me

  12. You say in your article…….”For whatever the reason, if BME people feel they need or indeed want to hold this type of event, then why not?”…………for the same reason that a group of white gay men shouldn’t arrange a ‘White Pride’ event if they felt the need to, the BNP hold such events and I don’t like them either….. “Why shouldn’t members of the BME community enjoy the same rights and freedoms as the rest of the UK population?”……….they already do. In fact, as a white gay man I can’t get married, I have friends who are black and straight and are married, so I’d say black couples have more rights than me in this country – incidentally, I spoke to the black couple about this event, and they were very annoyed about it being called ‘Black Pride’, they said it had nothing to do with being black, it had everything to do with being homosexual. But then, they are a bit homophobic in my opinion. Which is another reason why I thought that ‘black pride’ was a good idea – to get rid of some of the homophobia in the black community, to actually show black and asians that they are gay too – the amount of times I have heard black and asian men and women say ‘homosexuality’ is a ‘white mans disease’ – which is of course homophobic and racist. (yes black people are racist too you know, and homophobic)

    Gay Pride is a political event for LGBT to try and gain equality from the heterosexual community isn’t it?, and to give solidarity to GAY people – it should not be split up and fragmented into black, handicapped, ginger haired, skinny, or whatever sub culture/group there is, that feels left out. – any fragmentation becomes a social event, a fetish event – not a political event, therefore not a gay pride.
    Black pride is doing what, saying to the white european gay community…..”you’re racist”????, “we don’t feel loved”.

    I also thought the event was a good idea because I am attracted to black men, so I would have gone just for that – but I found out too late. Sorry if that offends, I know Dean called me patronising on the last comments, but I’m not being partonising, I fancy black men more than white men – sorry Dean.

    Jeez, I’m ginger and get so much stick for being ginger, people say on gaydar – ‘no minger ginger please’. But come on, am I really gonna write an article about ‘gingerism’ in the gay community. I couldn’t care less what someone else thought to be honest about me being ginger. And yes I did used to get beaten up for being ginger, I get shouted at walking down the street for being ginger and generally get looked upon as being a ginger freak – so what.

    Your article sounds like a big sob story to me, like you’re suggesting there’s some kind of apartheid in the kingdom of Gaydom, all to justify an event and turn the black community into victims. Your article is divisive, arrogant and unbalanced. Maybe instead of focusing on the racism of white gay men in the UK – which results in gaydar profiles saying ‘no black guys’, (or you not getting as much attention in a gaybar as you’d like) your time would be better spent helping the black gay community in Africa, where they are subjected to torture, imprisonment and murder for being gay.

    btw, I’m organising ‘Ginger Pride’ next year. It will be the first and biggest event for Ginger haired gay men in the world (no lesbians allowed tho – especially black lesbians(did I mention that ‘black pride’ started off as a black lesbians only event)). ‘Ginger Pride’ will be for ginger haired peeps to celebrate their gingerness, anyone who has different coloured hair is welcome, but it is an event for Gingers to celebrate how special they are. Stay tuned. And also my best mate (who is sat beside me) is very skinny (and mixed race). And he gets called ‘skinny’ all the time on the gay scene, and people put ‘no skinny lads’ on their gaydar profile, so he’s saying he’s going to organise ‘Skinny Pride’. Which will be funny, cause then soon there’ll be a gay pride on every day of the year.

  13. To recap my long post above – you’re article is racist.

  14. ………..but you look fit in that hoodie on your website. Soz people, I know this is a serious news site. I’m just saying.

  15. I often hear gay Americans say that they resent the fact that the black community is homophobic and that they should understand, given their experience, how wrong it is to discriminate. My thoughts are usually that it is quite racist to hold the black community to a higher degree of accountability compared to other sections of the population in matters of discrimination. Anti-gay bias is very common, regardless of ethnic background. Now I’m tempted to feel similarly about your criticism of the gay community. Sure, some gay people are going to be racist but why should it be more acceptable (for lack of a better word) for a straight person to be racist? Do they lack the mental capacity to understand what is wrong with racism?

    About gaydar profiles, it seems to me that the common denominator of the majority of gaydar profiles is the people on them are generally quite superficial and are often only looking for sex. A person’s ethnic background has an obvious effect on their appearance and I think people on them are simply stating their aesthetic preference. I don’t think it’s hateful to prefer an appearance over another simply because you can link it to a minority group. I have been rejected by a white guy who only liked black/Asian men. You could construe this as being equally, if not more, racist: not because it’s anti-white but because the fetishisation of an ethnic minority could be seen to be as racist as the opposite response but sexual attraction I think should be kept free of political ramifications. We fancy who we fancy. Can’t we just leave it at that? 

  16. Sister Mary Clarance 20 Aug 2010, 8:48pm

    “You say in your article…….”For whatever the reason, if BME people feel they need or indeed want to hold this type of event, then why not?”…………for the same reason that a group of white gay men shouldn’t arrange a ‘White Pride’ event if they felt the need to, the BNP hold such events and I don’t like them either”

    Jay, I can only assume you are totally against the whole concept of Pride then? ‘Pride’ is about a minority group being proud of what is it, rather than feeling the need to hid or be ashamed.

    Black Pride is about exactly the same, an opportunities for BME gays to stand up an say they are proud to be gay even though/despite/as well as being black. We should all see it as a positive thing that the Pride ethos being is being embraced by other minority groups instead of lambasting and sniping at them.

    I’ve heard exactly the same types of arguments be used against Pride in general – “we should have a straight Pride … blah, blah …”

    As to the last paragraph of your posting, too puerile to even comment on mate. Pathetic!

  17. Max/Kevin – you’ve fallen into the usual trap thinking racism is all one way and ethnic minorities are always the victims – it most certainly isn’t. I have witnessed so much racism towards white folk in Brixton – silly comments from black people, nasty looks, slaping change down on the counter and not in your hand, abuse hurled at bi-racial couples (straight and gay), even hateful comments about new immigrants – eastern europeans taking homes and jobs etc (!).

    So for goodness sake don’t wallow in all that put-upon victimhood. I have a black partner and lots of black and mixed-race friends and they don’t believe a word of all that victim baloney – it just holds you back. Most people don’t give a brass farthing what shade someone is, a minority of black and white people do harbour racial prejudices but that’s their misfortune – we should all rise above it ‘cos they’re not worth bothering with.

  18. I think this was a very well written article and, along with an article in last months Attitude magazine, has brought a lot of attention to issues which need to be urgently addressed.

    There is of course racism in all sexualities. The problem for BME is that, when they are ostracized from straight community for being gay, they need the support and acceptance from the gay community for who they are.
    It is not simply a case of whether a white person fancies you or not, but whether BME gay and bisexual individuals are offered the opportunities and treated with the same respect in the gay community as white gay men are.
    I think that the community has come a long way. Although many gay scenes I’ve visited are filled predominantly with white people, I have not found it harder to make friends with other gay men (of any ethnicity) than my white gay friends. Whilst I say that, I am very much aware that the first thing people will judge me on is my skin colour, and a lot of people (myself included) have seen/heard/experienced homophobia from black people.
    I understand that, for some people, this will stop them from approaching me, and may make them wary of me when I approach them.
    I feel that, rather than associating homophobia with black people, we should associate homophobia with homophobes. It is ignorant and offensive to assume that every black man/woman is a homophobe, just as it is to assume that every Muslim man/woman is a terrorist.
    The way to combat this racial stereotyping, is primarily to integrate BME people into the media and show gay white role models side by side with gay black role models.
    There are currently two gay radio stations in the UK, but there are no BME presenters on Gaydio bar two shows and no BME presenters of Gaydar Radio at all!
    I can see this problem getting better, but very slowly. As more well known gay BME people come out, white and black gay people will appreciate that BME people are accepted in the gay community, and begin to act the same. However, with all prejudices, they are only combated one person at a time.

  19. seems like there are 2 deans.

    anyway before Brixton has quite a few gay clubs and gay friendly bars if these were in barking and dagenham they would have been burnt down but don’t take my word for it. http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-75508.html

    gay people were always welcome in Brixton one thing jamaicans like is a rebel. I think since more black gay people became intergrated in the scene in the 70′s and 80′s the dirty little secret came out hence the state were in now. Even having this discussion is depressing I like most gay menhave struggled enough and this is one fight I can no longer be bothered to fight you can have the scene I’m done.

    yes some black people are homophobic that does not justify racism

  20. There are currently two gay radio stations in the UK, but there are no BME presenters on Gaydio bar two shows and no BME presenters of Gaydar Radio at all!

    So why don’t black gay men.women set up a station to meet their requirements/needs. The Asian community have managed to set up a number of legal radio stations why not follow in their footsteps instead of being the victims. to my knowledge there are no presenters on gaydar over 60 – in fact older gay people are discriminated against a great deal on the gay scene, it not just one group of people.

    Excuse me but to say ‘Whilst I say that, I am very much aware that the first thing people will judge me on is my skin colour’ is insulting. I of course would notice your black I would judge you on how your represented yourself, where do you get the idea from thats what everyone things?

    kev

  21. I agree the gay scene owes black people nothing that’s why there is a black pride. Can you imagine the cries of racism is we setup a radio station. there is now win with racisits it’s pathological

  22. So let me get this straight, if I put on my gaydar profile that I don’t want to meet black guys I need to justify it?

    Are you high? No I do not need to give you any reason whatsoever and neither does anybody who has any preference on their profile. I am not attracted to black guys at all in any way. Thats not racism on my behalf or anybody who says that they are not attracted to black,white,asian,whatever.

    You really believe that just because somebody writes down a preference thats its motavited by racial predujice? Closed minded pure an simple.

  23. Max, hot dammmmnnnnnnn. Oh, and the article’s pretty sharp as well.

  24. @Eon….Closed mindedness is the need to put such a statement on your profile to begin with. Whatever race you are. Isn’t it easier just screening your mail just as you would any other that you don’t like? Now there’s a pure and simple dimlo!

  25. Why would there be an outcry if there were to be a gay black radio station?

    I was interested to see that there is little sponsorship from black buisiness most of the backing is from unions charities and government agencies.

  26. @frij

    No because it my profile and I’m not interested in meeting black guys. I am not racist but I do not fibd black guys sexually attractive at all. Why should I not be entitled to inform people so they dont waste time messaging me and move along?

    Why is it that just because I dont find black guys attractive and state as much am I labled a racist? Dont like whats in the profile? Nobody forced you to read it.

    Saying that is no differnet to saying: No chubs/ No Twinks / No Fems. These sites do not give the options to highlight these type of preferences. They provide space for you to just that. And thats what people do.

  27. eon. your preference and how you express it is your business. my point is that I can go to a bar and get ignored by the bar staff or be turned away from a club or a be refered to as dingy or a partner refered to as a dinge queen that’s what is distasteful. and a few months ago the owner of a popular club posted some pretty rancid stuff about Muslims there was not tatchell inspired boycott if some club owner said no gay people can you imagine the outcry.

    Paul considering how many posters think there shouldn’t be a black pride I domt think a radio station would go unnoticed

  28. Dean I do not agree with that kind of behaviour one bit. I am unsure what a “dinge” is in relation to being a racist comment(I assume).

    My original point was only towards not being able to state personal preferences in the only way available on a hookup site without being thrown into the racist pen.

  29. ron. No fat twins fem black whatever is your choice it’s also prejudice anyone who can write off another human being off is pretty callous

  30. But these sites are desgined for hookups. Why it is wrong to write in the section provided to say what you are and are not looking for? If i see no white guys i just think “fine” not interested in me and move on.

    There is nothing wrong with stating you are not attracted to certain types of guys. Whatever that may be.

  31. I am a bleack lesbian and have been to and participated at London, Birmingham, Brighton and Manchester Prides. I haven’t encountered racism, however I think people are missing the whole point of what UK Black pride is all about. It a place for people whatever your race to come and meet like minded people. As an african woman it was a difficult journey for me to accept and come to terms with my sexuality with no visible black gay people around, black pride gives me that. I meet with lots of other black and asian gay people, i mingle and find people who i share a culture with, I get to listen to music that i love, eat food that i enjoy, there is no way all the main prides would have the kind of entertainment and artists we have at black pride on their stages. The vibe i get from black pride i could never get from any other pride. I am happy to meet other black people who face the same challenges that I do daily, i enjoy attending the workshops, things that I don’t get from all other prides. Why are people so bothered? How does one more pride to celebrate who we are affect you? And yet it helps us, and provides that support for other young gay black people to know that we are there. There is no segregation. I have seen all different races at black pride, celebrating.

  32. Unlike many making comments here, I went to Black Pride last Saturday, travelled from the Midlands despite the terrible weather forecast, and guess what the crowd as always was racially mixed. Many LGBT people who come under the umbrella of ‘Black’ have white partners and friends and indeed as several people have indicated everyone is welcome. The truth is many of those commenting here would never ever go to Black Pride, that would take them outside of their comfort zone, in the scheme of things if you , are white and especially male, then you are in the mainstream of the gay community. What most people don’t get, is the fact that many Black people constantly operate outside their comfort zone in the White mainstream LGBT and non-LGBT world… we live in a white society and of course this is an ever day experience… We are not complaining about that!
    I challenge those who argue that Black Pride is exclusive, to actually go in 2011 or at the very least visit the website and view the photographs and avoid buying into, what are essentially the product of socialisation in a society where racism is institutionalised and racist stereotypes abound. For those who argue that Black people are homophobic (although I contest the fact that Black people are any more racist than any other group in the population, I do concede that some fundamental Christians, like fundamental Jews, Muslims and any other religion do tend to be more homophobic than people in general). So as far as Black fundamentalist Christians and those who adhere to the Old Testament Sodom and Gomorrah malarkey are concerned, the levels of homophobia are likely to be higher. However, the latter being likely, who do you think faces the brunt of that homophobia, white people who often don’t live in black communities worldwide or gay Black people who may have less choice about where they live? Whose own families and neighbours reject and vilify them for their sexual orientation and gender? If you want to test this theory do go to any list of LGBT people that were murdered worldwide in 2009/2010 and see how many come under the Black umbrella! Get a grip those of you who are so filled with fear, and analyse what you are saying and why you begrudge and fear Black Pride! Substitute Gay with Black, in some comments offered here and back in the good old days of Homophobia reigning free, these would have been similar arguments offered by mainstream society about LGBT Rights! Would we be so quick to accept that those shouting out for equality should put up and shut up because they are creating a rift in society. No rights have ever been won by people putting up and shutting up…but the Pankhurtsts were upper class, they did not quite see that working class people hadn’t enough to eat, never mind the vote. The reality of living in a diverse society is that within each group there are subgroups. Now that many umbrella LGBT issues have been addressed (and I am not saying that we have a utopian society)the time has come to look at the sub-groups within the group! To address our diversity and any associated challenges is a strength, and should not be seen as a weakening the whole….besides those of you who know anything about the Gay Rights movement will already know that there is a very strong historical link between The Black Civil Rights Movement and the Gay Rights movement in America! Don’t forget the way the Stonewall story was rewritten from its reality that it occurred in a predominantly poor black and Latino community! That Black and Latinos were there at the beginning calling for collective rights and a end to harassment and homophobia!
    Finally, let me just say that mainstream London Pride and Pride celebrations all over the country are often a microcosm of hetero society, notably in the way they represent the majority or sadly those who organise them (when was the last time you were asked what you wanted from your local Pride celebration?). The latter point may well be an artefact of making the most of scarce resources but the evidence suggests that there are BIG problems around representation even where a majority group are concerned, Women for example! There are many unspoken truths about the LGBT community which need to be aired, discussed and addressed. Black Pride to which everyone is invited and welcomed, is hardly the controversial issue that it is made out to be here, there are far more pressing issues such as cronyism, public accountability, representation and the visible exclusion of trans, bi and women from the hierarchy of many LGBT organisations. Consider this factor for example…in July 2010 of the 13 committee members on London Pride board none are women! So London Pride can hardly claim to be the bastion of representation or inclusion. Indeed, the statistic is equally appalling for their Trustees, where of the 16 only 3 are women! Women make up 50% of the population…. You want more, why are most LGBT organisations (paid employment, not voluntary) more than 90% headed by gay men? Why should women accept this? Would gay men accept 90% of LGBT organisations being run by hetero men…come on people get real!
    Black Pride was great, I got wet in the rain, ate great food, and heard political speeches and poetry and performance (often contemporary Prides are high on booze but low on the PRIDE BIT! Have we forgotten what it is we are proud off?) danced and laughed with friends (we travelled from the Midlands 1 black woman (ME, and 3 white, my partner and 2 friends). The diversity of the LGBT community should be our strength not a beating stick for anyone group under the umbrella who just want to say hey guys we are not doing so well or the issues we have are a little different can we have a party too!
    I am active in my local LGBT community where I am often one of very few people of colour. I don’t go on about race and representation in that setting, I am concerned with the larger LGBT issues. However, when I go to Black Pride I go celebrate with other Black LGBT people, to remind myself I am not alone, to share in the ongoing struggle that many face (not just here in the UK but worldwide). I work to promote LGBT heritage, involvement in sport and culture and I find myself less interested in ‘Pride’ celebrations which focus on drinking and music, after all so many other festivals do that! If we are to debate Pride lets debate something important, rather than questioning that Black Pride exists, lets discuss what it is we are Proud of and why we continue to congregate!
    Peace out Sonya

  33. Ooops meant to say homophobic NOT ‘(although I contest the fact that Black people are any more racist than)’ …no Freudian slip…just you know when you have something to say and well the brain is going through its paces…the fingers can’t keep up!
    One final, final point…imagine a society in which the majority of people were LGBT and the minority Hetero, would it matter that some of that minority held homophobic views? Would we still have had a LGBT Rights movement? The truth is the majority on any scale do not need Rights Movements because they set and influence the agenda.
    In minority politics, LGBT, Disability, Race, Social Class, Gender and Sexual Orientation….it is the Minority bit that is significant!!!!!!!!! So while some Black people are racist they are a minority within a minority and as such the power they have to influence the super structure with their racist views are limited! When saying that I fully understand and appreciate that when an individual is beaten up or called names by another the aforementioned issue becomes a mute point…..But who do you suppose faces the brunt of the homophobia that exists within a Minority within that minority of homophobes in Black society…white people or their black neighbours, families and friends? That my friend’s hopefully in part explains the very need for Black Pride…it represents the only place that some Black people can be out and free.
    Somewhere out there in the very heart of Regents Park…where everyone knows that if you are there it is because you meant to be there…and so everyone keeps everyone else’s confidences. London Pride is quite another matter…..out and central and anyone can happen by and spot you!.
    The fact is the fruits from the Gay Civil Rights Movement have not been equally shared or experienced..sorry but the truth is White, Urban, Educated/professional, Middle-class Gay men who have no discernable disability have benefited the most, whereas the Non-White,Rural and some deprived Urban dwellers, Trans, Bi, Women, People with Disabilities from Poor Working Class Backgrounds have not done so well…..We need to discuss this before we celebrate X Sonya

  34. our arrival at the door of equality…some are decades behind others! Enough said….I know I know! X

  35. Who is he? How much money do they want?
    I don’t care what you say you are all racist I don’t care what you say you are all racist.

    I don’t care what he says.

    How much money do they want this time?
    Prejudice and racism he doesn’t understand either of them.

    How much money does he want?
    Who does he want the money off of? White people? why?

    He is of mixed race as black people say it is a nobody
    he’s not black and is not white he is what black people call a Joey nomad.

    Asians are not black people..

    What Asians does he mean? Chinese? Indians?
    Pakistanis? None of these people like black people they cannot live together.

    How is he going to get money this time?

  36. James said
    “Oh, and I actually paid to go to Black Pride last week and I’ll never go back, I wasn’t made to feel welcome at all, infact quite the opposite (“WTF is he doing here?” seemed a common phrase most black men said when I wondered around) which was very disappointing, people in glasshouses Kevin…”

    I can only assume this is a total lie. I went to black pride (I am white) and found everyone there nothing but friendly, awesome and fun. Was one of the better prides compared to the dismal main one in london this year. Hmm if people were making snide comments I could probably guess it would just be the usual gay bitchy remarks towards fugly/fat/elderly/creepy looking men who don’t belong with the beautiful people. Oh thats a bit fascist of me now isn’t it.. but when your fascism is so thinly veiled it’s pretty justified.

  37. John in Calif. 21 Aug 2010, 6:52am

    Well, Kevin, reading your article has only confirmed what I have suspected for a long time:

    As far as racism is concerned, it is pretty the same wherever you go in the West. Minorities are chided for being homophobic, even though they are specifically excluded and made to feel inadequate at every turn.

    Having experienced the ugliness of the post Prop. 8 protests in California first hand, where innocent people were spat upon and told to “go back to Africa” on account of a single exit poll, I would say racial animus is very much alive and well within the gay community. Blacks make up only 6% of the state’s population (40 million). Which means millions upon millions of white people voted for the marriage ban. And yet, from San Francisco to Los Angeles, the protesters believe it is somehow all the blacks’ fault? To say nothing of the historical irony of telling Africans to leave America when their ancestors were brought here against their will. If these folks weren’t against same-sex marriage before the protests, they probably are now.

  38. Sister Mary Clarance 21 Aug 2010, 9:47am

    Ohhh, I love the gaydar debate ….

    Let’s start with the phrase ‘Caucasian only’

    I lifted the following from a profile – “i am looking for masculine, caucasian guys who are height/weight proportionate and under 40ish.”

    Who can tell me exactly what exactly this guy is looking for?

    If for example I’m fresh off the plane from southern India, am I in or am I out?

    Technically my racial origin is likely to be Caucasian, but …. I’m guessing he’s probably not really looking for me.

    Similarly, if I were a member of the Arabid subrace, hailing from, lets say …. Egypt, still Caucasian through and through, but the right sort of Caucasian for the gentleman above?

    Lets move east then, the the former Soviet Socialist Republics, who of us is clear as we trek through Kazakhstan at which point we tip over from Caucasian to Mongol. To be fair there has been quite lot of breeding amongst the two in the area over the last few thousand years, so should we be safe and rule the lot out or maybe maybe crack their heads open and identify the skull structure just to be absolutely clear.

    Perhaps matey above is actually just looking to meet those of Aryan origin … of course if it is just the Aryan subrace that would be far clearer …. of would it?

    Moving on to black. Firstly, are we talking black black or are we talking non-white black?

    It always confused me here, if my mother’s grandmother as Aborigine but married into Caucasian heritage, am I still considered black despite my fair skin and hair, or as it was a good while ago can I claim to be white?

    On that subject is there a skin tone test? I’ve got a friend from Greece who’s been out in the sun a bit too long and gone awfully dark. In or out?

    Then of course we’ve got Brazil – I don’t know what we’d class most of them as, and frankly neither do a lot of them. So skin test, crack open the skull, something else?

    Or, and we just talking black as in Afro and flat nose then?

    Or do some mean one thing, and some mean another?

    How do we know?

    Are we supposed to ask, giving a brief run through of our heritage?

    Wouldn’t it maybe be simpler if he just looked at my photos and decided whether he like me of not?

  39. Sister Mary Clarance 21 Aug 2010, 9:51am

    oops ‘he like me of not?’ probably should have read ‘he likes me or not?’

  40. smc. who cares what some prejudiced man wants. I’m glad they expose themselves so you know where you stand.   We have to accept the golden age of the gay scene is over aids took most of the founders and leaders and those who took over were probally the less interesting ones.  like that bloke from xxl who posted some anti Muslim thing.      I swear the gay scene has been infiltrated by homophobes to turn it into a hate filled mean spirited group of men with no morals who
    would leave a “friend” to die after oding on ghb.  Pink news should do an article on drugs too.   

  41. Mihangel apYrs 21 Aug 2010, 10:24am

    SMC
    white would be anyone of western European long ancestry including the western Russias, but certainly not iincluding those nasty Roma or some dodgy breeds from the Balkan area (Turkish blood you see). And of course some parts of Spain are iffy, ‘cos of the Moorish influence.

    Everybody else is black, even the palest, and so are obviously a little less human than us whiteys.

    Quite simple you see, if you’re a bigot

    which I hope I’m not

  42. Sister Mary Clarance 21 Aug 2010, 10:36am

    Frankly dean I don’t care too much, best to find out beforehand what they are, rather than be standing their buff naked all ready for action only to discover they have views incompatible with mine.

    However I remember my first few timid steps onto the gay scene … well timid-ish anyway. I wasn’t confident and I wasn’t comfortable as I entered an environment when I was very obviously judged on appearance, what was in my trousers and how good I had been/would be in bed.

    It was pre-gaydar, but I can imagine it would have been a knock to my fragile confidence had I been trawling though hot boys on gaydar only to discover I was unsuitable, not because I wasn’t cute enough, I wasn’t fit enough, I wasn’t interesting or funny enough, I wasn’t intelligent enough, I wasn’t anything enough except I wasn’t white enough.

    It takes a second to check out someone’s photo and please don’t tell me these people get so many messages a few extra from black/white/asian people they don’t find attractive would make any odds.

  43. I read this article in a magazine called disability now.

    Right to Pride denied

    After years of participating in London’s annual celebration of gay culture, Ju Gosling feels less proud of attitudes to disabled people at this year’s event

    I “came out” in June 1997, after the end of a relationship that had lasted longer than it might have done because my partner was also my carer. Shortly afterwards I went to London Pride, where I was relieved to feel welcome and part of the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Trans (LGBT) community. I was proud to be gay.

    I later discovered that Regard, the national LGBT disabled people’s organisation, had been working with Pride since the early 1990s to make the march a blueprint for accessibility.

    There was Blue Badge parking at the end of the march route and a shuttle bus that collected disabled marchers from there and the main stations and delivered us to the start.

    There was a “safe space” at the front of the march, with manual wheelchairs and pushers for those who couldn’t walk the whole route. There were also access stewards trained by Regard, sign language interpreters, and other features that made Pride truly inclusive.

    After that, Pride became – as it is for so many people – the place where I not only met old friends and made new ones but demon strated publicly my pride in being gay.

    Of course I joined Regard, and in due course became a co-chair.

    In the noughties, though, everything changed. Suddenly Pride had new organisers who didn’t want to take our calls. The access sub-committee was disbanded and some of the most critical access arrangements were cancelled, including the parking and the provision of wheelchairs.

    By 2007, when London hosted EuroPride, so few Regard members could access the event that we had to pull out altogether.

    In 2008 and 2009 we fought back, supported by the late great David Morris, then disability adviser to the Mayor of London.

    But despite us repeatedly contacting Pride’s funders and sponsors – the Greater London Authority, the TUC, Unison – and Westminster Council, no one seemed to take us seriously. How can people who are asexual and genderless be LGB or Trans?

    Unsurprisingly, the promises forced out of the Pride organisers to reinstate the access arrangements in full proved to be false. In 2010, access was still so poor that Regard had to pull out again. Instead of being at the event, I spent the afternoon working in uniform for Graeae, the disabled people’s theatre company, who refused me permission to wear a rainbow Pride scarf.

    Like many other queer crips, on 3 July I simply felt isolated, excluded and miserable. It’s hard to feel proud of being part of a community that doesn’t want you as a member.

    Yeah that’s something to be proud of.

  44. Well done Kevin for the article. Debate is indeed healthy and judging by the number of comments people needed to get stuff out there. The anger, shame, fear is all out here. We can intellectualise our racial and sexual dynamics all day long and the core of the matter is that a lot of us need to keep practising tolerance people.

  45. The only direct and violent homophobia I have experienced in my life (as a gay white man) has been at the hands (fists) of black men. I know that I am not alone in this. Perhaps the reason why certain gay white men feel the need to exclude themselves from contact with black men on sites like gaydar is because of the near psychotic homophobia they have experienced from that racial group. It isn’t about lazy/irrational prejudice; rather it is from hard-nosed personal experience. I had zero prejudice against black people until I was attached by them. Now I avoid black people as much as I can. For me it’s about personal safety.

  46. Edward. Jody Dubroski & Gerry Edwards were killed by White men and Chris Bevan was seriously injured so bollocks to that argument

  47. A few people have made the point that, since there is racism within the black LGBT community as well as the white LGBT community (if I can artificially make that division), the article was somehow wrong for discussing the matter.

    But clearly the amount of racism that black LGBT people suffer is proportionally much larger than the amount of racism suffered by white LGBT people. As such, there is a legitimate reason to concentrate on the racism or exclusionary behaviour of some white LGBT people.

  48. Well I am glad that UK Black Pride has generated debate, even if it attracts the most ignorant responses, thus demonstrating the whole purpose of creating UK Black Pride, one of the reasons was to raise awareness about BME issues in the communities as well as the LGBT community. Was to give back to the LGBT community and not take away or separate as some fearful people maybe me lead to believe. To show case talent that never would get an opportunity on main prides stages. To empower young black LGBT people were LGBT services fail to meet their needs as well as show them and put them in touch with positive peer role models who are OUT and Proud from within the Black LGBT. To put LGBT service in touch with a minority group which they admit are hard to access. To bring people together in unity to challenge inequalities and say no to homophobia and racism whether it is in the Straight LGBT , Black or White communities. I have been to all main prides and have watched from the side lines as Black LGBT people have a near invisible existence on the margins. You tell me if an urban tent in a park is inclusivity ? or no tent or stage at all ! I have been to prides and have not felt welcomed and have listened to other Black LGBT people express the same. We have tried to influence Pride Boards to take on this issue of real inclusivity and they still do not get it. So what do we do sit back and complain we are victims of other peoples faliures to be inclusive !NO we become proactive ( I guess this is what some are readers are objecting to)and do what other Prides fail to do and open the doors to all LGBT people to experience what UK Black Pride advocates something you may not experience at other Prides. UK Black Pride is an additional pride event to be added to UK Pride calenders and the UK LGBT community should be proud to support this Pride as they do others, as a pride that shows cases the UK Cultural and Ethnic diversity. The UK LGBT community should celebrate it’s success as the largest event of it’s kind in Europe ! I guess what really gets peoples goats is the word BLACK ! and I have heard some really eye opening responses. Well for the record there is a White Pride it happens on the same day as UK Black Pride although UK Black Pride had started way before this even was started. This happens in Stoke and is organised by the BNP and is known as the Red White and Blue event maybe this is the white pride that some of you wish to see and support, but as you know LGBT people are not welcomed. Let me set the record straight as one of the Co Founders of UK Black Pride and one who has actively thought for LGBT rights, some of which you benifit from: UK Black Pride does not receive tax payers monies, our community supports it by paying an entrance fee. I am a tax payer and I am sure my taxes help fund London and Brighton Pride as I am sure they receive public funding from either the GLA or Borough Council. We are a non profit organisation- Pride is about politics, empowerment not just a song and a dance in the park if your lucky or he streets. Our board is inclusive of all ethnicity and genders. We are an inclusive Pride pictures speak for it’s self. Racism is not just about being called names it’s about the distribution of power that creates in equalities for people who are Non whit. Black is not about a colour it’s about an experience. If you have faced Homophobia you have had a Black experience, if you have experienced Racism you have had a Black Experience, If you have experienced any negative experience because you are seen as different you have had a Black experience ! get it ! We claim back Black positively in the same way LGBT have claimed back Queer, Queen, Gay Dyke all of which have been used to negatively by straight people ! So lets break it down UK Black Pride ~ Proud of our Black experiences and putting up a resistance to all forms inequalities and hatred.

    Khi ~ Co Founder of Uk Black Pride

  49. Nicely put Khi. there is nothing stopping us setting up bar clubs radio stations and ignoring those who complain when we do. They also complain when we ask for representation at mainstream events saying it’s positive discrimination or reverse racism forgetting that racism is based on the idea of racial superiority. maybe we should stop calling them racist and use the phrase White supremicists for clarity.

  50. Sister Mary Clarance 21 Aug 2010, 12:53pm

    “Perhaps the reason why certain gay white men feel the need to exclude themselves from contact with black men on sites like gaydar is because of the near psychotic homophobia they have experienced from that racial group.”

    So Edward are we to assume that you (other these other nameless people) consider ‘near psychotic homophobia’ a personality trait of ALL black people?

  51. smc there is only one thing worse than someone say they don’t want blacks etc. it the ones who say the do and turn out to be racists who fetishise black men they are usually full of prejudice an expect you to behave in a certain way. they are usually attracted to the negative aspects of the stereotype. I’d run a mile from that lot.

  52. The author states on his web site that he is a catholic. That means he is either a self-hater, for believing in what that evil church teaches, that gay sex is unnatural and immoral; or a hypocrite for staying in a church that teaches that. Either way he is not someone I have a lot of respect for; but that is nothing to do woth th etrivia of his skin colour.

  53. Lady tanya 22 Aug 2010, 2:12am

    WHY do we as the gay Family need so many different prides. Next it will be white pride Asian pride welsh pride Scottish pride, New York pride new jersey, Florida pride and so on , till the homophobs win
    We are all the same GAY that is the thing we have in common
    WE ARE ALL THE SAME WE ARE GAY THAT IS THE THING WE HAVE IN COMMON
    we should just party all together. all of us gay lesbian trans bi qu&i we are all in same boat
    with all of us at the same pride it would be so big, so fabulous and so so colourful
    if we start having separate prides then the hmophobs have won,,, is that want you all want, no I do not think so, well I hope so.
    Come on all us gays lesbians bi trans qu In we so need to stay as one big family
    love to all
    Lady Tanya

  54. Sister Mary Clarance 22 Aug 2010, 8:58am

    Yes, you may be right Lady Tanya. Let’s scrub off Brighton Pride, Manchester Pride, and Soho Pride next year, and all those other little ‘also ran’ Prides. If they’re too mean to come to London, or can’t be bothered then sod ‘em.

    As for Soho Pride, its just an opportunity for all those central bars and clubs to screw a few quid more out of the drunk and drug addicted. Most of them need therapy, not Pride anyway.

    As you say we have got the same thing in common, so with that in mind, next year we need to scrap all those different floats for all sorts of organisations – its divisive. Yes, by all means floats, but they need to be more generic ‘gay’ floats – you just get on the first one with any space on and wave your flag, but it will need to be a generic ‘gay’ flag, can’t be having any of this separatist rubbish any more.

    We are all gay after all, I don’t think we need to split it any more that that. It will just dilute if we do (clearly).

    Blimey, forgot all about trans ….hang on, lets just call them gay too, as you mentioned we’re all in the same boat. Stuff it, they’re gay now as well and that’s an end to it.

    Simple!

    On the other hand we could all perhaps have a little bit more respect for the diversity in our community and stop trying to simplify things to suit our own purposes.

  55. we have to grow up and accept that gay people are as prejudiced and bigoted as anyone else and organisations like stonewall and outrage are complicit. they sat back and did nothing to challenge this supremicist behaviour while going for soft targets that wouldn’t alienate their donors.

    I imagine if the germans won the war the world would be like one big gay scene what a thought.

  56. What have you set up, or done Dean to rectify the deficiencies/complicit that you feel Stonewall and Outrage have done nothing about?

    Much like homophobia, gay people do far too little to address the situation we sit there and look the other way or take the belief some other group or person is dealing with that. If you feel that strongly do you think UK Black pride should accept monies from Stonewall?

    By the way how many paid workers work for UK Black pride and where does the money come from to fund these post?

    ben

  57. As far as Black Pride goes, I’m all for it as a concept and see no reason why there shouldn’t be one in theory. The only thing I would pick at, if I had to, would be the fact that you would be segregating yourself further. I always saw Pride as an event which celebrates diversity and freedom, and it kind of seems like a contradiction in terms to say ‘well I can’t feel proud amongst white people’. Of course racism goes on in every walk of life, and we can go backwards and forwards as to who started what, but I find it odd that we’ve now had to split an event which is famous for it’s sexual/cultural diversity in to further sub-divisions. A large portion of the white gay community go out simply to socialize and meet new people, and to infer that the big bad white people have drawn yet another line in the sand is unfounded.
    Also, as far as your comment about being the only black person in a room of 20 people and only being noticed by your skin colour, I would say ‘chip on shoulder’. I, personally, would notice the person first. Again, I appreciate that there is considerable racism in the LGBT community, but to feel the need to drag yourself to a dark corner in the community is a shame. Also, if you claim to dislike being judged on skin colour, then why make an event which is all about sexuality, about colour? It makes little sense to me.
    As somebody pointed out in an earlier post, if we were to enforce the barrier also and rename Brighton Pride ‘White-on Pride’ then the controversy generated from that would be unthinkable!
    Again, I have seen racism go on between black and white people, and I think most of us have, but there comes a point when you have to enforcing the divide. Black people; white people; gay people; straight people. Throw away the denominations, and the operative word there is ‘people’.

  58. Sister Mary Clarance – although your sarcasm is quite humorous, you’re missing the point. Most of us at Pride are LGBT, with a few exceptions. I believe the point that was trying to be made was to eliminate separatism based on skin colour at an event to do with sexuality and pride. And I agree with that. In a crowd of thousands, you’re telling me that skin colour matters? Maybe to one or two bigots, but in all walks of life people will discriminate. I will get discriminated against because of my regional accent; so-and-so down the road will get bitched at in the workplace for her hair colour. But we don’t get together and start a ‘Red-Head’s Office Day’, or a ‘Day At Work Only For Those Who Speak In A Northern Accent.’ I’m being slightly facecious, but my point remains the same. The majority of Black and Asian people I know quite well have attended the ‘mainstream’ Pride events with me for 3 years running. Maybe by enforcing such a divide, based solely on skin colour (?!) then you’re perhaps creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. An 18-year-old black boy, new to the scene and his own sexuality, is browsing Pride events. He sees Black Pride. Now does he truly want to go there because of his skin colour, or would he rather hang out with his other mates and celebrate diversity at a much more inclusive event?

  59. inclusive event eh?
    read my post 43
    Like many other queer crips, on 3 July I simply felt isolated, excluded and miserable. It’s hard to feel proud of being part of a community that doesn’t want you as a member.

    kevin or ben this iswhat I’m doing and do your own research

  60. it’s not just black people who experience discriminated disabled people have a similar experience

  61. Dean – So are you saying that black people have a bigger right to be more exclusively gay than any other racial group because you feel miserable? Do not blame a crowd of thousands for your self-inflicted feelings. Pride is an event where you go to have fun, and if you’ve already decided that because of your skin colour you’re going to feel awkward, then that is your problem. I’m sorry that you felt uncomfortable, but to become prejudiced yourself and tarnish a whole community with that… it’s immature, and quite frankly, you’re own insecurity. To say a whole community doesn’t want you is very discriminatory. Like it or not, and it may come as a shock, but not all the big bad whites hate you.

  62. As Catherine Tate might say: “Oh boo-hoo-hoo!”
    Life is sh|t, and then you die. Some of us take a bit more, others a bit less, but whinging on about not getting picked up on Gaydar is PATHETIC. Ethnicity is something that really should be ignored in real terms, everyone should be based on their own merits, however, when it comes to personal sexual preference, that is a totally subjective matter. If I were to put “No girls please”, are all the females going to start accusing me of sexism? It’s not that I don’t like girls, I just have no wish to hop into bed with them.

    A mate of mine seems to be something of a GAM magnet, and little Orientals constantly hound him, however, he prefers white guys, and has had to state so on his profile. However, he still gets continually bothered because these idiots never want to read the small print, and everyone else calls him a racist. You just can’t win.

    So your black, and not everyone fancies you?
    I am greying and old. I get a similar problem.
    Welcome to the real world..

  63. Ben : In response to your question there are no paid workers and all volunteer their time. Appears another reader may have a chip on their shoulder, because people who are non white have organised a Pride event, which celebrates cultural and ethnic diversity, in our LGBT Community. Do you really object to the word Black ! what does Black mean for you ? Does Brighton,London or any of the other regional Prides seperate itself from all the other Prides ? if they don’t, then why are they named after regions. Looking at the Pride parades this year how many visable non – white people did you see? may be a handful! is this representaive of the so called inclusive LGBT community. There is a differance between assmiliation and intergration and UK Black Pride has intergrated into the main stream National Pride events. They only objection that I am hearing is the use of the work Black. Well many who have been attending UK Black Pride for the past 5 years support and identify with it’s meaning and purpose. So long as there is a need for UK Black Pride, then 35 or so negative comments do not really matter. What matters is that Black LGBT people have the opportunity to represent themselves as themselves to the wider communities, engage in the challange and resistance against homophobia and have the opportunity to dispell sterotypes and organise an event for all to attend. Black LGBT people will not be pigeon hold into what LGBT should look like or what is accepted by the LGBT community. It is called choice and many of the main Pride organisers choose not to listen to the voices of Black LGBT represnation. So we choose to organise where others failed to make that represenation.

  64. ‘Pride’ events are about sexuality, not ethnicity. This ‘Pride’ event is taking the focus off homophobia and putting it onto racism. That is wrong. Very wrong. ‘Pride’ events are about LGBT coming together inclusively, celebrating and campainging for LGBT equality. I do not think ‘Black Pride’ is a racist event as some have suggested, I think it is a black supremacist event, just like a ‘White Pride’ would be a white supremacist event. The event will create racism rather than heal it. Perhaps that is what the organisers want? To separate themselves.

    After reading Khi’s first post above, and the Black Pride website, it is clear the organisers have issues with white people, being the only ethnicity excluded from the list that Black Pride wishes to promote unity of….”all Black people of African, Asian, Caribbean, Middle Eastern and Latin American descent”.

    Malcom X once said, “We have this in common: We have a common oppressor, a common exploiter, and a common discriminator. But once we all realise that we have this common enemy, then we unite on the basis of what we have in common. And what we have foremost in common is that enemy —— the white man. He’s an enemy to all of us.”

    As the ‘white man’ is the only ethnicity to be excluded from the list that this event is celebrating, and the ‘white man’ is the one being charged with racism and isolating the black LGBT, I think the founders and organisers of Black Pride share X’s sentiment.

    Incidentally Manchester Pride’s headline acts are Kellis and Beverly Knight, two black stars. So the idea that black people are somehow invisible at gay pride events is absurd. They are on the main stage!

    I think the organisers may be stuck in a timewarp somewhere and not witnessed that the USA now has a black president, that Nelson Mandella has been freed, that the white man has been thrown out of Zimbabwe, that some of the most important musicians, film stars and artists are black, that there are black politicians, black Lords and Ladies, black sports stars………..

  65. Lol Spanner. Being old and grey is just like being an ethnic minority. Slavery et al, we share solo much in common because wait for it einstein-black people can’t get old…or grey!!!! Like you…..?

  66. Khi, you ask,…..”Does Brighton,London or any of the other regional Prides seperate itself from all the other Prides ? if they don’t, then why are they named after regions.”

    Because there are people from Manchester who cannot get to London, it’s as simple as that. People from Manchester didn’t set up Manchester pride because they felt like they were on the sidelines at London pride, which is the main reason you give to starting Black Pride. They are not a seperate pride event because they focus on a group within the LGBT community, they are a seperate event because LGBT in that area can come togther. They are not for black LGBT, Jewish LGBT, disabled LGBT, or any other LGBT group, they are for ALL LGBT inclusively. There is no list as to who the event is for other than LGBT.

  67. Sister Mary Clarance 22 Aug 2010, 6:41pm

    Okay Jones I will put aside the sarcasm (begrudgingly) for a moment to respond to your posting because it raises some interesting points (I can’t guarantee the sarcasm won’t have crept back in before I’ve finished though – can’t help myself sometimes, its more addictive tan crack).

    Firstly I think it is important to define what Pride is all about. To me it should be an event where gay people can come together and be open about who we and show other people that although we are a minority group, it is not something that needs to be hidden or not something we should be ashamed of. It is an opportunity to mixed with like minded people. It also provides an opportunity to get information and support.

    Black Pride is an extension of that. It is not meant to diminish the main Pride event(s), but it is adds to an already long list of Pride celebrations across the country. No one bats an eyelid at Brighton Pride, Blackpool Pride, Manchester Pride, Birmingham Pride, or any of the other regional events, which separate by geography. No one accuses the organisers of being separatists. Technically all those Northerners could come down South for the day rather than having their own Pride. I know there is a bit of a north/south divide thing going on but one of my neighbours is northern. I’ve spoken to him several times. I’ve never understood a damn word he’s said back, but you know, he seems nice enough.

    I also take your point about an enforced divide, and its good that you and your black/Asian friends have been able to enjoy a Pride event together as a group. There are a few issues with that though.

    Firstly I would say from my own experiences that racial equality is permeating every corner of this country without a doubt. However it has flowed out from the centre, from the major urban areas, and is still flowing. I can still list a few places where a good deal more needs to flow. I know when I’ve been out of the comfort and safety of London, I’ve stood having a drink with my mates in a club listening to Desperate Dan in a frock cracking a few jokes and murdering hits of the 80s, only to be struck by the creeping realisation that although he/she may look like Desperate Dan, he/she is in fact Alf Garnet, Bernard Manning and Nick Griffin all rolled into one. What made it worse was that every one of his foul racist little jokes had the audience in stitches. I actually felt embarrassed for the mates I was with more than anything, who were clearly mortified, but would I feel at some sharing a day of Pride with the town after that – I think not. It emphasised my complacency though in thinking that everyone saw past the colour of my skin.

    Also I think there are cultural difference that its sometimes harder for people aren’t BME to fully appreciate. Black Pride provides an opportunity to speak to people who are probably experiencing many of the same cultural issues, rather than having to seek out kindred spirits at a more mixed event. London is a fairly mixed affair, but Pride in others areas often is not. You interpret Black Pride as a divide on skin colour, but racial heritage actually goes a bit deeper than that.

    As for the 18 year old black boy, its hard to say mate, would depend where he is and who he is with. London, then probably go to the main Pride first and find his feet a little bit, a few other places I’d advise him to maybe try to cushion himself with a few good mates before going to a few of the regional ones. If he can’t do that, I’d say Black Pride.

  68. Khi. don’t waste your time this is where they’re comming from.

    http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t734015/

  69. Sister Mary Clarance 22 Aug 2010, 7:23pm

    “I am greying and old. I get a similar problem.”

    Actually Spanner, I’m just guessing here, but it may of course have nothing to do with the fact you’re graying and old.

  70. Sister Mary Clarance 22 Aug 2010, 7:42pm

    Aaron:

    “They are not a seperate pride event because they focus on a group within the LGBT community”

    Read that back mate, of course you are focusing on a group within the LGBT community, you’re just happy to overlook if because its geographical. That’s okay though because you’re happy with it and are therefore prepared to overlook it and pretend it doesn’t exist.

    Think of all the extra resources organisations have to expend being at your provincial little Pride and a hundred others when they could set up shop in London and service everybody. This of all the extra money it costs sponsors because a few northerners can’t be asked to get on a train, or if you want it on the cheap the coach is about 80 pence these days.

    Its not like anyone from outside the area can even join in is it, you can’t get a bloody hotel for love nor money in the area when you have your little event. At least if you were to come to us there’s accommodation down here.

    I think you need to get your own house in order before you start slagging off Black Pride luvvie. Self, self, self.

  71. Sorry Sister Mary Clarence, I was not actually talking to you, and have no wishes to have a conversation with you. But, as I have noticed you attacking other people’s opinions here, and in the past, I will retort. You seem to think you have the upper moral stance on anything that is discussed on this website, as if you are obviously always right. You are quite the bully, aren’t you.

    In response to what I could understand from your comment, I do go to London Pride and always did when I lived in London, as all my friends from Manchester do, black and white. And I have friends from London who come to Manchester Pride, black and white, some stay at mine, others never have a problem finding a hotel. Although I must say that your point about hotels is quite trivial and, well stupid. Regional prides as I have said do not focus on a group within the LGBT community. I do not consider northerners to be a group that feels as if it is on the sidelines of London pride, I know that Manchester Pride is not set up to celebrate northern LGBT people as if they are different to southern LGBT people. However, Black Pride is set up to celebrate black LGBT, as if they are different to white LGBT people. That is my main point. I think perhaps my point that Black Pride is a black supremacists event has hit a nerve for you as it has revealed something about the psyche of those who have founded and organise this event.

    Apart from that, I think your ranting on other people’s opinions is incoherent, I’m not quite sure why you are telling me I can get a coach for 80 pence? Very strange, I just presume you have been drinking? Especially the accusations that I am selfish? Oh dear ‘luvvie’, I think you should step back and take at look at yourself before you start attacking anyone who doesn’t agree with you.

  72. The greatest reward and benifits from this article and thread is that more and more of our White LGBT brohers and sister , aunties and uncles, grans and grandads now understand the importance of UK Black Pride and have expressed their continuous support and we look forward to celebrating UK Black Pride with them next year. Thank You Thank You ……. !

  73. Sister Mary Clarance 22 Aug 2010, 9:28pm

    Jay if I could first make a point that posting in an open comments forum on a news site does not equate to a private conversation, so you post, people reply – comments geddit?

    I’ve already made my point earlier that I think that Black Pride adds to, rather than diminishes from, the host of Prides around the country, but if other people cannot show the good grace to accept a diversity of Prides then why should I?

    There seem to be double standards at work here, that is what has hit a nerve.

    “Gay Pride is a political event for LGBT to try and gain equality from the heterosexual community isn’t it?”

    Have you really been to London Pride or Soho Pride …. ever?

    Political? And you presume I’ve been drinking. If you were there, you must have been on the Hooch float.

    So the organisers of Black Pride were organising an event to offer support to members of the black community in dealing with some of the cultural issues that face gay members of the BME community and you went long … wait … let me get this right …. “I also thought the event was a good idea because I am attracted to black men, so I would have gone just for that”.

    Let me paraphrase, “because you were after a bit of black”.

    I don’t know why I’m even showing you the courtesy of a response. You didn’t get a shag, so now you’re running the whole event into the ground.

    Had to laugh at the comment you made, “Your article sounds like a big sob story to me.”

    Pot? Kettle?

  74. I’m hoping if some naive person see these posts s/he will realise some people will fcuk you but will never make love with you and some may even try to f up your life.

  75. Sister Mary Clarence – we all face cultural issues. Everyone, regardless of skin colour, has culture! We are all shaped by society. To imply that Black Pride is the only event to deal explicitly and effectively with culture on a whole is unfounded. As somebody said in a recent post, two of the headlining acts at Manchester Pride are black. I have attended Norwich, London, Doncaster and Brighton Pride this year and I have seen so many people of all races from all around the world, and we are celebrating the LGBT culture as a whole.
    And in an earlier comment you made to somebody about lacking the good grace to accept the diversity of pride events, I would say that we are less lacking and much more bemused that you feel the need to sub-divide yourself further.
    In terms of cultural issues that many non BME people find it hard to appreciate, I say lol! Again, we all face challenges, and we all face discrimination. By virtue of your logic, we will have to sub-divide further now. Expect articles on ‘I’m 20st Pride’, ‘Cherry Lucozade Pride’, ‘Council Estate Pride’, ‘Chip Van Owner Pride’… etc etc etc. We all face problems! But most of us have the capacity to move past that and celebrate our sexuality at a sexuality-themed event. To make it predominantly about race – and however you dress it up, look at the name Black Pride and you’re immediately putting race before sexuality – whiffs of supremacism.

  76. I find it most frustrating that men who do experience racism in the gay community seldom come out and talk openly about this.
    To those who cannot understand Black Pride.. let me say that most people will apply ” if i didn’t see it or if i did not experience it then it doesn’t exist until there is proof”. As a mixed race gay man, I have experience racism from other white gay men. I don’t believe the whole the community is racist and there are plenty of non racist gay men out there.. But sadly in London and other parts of this country, there are many who are still backwards and will convince them selves that its a matter of preference……… like hell it is.

    Its such a shame that this happens and as I have grown up it has become worse and now i am sickened by the constant denial that this is but a myth or something that isn’t to be taken seriously.
    Shame on those who think this way.

    disgusting..

  77. FFS – black pride is about black pride and not as a supremacist position, many people have different ideas of what they want and it doesn’t make anyone a supremacist! there’s always different festivals for people
    plus I don’t agree that specifying types on profiles is always racist as some people may only do it to save time and people’s feelings,

  78. Kevin’s article has made me think. I still think that a white only pride would be seen as rascist as indeed it would be. My point on the previous article was meant to imply that we don’t need seperate Prides as we are all Gay. However, if he feels that white gays don’t want to mix, thats very sad. I know a lot of Gay men and women who are black and are visible at Pride in Birmingham for example!(Its a London thing, no doubt!)

  79. Ryan Haynes - fyi radio 23 Aug 2010, 1:47pm

    We did a discussion on Sexual Racism for FYi RADIO check it out http://www.fyiradio.podomatic.com

  80. Sister Mary Clarance 23 Aug 2010, 2:20pm

    “To make it predominantly about race – and however you dress it up, look at the name Black Pride and you’re immediately putting race before sexuality – whiffs of supremacism. ”

    Jones surely the ‘black’ thing is a race thing and the ‘pride’ thing a gay think, and therefore both are being placed equally.

  81. It does seem that rather a few of you seem to mistake preference for racism. That’s not the case.
    Also, a person has the right to express as taste in most things without being accused of something which they’re very evidently not.
    I personally do not find oriental men appealing in the slightest, however that does not make me a racist and I take personal offence to that.

    Just because you’re black, or of Oriental origins or Pink with bloody blue stripes does not mean that everyone who is different from you has it in for you.

    Perhaps, as a white gay man I have no knowledge and experience of how prejudiced the gay world is to non-white gay men and women but then it is really patronising to me to assume that.

  82. john sharp 23 Aug 2010, 2:35pm

    for me we are all gay lesbian bi trans
    no difference!
    but i agree may of us for the minority will discriminate.
    it is a fact ,
    so lets not be inter homophobic
    we have all our own ways
    but the fact is we all love cock !for gays bi trans
    and ladies you know what you like

  83. Sister Mary Clarance – so you can attend both a regional and a race-related pride, and it still remains solely about sexuality? Somewhere in the middle there you kind of loose the point – that at Pride you celebrate with a diverse collection of people and enjoy yourself. No where does colour come in to that equation. To recycle my older point, does an 18 black boy or girl attend Black Pride because they feel obliged to out of skin colour or because they want to be surrounded by thousands of other black people? Like it or not, I think the majority answer would be the former. And that is wrong. Pride is not obligatory; it is not race-oriented, and the regional divide is merely out of geographical convenience.
    And it’s a point that keeps getting hinted at but I feel the need to say it again, if I was to place ‘white’ and ‘pride’ equally (by your logic, ridding myself of supremacism)then that would be acceptable? It almost sounds as if you’re suggesting that I have a White Pride for white people and white culture, you have a Black Pride for black people and black culture, and the regional ones… well, who cares?! Just meet in the middle if you can’t be arsed to fall on one side of the divide?
    Somehow, I think a White Pride would lead the newspapers to brand us racist, and rightly so! The point is, I face cultural problems and discrimination, yet I have only the regional pride events to attend and I seem to do just fine. I think you need to step out, drop your own prejudices about how horrendously you believe you will be judged and neglected by everyone in that crowd, and have fun.

  84. black pride isn’t racist and now is pride, it’s no different to the awards shows like kerrang and mtv etc

  85. Alex Kraft 23 Aug 2010, 6:34pm

    White gay man who likes Asian/Oriental men = Rice Queen

    Asians who like White men only = Potato Queen

    Asian loving other Asians = Sticky Rice

    White men who like Hispanic men = Bean Queen

    Black men who like White Men = Dairy Queen

    White men who like Black men = Chocolate Queen

    Are these tags necessary? Really?!

    Wait this is the best.
    White men who like other white men = Normal loving relationship, with no “tag” associated as its “normal,” (for want of a better word) right?

    Mmmm, seems there is racism…and it goes both ways.
    x Alex

  86. PumpkinPie 23 Aug 2010, 6:41pm

    Wait, let me get this straight… You guys understand why it would be inappropriate to have a straight pride in response to a gay pride, but you still think it would be a good idea to have white pride in response to black pride? Does. Not. Compute.

    I think it’s great that different minorities can get together like this to show support for one another. And you know another great thing? White people can come along, too! Seriously, do some of you think this is some sort of exclusionist movement? White LGBTs are as welcome at black pride as straight people are at any old pride festival.

    Nobody bats an eyelid when lesbians have their own lesbian-specific events. Yet when race is thrown in, people get steamed up about it! Why is that? We can acknowledge that female homosexuals have their own specific issues, but we think black homosexuals should just fall in line? Odd, that.

  87. The comments here only indicate that discussions about race are sorely under-represented in gay (and hetero) British media. PinkNews is woefully careless about being inclusive. Under the guise of presenting news about the LGBT community, it continues to pay lip service to diversity (ethnic/gender/sexuality) while pandering to a white ethno-centric perspective. This news service needs to have more writers of colour and its white readers need to be more open to hearing out discussions about race before falling back on such tired ideas that such discussions perpetuate victimization and exclusion.

  88. John in Calif. 24 Aug 2010, 6:07am

    To equate the concept of “black pride” with “white pride” is pretty careless. Historically, one term has been used as a rallying cry for liberation, struggle, and collective action. The other has been used mainly as a vehicle for self-congratulatory gloating and justifying imperialism.

  89. John in calif. has shirley q liquer been bannned yet?

  90. Did anybody really think gay people were less rascist than other folk? What a patronising article, it’s seems that gay people have to be lumped into one big happy community, supposed to be more socially aware, more tolerant, less rascist etc . We’re no different from other folk when it comes to rascism surely, what’s the point of this article…. I know gay people are discriminated gainst and should be more aware of other discriminations but I don’t think it works like that…

    Isn’t the problem just rascism? why the gay pride aspect of it and linking it with a LGBT issue?

  91. jhon. the problem is that no one has adresses it. we’ve had campaigns to stop murder music, for cps and marriage, to stop overseas homophobia, outing clergy etc. even football had stamp it out campaign. but gay racism has carried on unchallenged an ignored by the great and the good of gay society. tatchell self appointed gay spokesman has been very quiet on this subject. if you search racism on the outrage site you get no answers.

  92. Reading through some of the comments here, I cannot help but cringe and feel so ashamed.

    Do we white LGBT people really have such a poor understanding of the dynamics that OUR racism (that is, of white people from all walks of life, the world over) over the decades has created an LGBT Apartheid?

    I mean… really Karl et Al? Do you REALLY not understand, or do you also subscribe to the heterosexual view that, now LGBT people have “equal rights” we ought to just shut up, go away and merge back into the shadows?

    What is this fantasy that I read about black and minority ethnic people having attained equality?

    Do educated LGBT people REALLY cultivate such appalling delusions, or is it just a sort of LGBTBNP??

    This kind disingenuous manipulation of the truth seeks to conceal the realities of life in our communities, full of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender myths about colour. I think Alex put it quite succintly… “tags” for “them” and we are “the norm”.

    Well, FYI, white people are nOT the norm, on a globasl scale, black, brown and golden skinned people are, we are just more successful at promoting ourselves, having gained economic supremacy from centuries of racist imperialism and colonialism.

    I am Roman, born of a long lineage of Roman descent that dates back to teh Republic (the records of the ‘salarii’ serve us well for genealogy!). From studying my people’s history I learned something of the legacy of brutality of the invasions of North Africa and Asia Minor.

    Living in Britain, learning about the history of the British Empire, I have often been struck by how well Britannia learned to apply the principles and weapons of conquest, colonisations and enslavement. The only difference is that at least the ancient Romans were pagans, with no mealy-mouthed claims over some Christian moral higher ground, and Constantine’s adhesion to Christianity outlawed slavery foerever… What is the excuse of the oh-so-moral British, French, Spanish and Portuguese?

    But I digress…. These disingenuous attempts to shove the prejudice that still reigns supreme in our communities under a threadbare carpet of ill-disguised LIES do us no honour, and I guess that is one Roman word I wish we would resurrect.

    As a white mother of a mixed-race daughter (white-polynesian) I am duty-bound not to confuse “non-racism” with anti-racism, because , though there is a clear demarcation line between the two, there is NO FENCE.

    If you are not anti-racist you are racist. Just as if you are not anti-homophobic you condone homophobia.

    I have no illusion that I am somehow free of racial prejudice, all I can do is keep a vigilant eye on my subconscious attitudes, challenge some of my innermost kneejerk reaction, check my notions and preconcepts against the ABUNDANT LITERATURE out there and try to cast a critical eye on the world around me, stand up to racism, call its despicable bluff and hopefully continue to progress, continue to contribute to a truly equal society.

    I had the disgrace of seeing my daughter assaulted and injured by a black boy, as a result of his and his peers’ homophobia, but I also had the good fortune of being able to turn to SARI (Support Against Racist Incidents) for help and support.

    Racism is a global phenomenon, it is also a primitive societal attitude which is why we, who have experience hatred, prejudice, discrimination and persecution, should be at the forefront of the effort to eliminate odious racism from our communities and make it clear to all LGBT people: NOT HERE, NOT NOW, NOT ANYTIME SOON!

    Excellent piece Kevin, thank you.

  93. Dean, that’s not fair. As much as I do not believe in some of Thatchell’s tactics he’s done much more for gay men and women then most have ever hoped.
    As well as this I should point you to his Wiki page perhaps. He’s a human rights activist and from what I understand campaigned tirelessly when in Australia for rights of the Aboriginal people.

    Also, let’s not forget his work in Zimbabwe and Russia shall we?

    Everyone has a right be treated with respect and decency regardless of colour, race or any other difference. However, that’s purely normative and in the real world it just doesn’t happen.

    I see no issue with Black Pride apart from it can appear divisive. But people do have a right to feel comfortable and seek others with similarities out, it’s the way humans behave in general.

  94. danny you proved my point he will go around the world but ignore what’s right under his nose. it makes no sense unless he’s afraid to challenge it.

  95. Post 85 – Alex Kraft

    Excellent expose of racism in the “Sanitised everyday violence” of categories, which you eloquently point out as the hidden agenda in which they fail to define and categorise.

  96. Alex Kraft 24 Aug 2010, 9:15pm

    See this:

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-3877.html/

    And the comments of the article. It’s so depressing and disappointing. I wonder…would all those gay white men who put “no blacks/asians/orientals” on their profiles think twice about Wentworth Miller? His father’s black and his mother’s white, but his skin tone is “white”. Perhaps if his skin colour were a little more tanned, maybe they’ll reconsider letting their white lips touch his “multi-racial/black” lips…

  97. Sister Mary Clarance 25 Aug 2010, 6:36am

    Thanks for that Alex, it made rather dismay reading.

  98. Alex Kraft: The author of that article stated “I don’t object to white men not finding men of other races unattractive at all. What I object to is websites like Gaydar and DatingDirect using it as an important criterion in their search terms and in their profile. I find that offensive.”

    I really think this is daft. Does looking for men/women make you sexist? Does specifying an age range make you ageist? If I prefer blondes to brunettes mean I’m racist because I’ve just dismissed 90% of the planet? No. People should stop getting so overtly sensitive over trivial issues and dumping their insecurities and baggage on other peoples laps. I have plenty of ethnic mates, I just have no wish to sleep with them. That is not racism, it’s personal choice. Get over it.

  99. It’s sad that some people can’t see why it’s hurtful to write ‘not into black or asian guys’ on a Gaydar profile. Some things are better not said. Is it really going to kill you if a black person messages you? It’s about being a decent human being.

    I got so fed up with the racism on one well-known dating site that I mentioned on my profile that I do like Black and Asian men. The feeble and resentful comments that I then received from some white men as if it was some slur on them were truly pathetic.

    Some people think I look mixed race so I’ve had a small insight to what it’s like. Guys ask ‘are you a bit foreign’ as if it’s some kind of disease.

    Also if you’re white and have never gone out on the gay scene with a black person then you have no idea what goes on sometimes. On one occasion my friend came back from a visit to the toilet looking unhappy and I found he had been faced with pathetic bigots making sly comments about holidays in ‘Nicaragua’ (but pronounced slightly differently). We had them thrown out of the bar.

  100. John in Calif. 26 Aug 2010, 8:57am

    @Dean

    Shirley is still performing apparently. And, of course, the usual suspects continue to defend his little blackface act as an expression of free speech. I find that whenever self-righteous people want to defend racist behavior that they secretly approve of, they denounce all criticism as “political correctness.” It is a cheap way to silence the opposition and, at the same time, abdicate responsibility. It also makes them appear like a martyr instead of a bigot.

  101. the stuff about skin isn’t always meant to be hurtful though – I can see how it does hurt though GS and it’s excellent you got the racists kicked out of the bar you we’re in

  102. Thanks John. There was something similar to that q thing here but I think it died or something

  103. Sister Mary Clarance 26 Aug 2010, 7:13pm

    “I have plenty of ethnic mates”

    Do they know you refer to them as ‘ethnic mates’? I’d be charmed if any of mine used that term about me.

  104. Sister Mary Clarance:”Do they know you refer to them as ‘ethnic mates’? I’d be charmed if any of mine used that term about me.

    Well they wouldn’t give a flying toss, because unlike you they aren’t some whinging little black tranny queen that sees every mention of colour as a personal affront to their race or culture, and they just get on with their lives.

  105. Alex Kraft 27 Aug 2010, 2:48pm

    Spanner: ‘…because unlike you they aren’t some whinging little black “tranny” queen…’ [My emphasis]

    Wow. Bigotry within an already existing minority. I knew it existed. Of course, the gay community isn’t perfect. But just to see it from time to time…I wonder if there’s any point in championing gay rights to begin with. It’s just so depressing, really.
    You should do well to remember that “trannies” were the active force during the Stonewall riots. Also, the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence seem to be doing far more for gay rights, or even human rights than you (but, I might just be wrong – then again, prove me wrong and tell me that you’ve been actively campaigning on the streets defending the gay community, have you been promoting safe sex to the public, raising awareness of HIV/AIDS, or have you been liaising with your MP about matters relating to LGBT, or even volunteering for any gay organisations?) If not? Well…

    P.S. To your comment above, which references mine, please avoid telling people to just “Get over it!” That’s just tantamount to saying “Just shut Up!” While I always welcome your comment, please bear in mind this is a forum for “discussion”; there are no absolutes, no be-all and end-alls.

  106. Alex. Spanner is a tool and has no friends black or white his comments are always racist homophobic and transphobic. he post under several names but his grammer is so idiosyncratic it’s embarrasing especially when he Answers his own comments. best to ignore it. smc you should know better.

  107. Sister Mary clarence 27 Aug 2010, 4:12pm

    Spanner, “….they wouldn’t give a flying toss, because ….”, they don’t exist mate.

    You haven’t got an ‘ethnic mates’, you probably haven’t got any non-ethnic ‘mates’ either for that matter.

    You can sit their an attribute any sort of qualities to like to these pretend ‘ethnic mates’ can’t you – they exist only in your head ….. “oohoooh yeah, my ethnic mates think I’m really cool” … “all my ethnic mates think I’m really hot” …. “my ethic mates all love to hear me talking because I’m soooo clever”

    Pretend friends must be so cool Spanner. I wish I was a fantacist like you.

  108. Thanks for warning me Dean. I’m pretty new here, so I’m not really aware of people like Spanner.

  109. I’m a white EU emigrant livivg in london and I have to say that despite being white i get racism attitudes from both white and ethnic british people , but at the same time ‘ethnic’ gay guys usually are the most friendly ones. Dont see why having black pride would even bother white lgbt? Its not as if they promote hatred towards white section of community.

  110. No problem Alex

  111. This is one of the best and very truthful articles i’ve read. As a multiracial guy with dark skin ive heard the same things as he heard here in the US “im not racist but not into blacks or asians” or “sorry to offend you but do you have cute gay white friend?” we as the gay community have to overcome this how can we ask for full quality when the our community is divided….we all must truly love one another for who we are…people! or be alone

    -Terry

  112. interesting article. Very thoughtful if a little bit of a downer. I do often dislike and criticise those in the gay or any community that develop through years of prejudice an oversensitive chip on their shoulder and get overly pc and take offence at everything and you can’t talk to them or laugh with them like a real person anymore yet I thought this article very useful and it did make me think about this issue and reconsider my thoughts on it. I think everyone is prejudice about something to a greater or lesser degree we can’t help it. I think alot of LGBT maybe more likely to be less racist than the straight community firstly because they’ve shared abuse too and secondly because there are physically less of us but I’m sure there are quite a few gay racists too. I notice that the lgbt community can seem rather white is this because of racist gays? i think its more less outness in ethnic groups. There is alot of evidence to suggest black and ethnic minorities have more homophobic people in them on average compared to white groups and this might cause caution and perhaps a little fear and racism on the part of some white lgbt people but thats no excuse.
    I think there is racism against white people too or myabe certain white people. my friend has been attacked by black and ethnic minority people in his home city because of his pale skin. We are gothic people. very white skin maybe some darker skin people think we are ugly because of this i don’t know. but racism certainly works both ways. i think black pride is a good thing in the way gay pride is a good thing but i don’t think gay pride should be seperated into races and have a black gay pride. i think this is exclusive and what does it say about us all. i wish when LGBT are faced with racism from lgbt white people rather than going off and forming their own pride they stick with it and make people know they have a right to be there and respected.
    Yes sexually we all have our own tastes. I really don’t fancy males with shirt hair but that doesn’t mean we can’t be friends. it is sad that because of our world’s history white pride would be obviously racist how humorous it would be if it happened and everyone thought it was a white supremisist pride but it was genually innocent love by some pale people of their skin. I think every group thinks they face the most prejudice. gays think they have it worse ethnic minorities think they have it worse bisexuals think they have it worse. cruelty and exclusion isn’t nice even if its not a prejudice of what you are but who you are. we all like different stuff and look different. I was raised by a weird family where i thought all sexualities were normal and i kinda thought race was random eg too black people could have a white baby. discovering the worlds hate is a scary thing that still confuses me. I think if you meet people with prejudice views with innocence and humour it can overcome alot you know. I like my super pale skin and dark skin is pretty too but always someone at some point in every community is going to be a dick. lets at least make an effort to fit in, give the finger to those who don’t like us rather than run away and try to stay positive. but thank you for making me consider this issue that i had not previously thought much about.

  113. My comment is to Marjangles:
    I have lived in Los Angeles for almost 9 years and I can tell you that you are dead WRONG about the “black community in California…[leading] to the passing of Proposition 8.” If every black person in the state had voted for prop 8 and no one else had, there is not enough of us here, demographically, to achieve that. You are regurgitating a notion that has already been dispelled right here where it happened. Interesting that you mentioned the black community and not the church community and Mormons in particular who are REALLY responsible for the passage of prop 8. Please be more responsible with your facts.

  114. I am a black gay man and a very open and active one for that matter.I volunteered for the Black Pride in its first two years and I want to say Kelvin, I share with passion some of the things that you said. I have faced racism as a black gay men, being objectified by other gay men just because I am a black man and seeing me for the sex and not as a person.Also I face increasing homophobia from the members of the BME communities on a daily basis, and this to me is very scary. it was on this basis that I disagree with the philosophy behind “Black Pride”. To me this event should be a protest and awareness raising and not a party as it has become. It should seek to promote the challenges Black people face within their own community, but as far as the organizer of black pride are concerned it is all about the “money” like Jessie J will say.

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