2 things are needed for Ireland (North and South) to reach full equality:
1. Access to Civil marriage should be equalised for same sex couples
2. The religious exemption from equality laws needs to be scrapped in both places.
Then we’ll have equality.
I’d disappointed to see Senator Norris celebtrating the Civil Partnership Bill.
I hope he is not condoning homophobic discrimination just to get some votes!
Stephen, that wouldn’t give equality. It would still allow recognition of the religious marriages of straight couples while the religious marriages of gay couples would have no recognition. I am not religious, but so many people seem to forget that many gay people are. Gay-friendly churches should be free to have the wedding ceremonies they preform legally recognised.
Dromio, some religious denominations will perform same-sex marriages if that right is ever allowed. In all ten countries with full civil marriage equality, the civil marriage law is gender neutral and does NOT compel any religious cult to officiate or recognise a same-sex marriage. The Quakers are one such denomination that will marry same-sex partners. Personally, I don’t care for religious ceremonies of any kind, I don’t see the relevance to validate a marriage. In France, for example, arguably the best marriage system in the world for straight couples, the civil marriage is the only one recognised by the state, the religous component is voluntary and not binding. We should adopt that system in Ireland and the UK, further diminishing the power of the cults over our lives and rights. In any event, religious cults do NOT own marriage, not civil marriage at least,so who really cares what they do or do not recognise?
Senator Norris was the person who drafted and sponsored the Civil Partnership bill through, he was also the person who took his government to the European Court and won forcing Ireland to decriminalise homosexuality. His contribution to gay rights in Ireland is second to none.
In his lecture and in the participation in Pride talks back the panel question and answer session afterwards he expressed his view that civil marriage would be the next step and that he supported that. He also expressed his view, as a committed Anglican, that he felt churches should be able to perform services if they wished.
This is the work to be done, but he did and should celebrate the progress that has been made.
“This is the work to be done, but he did and should celebrate the progress that has been made.”
Well said. I can never understand why some people think gay marriage is a panacea for all the equality issues facing gay men. The real battle is in society, point in case, South Africa has same sex marriage, but societally is still a grossly homophobic country to live your life in.
Same sex marriage is but a tiny part of it, and for most people the (albeit) flawed Civil Partnership is a tremendous step for Ireland, and StephenC’s angry attacks against CP are becoming common place on this site, and thankfully are just internet rants. I sincerely hope that the introduction of full civil marriage some day cures him of all the anger he feels at the tremendous “injustices” he clearly experiences daily.
Let’s all remember 1 very important thing – Civil partnerships were created solely and specifically to deny same sex couples access to civil marriage.
Let’s not kid ourselves about their origins.
To deny law abiding, tax paying citizens the right to enter a civil contract solely on their sexual orientation is homophobic discrimination.
And insulting my motives (like Will is in the habit of doing) doesn’t alter the fact that civil partnerships are discriminatory.
I’m glad that progress has been made.
But Ireland is running the risk of becoming apathetic on the issue of equality like the UK has.
Britain also has a civil partnership apartheid regime and despite repeated polls showing that most gay people support and want FULL legal equality for their relationships, the political will is now lacking and the LGBT community are told repeatedly that we should be satisfied with being treated as 2nd class citizens.
And it is shockingly offensive and incredibly selfish for certain LGBT people (Will for example) to tell other LGBT people (who are dissatisfied with being treated as 2nd class citizens in the eyes of the law), to ‘put up and shut up’. How dare he? Does he believe that if I refuse to grovel in thanks for CP legislation that his own ability to get CP’ed will be affected? Who knows?
Those of us who want full equality are now being branded ‘troublemakers’ for not being suitably grovelling and meek as certain LGBT people would like us to be. Self-interest is THOSE people’s motivation I suspect.
Is it Will? Is self-interest your REAL reason for not supporting legal equality for same-sex relationships.
So much for an LGBT community.As for religious marriage – well who cares about that? Religions have been discriminating for years – try getting a catholic marriage if you’re divorced.
“And it is shockingly offensive and incredibly selfish for certain LGBT people (Will for example) to tell other LGBT people (who are dissatisfied with being treated as 2nd class citizens in the eyes of the law), to ‘put up and shut up’. How dare he?”
LOL! Pathetic. I did nothing of the sort.
I’m just sick of YOU telling everyone ELSE they’re second class citizens because they rightly celebrate a historic change in Irish legislature. If you believe you are “second class” then you clearly enjoy playing the poor victim, then good for you, but some of us have more self worth than you do.
“Is it Will? Is self-interest your REAL reason for not supporting legal equality for same-sex relationships.”
This statement is just stupid, so I wont address it. Typically anger and bluster with no substance or basis in fact. Well done.
“Self-interest is THOSE people’s motivation I suspect.”
So, precisely what IS the LACK of self interest on your behalf in getting full marriage rights? What an utterly stupid thing to say. Of COURSE you are self interested in marriage, unless you are choosing not to avail of it? Your statement are bordering of childish and petty, and are a delightful show of your stupidity.
I however, have less self interest than I do pragmatism. Given you have to make up stuff to make you point, well, speaks volumes. Didn’t get enough CAO points for college, or didn’t you feel “equal” enough to get a good education? And I sincerely doubt that any civil marriage will make you even remotely feel equal, becuase you have some serious self esteem issues, but don’t paint the rest of us with your brush, some of us are reasonable and civilised people. Not to mention a good anger management course would do you the world of good.
Give how you insulted people (including a retired man in a gay relationship for over 30 eyars, if I fremember correctly) on a previous thread because they celebrated CP’s, you don’t deserve equality or recognition, not because you are gay, but becuase you are not willing to accept other people’s right to self determination. Equality is a right only for those willing to uphold the right of others, and you are as offensive as you are ill-informed and stupid. You were laughed off the other thread for your stupid comments, and this on is proving no different.
But feel free to rant away in your ‘erudite’ state of delusional madness, it clearly makes you feel one bit less the pathetic liar and buffoon you seem to be. Who am I to stop you….
Belfast Pride actually started last weekend – our official launch was on Saturday the 24th, but we also had a short film festival in the week before that. Visit http://www.belfastpride.com to find out more.
Will seems like hes up to his usual bitchy tricks , all insults and no substance. I suspect if he wandered outside the safety of south east coastal Dublin he would get a good kicking which he rightly deserves.
I am quite impressed by the pace of gay rights in Ireland over the last 15 years or so , though other social areas like mental health are fairly backward. Community attitudes are appalling but with the so called educated classes being as enlightened as Will we have a long way to go.
I guess gay marriage is the ideal, but to get national civil partnerships before some other more liberal societies is a great step forward. I guess there is hope for that dreary little rock homeland of mine.
“Will seems like hes up to his usual bitchy tricks , all insults and no substance”
Ah, ‘victim’ the bleeding heart racist is back with some erudite comments. How wonderful for us all. So, still insane? Good for you.
I agree with you Will, 100%…..one thing to cosider about these negative screaming nellies, who all sound as though they work for The Daily Wail, Abuse is the last refuge of the ignorant, and the more abuse meted out the more you know your right and they KNOW your right.
I think gays are cool. O-o