Enter your email address to receive our daily LGBT news roundup

You're free to unsubscribe at any time.

Tory councillor cleared of homophobia over ‘limpwristed boys’ remark

Post your comment

Comments on this article are now closed.

Reader comments

  1. OK – I accept your apology this time but you will be closely scrutinised, from now on.
    Mr Knowles – you made the offensive comment, be very careful in the future. Your mindset is obviously still not fully cured of its narrow way of thinking.

  2. What a mistleading headline used in this article:

    “Tory councillor cleared of homophobia over ‘limpwristed boys’ remark”

    WHO has cleared Tory Councillor Dennis Knowles of homophobia?

    Why the Tory Party itself has!

    “A two-month inquiry was carried out by Matthew Sephton, the chairman of Conservative gay group LGBTory.”

    How utterly absurd.

    The LGBTory Group does not have any opinions or policies of their own.

    They exist solely to reassure the gays that they Tories are not homophobic.

    LGBTory do not support civil marriage equality for same sex couples

    LGBTory have not condemned the religious opt out from equality laws

    LGBTory has no opinion on whether the Tories should be allied in Europe with the neo-fascist Law and Justice Party

    LGBTory had no opinion on whether Chris Grayling or Philippa Stroud were appropriate candidates for the Tory Party.

    Sort this out Pink News.

    You claim to be editorially independent. However even I know that a headline reading ‘Internal Tory investigation clears Tory councillor of homophobia is a more appropriate and accurate headline.

  3. Sister Mary Clarance 13 Jul 2010, 12:30pm

    StephenC I can see you are incensed by this, so can you please tell me your views on the Labour party handling of the Miranda Grell incident, when she doorstepped voters telling then that the incumbent gay councillor was a paedophile?

    The Labour Party funded her appeal against conviction which was unsuccessful and even then did not suspend or expel her.

    Having merely resigned she is free to rear her ugly head at any time in the future.

    I would like to hear you actually condemn the Labour Party’s actions here, otherwise it looks like you’re digs are purely party political rather than any genuine concern about the injustices of prejudice.

  4. ChutneyBear 13 Jul 2010, 12:39pm

    He was reinforcing stereotypes? Phew thanks be to god Gay pride doesnt do that…here was me thinking they dress in pink for gay pride blow whistles and prance about reinforcing stereotypes, we all know us gays wouldnt do that!…

  5. I absolutely condemn the Labour Party for the Miranda Grell incident. She is not fit for membership of any party other than the BNP.

    Now I would like to hear YOU condemn the absurdity of the Tory Party clearing itself of homophobia.

    It’s patently ridiculous to allow an group like LGBTory which has NEVER expressed an opinion which differs from the official party line to investigate allegations of homophobia against a Tory Party member.

    This is the group remember, which has no problem with the alliance between the Tory Party and the neo-fascist Law and Justice Party in Poland.

    This story is 100% spin and it’s both tragic and pathetic to see gay people allow themselves to be used for PR purposees like this.

  6. Maybe the guy is not a homophobe. His comments are certainly not the worst ever uttered.

    But allowing the Gay Uncle Toms of the LGBTory Group to hold an investigation on whether he is homophobic is evidence that the outcome was a foregone conclusion.

  7. Chutneybear – you are as ignorant as this guy is as the majority are not like what you claim and he was homophobic,

  8. ChutneyBear 13 Jul 2010, 2:00pm

    Chester (is that cockney rhyming slang?) I was being sarcastic, of course the vast majority are not that way mate I wasnt suggesting that for one moment but we do have a few of the limpwristed variety who give off this view!

  9. vulpus_rex 13 Jul 2010, 2:04pm

    For once Smurph I’m inclined to agree with you – a ridiculous pantomime of an investigation.

    But there again this is the best way of dealing with ridiculous pantomime comedy accusations of homophobia.

    Harriet Harhag’s calls for resignations are truly both disgusting and outrageous. She stood by and watch the unelected dictator Brown wreck our country’s economy and levelled not one word of criticism.

  10. Sister Mary Clarance 13 Jul 2010, 2:12pm

    Dtephen – good I’m glad your happy to condemn the Labour Party for wrong-doing too.

    As for Mr Knowles, the comment was homophobic, and he was suspended from the party for it while it was investigated. He was obviously embarrassed by the incident and immediately knew the comments were a mistake, and as stated in the article has unreservedly apologised.

    Taking into account the work he does with gay groups and the good relationship he has with other gay colleagues, the inquiry satisfied itself that they was no deep seated hatred of gay people and that the comments where ill thought out election banter.

    The inquiry has been satisfied that he has shown remorse for something he is clear was wrong.

    I am certainly not going to be calling for the death of his first born. He made a small mistake, he apologised, and I personally don’t think he’ll be doing it again.

    I am satisified with that.

    As for who lead the inquiry, would you have been any more satisfied if it has been a group of home counties blue rinsed upper middle class pensioners?

  11. This is quite funny news. I’m glad he’s sorry and that he’s apologised but how can anyone say that comment was not homophobic?

  12. This wasn’t homophobic, just a case of sheer ignorance and an extremely bad education.

  13. Patrick James 13 Jul 2010, 4:20pm

    Sister Mary Clarance writes:

    Please tell me your views on the Labour party handling of the Miranda Grell incident, when she doorstepped voters telling then that the incumbent gay councillor was a paedophile?

    The Labour Party funded her appeal against conviction which was unsuccessful and even then did not suspend or expel her.

    The Labour Party did not fund Miranda Grell’s appeal against conviction. They considered it for about a month and then did not do so.

    The Labour Party was not going to expel Miranda Grell, I think, because they just do not believe themselves that she was guilty.

  14. ‘Unusual group of boys today, of the flat-nosed big-lipped type, and definitely NOT local.’

    Admit it, this would have been much more of a big deal had he said that.

  15. Patrick James 13 Jul 2010, 4:31pm

    Personally I think the enquiry is considerably more offensive than the remark made by Denis Knowles.

    The enquiry is conducted by Matthew Sephton, of the LGBT Conservatives!

    In fact the whole story is a classic example of how it works with these LGBT Conservatives. They seem to simply cover up or whitewash Conservative Party homophobia.

    The clear message has gone out from this that if Tory representatives make public homophobic remarks in the future then the LGBT Conservatives will do their utmost to minimise the damage to that person.

  16. Sister Mary Clarance 13 Jul 2010, 4:38pm

    “The Labour Party was not going to expel Miranda Grell, I think, because they just do not believe themselves that she was guilty.”

    Ha, Patrick, THEY didn’t this she was guilty, despite the fact that two courts felt that she was in the face of compelling evidence.

    It was widely reported at the time that Labour Party funding of her defence was withdrawn only the day before her appeal.

    Every Tom, Dick and Harry in the party stood up to defend her, knowing that she had been suspended from the party. Odd too she would be suspended and her appeal funded I think personally, Patrick.

    “The leader of the Labour group on Waltham Forest council, Councillor Clyde Loakes, said: “Miranda Grell has brought the reputation of the local party into disrepute and I am glad that she has now resigned from the Labour Party.”

    “The Labour Party was not going to expel Miranda Grell, I think, because they just do not believe themselves that she was guilty”

    Can’t BOTH be true Patrick – so who is making stuff up, Patrick – you or the Leader of the Labour Group on Waltham Forest Council?

  17. An unusual small group of uneducated tory bigots keep leaving comments on this website, of the right wing fascist variety and definitely NOT with homosexuals best intentions at heart.

  18. squidgy – “This wasn’t homophobic, just a case of sheer ignorance and an extremely bad education.” – yes ignorance is usually what creates homophobia Squidgy. duuhhhh.

    his comment was homophobic. the fact that he’s apologised is fine, but his comment was homophobic.

  19. and why are you going on about miranda gell Mary? this story is about a tory councillor. typical tory statergy, change the subject onto something else to evade the issue that is being discussed. jeez, you’re always accusing patrick and others of being unbalanced in their political views towards labour. you need to take a look in the mirror, you should go and work with squidgy at tory HQ.

  20. Sister Mary Clarance 13 Jul 2010, 5:47pm

    Er, Jay I think you’re find that I actually said I felt the comments WERE homophobic, but the Labour ‘you’re a bad homosexual if you vote tory’ trolls seem to forget that Labour sometimes has some issues, although when they are highlighted the comments pages are somewhat lighter in their criticism.

    Out in the real world its call double-standards.

    Patrick’s posting is a case in point – Labour didn’t deal with their little homophobe because they didn’t think she was guilty, and yet the Tories deal with there councillor and it wasn’t good enough. Surely something is better than nothing at all.

    People of all political persuasions do things wrong, sometimes big things sometimes little things. It should be the seriousness of what they have done wrong that should determine the level of criticism not their political leanings.

  21. The most surprising thing is that anyone is surprised. We are talking Tories and those strange animals, gay tories, who love to be hated by their so-called friends.

  22. Mumbo Jumbo 13 Jul 2010, 6:29pm

    Rabbits Find Bunny Not Guilty of Lettuce Theft – Shock.

  23. Patrick James 13 Jul 2010, 6:41pm

    Sister Mary Clarence writes:

    Ha, Patrick, THEY didn’t this she was guilty, despite the fact that two courts felt that she was in the face of compelling evidence.

    Not very many people in the Labour party were convinced that Miranda Grell was guilty.

    It was widely reported at the time that Labour Party funding of her defence was withdrawn only the day before her appeal.

    There is no reason at all why the Labour Party should not have funded Miranda Grell’s defence. As it happens they chose not to.

    Every Tom, Dick and Harry in the party stood up to defend her, knowing that she had been suspended from the party. Odd too she would be suspended and her appeal funded I think personally, Patrick.

    Of course they did because they simply did not believe that she was guilty.

    Sister Mary Clarence does not understand that Miranda Grell was convicted on hearsay.

    The court chose simply to believe what had been said about Miranda Grell.

    The Labour party for the most part did not and to be frankly, still does not.

    Sister Mary Clarence demonstrates over and over again that he has a special disliking for the Labour party so it is no surprise that Sister Mary Clarence brings up the Miranda Grell case when Conservatives are accused of homophobia.

    The truth is that Miranda Grell is one of very few incidents of reported homophobia expressed in the Labour party in the last decades.

    Sister Mary Clarence writes

    The leader of the Labour group on Waltham Forest council, Councillor Clyde Loakes, said: “Miranda Grell has brought the reputation of the local party into disrepute and I am glad that she has now resigned from the Labour Party.”

    Can’t BOTH be true Patrick – so who is making stuff up, Patrick – you or the Leader of the Labour Group on Waltham Forest Council?

    What do you mean “can’t both be true”?

    The vast majority of people in the Labour party do not believe that Miranda Grell was guilty. Maybe Councillor Clyde Loakes is not amongst that vast majority?

    Given that Miranda Grell was convicted on hearsay personally I am very glad that the Labour party did not expel her but rather accepted resignation.

  24. Patrick James 13 Jul 2010, 6:50pm

    Sister Mary Clarence

    Patrick’s posting is a case in point – Labour didn’t deal with their little homophobe because they didn’t think she was guilty, and yet the Tories deal with there councillor and it wasn’t good enough. Surely something is better than nothing at all.

    Every time a Conservative party spokesperson makes some homophobic comment Sister Mary Clarence brings up Miranda Grell.

    For the most part Labour do not believe that Miranda Grell was guilty because she was convicted on the basis of hearsay.

    That the courts chose to believe Miranda Grell was guilty is up to them but the Labour party does not have to believe what they believe. It is a free country in that regard.

    There is no doubt about this Tory councillor because he made his comments in Facebook I believe for all to see.

    You write that “the Tories deal with there councillor and it wasn’t good enough”.

    Well, no action whatsoever is to be taken against the councillor it seems. Instead the LGBT Conservatives are doing their level best to whitewash him and tell us all that he is the very finest of citizens.

  25. Patrick James 13 Jul 2010, 7:02pm

    Sister Mary Clarence writes:

    People of all political persuasions do things wrong, sometimes big things sometimes little things. It should be the seriousness of what they have done wrong that should determine the level of criticism not their political leanings.

    I am delighted to write that I entirely agree with this comment by Sister Mary Clarence.

    Every time a Conservative party member is accused of homophobia Sister Mary Clarence brings up Miranda Grell.

    Miranda Grell was convicted on the basis of hearsay.

    Miranda Grell did not make any public homophobic announcements whatsoever.

    She was accused instead of making homophobic comments to people on doorsteps while campaigning.

    If it was true then of course Miranda Grell deserved to be punished for this. However the courts were not interested in the rather obvious fact that the Liberal Democrats had a vested interest in the case.

    We cannot know if the people complaining about the homophobic statements were Liberal Democrat supporters or not.

    So, the Miranda Grell thing is not in any way a clear cut case.

    Different people chose to believe different things about Miranda Grell.

    It is my belief that the Labour party were quite right to simply accept Miranda Grell’s resignation rather than to expel her.

  26. Patrick James 13 Jul 2010, 7:10pm

    Jay writes:

    his comment was homophobic. the fact that he’s apologised is fine, but his comment was homophobic.

    I do agree with Jay that for this an apology is fine from the councillor. It was an ignorant homophobic thing, but worse things take place in this world.

    My posts have all been focussed on the issue of the LGBT Conservatives role in this.

    I think that they are not a credible grouping if they simply whitewash Conservative party homophobia in this way.

    The LGBT Conservatives whitewashing of the Conservative party’s alliance with the Polish Law and Justice party is truly grotesque and vastly more important than this tiny episode.

    However, this episode does remind us once again that the LGBT Conservatives’ role in the Conservative party is to whitewash homophobia.

  27. Patrick James 13 Jul 2010, 7:25pm

    StephenC writes about the LGBT Conservative grouping:

    This is the group remember, which has no problem with the alliance between the Tory Party and the neo-fascist Law and Justice Party in Poland.

    This story is 100% spin and it’s both tragic and pathetic to see gay people allow themselves to be used for PR purposees like this.

    For me the issue in this story is not in fact the comments of the Conservative party councillor but rather the behaviour of the LGBT Conservative party grouping.

    I entirely agree with StephenC’s comments above.

  28. Patrick James 13 Jul 2010, 7:31pm

    vulpus_rex writes:

    Harriet Harhag’s calls for resignations are truly both disgusting and outrageous. She stood by and watch the unelected dictator Brown wreck our country’s economy and levelled not one word of criticism.

    I think this is funny :)

  29. This Homer Simpson lookalike can now relax in his underpants in front of the telly…phew! a close one!

  30. Re previous comment:
    I’ve got nothing against Homer’s!

  31. ‘That the courts chose to believe Miranda Grell was guilty is up to them but the Labour party does not have to believe what they believe’

    Yeah, that very much seems to be the Labour Party has been working for years, hence the corruption and mess they have left behind

    Tho I’m fascinated by the Grell story having just googled it

    I can’t beleive any self respecting queer would have a word to say in her defence whoever they vote for, but seemingly some people on here have got more interest in political upmanship than the disgusting behaviour of people against fellow queers

    A couple of inappropriate words from this guy doesn’t even register compared to the utter evil Grell committed. She should have been locked up but there are queers here defending her

    Patrick your attitude disgusts me. How can you defend a woman who has perpertrated such a vile act on another queer? The evidence was not hearsay. Witnesses gave direct evidence is court, that is not hearsay. If the court was statisfied then the Labour Party should have accepted their decision, it makes a joke of the legal system in the government picks and chooses which court decisions it agrees with

    This guy never got to court, what he did does not compare to her crime

  32. Patrick James 14 Jul 2010, 12:05am

    I can’t beleive any self respecting queer would have a word to say in her defence whoever they vote for, but seemingly some people on here have got more interest in political upmanship than the disgusting behaviour of people against fellow queers

    Hi JohnD

    I think if you looked into the Miranda Grell case more closely than simply googling you might develop a more balanced view.

    I am extremely interested in LGBT rights and have been all my life.

    I followed the Miranda Grell case at the time and I did not believe her to be guilty. The witness statements are really vague if you read them.

    The Labour party has accepted the decision of the court but I don’t think many in the Labour party agree with it. However there is not much that can be done about that.

    Miranda Grell resigned from the Labour party and of course any real chance of a political future for her is finished.

    If she was guilty then she has certainly deserved this fate.

    Personally I don’t think she was guilty.

    You might want to criticise the Labour party for not expelling her, but I don’t think there was a widespread feeling that she was guilty of the crime and the Labour party did accept her resignation.

  33. The conservatives dont take homophobia seriously.

  34. Sister Mary Clarance 14 Jul 2010, 6:19am

    “The Labour Campaign for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Rights (LGBT) has issued the following statement: “The Labour Party has a proud record of equal rights and promoting gay equality.

    “Over the last ten years the Labour government has transformed Britain into a more equal and tolerant place.

    “We are furious that a Labour candidate, Miranda Grell, was willing to use homophobia to get elected.

    “Discussing the sexuality of her opponent and spreading innuendo about his relationship was a disgrace and made her unfit for office.

    “To also tell lies that he was a paedophile is completely unforgivable and not only affected her opponent’s political career but his personal life too.

    “While LGBT Labour has not commented during the trial and appeal, we have been in private contact with senior officers of the Labour Party to express our anger at her behaviour and demand that the Party treat these allegations very seriously.

    “Now that the appeal has been dismissed and her conviction upheld we feel it is important that party take immediate action.”

    Cllr Katie Hanson, co-chair of LGBT Labour said: “This kind of behaviour has no place in a civilised society and brings both the party and politics in general into disrepute. Homophobia is completely at odds with everything the Labour party stands for.

    “She has had her chance to defend herself and she has been found guilty.

    “Equality is not optional for Labour Party members or representatives and all forms of homophobia are unacceptable in our Party.

    Following the failure of the appeal there should be immediate action.”

    Patrick says:

    “You might want to criticise the Labour party for not expelling her, but I don’t think there was a widespread feeling that she was guilty of the crime and the Labour party did accept her resignation.”

    So the leader of the Labour Group on Waltham Forest Council (one assumes speaking for the entire Labour group and the Labour Campaign for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Rights (LGBT) think she was guilty, so can you possibly name anyone (other than yourself) that actually thought she was innocent.

    You decry this Tory councillor for matters far less serious that Ms Grell’s crimes, and are in absolute denial about her guilt.

    You really are shameless, utterly shameless.

  35. @ Jay

    A bill passing Civil Unions and a vile creature vetoing it and putting it in the same context as incest.. That is homophobia.

    Someone making an uneducated comment about ‘lispwristed boys’ is nothing more that pathetic ignorance.

    I make No apologises for Not being as sensitive as you and some of you friends but how long will it be before you lot Demand thought police just in case someone thinks the wrong thing?

  36. The peverse ability of Liebour’s trolls to ignore homophobia in their own party is I suppose typical of their general hypocrisy.

    EG The casual dismisal of sworn testimony given under oath as “hearsay” would be amusing if not so ignorant.

    What can you expect though from people who supported the grotesquely incompetent Brown (unelected dictator) despite all the evidence of his madness and stupidity.

    I never thought I’d have a good word to say about Mandelscum but his revelations about just how deluded and mad even Brown’s own cabinet ministers thought he was are a real treat!

    How were 8m people thick enough to vote for him though?

  37. Patrick James 14 Jul 2010, 11:12am

    Sister Mary Clarance quotes the LGBT Labour statement on Miranda Grell.

    Which starts with:

    “We are furious that a Labour candidate, Miranda Grell, was willing to use homophobia to get elected.

    Look at the way the LGBT Labour group responded to the conviction of Miranda Grell.

    Look at the way the LGBT Conservative group responds to reported homophobia in the Conservative party.

    Personally I don’t think that Miranda Grell was guilty. Neither do many in the Labour party.

    But even given that, look at the stark contrast in how the Labour party deals with homophobia and how the Conservative part deals with homophobia.

  38. Patrick James 14 Jul 2010, 11:26am

    Vulpus_Rex writes:

    The peverse ability of Liebour’s trolls to ignore homophobia in their own party is I suppose typical of their general hypocrisy.

    Well no, I would never ignore homophobia in the Labour party. However the problem with Miranda Grell is that there was and still is very good grounds for believing her to be innocent.

    EG The casual dismisal of sworn testimony given under oath as “hearsay” would be amusing if not so ignorant.

    But if you look at the witness statements there are really not convincing, she really was convicted on hearsay.

    “Sworn testimony given under oath” unfortunately often is hearsay.

  39. “However the problem with Miranda Grell is that there was and still is very good grounds for believing her to be innocent.”

    Patrick you really are hilarious (I say that as I can’t actually believe you are that stupid)

    So the two witnesses who swore under oath that she carried out a homophobic slander were lying then?

    And the two magistrates who found their testimony convincing and
    credible were actually deluded fools?

    The appeal court who supported all of the above, they are perhaps fools too?

    You need to learn to concede when you are wrong and not defend the indefensible as a matter of dogma rather than principle.

  40. oh jeez, poor patrick, you tory bigots sure do gang up on him, typical tories. patrick has homo equality at heart. That seems to be his priority. Scary Mary, Squigly line, and Vulva_Rex however, you have conservative economics at heart, and if there are 3 stooges who would defend their political party regardless of the issue, then you 3 win the award.

    the facts are;

    Miranda gell is homophobic, Dennis Knowles is homophobic, david cameron is homophobic, theresa may is homophobic, Ruth Kelly is homophobic, there are loads of homophobic politicians. All political parties have homophobes in them.

    Some more facts are;

    In the last tory government (79-96) they created homophobic laws which brought inequality for homos and didn’t create any laws to bring any equality for homosexuals. So the last tory government WERE homophobic in their actions – regardless of how many homophobes were in the party.

    In the last labour government 97-09 they didn’t bring any homophobic laws in, they repealed the homophobic tory laws, and brought in laws to create equality for homosexuals. So the last labour government WERE NOT homophobic – regardless of how many homophobes were in the party.

    Why can’t the tory queers just admit these facts. Why can’t they just admit that the last time their tory party was in office they did things against homosexuals. But the last time the labour party were in office they didn’t do anything against homosexuals.

  41. Vulva_rex – “You need to learn to concede when you are wrong and not defend the indefensible as a matter of dogma rather than principle.”

    It seems you teach what we most need to learn Vulva.

    Now admit that the leader of your party, the home secretary and countless other tory MPS (the list is endless), including this one are homophobic. And stop evading the subject of the story (typical tory sratergy), which is that a tory councillor made homophobic remarks, or maybe you are one of ‘limpwristed’ gay men/women that is not offended by that kind of stereotype by someone who may have political power.

  42. @ Jay

    There is One serious flaw in your arguement, I’m Not a Tory! I am a Lib Dem.

    And if you ever actually read threads properly you’d know that instead of making up rubbish to suit your somewhat warps ideas.

    Also Jay

    If you wish to live you life stuck in the distant past then I guess things will Never be great for you. I would invite you to join us here in 2010 but clearly that is far from what you want.

  43. Patrick James 14 Jul 2010, 12:58pm

    oh jeez, poor patrick, you tory bigots sure do gang up on him, typical tories. patrick has homo equality at heart. That seems to be his priority.

    Well thank you Jay :)

    You are absolutely correct that I have homo equality at heart and if I believed that Miranda Grell was guilty I would be extremely quick to say that she deserved her fate.

  44. Patrick James 14 Jul 2010, 1:05pm

    vulpus_rex writes about Miranda Grell:

    So the two witnesses who swore under oath that she carried out a homophobic slander were lying then?

    The key part of this sentence is “two witnesses”.

    I remember this story quite well from when it was reported in the papers.

    The witnesses reported statements were really rather vague.

    My own belief is that there was a lot of malicious and appalling gossip about the Lib Dem candidate but I don’t think Miranda Grell was the source of it.

    I think Miranda Grell became the fall guy for a greater problem at that time.

    I don’t think Miranda Grell handled her case very well. She was very disliked and she became obsessed that there was a conspiracy against her.

    To be honest I think that if she hadn’t started talking about a conspiracy in court she would have been cleared.

    However it is not my belief that Miranda Grell was guilty of slander.

  45. Sister Mary Clarance 14 Jul 2010, 2:00pm

    “Look at the way the LGBT Labour group responded to the conviction of Miranda Grell.”

    “Look at the way the LGBT Conservative group responds to reported homophobia in the Conservative party.”

    The other difference of course being that the Tory councillor made a comment about a few Labour activists being limp wristed and Miranda Grell made comments about a Lib Dem councillor being a paedophile. The second caused him to be threatened and abused in the street and resulted in him ultimately being forced to give up his job and his home and flee London in fear of his life.

    I strongly suspect that if the Tory councillors comment had had a similar outcome the inquiry would probably have had a different outcome.

    I would also suggest if you think the trial was so flawed you write to the presiding judge and make it very clear you don’t think he knows what he is doing, and see what he has to say on the subject.

  46. vulpus_rex 14 Jul 2010, 5:16pm

    @jay – get stuffed and try and be a bit more original if you are going to resort to stupid names.

    @Patrick – QED my point at 36 really. A court found her guilty, an appeal court supported that decision, but you chose to believe they were all wrong as it doesn’t reflect well on your beloved Liebour party.

    How do you expect anyone to take your other posts seriously if you show yourself up with incredulous nonsense like “the witnesses were really rather vague”?

  47. Patrick James 14 Jul 2010, 5:22pm

    Sister Mary Clarence writes about Miranda Grell and the Conservative party councillor:

    The other difference of course being that the Tory councillor made a comment about a few Labour activists being limp wristed and Miranda Grell made comments about a Lib Dem councillor being a paedophile. The second caused him to be threatened and abused in the street and resulted in him ultimately being forced to give up his job and his home and flee London in fear of his life.

    The key problem is that there is very little evidence that Miranda Grell made any comments.

    The rumours being spread about the Lib Dem candidate were truly appalling, it was without doubt a terrible thing, however the case against Miranda Grell was very weak indeed.

    I strongly suspect that if the Tory councillors comment had had a similar outcome the inquiry would probably have had a different outcome.

    With that I do agree with you, the Tory councillor has indulged in a very minor thing, however the statement and inquiry from the LGBT Conservatives was pathetic.

    I would also suggest if you think the trial was so flawed you write to the presiding judge and make it very clear you don’t think he knows what he is doing, and see what he has to say on the subject.

    I have seen many injustices in my time, much more significant even than the Miranda Grell case. I know very well that the British justice system is about as infalible as Pope Benedictus XVI.

    You brought up Miranda Grell, claiming that here is an example of the Labour party attempting to hide homophobia in some way.

    However the reality is that during the case the Labour party did not believe that Miranda Grell was guilty and it is difficult looking at the reports of the case to believe that Miranda Grell was guilty.

    I think that the appalling rumours about the Lib Dem candidate were being spread but not by Miranda Grell.

    The witness statements are vague.

    I don’t think there was a conspiracy against her as she herself thought, and it was her belief in the conspiracy that did for her, if you like.

    If things had been different, if Miranda Grell had been a conservative counsellor in exactly the same circumstances then I think that the Conservative supporting press would have expressed outrage at the conviction, not an outrage due to the nature of the conviction, but rather that it was achieved with such little evidence.

  48. Sister Mary Clarance 14 Jul 2010, 10:37pm

    “The witness statements are vague.”

    Patrick, you’re painted yourself into a corned and you now look a real tw@t. The count and the appeal court both thought she was guilty as sin. You read about it in the paper and based on a bit of unsubstantial reported you’re identified a miscarriage of justice.

    Keep it real mate.

These comments are un-moderated and do not necessarily represent the views of PinkNews. If you believe that a comment is inappropriate or libellous, please contact us.

Top commenters this week

Latest stories

See all