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British man wins French civil partnership tax victory

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  1. I knew the French weren’t the fastest in the west but honesly the law was changed back in May 2009 and it’s now July 2010, what took them so long to implement their own law… it’s ridiculous. Does this mean that British CPs have to go to solicitors to fight for all the other rights that PACSed couples have in France and British CPs still don’t have. What is the foriegn office doing about this delay, I thought it was on the coalition govt’s agenda to get worldwide recognition of the CP, just a tax victory and nothiong else isn’t exactly recognition in France!!! What about other EU countries, can someone tell us where we can go and live please and not end up with a massive inheritance tax bill if our partner dies????

  2. de Villiers 26 Jul 2010, 3:09pm

    > Can someone tell us where we can go and live please and not end up with a massive inheritance tax bill if our partner dies?

    This is more about differential treatment than the level of inheritance tax per se.

  3. Pathetic and offensive that he had to go through this.

    If he had been allowed to legally marry this would not have arisen.

    Civil marriage equality will resolve these types of issues.

    It’s time Britain too steps to ensure that gay couples are equal in the eyes of the law.

    Apartheid is wrong!

  4. I agree , the Dutch gay marriage had been recognised by the French minister of justice back in 2005.

    Villiers – that’s what I mean , he got treated differently than his equivalent French counterparts and instead of being exempt from inheritance tax, he got lumbered with a 60% inheritance tax … my other point was what other differential treatment are we being applied to not only in France but the rest of Europe and the world and what is the govt doing about it – bring in gay marriage for starters and then this time do what the lab govt should have done when the thought of CPs and ensure that the rest of these discriminatory buggers in Europe recognise it …..

  5. This is why we MUST have marriage equality. ANy gay person who isn’t fighting for marriage equality is just an uncle tom- just like that homophobic lesbian Australian MP Penny Wong- where is the news coverage of her misdeeds?

  6. Dromio – fill us in, I’m an aussie brit on long hols in uk – penny wong – another labour homophobe from australia and another fugly labour woman mp/senator – lesbian/misdeeds? Am I right she can’t be kicked out this time becuase the senat is not dissolved as well?

  7. de Villiers 26 Jul 2010, 8:46pm

    > If he had been allowed to legally marry this would not have arisen. Civil marriage equality will resolve these types of issues.

    France would recognise a UK gay civil marriage as a PACS and not as a marriage.

  8. de villiers – see response by minister of justice on dutch marriage – gay – they are recognised as marriages

    http://questions.assemblee-nationale.fr/q12/12-41533QE.htm

    Le garde des sceaux fait connaître à l’honorable parlementaire qu’au sein de l’Union européenne le droit du mariage reste entièrement régi par les lois nationales. S’agissant des effets en France de mariages entre deux hommes ou deux femmes conclus dans des pays de l’Union européenne, c’est-à-dire en Belgique, aux Pays-Bas et, prochainement, en Espagne, cette question est susceptible d’être appréhendée au regard des rattachements classiques du droit international privé. Ainsi, un mariage homosexuel belge ou néerlandais sera envisagé en France en fonction du statut personnel des personnes concernées et de leur loi nationale.

    ie international private law – marriage is a marriage whatever sex!

  9. de Villiers 26 Jul 2010, 10:04pm

    Yes – that is right. But my partner is French and, as I understand the response, a civil marriage in the UK between us would not be recognised as such in France as the national law of the country of both spouses would be relevant.

  10. de Villiers 26 Jul 2010, 10:07pm

    Sorry – I expressed that incorrectly. My partner is English but I remain French. As I understand it, a civil marriage in the UK between us would not be recognised as such in France as the national law of both spouses would be relevant.

  11. Yep , that’s right – if one partner is French then , he either (or used to) loses his nationailty if he decides to become ie British and therefore his marriage would be recognised sinced both would now be British or he remains French and therefore will not have his marriage recognised since in French law French gay people can not get married, they can not register their marriage in their birth/life certificate – confusing/unfair – yes – you should really take it up with some of the guys that have ben fighting for the change to recognise CP in France

    BUT if both partners are foreign ie both English and they entered into a gay marriage (presuming it became law here) then that marriage would be recognised as a marriage. If they remain as CPs then that CP would be regarded as the equivalent of a French PACS. Therefore my point is that in France (and presumably they are not alone on this) gay marriages are recognised as marriages and CPs are recognisedas the equivalent of their own CP or in a lot of countries there is no equivalent to what we have here, something that is merely open to gays and so similar to a marriage, they simply can’t eqaute to anything they have and therefore you have NO rights at all!

  12. de villiers – from your comment 7 – gay marriages WILL NEVER be equated to a French PACS in France only CP will – both are a lesser, inferior partnership to marriage!

  13. de Villiers 27 Jul 2010, 11:54am

    I think that I can never have anything higher than a PACS in France, even if there were civil marriage in the UK and I entered into that with my current CP.

    In France, a PACS is inferior to marriage. It is worth noting that marriage in France is entirely civil and secular. It must take place in the town hall and be conducted by the mayor or their representative. There is no religious content. A person can have a service afterwards in a church performed by a priest but it has no legal standing.

    A PACS is also not gay marriage. It can be entered into by heterosexuals. So in terms of the freedoms available, heterosexual people have the freedom to enter and not to enter marriage and the freedom to enter and not to enter a PACS. Homosexual people have the freedom not to enter marriage but not the freedom to enter it and the freedom to enter and not to enter a PACS.

    In the UK, the situation is different. A CP is open only to homosexuals (or those at least who wish to maintain the appearance of a homosexual relationship). It is not open to heterosexuals. It therefore has the appearance of a gay marriage on equal terms to a heterosexual marriage. A French PACS cannot have this because it is open to heterosexuals in addition to civil marriage – so that the former is seen below the latter.

    In the UK court decisions, also, the judges have declared that CPs are equal to and have all the rights, responsibilities, benefits and advantages of civil marriage save the name: Wilkinson v (1) Katzinger (2) Attorney General and Lord Chancellor (2007) 1 FLR 295; [2006] EWHC 2022 (Fam).

    France is socially much more conservative than the UK. The right does not support any gay rights – that is the domain of the left. And even on the left, all the gay deputés are in the closet. It would be unthinkable for a Minister of the centre-right government (or even a Minister in a socialist government) to attend a Pride March in the way that Nick Herbert did in Poland.

  14. de villiers – but as I have been trying to tell you marriages are recognised as marriages in some countries (gay or not) and as such would have a higher prestige. CPs are considered as PACS in France and are therefore inferior so the court case takes no account whatsoever of the international aspect of the partnership. CP and marriages are treated differently say in France they are NOT THE SAME AS MARRIAGE in all respects and never will be. They are 2 seperate laws. No account is taken of the prestige of the word marriage both abroad and in the UK.

    As far as I know there are at least 2 out gay minister in Sarkozy’s rght govt… but I don’t know whether they attended pride or not…I agree gay marriage is unlikely in France until the socialist get back in power which seems to be the complete opposite in the UK, where if lab came back into power it would be very unlikely we would get gay marriage here!!!

  15. de Villiers 28 Jul 2010, 4:50pm

    > but as I have been trying to tell you marriages are recognised as marriages in some countries (gay or not) and as such would have a higher prestige

    Yes, I think that’s probably right.

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