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Man’s jaw broken in Merseyside homophobic attack

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  1. Graham Anderson 28 Jul 2010, 5:38pm

    Wow, I can’t find any information about this on the Merseyside Police site, the Bootle Times or the Liverpool Echo.

    Marsh Lane is the very encylopædia definition of “rough area” though.

  2. I couldn`t agree more with IgnacioD,!The best way is to fight back! No so long ago, about 9 teenagers went to a well known cruising spot in Surrey and started intimidating fellow cruisers, I went back to my car got my torch, a mate of mine joined me, and we went, two against 9! Guess what? they all run off back to their cars and drove off! We should not let people intimidate us!

  3. Some people would not be able to ‘fight back’. I suggest that we all carry defensive ‘amunition’.
    A legal spray stain can really throw people off their guard which gives time to exit. It also stains their faces for easy I.D. by the Police.

  4. Vincent Ravencroft 28 Jul 2010, 8:37pm

    @Alfie: I liked Ur comment ….. @ Ian Bower: I liked what U said about carrying spray stain to use as self-defense, and how it makes it easy for the police to identify the attackers … I’m going to google spray stain and see if it is sold here in the states, because I know we have pepper spray mace, but I don’t know about the spray stain

  5. The problem with the “fight back” tactic is, simply, that you’re all out numbered. Even if it were 50/50 (gays and straights), you’re going to have an easier time rallying haters to beat gays than vice-versus.
    Of course fight back if someone attacks you, and stick up for others who are being attacked, but do not lose the police’s respect for us all.

  6. Hopefully these thugs will be caught and punished.

  7. Why fight crime with crime? It only lowers yourself to there level! I learnt to run very fast when I was at school, a simple legal deterrent spray should do the trick.

  8. When my partners jaw was broken (in 2 places) in 2002, in a similar homophobic attack in Cov City Centre, under the watchful eyes of CCTV, the police did ….. nothing! Although the offenders were well known dealers and probably police informers.

    I hope the 27 year old man is given adequate support over the coming months. My man, despite being socially confident and well liked, woud suffer panic attacks whenever going out in public (even daytime)for many months.

  9. Is Liverpool the most dangerous place in Britain in which to be gay.

    Pretty much all reports on Pink News relating to Liverpool seem to involve homophobic assaults?

  10. liverpool happens to be a major city, so news like this is nothing new, as with london and the other big cities! Homophobic hate crime is on the increase in almost all major cities in the uk, with Liverpool’s usually being more high profile as it’s a much easier city to kick in the balls as seen time and time again on these threads.

  11. “Homophobic hate crime is on the increase in almost all major cities in the uk, with Liverpool’s usually being more high profile as it’s a much easier city to kick in the balls as seen time and time again on these threads.”

    Is it just bad PR that Liverpool is getting?

    I don’t see reports on here every few months describing serious homophobic assaults and murders in Birmingham for example.

    I do read these reports about Liverpool all the time.

  12. it would be a good idea for pink news to publish actual figures for the number of hate crime incidents in each city region so we could compare it accurately without assuming one city is worse than another, but finding this type of statistic seems to be hard work (I’ve just tried to google it). However, I have noticed an overwhelming assumption on the pink news threads that Liverpool would be the worst, and yes I do think it’s down to bad PR. Most of the time, I feel it’s down to the old ignorant stereotype that Liverpool’s an overgrown rubbish dump ridden with scallies in tracksuits, and this type of negative attitude would naturally tarnish any honest debate about the actual number of incidents in Liverpool compared with cities of equal status and size.

  13. The police release statistics on hatecrimes each year don’t they?

    Is there a geographic breakdown on homophobic hatecrime and is it possible to see how bad the problem is in Liverpool compared to other comparably sized cities.

    I don’t think it’s a case that Liverpool suffers from bad PR – I think there seems to be a serious problem with homophobic violence there – James Causer; that policeman; this new report etc etc.

  14. I’m trying to find some stats for the last year, but it’s hard work. I genuinely want to know as I’m interested in the subject.

    Google “Homophobic attacks: A rise in hate?” from the Socialist Review (December 2009)

    “In Liverpool, where a survey of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people found 59 percent had experienced a hate crime, over 2,000 people gathered in response to the gay-bashing of James Parkes, who was attacked by dozens of people as he left a gay club in October and suffered multiple skull fractures. Figures from a number of major cities also show a rise in reported attacks on LGBT people this year: 20 percent in London, 32 percent in Glasgow, 40 percent in Liverpool and 63 percent in Greater Manchester.”

    It seems from this article that the problem is worse in Greater Manchester, leading me back to the suspicion that it’s down to PR and how bad news in Liverpool seems to just reinforce old stereotypes with no genuine statistics to back it up.

  15. It’s partly bad PR to blame the.

    But even using those rates Liverpool’s rates of homophobic assaults are considerably higher than Glasgow (which also suffers from economic problems) or London.

  16. hmmm, I do see what you’re saying, but I think the only way to have a fair debate would be to find actual number of incidents in the last 12 months per capita, in each city region. Don’t forget an increase does not necessarily mean increase in incidents, it can also mean increased public confidence in reporting them, and forces like Merseyside Police have worked overtime since Michael Causer and James Parkes, hence they’re more likely to report a crime as homophobic in it’s early stages of investigation. Same goes for the major city regions.

  17. Liverpool suffers from religion in a big way: the influence of the Catholic sect is very high there and there is one of the highest proportions of RC and CofE faith schools (ie academies of homophobia) in the country. And the recently re-elected MP for Bootle is a well known Papist bigot.

    All that contributes.

  18. Gary Everett 29 Jul 2010, 12:08pm

    One of the main reasons for homophobic hate crime is the endemic levels of homophobic bullying in lots of UK schools. The problem is worse now than 20 years ago and the NUT have carried out extensive research confirming that it needs urgent action. Lots of the research was carried out in Gtr Manchester, Lancs and Merseyside and perhaps it should be rolled out nationally. The main problem is many people do not report a hate crime and therefore you can never really assess how bad or widespread the problem is. Lets take the East End of London, there have been numerous violent homophobic attacks and never seems to hit the papers or do you read much online. Perhaps the way news is gathered and reported has also alot to do with it. Liverpool is like most cities with its fair share of social problems but its no more homophobic than Manchester, Belfast or London

  19. Liverpool has the most backward gay scene I’ve experienced in any city in this country. It’s honestly laughable, compared to london or manchester it’s like going back in time 30+ years. It is also the most homophobic city I’ve ever lived in. Too much christianity, too much machismo bravado, too many drug dealers, too many gangs, too many uneducated catholic chavs, but most of all too much ‘scouse’ hetero pride – when they have nothing to be proud of. Paul’s comments are typical, Liverpudlian’s just can’t admit they have problems in their city, and until they do they’ll never sort them out. And unlike Paul is saying, you don’t report crime in liverpool cause you know the police won’t be able to do anything because the liverpudlian’s all stick together and would never ‘grass’ on a fellow scouser. So start being honest about your city Paul.

  20. mike, liverpool 29 Jul 2010, 1:46pm

    well jay, like it or loathe it, you’ve just proven paul’s point. Do you have any stats to back up your argument? Perhaps a comparison between the no of homophobic incidents in Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, Newcastle and Leeds in the last financial year? All we have so far seems to be your rather unfortunate rambles about catholic chavs?! Is this a fantasy of yours maybe?

  21. Ian Bower & rhuboy I agree with you both. I still think that self defence classes and sprays are good for all gays to have and carry.

  22. Please don’t confuse self-defence with ability. Even if one was to carry one of these sprays I doubt many would know how to use them effectively or actually be given the time to spray a would be assailant. A well placed headbutt is quicker than a spray can.

    There is nothing wrong with learning to defend oneself but please don’t feel empowered to take on hordes with 6 lessons of karate – because a martial artist I can tell you the best tactic is to run.

  23. Yeah mike, and like it or loathe it, you’ve just proven one of my points – that Scousers just cant handle anything negative being said about their ‘beloved’ city, which is why things don’t change there.

    My other point is, from my experience, liverpool is way behind manchester or london in regard to its gay community – are you seriously telling me the gay bars/clubs/meeting places in liverpool are anywhere near what you find in manchester of london? You might not like it, but all you have to do is visit/live in all three cities and see the facts for yourself – I’ve lived in all three cities – have you? And like I said, statistics would mean nothing, people are so scared they don’t even report crimes in liverpool (unless you get carted off to the hospital) – if u were a real scouser you would know that is true, so stop trying to bullsh1t. Liverpool’s gay community face more problems than the homos in manchester or london, I wish it wasn’t that way, but the sooner you accept that, the sooner you can do start doing something about it. Cause btw, some people are trying to do something about it, I clicked on gary everett’s link above, it seems he’s trying to address the problem. And this year, 2010, they have their first gay pride (the first pride in manchester was 1990 – the first pride in london was in 1972). So if these events continue and you stop hiding in dark alleyways in piss stained bars (the curzon) and saying there’s nothing wrong with liverpool maybe in the future a younger gay community can enjoy the city they are born in and not have to move out to london or manchester like I did.

  24. I have no idea whether Liverpool is actually the most homophobic city in the UK.

    However it is clear that there are more reports about serious homophobic assaults coming from Liverpool than any other city of comparable size.

    Perhaps this is just bad PR.

    But we cannot jump to that automatic conclusion.

    Perhaps Liverpool is genuinely the worst place in Britain in which to be gay. If that is the case then that needs to be acknowledged and something done about it.

  25. mike, liverpool 29 Jul 2010, 4:37pm

    jay, the first gay pride in liverpool was actually 1979, and there were several in the 1990’s. Queer culture has been around long before 2010 would you believe, and the city has held Homotopia and Outsiders for the last 6 years. And for the record, there’s a new gay bar opening in Liverpool tonight, and another one in a week’s time. This doesn’t look like signs of a struggling gay scene to me?

    Do you really think your negative comments help a city’s gay community which is growing in confidence by the day? I really wish you would quote some credible stats on crime so we can get a picture of how Liverpool actually compares, rather than using phrases such as “unless you get carted off to the hospital” as your evidence?

  26. although i understand some of the comments about fighting back – i think some of them are very discriminatory – chav, rough area …
    gay guys live all over you know – and yes it can be tough but please dont let class war descend on gay rights

    as for cruising places – yeah its fun but also good to remind that it is easy meat …jungle rules

    i don’t live in the uk but i am a brit – here we have cruising clubs – fun without danger

    it’s not about going underground just about being prudent. resistance is all about judging backlash

    i’ve been queer bashed and also involved in gay rights groups so i ain’t talking abstractly –
    in my opinion there’s nothing better for advancing gay rights than being as open and as easy with as many people as you can. the more people know a poof, the less menacing

    as for gay scene – well internet changes lives and may also affect popping out for a pint

    good luck to you all – off to my self defense lesson now :-)

  27. Gary Everett 29 Jul 2010, 8:54pm

    Jay talks about ‘scenes’ and sort of misses the point that most homophobic attacks happen off the ‘scene’..thats a hard fact. Not sure how equality and inclusion and challenging crime go hand in hand with how progressive a gay scene is. Brighton, Manchester, London all have big problems with homophobic violence but so much is unreported given the mistrust of the criminal justice system, the CPS have a very bad record of securing convictions and lots of queers dont trust the police. Very complex issues and not something that can be really analysed or evaluated by a headline on the internet.

  28. Chris Lowry 30 Jul 2010, 12:22pm

    Jay – how long ago did you actually live in Liverpool?

    I am not originally from the city and have lived here for nearly 10 years now. I have found it to be the most welcoming and diverse city. It does as Gary pointed out have a number of social issues, and the people involved in carrying out these incidents as I understand are from the more socially deprived parts of the city. I hope that the fantastic growth that the city has seen over the past few years(not just within the gay quarter) eventually spreads outwards towards these areas and encourages regeneration and most inmportantly education! Dont base your views on Liverpool from one rather loud and negative individual – come and see the city for yourself and make your judgements!

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