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Stephen Fry attacks Independent on Sunday’s Pink List for ‘sneering’ at Louie Spence

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  1. Simon Murphy 11 Aug 2010, 11:22am

    Stephen Fry has updated his blog to say that the Gay Rogues Gallery from the Independent’s list was not written by the judges – apparently it was an Independent on Sunday journalist who wrote it without the judge’s knowledge.

    Which makes sense.

    Although considering the judging panel it would not have been surprising if they’d condemned Spence for his ‘crime’ of being camp. Amaechi is the idiot who waited until his career was over before he came out and now he encourages other sportspeople to stay in the closet. And Ben Summerskill refuses to support marriage equality for LGBT people.

    They should be in the Rogue’s Gallery themselves for their homophobia and stupidity.

  2. Simon Murphy 11 Aug 2010, 11:28am

    Fry’s Update:

    “It is axiomatic that panels and judges of prizes or compilers of lists always sit in conditions of absolute secrecy, but I have had private word of an element of the deliberations which tells me that maybe the deliberators weren’t to blame, but some Sindie journalist who took it upon him or her self to write the Rogues’ Gallery section without the deliberators knowledge or consent. Well if I have done Ben Summerskill and Clare Balding and the others who helped to put the list together then I am really sorry.”

  3. I’m massively impressed with Stephen Fry for making this really important intervention. Homophobia and misogyny within the gay community is toxic, and well done Stephen for naming it – and in such a direct and dignified fashion, too.

  4. and yet unfortunately Louie is a stereotype but many seem to be stereotyped to get fame from Tv like Alan Carr, Gok Wan etc plus many who are on tv programmes could easily find their 15 minutes of fame up but that doesn’t mean they aren’t still a success
    it would be a lot better if people didn’t need to exaggerate or be camp to be on Tv and if people could be themselves – gay, bi, lesbian, etc

  5. but Chester, Stephen’s point exactly is that some people are being themselves when they are being camp. Us queers shouldn’t have to conform to a straight idea of being ‘natural’ or ‘unexaggerated’ to get acceptance and respect.

  6. The Pink List is nothing but a joke anyway. Conspicious by its absentees, some people got a listing merely for being an Indy journo and gay. It’s a bunch of people going, ‘Who do you know who’s gay? Yeah, they’ll do’.

  7. I dislike the camp stereotype and how we are supposed to all be like that and the voice can be annoying but I still agree with Stephen Fry. We are all different, ok we need to show the world more our diversity but at the same time we can’t put down those who do follow the stereotype because that is also part of our community along with the non camp people.

  8. This is not any criticism of Louie Spence, of course, but don’t you find it annoying that it is still the camp homosexual who can best make a career for himself on TV? TV producers can be very lazy. It would be nice to see a gay man becoming famous on TV who was completely open about his sexuality from the very start and who was totally non-camp and actually rather masculine. At least it would confuse the homophobes.

  9. JohnnyH, I don’t find it annoying at all – I think it’s brilliant when gay people succeed no matter what. And being camp is also a way of being masculine… that’s what really seems to confuse the homophobes. Who says that straight people have a monopoly on defining what’s ‘rather masculine’, anyway?

  10. Stephen Fry filling Twitter with his usual verbal diarrohea….Louie Spence considered a camp idiot. Just another regular day at Rancho Gay then.

  11. The amount of homophobia in these comments is disgusting. A non camp gay man who has become rather succesful? Um, STEPHEN FRY anyone?? I mean he is the topic of this new bullatin, but maybe you missed him because your eyes were stinging from the homophobic bile you’ve been spewing all over yourself. Too busy jumping on a chance to insult members of our community than to support fry’s couragous decision. This is disgraceful.

  12. one man’s stereotype is another mans reality. stereotypes don’t exist in a vacuum, they are a fiction based on some element of truth. louie is louie, he’s real. resenting stereotypes shouldn’t lead to ridicule of the genuine article.

    there is a kind of tyranny within our community at the moment – that straight-acting straight-looking is the only acceptable option and that camp relics should go back in the closet. well f**k off girls we’re here to stay.

  13. Well done Stephen. Louie is camp if he tried to be anything else he’d be fake. The independent is now owned by an ex kgb bloke called ledbev or something he also owns the standard so don’t expect it to be our friend anymore. and the straight acting mean spirited gay homophobes should be shunned

  14. dave wainwright 11 Aug 2010, 2:10pm

    Strange isn’t it in these enlightened times that homophobia is most apparent within the LGBT community and str8 people not for the most part having a problem , RESPECT THE DIVERSITY , everybody is different , some like to ceelbrate their sexuality with humour , get over it .

  15. Good on ya, Mr Fry!

  16. It’s interesting the emotion that this has generated – not to mention accusations of homophobia. Some gay men think camp is great, but for some gay men camp is a stereotype that plays up to straight homophobia, i.e. straights can think: gays are OK because they act differently and we can recognise them. It makes gays into something comfortingly ‘other’ – nothing to do with us ‘real’ men – whilst at the same time allowing straights to congratulate themselves on their ‘tolerance’.

    I like camp, and many straight homophobes are outraged at camp men, of course, since they violate gender roles, but I think the non-camp queer probably has the potential to disturb homophobes more.

  17. If I thought these pink lists had any value I’d put Stephen Fry in the Rogues Gallery. Remember this comment?

    When Jan Moir wrote her infamous piece for the Daily Mail, Fry was quick to arrange a campaign against her. But what about when the BBC asked “Should homosexuals face execution?” – he kept quiet. Could that be anything to do with not wanting to upset his employer? As David Cameron once said: too many tweets makes a twat.

  18. I feel the need to leap to Mr Fry’s defence. I wouldn’t agree with all his opinions but I think it is perhaps a little ungenerous to assume that he would have ‘kept quiet’ on an issue just so as not to ‘upset his employer’. Stephen Fry is a lovely man: witty, erudite, openminded, civilised. I can’t think of a better role model for *men*, let alone gay men.

  19. Johnny were not driven by the same needs most hetrosexual couples get together to have kids. Whats wrong with hetrosexual people being different from us?

  20. Isn’t Derren Brown gay and from what I have seen of him, he seems quite macho (ish)

  21. “When Jan Moir wrote her infamous piece for the Daily Mail, Fry was quick to arrange a campaign against her. But what about when the BBC asked “Should homosexuals face execution?”

    To be fair one was homophobic and one was a question to initiate a debate. They can’t really be compared as equals.

    So many men and women within the gay community itself have an issue with camp men. I think a lot of them think it’s an act – I don’t.

    People are just who they happen to be. We don’t make a conscious decision about our behaviour as we don’t about our sexuality.

    As for the ‘judges’ on that panel. With the exception of Claire Balding I think they’re all f***nuts to be honest with you.

  22. Mihangel apYrs 11 Aug 2010, 5:59pm

    the “problem” with camp gay celebs is that the str8s see them as being what “gay” is.

    We have too few gay guys how are like a lot of us (and Fry doesn’t count: he’s affected in an entirely different sort of way!)

  23. let me guess mihangle you want to be normal more like bland were not all the same thank god lets enjoy our differences ffs

  24. Celebrating diverity.
    Yes, I’m all for it but it really does irk me when some of my LGBT friends are as unaccepting as many homophobes when it come to LGBT diversity.

  25. Oops – I meant ‘Celebrating diversity’

  26. Before the 1970s gay men had to hide away generally. They tended to despise ‘camp’ men for two reasons; 1) They were jealous of their apparent freedom to express themselves and, 2) They were afraid they themseleves could be exposed as homosexual if they were seen together. So they were looked down upon and ridiculed. Today, however, to see ‘camp’ artists on TV is a celebration of gayness generally. We don’t have to fear the ‘camp’ guys. Contrary to some comments on this string, the heterosexual community is aware that all gay men are not ‘camp’. My only conclusion can be that those of you (gay or straight) who are disturbed by ‘camp’ behaviour should look into themselves and ask “Why?”

    Diversity rules!

  27. Mihangel apYrs 11 Aug 2010, 8:37pm

    oh Dean
    how wonderful of you to say that:
    now let’s see
    a founder member of the gay group in my uni all those years ago
    chair of my office’s LGBT network, facing senior mgt trying to keep them on side,

    various other groups pushing equality.

    So yes very bland (and just what have you done?)

    I don’t give a stuff about how camp or affected so-called gay celebs are EXCEPT it gives the str8s the opportunity to paint all queer men as limp-wristed mincers who are not to be allowed by their kids, but easily mockable. A stereotype is so useful for scapegoating, or being as a “safe” option; afterall “you can spot them a mile off”

  28. the kind of people who categorise are not the people you should give damn about.

  29. Its hardly a surprise that camp gays have large media representation. Very often they are “showy” individuals that love the spotlight. Bigger personalities are always more likely to make it big in on the small screen. I don’t see why people should have a problem with this.

  30. Fry needs to get off the high horse on this, camp gay effeminate men are not being attacked, this guy is, just him… And personally I find him annoying and over the top, but I choose to ignore him, and that’s my problem with these lists they bitch at people making a fuss when you can just not pay attention to them, sure listing all the good lgbt celebs do is worth having but we know the bad stuff let’s not make a big deal of it.

  31. Louie is a manic depressive, perfect fodder for TV companies to make money. Wind him up and let him go I saw him for the first time on Top gear and he got a lot of abuse from Johnny vaughn and clarkson humiliated him by walking away. Not very nice and you guys are just as bad

  32. Simon Murphy 12 Aug 2010, 12:09pm

    It saddens me to see that when it comes to camp gay men or butch lesbians, that the most homophobic responses to them, come from other gay people.

    Who started the Stonewall Riots? Oh yeah it was the drag queens, trannies and butch dykes. The Stereotypes in fact.

    This hatred and discomfort felt towards the gay ‘stereotypes’ has always existed. In 1970 the Gay Liberation Front was founded in 1970 in response to the Stonewall Riots, and the drag queens were immediately told they were not welcome. Talk about ingratitude.

    While the gay community engages in such toxic homophobia and misogyny towards the gay ‘stereotypes’ then we’ll never achieve equality.

    Do you think Stephen Green of the Christian Voice cares whether or not gay men are like Gareth Thomas or Louis Spence? No he doesn’t. Our enemies hate us because we are gay. Not because we are butch or camp. The sooner the people learn this the better.

  33. Dean, the Top Gear “insults” of this guy (whoever he is)were clearly scripted. Does not make them any more accceptable, and indeed, if this guy (whoever he is) participated in the gay-baiting, which clearly appears to be the case from the play acting between him and Hammond, then (a) he can’t complain about it – though I don’t think he has, others have (b) more fool and shame him for playing up to the camp stereotype.

  34. “of Pineapple Dance Studio fame” – eh?

  35. I’ve just googled this guy and 1. it seems he is “famous” on cable television and 2. he looks cute, at least in still photos.

  36. the only issue I have is that more non-camp people are famous for stuff, I don’t care that Louie is camp but I think more variety of people would help and not just comedy bitches

  37. dave a robin relian owner complained that his car got tipped over by drunks after seeing clarkson do it on top gear so laughing at the camp guy will have an effect

  38. Dean I was kind of agreeing with you! My point was that the whole routine with ….whatever he is called… was scripted, and that he was playing his part – (very) obviously! Hence more shame on him. But then, how else would he increase his erm… fame? And by the way, the Reliant piece was hilarious in my view – even if it induced a Robin bashing.

  39. I’m sure Louie is very camp, but I also think he plays to the gallery, in much the same way as Alan Carr etc. If these people want to accentuate their gay persona, that is entirely up to them, but don’t complain when you get flak for it.

    I think many on here are confusing the fact that because the guy is camp means people dislike him for being gay, rather than simply not liking the effeminacy etc. The two factors are not mutually exclusive.

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