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Government plans to stop Pope arrest

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  1. “Our commitment to our international obligations and to ensuring that there is no impunity for those accused of crimes of universal jurisdiction is unwavering.”

    The pope is promoting genocide in Africa thanks to his murderous campaign to deny Aids ravaged Africa, access to condoms.

    Why SHOULDN’T Ratzinger – former member of Hitler Youth – be arrested for his crimes.

    “The Pope will be visiting the UK between September 16th and 19th. Today, it was reported that an estimated 70,000 people will attend an open air Mass in Birmingham at the end of his visit.”

    Let’s make sure sure that at least half of these 70,000 are gay. Is it going to be free access?

    It would be a wonderful opportunity for a gay kiss-in.

  2. The Pope was never going to be arrested, outside the fevered dreams of the handful of anti-Catholic loons who like to rant about “genocide” in the context of the Church calling for abstinence from extra-marital relations. As for organising a “gay kiss-in”: good luck with that.

  3. Mihangel apYrs 23 Jul 2010, 1:30pm

    ‘Mr Clarke said: “Our commitment to our international obligations and to ensuring that there is no impunity for those accused of crimes of universal jurisdiction is unwavering….”

    my arse. It’s all about protecting “friends” but prosecuting “enemies”, and has nothing to do with integrity or justice. Just like politics

  4. Mihangel apYrs 23 Jul 2010, 1:33pm

    P.S
    yesterday we saw how the CPS decides cases, slowly; and in support of the Establishment.

    (RIP Mr Thomlinson, the coppers now have a license to kill

  5. “As for organising a “gay kiss-in”: good luck with that. ”

    It will be easy.

    Unless the pope’s gig is by invitation only then it will be available to anyone.

    Even if it is by invitation only, there will be ways and means of getting an invite.

    I am sure the organisations of survivors of child sex abuse by catholic priests are already on the case. They will be out in force as well to remind people how Ratzinger was directly involved in protecting paedophile priests.

    Josef Ratzinger – former member of Hitler Youth and promoter of Aids genocide in Africa is NOT welcome in Britain.

    Has the catholic cult confirmed they will be paying ALL the security costs of his visit yet?

  6. The Pope can expect a very warm welcome to Britain, especially from some of our radio and TV broadcasters.

  7. ” “The Pope will be visiting the UK between September 16th and 19th. Today, it was reported that an estimated 70,000 people will attend an open air Mass in Birmingham at the end of his visit.”

    Let’s make sure sure that at least half of these 70,000 are gay. Is it going to be free access?

    It would be a wonderful opportunity for a gay kiss-in.”

    The only way you’d get 35000 gays in one place is if you renamed it Birmingham Pride… lol

  8. So the tory party have now begun to show their true homophobic colors and protect homophobes by bringing in new laws. Hope all you gay tories are happy.

  9. StephenC – the Holy Father’s extremely welcome. There will always be some malcontents who don’t like the fact he’s in any given country, but he’s coming as the Queen’s guest, not yours. And yes, the ceremonies are invitation-only, so I suspect you may struggle to get tens of thousands to attend your “kiss-in”. Still, do try to come along – you might learn something.

  10. Read a novel called On This Rock by Dave Leonard, it’ll tell you all you need to know about the Catholic Church

  11. Bob: “the Holy Father’s extremely welcome”

    Really?

    Don’t you think however that he deserves to be charged with his crime of offering protection over generations to child rapists?

    Don’t you think however that he deserves to be charged for incitement to hatred against women and gay people?

    Don’t you think however that he deserves to be charged with crimes against humanity for his promotion of Aids in Africa?

    And ordinary British taxpayers who do not hate women or gay people and who do not welcome paedopphile protectors should not have to foot the bill for his visit.

    So people thinking caps on – how does one get in invite to Ratzinger’s gig in Birmingham? It can’t be that difficult.

  12. @Bob … so let me get this straight. You think that the Pope is a blameless figure of enlightenment who should be welcomed to the UK by one and all? What exactly do you expect us to learn from him?

    I have held off commenting on any Pope-related articles thus far, however i feel now is the time to put my two pence worth into the discussion.

    I don’t know how anyone, devout Catholic or not, can defend the actions/sentiments of the Pope/Catholic Church. Regardless of whether or not you believe in God and the bible (which I believe while ridiculous, is up to the individual), how do you justify his refusal to allow condom use, his covering up of paedophilia and his hatred towards homosexuals? Furthermore, as a Catholic (i’m presuming u are?) how can you justify the use of taxpayers money to fund this trip? Especially at a time of such economic turmoil. Surely if Catholics want to see him, they should fund the trip? (or better yet let the Vatican coffers take the hit, it’s not like they can’t afford it) >>> Yes Bob, these are direct question to you (and anyone else who feels the same).

  13. Ratzinger’s hatespeech against women and gay people is horrific but they are not technically crimes.

    His protection of paedophiles over generation is a crime however. Harbouring a criminal is a crime.

    And his promotion of Aids in Africa is a crime against humanity.

    He is a despicable scumbag who deserves to spend the rest of his miserable life in jail.

  14. I do not support them, but we cannot blame Tories for this, it would have happened under labour too…

  15. StephenC – no, because I don’t think he’s guilty of any such “crimes”, nor do I think he has incited any such “hatred”. There are plenty of female and homosexual Catholics who don’t feel hated; you might find the recent profile of Eve Tushnet in the New York Times (she’s a lesbian Catholic, so a woman and gay!) interesting.

    DT – if you want to understsnd the Catholic position on contraception, you could do a lot worse than read this essay by one of the twentieth century’s leading philosophers, Elizabeth Anscombe. The Pope doesn’t “hate” homosexuals; the Catechism of the Catholic Church, that he played a major part in preparing, states unambiguously that gays

    must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

    You might not like the Church’s view of homosexual activity, but to call it “hatred” of gay people is just to engage in straw-man argumentation. As for your final question: let me answer with a question or two. Do you think Catholics who consider abortion to be the killing of innocent life should be required to pay through taxation for NHS provision of abortion services? That Muslims who consider the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to be illegal wars should be required to pay through taxation for defence spending? The Catholic community in Britain is putting millions towards funding the non-State parts of this trip, but ultimately the Pope was invited by the Government, not the Church in England, and I don’t believe in “opt-out” taxation, so I don’t have a problem with tax money going towards the State elements of the visit. As for the Vatican “coffers”: unless you’re proposing that they sell works of art to private collectors (which would benefit no-one but a few vulgar bankers, I suspect) you’ll find the Vatican is running at a loss at the moment. The recession has hit everyone, not just the UK!

  16. Sorry, the Eve Tushnet profile is here; the link I posted above is to her blog.

  17. Australian Gay Activist Paul Mitchell 23 Jul 2010, 3:09pm

    The Catholic Taliban Pope should be banned from even stepping outside of Vatican City, because he is a horrible and dispicable man!!!!

  18. Well, Bob that’s certainly expected. I mean there’s always a few self-hating queens out there who would support a figure that DOES at least deny and condone child abuse, endorses the spread of HIV and AIDS and tends to hate anything that goes against his personal beliefs.
    I have no interest in what this inhuman creature has to promote and my only sincere hope is that he receives a very warm welcome – hopefully courtesy of a well aimed Molotov cocktail or firebomb.
    He is NOT my holy father and I shall be demonstrating against him. The people who have suffered and died at the hands of his prejudices deserve that – they deserve to be recognised and honoured.
    Scum is not welcome in the UK.

  19. I’m no fan of this pope but he’s certainly made lots of enemies. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone tried to assassinate him. I hope I’m wrong despite how much I dislike his views.

    I hope he knows how disliked he is by many though.

  20. Its going to cost you £25 to get in to the Arch Homophobe of Rome’s Bash in the Park! (should you wish to attend of course!) Like Nick Griffin at the Palace, he should have his invite revoked at once!!!!

  21. Bob, and what about the church’s refusal to allow condom distribution in emerging nations. Your believed gruppenfuehrer recently stated that condoms do not help prevent the spread of HIV/AID but serve to promote it, a statement that was condemned buy many of the world’s health organisations, doctors and other leaders in the field. That is gross irresponsibility and gives tacit support to more infections and deaths in the world. If that’s not tantamount to sanctioning genocide I don’t know what is. He should be charged for crimes against humanity just for that alone. Its nothing but pure evil. Further, your cult has absolutely NO moral authority to pass judgement on us or any others given its millenia old tradition of paedophilia and abuse of women.

  22. Spanner – it is a State visit; he was invited by HM’s Government. That’s why headlines on government websites (e.g. here) describe it as such. Then there’s the fact that the UK has an ambassador to the Holy See… does rather suggest your view is not the Government’s one.

  23. First,can we please get over the fact that Ratzinger was a member of the Hitler Youth!The vast majority of those young people didn’t have any real choice in the matter.How many of us,faced with the choice to enlist in an organisation,at such a young age,or risk persecution and possible imprisonment would actively chose to refuse to enlist?!The fact that Ratzinger was a member bears little/no relevance to his suitability as pontiff!
    Moving on,it’s no huge surprise that the government is to move the goal-posts in terms of ensuring activists do not attempt to ‘arrest’ Ratzinger.After all,despite global outrage against the likes of Mugabe and his tyranical hold over the people of Zimbabwe,do we seriously expect to be able to arrest someone like Ratzinger?!Whether entry to the open air mass is by invitation or not,there are still any number of ways to protest this vile man’s visit!

  24. @BOB 15/16 – the article on Catholics views on contraception, in my opinion, are ridiculous. We are talking about millions of people contracting HIV/AIDS beacause the Catholic Church will not condone condom use. Not only that but the Pope is LYING when he says that condoms do not prevent HIV/AIDS spread, and in fact make it worse. Where is the scientific backup to these claims???

    As for the Eve Tushnet article and the fact that there are “female and homosexual Catholics who don’t feel hated” this says more about the brainwashing ability of religion than it does anything else.

    You say that you do not consider the Pope guilty of protecting paedophiles (i’ll agree to disagree on that matter), however surely you cannot deny that some of the highest ranking Catholics have participated in a huge coverup, resulting in the physical, sexual and mental abuse of thousands of children? Yet these same people are meant to be the ones who advise Catholics (and non-Catholics) how they should live their lives?

    Finally to address your “opt-out” taxation comment. The things you adress in your comment are VERY different from what we are talking about here. For example abortion, whether you agree with it or not, is a very neccessary service. There are serious medical reasons why it may need to be carried out, or witholding the service may have severe mental/physical repurcussions for a would-be mother in later life. However why is this visit needed? what purpose does it serve? Will catholics go into mental breakdown/commit suicide/die if the Pope dosn’t come to town?? No, they wont!

  25. Robert – Edward Green, who is not a Catholic, and is director of the AIDS Prevention Center at the Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies, had this to say about the Pope’s comments on condom promotion:

    The best evidence we have supports the Pope’s comments… There is a consistent association shown by our best studies, including the U.S.-funded ‘Demographic Health Surveys,’ between greater availability and use of condoms and higher (not lower) HIV-infection rates.

    But perhaps you know better than him?

  26. Before you drag out comment 26 to counter my point above, yes I have read of the studies saying as much. However, with such a high % of some African countries already suffering from HIV/AIDS simply being monogamous will not help the individual. Sure, if everyone was monogamous we would see a decline in AIDS over time, however that does not help the men/women/children living in the here and now. The only way for them to safely protect themself (whether sleeping with one partner or 10) is through use of a condom!!

  27. why do so many like Bob and others crawl out to spout their bile? Bob’s attacking the people who are against the pope and supporting the ignorant old bigoted loser! this law change is only to protect the pope and no-one else so the liberal influence is a failure and the tories are returning to their bad old ways

  28. DT – Your comment about Eve Tushnet is beneath you. She’s an intelligent convert, not a robot. You might not like her views, but describing her as “brainwashed” is just ad hominem silliness.

    I doubt many Catholics agree that abortion is “very necessary”, and as you doubtless know, most abortions are not carried out due to a threat to the mother’s life. As for the scandals: I don’t deny some bishops have disgraced themselves in the way they’ve handled the abuse cases, but that doesn’t prove that what they teach is wrong; just that they’ve spectacularly failed to live up to their teachings. No-one has ever claimed that bishops – or, for that matter, the Pope – are morally perfect. We’re a Church of sinners. Still, I wouldn’t ignore my cardiologist’s advice just because he happens to be obese, and I am not going to ignore the teaching of the Church just because some of those with the authority to teach have proven corrupt. When Jesus spoke to the crowds about the scribes and Pharisees (Matthew 23), he said “you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practise what they preach.” I think the same holds true for some bishops.

    I posted in response to Robert an indication of the research data re: condom distribution. It is a simple matter of fact that, outside of tainted blood transfusions, it’s hard to see how AIDS would spread if Catholic teaching on sexuality were embraced. How are STDs meant to spread if you live a life of monogamy and sex within marriage?

  29. So the catholic church is built on “do as i say, not as i do”??? Give me a break!

    It’s all well and good Catholocism saying, if you lived a monogamous life you wouldn’t have AIDS/STIs. That may well be true (or at least helpful), however the Catholic Church needs to open it’s eyes and realise that it’s too late, AIDS is already a problem and so needs to be dealt with. Their whole POV smacks of an “I told you so” attitude. What they need to do is accept that condom use is the only way for a community with a very high incidence of AIDS to adequately protect themselves in the short-term.

    If every person on the African continent woke up tomorrow and vowed to live a monogamous lifestyle would new infections cease? No, because there is probably a pretty high chance that the partner you have chosen may already have AIDS.

    Now if everyone woke up tomorrow and vowed to use a condom every time they had sex (regardless of who with) AIDS wouldn’t disappear, but new infections would virtually cease (besides a few cases of condom failure).

  30. “Its going to cost you £25 to get in to the Arch Homophobe of Rome’s Bash in the Park! (should you wish to attend of course!) ”

    And how does one purchase a ticket for his gig?

    I’m going to go for the laugh and to try to get communion from Ratzinger.

    The pope has spent years offering protection and security to serial child rapists.

    He is a hateful monster.

    The lessons he learned about jews when he was a member of the Hitler Youth were learned well.

    These days he simply substitutes the word ‘homosexual’ for ‘jew’.

    I intend to let him know how unwelcome he and his hatespeech and his childrapist protection activities are.

  31. Here’s more detail about Ratzinger’s gig in Birmingham:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-10737650

    I can’t wait to go.

    If I am expected to pay £25 euro for a ticket for his concert then I will be there.

    Up at the front with my husband.
    And a group of gay friends

    Snogging.

    If they are charging £25 Euro a ticket for this gig, then they cannot eject people for public displays of affection.

  32. DT – It’s not “do as I say, not as I do”, but a simple admission that human teachers will not always live up to their teachings. Just as the obese cardiologist’s advice to quit smoking is good advice even if he’s puffing away in the car park between consultations, so the bishop who tells those in his care to be honest and co-operate with civil authorities is giving good teaching, even while failing to live by it. Though I think the accusations against the Pope are largely false, it’s important to realise that when Catholics talk about papal infallibility, they mean the Pope’s teaching is protected from error; not that he is guaranteed to be perfectly moral. (You don’t need to know much history to know how far some popes have strayed from the Christian ideal in their personal conduct…)

    On AIDS, the Church’s teaching isn’t “I told you so”. It’s Church agencies and religious orders that provide care for a lot of those affected by AIDS. In the long-term, as you seem to admit, condoms aren’t the solution; we need a transformation of the culture and, please God, some medical advances. In the short term, I would suggest that someone with AIDS has an obligation to abstain from sexual intercourse, rather than exposing their husband/wife to the risk of infection. Condom failure is not unheard of, and I wouldn’t play Russian roulette with someone I loved.

  33. de Villiers 23 Jul 2010, 5:20pm

    This was something the Labour government said it would bring in after the former Israeli Prime Minister cancelled her visit to the UK because of concern of an international arrest warrant.

    This has long been in the drafting stage.

  34. No 33: Bob: you say:

    “when Catholics talk about papal infallibility, they mean the Pope’s teaching is protected from error”

    But his teaching is so blatantlt daft.

    Priests were barred from marrying solely to protect church assets. Not because of any ‘divine’ message.

    Women are barred from being priests because the church hates women. Not because of some ‘divine’ message.

    How anyone can respect papal infallibility is incomprehensible seeing as his teaching is blatantly flawed and ridiculous, and designed not with humanity’s wellbeing in mind, but rather with protecting assets.

  35. Bob’s being very civil and reasonable here, and I’d mostly support his arguments. He’s cited sources and made solid assertions without too much emotionally driven opinion. The responses have mostly been the opposite.
    Speaking for myself, a gay man who strongly disagrees with the church’s stance on homosexuality, whether you buy into the religious stuff or not, the Pope isn’t committing genocide, or any of that other stuff. He didn’t order anyone to abuse children and he’s not ordering anyone killed. This arrest would be about political statements rather than individual justice and that’s not what it’s for.
    You can strongly oppose his views and still retain a calm approach to foreign policy and international law.

    He’ll be treated as what he is, a foreign dignitary who’s been invited by our head of state.

  36. Ratzinger stated last year that tolerance of homosexuality was as dangerous to the world as the destruction of the rainforest.

    How any LGBT person could possibly support such wicked doctrine is incomprehensible.

  37. “Bob’s being very civil and reasonable here, and I’d mostly support his arguments. He’s cited sources and made solid assertions without too much emotionally driven opinion.”

    He nmay be civil but I’d hardly call him reasonable. He’s unable to explain why the church hates women and gay people, and why it has offered such unstinting support to serial child rapists over generations.

    When Ratzinger says that homosexuality is ‘intrinsically disordered’ he is basing his teaching on homophobia and superstition. Nothing more.

    And he doesn’t seem to acknowledge the pernicious and very damaging influence the church tries to assert over the laws in sovereign states.

    The church can believe what it likes but its attempts to suppress democracy and human rights is unforgiveable.

  38. “Like it or not, it has been mainly homosexuals responsible for abusing kids in the Catholic church. You guys should take a long look at yourselves before attacking the pope! ”

    Leaving aside your incorrect assertion that gay people are responsible for the culture of child-rape within the catholic church, I’d like to point out 1 thing.

    Statistically speaking catholic priests are far more likely to rape children than non-priests.

    Any parent who would allow their child to be in the presence of a catholic priest, is an idiot.

    I wonder why Ratzinger went to such incredible efforts to protest these monsters.

    Church unity has always been more important to the catholic church than the health and wellbeing of children.

  39. Interesting (well to me anyway) anecdote.

    I am 34 and grew up in Ireland. My mother was a good devout catholic woman and I had to attend Mass with her every Sunday.

    Between 1986 and 1988 I was a catholic altar boy.

    I always wondered why my mother NEVER allowed me to be in the company of a priest on my own.

    This was before the revelation of how many child rapists were infesting the catholic priesthood.

    Now with hindsight I can see that even though it was not spoken about, catholic priests were not to be trusted with children.

    Now we know why.

    Nothing ever happened to me. But we know from countless other sources that if a priest was abusing children and it came to the attention of the bishops, then the priest would simply have been moved to another parish without reprimand to continue his life of crime

  40. StephenC – First, the requirement for priestly celibacy isn’t a matter of doctrine, let alone something protected by papal infallibility; it’s a discipline of the Catholic Church’s Latin rite. Eastern Catholic priests (in full communion with Rome) are allowed to marry. The merits of the Western discipline can be disputed by orthodox Catholics, and everyone’s aware that priestly celibacy was not the norm in the first millennium.

    You also said that Ratzinger stated last year that tolerance of homosexuality was as dangerous to the world as the destruction of the rainforest. This is untrue, even if a number of British papers claimed as such. You can read what he actually said here; the relevant portion of the address is this:

    What is often expressed and understood by the term “gender” ultimately ends up being man’s attempt at self-emancipation from creation and the Creator. Man wants to be his own master, and alone – always and exclusively – to determine everything that concerns him. Yet in this way he lives in opposition to the truth, in opposition to the Creator Spirit. Rainforests deserve indeed to be protected, but no less so does man, as a creature having an innate “message” which does not contradict our freedom, but is instead its very premise.

    He’s criticising the notion, popular with some gender theorists, that our sexual identity is a malleable construct. Sure, it’s not a message likely to resonate with the average social liberal, but it’s hardly what you’ve tried to paint it as. Homosexuality isn’t even mentioned.

    Finally, you said that statistically speaking catholic priests are far more likely to rape children than non-priests. This is untrue. As Newsweek reported in an article in April,

    The Catholic sex-abuse stories emerging every day suggest that Catholics have a much bigger problem with child molestation than other denominations and the general population. Many point to peculiarities of the Catholic Church (its celibacy rules for priests, its insular hierarchy, its exclusion of women) to infer that there’s something particularly pernicious about Catholic clerics that predisposes them to these horrific acts. It’s no wonder that, back in 2002 — when the last Catholic sex-abuse scandal was making headlines — a Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll found that 64 percent of those queried thought Catholic priests “frequently” abused children. Yet experts say there’s simply no data to support the claim at all.

    I encourage you to read the full article; it shows that Catholic priests are certainly not “far more likely” to abuse than the average layman.

  41. So the pope tells africans not to use condoms. Obviously he’s done the math. Despite millions of miserable deaths, he sees a net growth in his army, dedicated to conquering the world.

    And of course, just like hitler, he needs an “ememy” against which to rally the people. For hitler it was the Jews. For the churchfuhrer it is the gayss.

    And hitler said the same thing to his people, telling them to have more babies as fodder for the Wehrmach. Of course he also described mankind as nothing but “meat and bones”. to be manipulated and controlled. Sound familiar?

    BTW, Hitler is still UNexcommunicated, same re his minister of Propaganda Gobbels, who defined his mission just like the church does – “if you tell lies often enough and outrageous enough, they will be seen as the truth.” And 55 million died.

    And in 2009 the churchfuhrer UNexcommunicated a Bishop Williamson, who is a holocaust denier who leads 600000 mad people.

    At least Argentina threw the criminal out of the country.

    And put in gay marriage.

  42. “the requirement for priestly celibacy isn’t a matter of doctrine, let alone something protected by papal infallibility; it’s a discipline of the Catholic Church’s Latin rite. ”

    And you accept it’s absurd and stupid?

    “What is often expressed and understood by the term “gender” ultimately ends up being man’s attempt at self-emancipation from creation and the Creator.”

    I don’t believe in a ‘creator’. To me that is superstitious nonsense.

    “He’s criticising the notion, popular with some gender theorists, that our sexual identity is a malleable construct.”

    And he’s an expert on sexual identity because…??? What are his specific qualifications here?

    “The Catholic sex-abuse stories emerging every day suggest that Catholics have a much bigger problem with child molestation than other denominations and the general population.”

    I did not say that CATHOLICS are more likely to be child rapists than the rest of the population.

    I said that CATHOLIC PRIESTS were more likely to be child rapists than the rest of the population.

  43. SteveMD2 – There’s perhaps not much point trying to convince you that the Church isn’t the monstrous organisation you apparently think it is, but for the sake of those who may have been misled by what you wrote, it should be noted that, as the Middle Temple barrister James Bogle has observed, “Hitler was already excommunicated ipso facto for a whole range of crimes and could only have returned to the Catholic faith, even assuming that he would ever have wanted to, by having his excommunication lifted by the Pope himself. The lifting of the sentence was reserved to the Holy See, latae sententiae.” I’m not quite sure what you’re asking for – a decree confirming as much? What would that achieve, now that Hitler is dead? Excommunication is supposed to be a medicinal penalty, imposed for the benefit of the person excommunicated so that they will repent and return to the fold. Hitler, whatever his final destination, can’t change now. As for Bishop Williamson – yes, he is no longer excommunicate. Neither are the three other bishops whose excommunications were lifted at the same time. All four remain suspended from exercising ministerial functions. Their excommunication never had anything to do with Williamson’s ridiculous historical opinions, so that’s a red herring.

    StephenC – The Newsweek piece is about Catholic priests, not Catholics in general. And, as the subtitle makes perfectly clear, the research suggests that priests seem to abuse children at the same rate as everyone else. In fact, they’re slightly less likely to, according to the most exhaustive study. I appreciate that doesn’t fit in with the popular narrative, but majority opinion isn’t always a reliable indicator of truth. I’m not going to debate the existence of God or the merits of celibacy (which I’d affirm) here, but I’m glad you’re not defending the inaccuracies you presented earlier.

  44. Mumbo Jumbo 23 Jul 2010, 9:33pm

    Comment 45 by Olaf Pilsner

    “Kick the gays out of the Catholic church and stop them abusing kids!”

    I think you will find that girls were raped and beaten as well as boys.

    Indeed, attacking and raping children is the only area where the RC Church has shown an enthusiasm for equality.

    Comment 46 by Bob

    “……research suggests that priests seem to abuse children at the same rate as everyone else.”

    Even if true, it is beside the point and you argue against yourself.

    Because as the RC church makes claims to be the holder of the eternal truth and be the final arbiter on morality, there should surely be no child rapes at all by priests – never mind the subsequent multiple cover-ups by the heirarchy.

    It is surely only the non-believers with their false ideas and inferior morals who should be raping and beating the defenceless before telling the very same children that they are lying little whores when they brevely report the abuse.

    You simply cannot argue from a point of absolute truth and moral superiority and at the same time make excuses for the most hideous crimes by saying that the church is no better or worse that the rest of society and is afflicted by the same problems.

    Because if the church is no wiser or better in action and thought than the rest of society, then what is it for?

    Apart from power and money, that is.

  45. Mumbo Jumbo – I addressed this point above. The Church is a hospital for sinners and a school for saints. In its ranks can be found people of extraordinary holiness, extraordinary wickedness, and everything in-between. Those who commit the sins we’re talking about are not motivated by their Catholicism, for Catholicism teaches the protection of the innocent and sexual continence; it also teaches care for the sick, the poor, the oppressed – which is why so many charities, schools and hospitals are run by Catholic agencies and orders. The founder of the Church, the one who promised the Church that she would be protected from error in her teaching, also told a parable of wheat and weeds:

    “The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a man who sowed good seed in his field. While everyone was asleep his enemy came and sowed weeds all through the wheat, and then went off. When the crop grew and bore fruit, the weeds appeared as well. The slaves of the householder came to him and said, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?’ He answered, ‘An enemy has done this.’ His slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ He replied, ‘No, if you pull up the weeds you might uproot the wheat along with them. Let them grow together until harvest; then at harvest time I will say to the harvesters, “First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles for burning; but gather the wheat into my barn.”‘”

    If you think the presence of great wickedness in the ranks of the faithful serves to disprove the Catholic claim, I suspect you’ve never understood it. Some priests have committed great evil, and they should have been dealt with the moment evidence of their crimes came to light; that they were not is largely due to the incompetence, self-regard and dishonesty of certain prelates. But while their actions may prove useful weapons to those already inclined to hate the Church, they cannot negate the truth of the Gospel, any more than Judas’ betrayal or Peter’s denial did at the time of the Church’s birth. Pope Benedict wrote movingly about this in 2005:

    Should we not also think of how much Christ suffers in his own Church? How often is the holy sacrament of his Presence abused, how often must he enter empty and evil hearts! How often do we celebrate only ourselves, without even realizing that he is there! How often is his Word twisted and misused! What little faith is present behind so many theories, so many empty words! How much filth there is in the Church, and even among those who, in the priesthood, ought to belong entirely to him! How much pride, how much self-complacency! What little respect we pay to the Sacrament of Reconciliation, where he waits for us, ready to raise us up whenever we fall! All this is present in his Passion. His betrayal by his disciples, their unworthy reception of his Body and Blood, is certainly the greatest suffering endured by the Redeemer; it pierces his heart. We can only call to him from the depths of our hearts: Kyrie eleison ­Lord, save us.

  46. As someone who was brought up a catholic and still has devout relatives, I really don’t understand how people just don’t see how stupid it is. The catholic cult is dependent on obedience and ignoring science.

    This belief that a cosmic jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a woman who was created from a man’s rib was convinced by a talking snake to eat an apple from a magical tree.. see it all makes perfect sense.

  47. So much for the government being the servant of the people, more like a dictatorship

  48. @15 comment by Bob: On the Catholic Catechism that gays
    “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.”
    The key words being “unjust discrimination” because as we know the Catholic church believes that is it’s extreme discrimination against homosexuals is perfectly justified.

  49. I’m wondering why Bob spends so much of his time on Pink News…

  50. The bottom line is this: if you are a parent, then do not leave your child alone with a catholic priest, as he is far more to be a child molester than anyone else.

    As for Ratzinger: why does that geriatric virgin hate women, children and gays so much?

  51. olaf and orange – lesbians, gays and bisexuals are not pedos
    I’m also thinking of you two as trolls
    Bob – you don’t seem interested in facts plus the ones ho got punished were the victims as the church was too busy transferring priests and blaming the kids

  52. Does anyone know the details of the planned protests? Do the organisers have a website or Facebook page?

  53. @Bob:

    1. I am in a long standing monogamous relationship, which the state recognises as a civil partnership in all respects equal to heterosexual marriage. I am a lawyer; he is a teacher. We could be regarded as pillars of the local community! Your church campaigned virulently against civil partnerships as being in some way destructive of (heterosexual) marriage. Do you think that our relationship should cease to be so recognised? Hint: a yes or no answer will do.

    2. In the interests of fairness I think that if you are going to quote the quote the paragraph of the Catholic catechism about treating gays (in the context of the illness you think we have) with respect etc. I would like you please to post the two paragraphs immediately before the quoted paragraph and immediately after (paras 2357 and 2369 in the edition I have to hand) – the context is all here.

  54. So that FACT that the homophobic tory party are trying to change the law to protect a homophobic ex naxi youth member pope is just proof that under the current law, the current pope is a criminal.

    Shame on the gay men and women that voted tory in the last election for bringing a party into power that would try and change the law to protect this man.

  55. And poor BOB, defending a paedophile protector – christ would be ashamed of you Bob – sort your head out. The more retarded new age theology you write, the more you inspire me to protest the pope.

  56. Link to the protest the pope pages for anyone interested –

    http://www.protest-the-pope.org.uk/

  57. Let’s hope his plane gets struck by lightning on the way over and it crashes and everyone on board dies.

  58. Jess Conrad 25 Jul 2010, 8:52am

    AS STATED ON FACEBOOK HOMEPAGE….IS IT UN-BRITISH TO WANT TO ARREST A MEMBER OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC PAEDAPHILE ASSOSIATION??

  59. southpaugh 25 Jul 2010, 9:08am

    Were so many of us not indoctrinated and literally brainwashed into believing obviously outlandish and impossible myths as some kind of explanation of how the Universe works, even to the point of fearing the very idea of questioning any point, policy or representative of those myths, the very concept of religion, especially the Judeo/Christian Abrahamic range, would be universally recognized as the fraud that it is. Were I not an escapee of that paradigm, I would say that religious apologists could be excused their intransigence and self perpetuating deception. However, as living proof one can transcend religion’s manipulation, I call on all rational adults among the faithful to question and revise their religious opinions. Under any other context, the very idea of religion would be recognized as demented, dysfunctional, delusional and outright fraudulent. As the leader of the world’s largest organization of religious fraud, Ratzinger is, at minimum, guilty of fraud. He is also criminally guilty of perverting the course of justice which is a crime in every nation on earth. His twisted policies on morality are actively damaging peoples’ lives and killing countless others. Because there is not one single good deed accomplished in the name of The Church that cannot be executed as well or better without the trappings of said Church, there is no excuse to cover for or otherwise enable this criminal. It is meet and right to expose him for his true nature and remove him from influence. Jail the bastard!

  60. I will be taking part in whatever protests organised to condemn this despicable man’s visit to the UK.

  61. First up the Pope should be arrested and prosecuted for fraud immediately, then we could get into the business of his aiding and abetting the clerical rape & torture of children, the extremist discrimination & hate speech against LGBT people that has damaged so many lives and the genocide the Pope is responsible for especially in Africa for spreading the murderous lie that using condoms makes it more likely you will get Aids.

  62. Check out this programme to see the extent of the cover up and protection of child rapists by the catholic church any doubters should watch this programme, the defend a church which is rotten from the top down..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wBExdblRNY

  63. My friendly nun tells be he is going to be visiting St Joesph’s Hospice in Hackney to open the new convent and public square, time to rally the Hackney lesbians.

  64. 70,000 people expected to attend. Interesting when you think London Pride attracts approx 1 million people.

    Kind of puts things in an interesting prospective when religious idiots keep harping on about the LBGT community as a minority and obsessively using ratio and figures to make their point!

  65. Wim in Holland 28 Jul 2010, 10:38am

    Obviously British Governement itself thinks : This man is a criminal.

  66. I notice that when a courteous and rational point is put to Bob he runs away….

  67. Harry,

    I’m sorry, I actually forgot about this discussion. Anyway, to answer your questions:

    1. Yes.
    2. The entire document is available free of charge >a href=”http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm”>here. All the context one could hope for. I would encourage everyone to read it, that they might better understand the faith they profess to so despise.

  68. I flubbed the link. It’s HERE.

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