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Orthodox rabbis sign pro-gay document

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  1. I’m not quite sure on how to comment on this.

    Am I meant to feel humbled by this new openness?

    Am I meant to respect their knowledge when I read ‘…the issue of whether or not sexual orientation is genetic or environmentally generated is irrelevant when it comes to how LGBT people should be treated.’

    Well, thanks, yeh. Now I can feel accepted ;-) Hoorah!

    Next story please!

  2. Simon.Murphy 13 Aug 2010, 5:53pm

    Some perspective would be appreciated

    So 150 orthodox rabbis have stated that gay people are to be treated with respect?

    So far so good.

    BUt how many orthodox rabbis are there in the world?

    Are these 150 a minority?

    If so does that mean that a majority of orthodox rabbis are still homophobic scumbags?

    And do these 150 rabbis reject the biblical teaching that states that homosexuality is an abomination? Or do they still believe that homosexuality is an abomination but that it just means that you have to be polite to the abominations who appear in their synagogues.

    I instinctively distrust religion. It has so little of any value to offer the world.

    Nice that these 150 guys (are women allowed to be orthodox rabbis or is it a sexist boys-only club?) are polite.

    But what is the broader picture?

  3. They are horribly embarrassed by the murder of 2 and serious wounding of 11 – some paralyzed for life – by an apparent ultra orthodox jew in July of 2009 at the Tel Aviv gay community center. And then by the statement by an ultra orthodox member of the army – “this is only the beginning – the next one will be worse. At least the israelis threw him in jail, unfortunately not a jail filled with his kind – Hamas.

    And in Jan of 2990, after most likely reading the RATZI popes xmas message saying gays would destroy civilization, a couple of the members of the Israeli parliment – ultra orthodox – said “gays are worse then bird flu”. A call for the genocide of the people who shared hitler s ovens with the close relatives of the speakers of this mad remark. Again most likely clued in by the Ratzi pope.

    They are all bible thumpers. the first thing the world needs to do is burn every last copy of the bible.

    And the second is to teach Jesus 2nd of only two commandments – to love thy neighbor as thyself.

    Now you know why I refused to go to Israel in June of 2009 with my wife. I said something really bad was going to happen. And it did. I would have missed the shooting by only a couple weeks and most likely would have met the victims.

    And until Israel finds hte murderer, and makes him the 2nd person they have ever executed _ Eichman of he holocaust was the first – I’ll never go there.

    Hold the Orthodox rabbis feet to the fire. Nothing but full recongition of gay poeple, including support for gay marriage etc is good enough.

  4. ahhhhh!!!! why don’t my messages appear???

  5. These messages strike me as rather ungenerous. Surely we should welcome it if orthodox rabbis are putting prejudice behind them and embracing the gay community. As for gay marriage – well, this only became an issue for gays very recently; we can’t expect orthodox Judaism to embrace the entire pro-gay political agenda overnight.

  6. steve kay, you can’t mention Hitler in one breath and then call for book burning in the next. Besides, the King James Bible contains some great literature.

  7. A little ray of hope and a notion that a small group of religious people can think so openly and not be confined to the “safe feeling” dark ages. Seems that faith and Progressive-common-sense can go hand in had on some occasions.

  8. Too little too late is what springs to mind.
    Should we thank their forebears? the priestly class of mass murderers the Levites for the text (intended only for them) that found it’s way into the old testament of the Bible @Leviticus and when carefully misinterpreted started the anti-gay hatred in the first place?
    All the empty religions that spring from the Middle East, Judaism, Christianity and Islam continue to spread this same primitive tribal poison throughout the world.

  9. “Judaism, Christianity and Islam continue to spread this same primitive tribal poison throughout the world.” But perhaps this document shows that some religions are changing.

    Of course, having said that it’s worth pointing out that, if some religions have become more liberal, then this is only because of the wider influence of a largely secular society. The ethics of society has changed and some religions are starting to catch up. But this itself shows how pointless religions are now. They used to be leaders. Now they are relegated either to following or – if they reject modernity – to the mad Christian right or the equally mad Islamic militants. Religion used to inspire great things – great art and literature and ethical ideas that were once morally progressive. Now it is a mere husk, which is why it deserves to be disgarded.

  10. Simon Murphy 16 Aug 2010, 1:51am

    “Surely we should welcome it if orthodox rabbis are putting prejudice behind them and embracing the gay community.”

    Are they though.

    It’s only 150 of them.

    That’s nice but the question remains. Are these 150 rabbis a minority?

    It’s nice that that they are being kind, but if the majority of orthodox rabbis are still bigotted scumbags, then it’s hardly a cause for celebration.

    After all, some catholic priests are kind. But their religion is still inexcusably vicious and horrible.

    This story is irrelevant. It does not give the overall picture.

  11. Simon you have a dislike or organised religeon, which is fair enough but it does colour your perspective. I am a non orthodox (reform) Jew. I have little time for the ultra orthodox (putting it mildly), but welcome that they take the time and make the effort to reach this conclusion. It is a movement – albeit from a wholly unacceptable base, and if it sends signals to the orthodox and middle ranking but religeous community, then some good may come of it. You can’t dismiss the low number – I assume that these are community leaders of some sort, so there will be a fliter down process. Let’s see if anything happens. These cultural changes are slow but they have to start somewhere, and this one may have started – don’t knock it.

  12. Hope all those Moslem apologists take note – far rather be gay in an Israeli controlled Gaza than one misruled by the rabid homophobic hamas.

  13. Yes, I made the same observation in another thread. I.e. that there was a gay pride march recently in Jerusalem – something which would be utterly *unthinkable* in any of the surrounding states. Israel does foolish and (occasionally) even wicked things, but let’s not let our rightful excoriation of Israel’s foreign policy blind us to the fact that Israel is *way* better as a society – far more civilised and democratic – to anything else in the region. I sometimes think lefties forget this.

  14. Let’s take it as a good outlook. Will the old man in the Vatican take note??

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