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UK Black Pride takes place in London this Saturday

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  1. seems a strange concept to me; if it were White Pride it would be called racist? I thought we were all gay under the skin and therfore colour does not matter????

  2. dude there is still racism on the gay scene that has never been addressed by the self appointed gay spokesman tatchell.
    there will be White men at black pride just give them one day where they don’t have to deal with either homophobia or racism.

  3. This is surely the most tokenist gesture ever?

  4. PumpkinPie 12 Aug 2010, 4:10pm

    Makes sense to me. Straight people get empowerment for their racial minorities, so why shouldn’t LGBTs? As for white pride, it doesn’t exist for the same reason straight pride doesn’t. Celebrations like this seek to level the playing field for minorities. Majorities don’t have them because they don’t need them.

  5. Dean there are many Black people who are racist toward white and Asian people is alway reported as white on black. Yes they are some gay im sure who are racist I personally dont come across many gay that are.

    secondly many in the black community have a hatred toward gay men be they black white or whatever colour

    So I don’t see why there is need for black pride we are all fighting for equally that said I don’t have an issue with any pride


  6. Simon.Murphy 12 Aug 2010, 5:19pm

    I fully see the point of Black Pride.

    It exists for the same reason as Gay Pride.

    It exists for the same reason as the Notting Hill Festival.

    It exists for the same reason as the St Patrick’s Day Festival.

    Gay Pride or Black Pride or the Notting Hill Festival or the St Patrick’s Day Festival exist to allow gay people, or black people, or Irish people, or black gay people a chance to feel confident and affirmed in their identity.

    They do not exist because mainstream society permits them to exist.

    If you don’t like it, then don’t attend it. But to criticise Black Gay people for having a Pride celebration is no different from a straight person saying ‘Oh there goes that stupid Gay Pride again. Why do gay people feel any need to have a gay pride. You don’t see straight people having a Straight Pride’

    We live in Britain. It is a predominantly white straight country. To criticise Black Pride is as churlish as it is to criticise Gay Pride.

  7. Simon and Pumkin you’ve warmed my heart xxxxxx

  8. I am with Dean on this one, it is lovely to see that ignorance is not as widespread as I sometimes assume. I am black and gay and I am active in my local LGBT community, not many Black people are visible where I live, so I am often one of very few, if not the only Black person! Going to Black Pride gives me an opportunity to breathe and remember that ‘I am not alone’. I put my money where my mouth is by travelling a distance to attend each year. Long may it continue to exist! Yes we are all gay but under the gay umbrella exists much diversity, that diversity should make us stronger and mutually supportive of each other not inward looking and prejudice. I no more defend prejudiced black people than I do white, I no more condone internalised homophobia than I do homophobia from non-LGBT people! We are white, Black, disabled, older, younger, rich poor, urban, rural women, men….we are all gay. Let’s stop the hate and celebrate! One love Sonya x

  9. godeh Sonya have fun this weekend xx

  10. Ashley-Yin 13 Aug 2010, 2:55am

    To all those whose think I as a trans-queer, black female who has a few neuro-diversities(learning disabilities) as well shouldn’t shout to the very edge of the sky that I’m still alive after 26 and counting years of crap from people who are jelous that I’m living my life with thought, acceptance and understanding… Need to find the love ^_^

  11. sounds interesting.

  12. An Cat Dubh 13 Aug 2010, 1:50pm

    …Am I the only one that black-and-rainbow design reminded the Pride Flag with the black stripe?
    And Ashley: You sound whopper :D

  13. Just more black separatism and antagonism. Very few black gay people come out and when they do all they want to talk about is imaginary racism of white gay men because they have been sexually rejected by white gay men.

  14. Ian, Elias Abuelazam murdered 5 and stabbed 30 black men in the USA he was caught today and is the main suspect. there is no mention on this site but other us stories like prop 8 and portia. de rossi changing her name are big deals. you tell me why that is?

  15. This isn’t black separatism – it’s encouraging ethnic minority gays, who often face higher levels of homophobia than white gays, that there are many others just like them and that there is a welcoming place for them in both their ethnic minority community and in the gay community. It’s about normalising LGBT issues throughout all parts of our society, and this will lead to more integration and less separation in the long term.

    Next we’ll be slinging mud at Imaan. Why are their meets only ever Muslims, eh?

  16. Thanks An Cat Dubh ^_^

    As for being separatist… You’ve got to be kidding, firstly get out more
    and secondly when you do get out go to black pride it’s my first time tmoz and even I know there’s more than one type of black… That also includes white people. If we’re separatist then you must have a pretty good argument to prove it.

  17. Simon.Murphy 13 Aug 2010, 11:29pm

    “Just more black separatism and antagonism.”

    Are you stupid or ignorant or both?

    How is black gay people having a celebration antagonistic towards you?

    Be specific in your answer please.

    You’d be welcome to attend if you felt like it. Quite clearly you don’t though. I mean if you believe that a group of people having a celebration of their identities is separatist and antagonistic, you would be appalled by a St George’s Day celebration in the US. I mean how f***ing antagonistic and separatist could those English people be to celebrate their national day while abroad.

  18. Although I can see the need for public exposure of themselves, I still agree with many on here that it is also divisive. These people are in not one, but two minorities, but I think doing this actually pushes them away from the other gay people who are not black. Before you know it, we will have Asian handicapped over-60’s Pride. All it does is fragment the cause.

    And as for people stating that Black people have a hard time on the gay scene, the flip side is that many white gay people get a considerably higher proportion of homophobia from Afro-Caribbeans. Don’t forget it’s a two-way stretch.

  19. I geddit you get homophobia from straight black people so that allows you to hate black gay people. thank for clearing that up

  20. typically rabid babbling for the right wing lunatic that is spanner. Although I will commend him on using his hatred my stealthily this time.

    Mate seriously do you spend all day on pink news regurgitating your rupert murdoch/richard littlejohn asinine views because you are constantly rejected and lonely from better looking men? Or are you just a complete an utter nasty human being? I really cannot work it out!?

    All your views are so predictable it is kind of comical… the funniest/tragic thing with people like you is that you fail to see that every political view that you espouse is actually just down to your irrational fear of what is different to you.

  21. I’m all in favour of Black Pride, but I want to just go back and say something in defence of Peter Tatchell who was attacked earlier on in this thread. Tatchell has spoken out on numerous occasions against racism – for instance last July he very publicly confronted Nick Griffin of the BNP on his party’s anti-semitism. I don’t know whether he’s specifically addressed racism within the gay community, but he certainly opposes racism everywhere and in all communities. It was also alleged that he is a ‘self appointed gay spokesman’. So far as I know, he’s never claimed to be a ‘gay spokesman’.

  22. Sister Mary Clarance 15 Aug 2010, 8:08am


    “Just more black separatism and antagonism.”

    Oh yeah, that’s the sort of thing mate – very much along the same lines a gay pride is about separatism and antagonism … and don’t get me started on that Para Olympics ….

    @ Spanner

    “All it does is fragment the cause”

    What cause is that mate?

    Self interest?

  23. Well it’s not black pride, it’s gay pride for anyone who isn’t white. So come on guys I don’t think it’s right wing, or stupid or ignorant or any other name the bullies above have called anyone who has pointed out that this is a bit exclusive. I don’t have a problem with that btw, I think it’s a good idea, I like exclusive, but it is a bit racist against white Europeans. Making it specific does make it more of a fetish weekend than a gay pride, like a gay skinhead convention, or a men only bar – it’s just a good day out for a specific group of people – it isn’t inclusive, but so what, fetish events aren’t. If gay pride in london were called white pride, then that wouldn’t feel very inclusive – even if it said blacks and asians are welcome. It does feel a bit racist to me when you make out that it’s a political or sociological event. You do however loose your public funding when it becomes a fetish weekend rather than political and have to look for private sponsors. And it did start out as a black lesbian only day out, so that’s either an event for lesbians with racial issues, or a fetish event.

    I hope everyone has/had a good party. I would have gone myself if I’d known, you can’t beat a sexy black guy.

  24. Simon Murphy 16 Aug 2010, 2:07am

    “but it is a bit racist against white Europeans”


    It’s not about white Europeans.

    It’s about a group of like-minded people having a celebration.

    Gay pride is not about straight people. It’s a chance for gay people to get together to celebrate.

    Black pride is the same.

    Don’t be so arrogant to think that because a group of people with a different background from yourself are having a party, that it means their intention is to exclude you.

    It’s not.

    They are having a celebration of their own identity.

    That is a wonderful thing.

    How does that exclude anyone?

    Britain is a great place, but it’s also a place that minorities are excluded from the mainstream.

    If they (black, Asian, Irish, disabled, left-handed, whatever) have a party, then you should realise that they are doing it for themselves.

    It’s not about you.

    I’m sure Black Pride is welcoming to everyone. So there is no reason to complain about it.

  25. what does it matter about it being black pride? musically there’s many awards like the mobos etc but music is there for all so isn’t pride the same? that it’s there for all no matter the skin tone etc
    plus why is there ignorance towards others on a LBGT site? isn’t that a bit hypocritical?

  26. “I hope everyone has/had a good party. I would have gone myself if I’d known, you can’t beat a sexy black guy”. yeah that’s rights not patronising at all. let me guess you call him Mandingo in your fantasies. prick

  27. I was sat in bed yesterday afternoon looking at online news, seeing what was happening in the World!

    One of the websites I looked at was and an article on the event.. UK Black Pride, which was held in Regent’s Park, London on Saturday gone. I’m not one generally for Gay Pride’s (I’m getting old now!) but I was going to attend this one with Alex, as I’d heard good things about it from friends who went last year. Unfortunately, Alex and I had a friend visiting from Wales and together with the bad weather, we didn’t end up going. Which was a shame really.

    Anyway, the Pink News article was highlighting UK Black Pride’s 5th annual event and was quite innocent, until I read some of the comments that readers of the online newspaper wrote about black members of the gay community. Some of these comments were disturbing and more so coming from members of a minority community, but were not surprising to me. I think I can safely say that the majority of Pink News readers are either Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual or Trans-Gender (LGBT).

    As a mixed-race gay male who identifies as being black, as this is how I look and what I am proud of, I have always been honest and open with my friends about my own experiences of racism in my 11 years of being ‘out’. People who are visibly ethnic are not immune from racism that exists towards black and Asian people, from either the white LGBT or straight communities. It doesn’t matter how nice you are as a black or Asian person, how well you get on with white people or how good-looking and cool you are, racism in all forms is as prevalent in the gay community of which I am part of, as it is mainstream.

    It would be naive to think that just because gay, lesbian, bisexual and trans-gender people themselves are seen as a minority, that they are welcoming to visible ethnic minorities gay or straight. This is not always the case. In my adult life, I have experienced my own fair share of racism and discrimination from both white LGBT and straight people, direct and indirect. I too am not one for siding, but when I read information which is not factually correct or itself is discriminatory as I saw yesterday on the comments page of the Pink News’s UK Black Pride article, I feel compelled to comment myself from the perspective of someone who is a visible ethnic gay person.

    My mum who is the most beautiful person in the World is white, Alex my husband is white (married in Canada, as opposed to a UK Civil Partnership) who is amazing, my best friend and soulmate and the majority of my friends, straight and gay are white (for no particular reason), but ‘a racist is a racist’. It doesn’t matter if you’re a minority yourself, you cannot pick and choose when you are discriminated against or discriminate against others. I fully understand the comments on Pink News are un-moderated and do not necessarily represent the views of the online newspaper, but they do reflect a fraction of the LGBT community whom are racist. Some may think members of the LGBT community would be more understanding when it comes to diversity, but often they are no better at demonstrating tolerance than mainstream society.

    ‘Mike’ comments on Pink News that UK Black Pride seems a ’strange’ concept and ‘if it were White Pride, it would be called racist’. What Mike fails to see is that ‘White Pride’ (albeit not in name) takes place throughout the UK every other month, it’s known as ‘UK Prides’. Visible ethnic minority men and indeed women are not readily accepted into the LGBT community by all, in particular the gay male community of which I know myself. Even today, gay social networking sites have comments like..

    * Sorry, no blacks or Asians
    * Not really into Asian guys…no prejudice, just not my thing….
    * If you’re black or Asian, please don’t message me, nothing personal

    Now, clearly I fully understand that people have preferences, but many of these gay social networking sites don’t have a section or tick box where you indicate your dislike/non-interest of others. These are unsolicited comments by the individual who has felt it appropriate to declare such a statement to the World and disregard a whole race of people. There are stupid comments too like ‘I’ve never been with a black man’, ‘I’ve always wanted to go with a black man’. Sorry to break the myth, but most black, Asian and mixed-race gay guys have 2 legs, 2 arms, 1 head and yes, a penis. If you allow others to treat you like a ‘freak show’, then this is what they will do.

    I know racism goes two ways, but in all my adult life and I have lived in 3 of the UK’s major cities (Liverpool, Manchester and London) I am yet to meet a black or Asian person who has been homophobic towards me or others or I have overheard them be homophobic. To the contrary actually. Many have been led to believe that this is more prevalent by visibly ethnic people because black people are mainly Christian and Asians Muslim. This I don’t buy. On the other hand, I could list a fair few white members of the LGBT community who use racist language as part of their vocabulary and some who are meant to be LGBT leaders in public organisations! I can choose not to associate with these people, but I cannot stop them from speaking discriminatory. I ask how can one fight for equality and fairness, when you use words like ‘nigger’ yourself? It is wrong that some members of the LGBT community fight discrimination on one hand and discriminate on the other. Integrity over double-standards should be the case, every time. It’s not negotiable.

    Another comment by ‘Ian’ on states.. ‘Just more black separatism and antagonism. Very few black people come out and when they do all they want to talk about is imaginery racism of white gay men because they have been sexually rejected by white gay men’. I think Ian sums up my entire point. When black and Asian people feel like they do not belong, maybe they see no other choice than to hold a Pride for them, which causes no harm to anyone and where they can meet other like minded people, black, white, gay and straight. The fact that Ian who hasn’t got a clue about the lives visible ethnic LGBT people lead, is arrogant to think that this event is being held because black and Asian people have been ‘blown out’ by white gay men. I’m assuming he means the likes of him. Get a grip. Apart from being a fool Ian, you should be ashamed of yourself.

    My blog is not to start a debate on the rights and wrongs of Gay Prides and indeed any other event for either straight or gay people, but if the visibly ethnic members of the LGBT community feel they need or indeed want to hold this type of event, then why shouldn’t they? Great men and women of all colours, races and sexuality have fought for the freedoms those of us in the UK have the privilege of. Good men and women continue to die today.

    Yes, we live in a Country that is predominantly white and straight, this is how it should be, it is Britain after all. However, we now live in the 21st Century where not just Britain has changed, but the whole World. This is something we all have to get to grips with. That said, it doesn’t mean a free reign on discriminatory treatment. People of all colours have helped to put the ‘Great’ in Britain over hundreds of years from Asian to the Caribbean via Africa and this shouldn’t be forgotten.

    On a final point, I note every other year Stonewall, the UK’s leading LGB charity publishes it’s ‘Top 100 Employers’ about how they are improving the working environment for members of the LGB community, which is good. However, I am yet to see (and I’m happy to be proven wrong) any black or Asian organisation (gay or straight) declare the same about these same institutions, many being public bodies. I see part of this reason as being it is more acceptable to be white and gay, than it is black or Asian and gay. I hope one day for this to change.

    Two wrongs don’t make a right, but what some members of the LGBT community forget is that to an extent you can hide your sexuality, but black and Asian people ‘cannot’ hide their colour. It is the first thing that you see. I’m not saying being black or Asian is more of a minority than being gay or lesbian, but it is different. One is to do with the race of an individual which they cannot change even if they wanted to, the other is to do with sexuality were an individual can make a choice if he or she chooses. When you are the only black face in a room of 20 people, it is not others sexuality that you see, but the colour of their skin. If there is going to be a debate on black LGBT issues, then it at least needs to be a real and intelligent one, based on facts not myths.

    In April of this year, having lived in Manchester for 12 years and being born in Liverpool, I sent an email to the Chief Executive of the Lesbian and Gay Foundation (LGF) charity, which is North West England based but again a major UK LGB organisation. I asked the Chief Executive as a member of the LGBT community whether there was a reason that of all the 32 full and part-time staff employed by the LGF, non were from a BME (Black Mixed Ethnic) background and was there a reason for this. Paul Martin, the Chief Executive replied personally to me with an explanation as to why there was no or perceived representation of visible ethnic minority people within the LGF. Considering Manchester is a multiracial City, I would have thought it had some representation within the LGF.

    That said, Paul was honest as to the reasons for the lack of or perceived un-representation by his organisation and together we will be looking at ways to improve this and offer a better service for members of the LGBT community, black, Asian or otherwise. I am not one for exclusiveness, I prefer inclusiveness and as I have reiterated most of my good friends are white and many straight, so I’ve no hidden agenda. But sadly, we do not yet live in a World which has total equality, fairness and justice for all and we all have a duty to ensure this. Not just for ourselves, but our younger family members like my nieces and nephews. My nephew is mixed-race and has much lighter skin colour than me, he is a good child and plays football, yet he is having problems at school because some of the other kids don’t like the colour of his skin. Surely this can’t be right, he’s 11-years old.

    Many are discriminated against, the Irish, obese people, ginger people, skinny people, bald people and even Scousers and non of these are acceptable either. Yes, most us like a good joke and a bit of banter and if you know me, you will know I’m no exception. However, when it turns nasty and intentional with the goal of hurting someone or causing harm, you stop laughing.

    Racism – Ruin Lives!

  28. but black and Asian people ‘cannot’ hide their colour. It is the first thing that you see”.

    first thing you see.

    Racism – Ruin Lives

    yeah if youre weak enough to let it p*ssy

  29. racism can and does ruin lives – it’s not about being weak either and it’s very easy to insult others from behind a keyboard on a faceless website
    Thanks for writing all that Max

  30. yeah Chester lis right if you encounter racism roll over and die you stand no chance and you must let it ruin your life. thanks for that cheater you are inspirational

  31. Well said Max. Unlike many making comments here, I went to Black Pride on Saturday, travelled from the Midlands despite the terrible weather forecast, and guess what the crowd as always was racially mixed. Many LGBT people who come under the umbrella of Black Pride have white partners and friends and indeed as several people have indicated everyone is welcome. The truth is many of those commenting here would never ever go to Black Pride, that would take them outside of their comfort zone, in the scheme of things if you , are white and especially male, then you are in the mainstream of the gay community. What most people don’t get, is the fact that many Black people constantly operate outside their comfort zone in the White mainstream LGBT and non-LGBT world… we live in a white society and of course this is an ever day experience… We are not complaining about that!
    I challenge those who argue that Black Pride is exclusive, to actually go in 2011 or at the very least visit the website and view the photographs and avoid buying into, what are essentially the product of socialisation in a society where racism is institutionalised and racist stereotypes abound. For those who argue that Black people are homophobic (although I contest the fact that Black people are any more racist than any other population, I do concede that some fundamental Christians, like fundamental Jews, Muslims and any other religion do tend to be more homophobic than people in general). So as far as Black fundamentalist Christians and those who adhere to the Old Testament Sodom and Gomorrah malarkey are concerned, the levels of homophobia are likely to be higher. However, the latter being likely, who do you think faces the brunt of that homophobia, white people who often don’t live in black communities worldwide or Black people who have less choice about where they live? Whose own families and neighbours reject and vilify them for their sexual orientation and gender? If you want to test this theory do go to any list of LGBT people that were murdered worldwide in 2009/2010 and see how many come under the Black umbrella! Get a grip people and analyse what you are saying and why you begrudge and fear Black Pride!
    Finally, let me just say that mainstream London Pride and Pride celebrations all over the country are often a microcosm of hetero society, notably in the way they represent the majority or sadly those who organise them (when was the last time you were asked what you wanted from your local Pride celebration?). The latter point may well be an artefact of making the most of scarce resources but the evidence suggests that there are BIG problems around representation even where a majority group are concerned. There are many unspoken truths about the LGBT community which need to be aired, discussed and addressed. Black Pride to which everyone is invited and welcomed, is hardly the controversial issue that it is made out to be here, there are far more pressing issues such as cronyism, public accountability, representation and the visible exclusion of trans, bi and women from the hierarchy. Consider this factor for example…of the 13 committee members on London Pride board none are women! So London Pride can hardly claim to be the bastion of representation or inclusion. Indeed, the statistic is equally appalling for their Trustees, where of the 16 only 3 are women! Women make up 50% of the population…. You want more, why are most LGBT organisations (paid employment, not voluntary) more than 90% headed by gay men? Why should women accept this? Would gay men accept 90% of LGBT organisations being run by hetero men…come on people get real!
    Black Pride was great, I got wet in the rain, ate great food, heard political speeches and poetry and performance (often contemporary Prides are high on booze and celebration, but low on the PRIDE BIT! Have we forgotten what it is we are proud off?) danced and laughed with friends (we travelled from the Midlands 1 black woman (ME, and 3 white, my partner and 2 friends). The diversity of the LGBT community should be our strength not a beating stick!
    I am active in my local LGBT community where I am often one of very few people of colour. I don’t go on about race and representation in that setting, I am concerned with larger LGBT issues. However, when I go to Black Pride I go celebrate with other Black LGBT people, to remind myself I am not alone, to share in the ongoing struggle that many face (not just here in the UK but worldwide? I work to promote LGBT heritage, involvement in sport and culture and I find myself less interested in ‘Pride’ celebrations which focus on drinking and music, as so many other festivals do that! If we are to debate Pride lets debate something important, rather than questioning that Black Pride exists, lets discuss what it is we are Proud of and why we continue to congregate!
    Peace out Sonya

  32. Sister Mary Clarance 17 Aug 2010, 4:46am

    “yeah if youre weak enough to let it p*ssy”

    That’s the sort of society we live in then Dean is it – Lord of the Flies, only the strong survive?

  33. facing bigotry like racism, homophobia can and does affect people in many different ways, that’s obvious to anyone who tries to understand others instead of being on the attack and abusing others!

  34. Sonya I’m glad you had a great time.   can I ask your opinion if you see the posts from Chester he seems to think that black people should allow racism to ruin their lives he likes to make it a bigger deal than it is. he comes across as someone who never experienced racism so acts on what he’s heard     I think Chester is dangerous I don’t know much about him but he plays racism up as the most destructive thing on the planet.   if he was giving advice to anyone who encountered racism that person would give up hope.   to me he’s worse than a racist he a liberal who has low expectations of black people   what do you think?  

  35. Sister Mary Clarance 17 Aug 2010, 6:47pm

    Sorry Dean I was a bit confused by your postings in that case then. I’m all for standing up for myself if someone has a go at me, but I’m a fair bit about average height and fairly muscular, so consequently anyone looking for a fight usually looks somewhere else.

    That said thought, whilst I don’t personally generally experience it myself, I am well aware of the devastating effects bullying and intimidation can have on a person whether if be because of their race, sexual orientation, or any one of a number of things.

    Bullying is usually carried out by people who feel physically superior to their victim, so I’m not entirely sure you’re ethos of not being a ‘pussy’ when confronted by someone hurling racist abuse at you, who you can clearly see is physically superior to you, come in.

    Racially abused and then getting your head kicked in, well that’s just a perfect day isn’t it?

    In your posting to Sonia you mention that Chester seems to have a low expectation of black people. What is your expectation of us? Black doesn’t necessarily mean you’re built like Mike Tyson. We come in all shapes and sizes.

    Persecution of any sort can devastate a person’s life – racism no less that any other form.

  36. Hey Dean, I read Chester’s mail and well I am fence sitting a bit on this one. I mean the impact of racism like homophobia or any other kind of discrimination depends on so many variables both external and internal to the individual and we all develop very different ways to fight it. Besides someone once said if a broken finger nail was the worst thing that has ever happened to you then for you it’s the worst thing. A dictum I live by is walk a day in someone else’s shoes…if we could all do that what a world it would be! It is equally true to say though that if you act like a doormat (I am not casting any aspersions Chester) then don’t be surprised when people wipe their feet on you….. I am not sure that what I have to say here is even valid, but that is my assessment of the situation. See you at Black Pride2011! x

  37. Hi Sonya. Thanks for replying I will chillout a bit and as you say walk a day in anothers shoes and try to be more understanding. Maybe I will make it to pride 2011. Thanks again and please keep posting I value your contribution. xx

  38. I am black & gay… and also, a proud one for all that matters or is. I am who I am.

    But I refuse to accept that separatism will solve the problem ever. In stead, we will always have one Pride or the other to mount someone. That is disheartening and hopeless.

    What we need is rights and responsibilities, not just rights.
    What we need is acceptance and belonging, not just acceptance.
    What we need is contributing and taking, not just taking.
    What we need is tolerating and supporting each other, not just being tolerated.
    What we need is a balance of these things to have a fairer society.
    What we need is a society, not a labelled one or Blacks, Whites, Asians, Fat, Slim, etc.
    What we need is understanding, fair play and contribution.
    What we need is not people preferring to be the bullied
    What we need is to check ourselves individually on how we contribute to racism either by giving or taking it…

    Finally, what we need is the Truth that Racism is has no colour.

    Black pride, gay prides, UK prides, St. Patrick’s days, etc are not a solution. They are a congealed noise that comes and goes. Those one-day pride can make more impact if spread across every day of the year rather than people being gay and ‘proud’ on gay pride day in central London while they go back to their community in say Wood Green the same evening and become pure heterosexual and masculine and would not speak to any person percieved to be gay.

    We need the Truth; and we know the Truth hurts.

    Read my response to #27- Max’s blog on my own blog here:

    Racism affects all; its wrong for blacks to claim its just them or vice-versa.

  39. If we lived in a utopia then maybe Godwyns, unfortunately most of us inhabit the real world where everyone is not, nor will they ever , all be nice and thoughtful and empathetic! Furthermore, having read the mails here, which are varied in content I fail to see how you can argue that all the people who have posted are saying that only Black people face racism! You obviously have not read through the postings…in fact with few exceptions where race is mentioned it is in context, nobody here, that I have read, is just bleating on in an ‘oh pity me mode’. Race does matter, sexual orientation does matter, disability matters, poverty matters, gender matters, religion matters….need I go on and on?
    I would advise that we all read carefully each posting before we rush to judge and offer a world view on someone else’s experiences and opinion. I am glad that your world is perfect Godwyns, sadly mine is not and I personally am working to create change across the board. To deny the realities of discrimination based diversity is surely problematic! Finally, has it occurred to you that some people like mixing with people who are like themselves, there is nothing wrong with each group celebrating without it being seen as a problem or threat by other groups. Lesson in human rights, our rights end when they affect those of other people. Similarly there is nothing wrong with discussing racism in context of the discussion here without people taking that to mean that we are saying we are the only one’s who have suffered, or suffered the most or that it negates disabalism, homophobia, ageism or any other status based discrimination and hatred. I defy anyone to dictate to me that in the isolation of a community where I am often the only person of colour, that I should not support and go to Black Pride to celebrate with other Black people, network and make new friends! I defy anyone to dictate that we should not have Pride or on behalf of the Irish St Patricks Day. To celebrate these events does not exclude, it celebrates- the past, the present and the future, but mostly it just celebrates! Such celebrations have nothing to do with the other issues you mention Godwyn or the assumptions you make about why people engage in such celebrations!
    In any case, I would much prefer it if you didn’t generalise responses to postings and temper what you say using ‘some’, ‘likelihoods’ etc.
    Cheers Dean, hope you do make it to Black Pride and I will be the black gay woman dancing away come and say hello lol. Sonya x

  40. PS Godwyns, while it is true that different races don’t actually exist in science and we are all from the same race blah, blah, blah…. in our society and history race is a reality! Furthermore, racism is rooted in a history based on the hierarchy of the races…and by definition does indeed have a ‘colour’! Sonya

  41. Godwyn’s having just read your response to Max I now understand many things! You have lived in the UK for 7 years…that explains so much. The last seven years has seen a sea change in minority politics and experiences….I am glad you are able to benefit from struggles and abuse of those who went before you, who had no rights, who indeed fought for the rights you can enjoy living here for the last 7 years….rights to benefits, employment rights, housing NHS treatment etc. Things my parents had no entitlement too when they migrated here. I guess you never sat in a classroom ‘begging for the teacher to choose you to answer the question, until one day the penny dropped and you stopped trying. I am guessing you grew up, like me (I left the UK aged 7 returned aged 19) in a population where you already had your Barack Obama, where you knew you could do anything, be anyone you wanted too? I guess by your assessment homophobia, gender inequality, discrimination based on age or disability do not exist either? I am quite interested to know where exactly you are from originally, that you think you can decide and comment on the experiences of people who have been subjected to negative stereotyping, constantly having to question whether someone was being racists and so on… not just over the last seven years when as indicated earlier things have improved markedly but from the moment you were born and into adulthood! I suggest that these are experiences that you have never had and so you have no place to comment on those who have! By the way I misspelled your name, missed an s off in a previous posting, does that mean I am due to be strangled? Nice! Sonya

  42. Sonya I’m going to hold you to that either post on this thread or put a message on ukblackout. and nice reply to Godwin I typed a very frank and idiosyncratic message and deleted it he call us “blacks” how charming! and he dosent understand that racism is based on the perception of ” racial” superiority. I took a deep breath and let it go. I’m looking forward to reading your posts. Dean. x

  43. Sonya I did see your post 42. That Godwin need a box round him head lick some sense into him.

  44. All prides should just be done away with, they are a waste of time, waste of money and dont achieve anything.
    These are just money making excercises by people who have hidden agendas when it comes to Prides and after the deplorable Pride that Glasgow had it is no wonder many people now ask, why do we need Pride.
    You dont see the hetrosexuals mincing down the street dressed as dummies shouting from the rooftops about their sexuality, so why should gays do it.
    Being gay myself i am happy with what i am and the way i live, i do not see the need to prance about in flamboynat colours blowing whistles and attracting attention to myself.
    As for a BLACK pride, well that is just totally racist in my eyes and should be condemmed.
    This is when people start to go against other LGB people and having a BLACK pride is just alientating them from us.
    Its a disgrace and should not be repeated.

  45. andy. fcuk off

  46. Dean…go play wi yourslef you obnoxious twat…freedom of speech, if you dont like it tough titty………

  47. surely me telling you to fcuk off is freedom of speech too.


  48. GODWYNS AKA GODLOSER invited comment on his response to Max Aug 18th on his personal Blog at… I responded and he erased my second reply! So I have posted our exchange here….as this is where it all started! For more information see above and below!

    SONYA AKA SU_QUIZ…..Godwyn you may sound well informed and intelligent but the biggest fool is the one who think they are not. My assessment you are a grade A ass! Su quiz

    GODWYN AKA GODLOSER….awww… thanks for taking the time ‘Su_quiz’ (wonder if that is an identifiable name or just an un-confident cover…). But I am open to debate and intelligent discussions not to vulgar language as that suggests lack of ability to interact like human.

    SONYA AKA SU QUIZ……….Godloses, let’s be real what difference does it make what name I use we are using a medium that engenders anonymity….so your comment regarding using cover names as an indication of lack of confidence or as you put it ‘unconfident cover’ are more than a bit silly, aren’t they! You are an intelligent fool! Big words and an education do not maketh the man and never will. Besides anyone who threatens to strangle someone who misspells their name speaks volumes re the old dictum, to paraphrase, ‘scratch the surface of the civilised and the barbarian appears’…not that I even want to attribute a semblance of civilisation to such an ignorant pompous TWIT*! By the way Godloses, an ass is an animal, much like a mule, so the vulgar language you imagined is a product of your thought processes, not mine. *Please note the spelling of TWIT above and do let your imagination run free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  49. Andy, I wouldn’t even waste my time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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