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Trans woman wins legal aid for breast operation fight

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  1. vulpus_rex 1 Jul 2010, 12:04pm

    Can someone enlighten me – is breast surgery not necessary for all MTF surgery?

  2. ChutneyBear 1 Jul 2010, 12:06pm

    Unless the poor <unt is dying they shouldnt pay for anything

  3. @vulpus – No, it isn’t. Depending on how your body responds, female hormones can do a good job of breast growth. Rule of thumb is about 1 cup size smaller than your mother.

  4. Despite Miranda Lee’s gender status, she quite clearly hates women.

    it is disgustingly offensive and misogynistic for her to make the claim that her flat chest left her ‘half man and half woman’

    Why is she being so needleesly insulting to flat chested women everywhere?

  5. Wouln’t it be great if Miranda Lee focussed the attention she will paying the NHS, to try to force them to give her a boob job, on actually doing paid work.

    She would have the money earned pretty soon.

  6. This is sadness-making. NHS leaflets from all over say that even the likes of electrolysis and wigs are usually not funded by PCTs – so why would breast implants be offered? Hormones usually do encourage the growth of natural breasts, and as StephenC says, this does cis-women a real insult too.

  7. vulpus_rex 1 Jul 2010, 2:07pm

    Well I have my doubts about whether this whole procedure should be funded by the NHS in the first place, but if they are going to do it then to be fair they should finish it to the satisfaction of the recipient.

    Telling her to shut up and be grateful for a job she doesn’t thnk complete seems a bit harsh.

  8. PumpkinPie 1 Jul 2010, 2:07pm

    because it only funds surgery for women who have suffered breast cancer.

    Waste of tax-payers’ money. Do they really need it in order to live? No. Then they should have to pay for it. Ha ha! Hee hee! Look at me, I’m being all edgy and cynical! :p Bottom line is, if they fund that “unnecessary” surgery, they should fund this “unnecessary” surgery. Of course, when PCTs routinely deny IVF treatment to lesbians, despite giving it to straight couples, I doubt they’ve quite got the hang of seeing LGBTs as equals yet.

    As for the small breasts being unwomanly thing… Are you guys not aware of sexual dimorphism? Men and women’s bodies have totally different proportions, which our eyes can spot at a glance. Lee is not calling small-breasted women unwomanly, unless they also happen to possess (literally) male bodies. And if they do, I’m sure they see her point. One of the main purposes of SRS is to allow trans people to live as normal a life as possible, by allowing them to pass as the other sex as convincingly as possible. Typical of the NHS’s target-driven, scrooge-like nature, they seem to have just ticked their boxes and sent Lee packing, caring only about having performed the procedures they were legally obliged to perform instead of making sure their procedures produced the effect they were designed to produce.

  9. vulpus_rex 1 Jul 2010, 2:12pm

    “deny IVF treatment to lesbians”

    More enlightenment needed please – surely a lesbian couple where both partners are infertile is incredibly rare?

  10. “Lee is not calling small-breasted women unwomanly”

    Well her choice of words is disgustingly offensive and misogynistic.

    And breast augmentation is not THAT expensive.

    Surely the time, effort and money she will spend on forcing the NHS to give her bigger breasts could be used to earn the money and pay for her own operation.

    As for breast cancer survivors – well they are clearly more deserving than the woman-hating Miranda Lee.

    Miranda Lee until her gender reassignment never had female breasts. And after her reassignment she had a small pair of breasts. Tough luck.

    Breast cancer survivors had their breasts disfigured because of their treatment for a disease. That is quite blatantly a more deserving case than a woman-hater who is not happy with how she looks after her gender reassignment.

    Miranda Lee is a woman-hating idiot.

  11. “Telling her to shut up and be grateful for a job she doesn’t thnk complete seems a bit harsh.”

    Well do you think that women who are naturally small chested should have breast augmentation on the NHS.

    I mean if being flatchested is so horrible then shouldn’t all women be entitled to this surgery.

  12. vulpus_rex 1 Jul 2010, 3:47pm

    Well it does rather depend on why she is in this position. If she is flat chested because of a mechanical failure of the hormone treatment then why not complete her transition with an alternative?

    If she is flat chested because “she is one cup size smaller than her mother” then I suppose she should start saving her pennies.

    Also if being flat chested does give some women real problems with image or self esteem then yes they should get help (not necessarily, but possibly surgical) – after all we don’t just abandon anorexics with the “it’s all in your head, so get over it” solution.

  13. F*ck it, I’d be happy to pay for a non-trans woman to have a boob job if she was in severe distress due to being read as a man. I wish we lived in a utopian world where bodies didnt matter but the truth is they do influence how we’re treated and how we feel inside. I suppose the same could be said about a female to male having testicles constructed – no biological need for them apart from making the body look complete – I think thats the key.

  14. Wow! Miranda certainly has issues which I don’t think breast augmentation will fix. Indeed some of them with many cis-women who don’t have as big breasts as they would like. As a post-op transwoman myself, you have to be realistic. Yes I lost many family, friends etc. during my transition as we all so often do. I went through my transition expecting to pay for my treatment instead of spitting my dummy out of the pram and suing my PCT because they classed gender treatment as low priority.

    Get a grip Miranda and stop making the trans community look bad.

  15. What a joke. The key is that the NHS doesn’t have enough money to pay for this kind of treatment – and no I don’t agree with IVF, for anyone, or a host of other things that get paid for by the NHS. I feel sorry for the rest of the trans community who will get tarnished with the same ‘i want big tits’ brush. Maybe she wants to be like Jordan? I’d like biceps like brad pit in the film Troy, and going to the gym just doesn’t seem to get them big enough. Will the NHS pay for some surgery? – maybe if I tell them I don’t feel like a man. I’d also like an 11″ nob.
    It’s sad when you think of the people in this country who are in pain, I mean physical pain and not some emotional sob story, who can’t get the treament they deserve after paying into a system all their life.

  16. StephenC

    mtfs are left more manly than cissexual women. in order to counterbalance that they need to be more womanly than the average cissexual woman. a cis woman with small tits usually looks like a woman with small tits. a trans woman with small tits can often look like a man.

    much as i’d love it not to be the case there are differences between cis women and trans women.

  17. boobjobs are given to cis women on the hs if small breasts re causing distress. this is no different.

  18. PumpkinPie 1 Jul 2010, 11:49pm

    The key is that the NHS doesn’t have enough money to pay for this kind of treatment

    Yet they can clearly afford it for survivors of breast cancer. Hmm…

    Will the NHS pay for some surgery? – maybe if I tell them I don’t feel like a man. I’d also like an 11″ nob.

    If it gets you mistaken for a woman, you might have a case.

  19. As a TS woman myself I get so annoyed with these cases. Nobody talks about the 50% of transsexuals like myself who fund our own treatment saving the NHS millions. Nobody talks about how much more productive in society transsexuals are after treatment, adding at least an extra £100,000 of tax into the nations account for the cost of a £8,500 operation.

    N, we must must always focus on the small minority of TS people, who like in wider society, are just never satisfied whatever is done for them.

    The reason sex reassignment surgery (SRS) is available on the NHS, is the suicide rate for transsexuals would be far greater than the current 34%. SRS also enables transsexuals to become contributing members of society and not a drain on society in benefits and social + NHS care. (A untreated transsexual who is socially isolated unable to work or function would cost around £35,000 a year in benefits and support from the NHS and other agencies.) That £8,500 operation seems a very good deal when you look at it in the round and not just the Daily Mail angle.

    Lets not forget gender dysphoria is the only NHS treatment that stipulates the recipient must be employed, doing voluntary work or in education.

    The NHS still treats people for free if they have:

    – Fallen off a ladder painting their house.
    – Cut off a hand doing the gardening.
    – Fallen down the stairs blind drunk.
    – Broken their neck playing rugby.
    – Given themselves severe burns lighting the BBQ.

    All are these are preventable and self inflicted, but being trans is not a choice, its something your born with and something you try and survive the best you can.

  20. “Miranda Lee, 40, began living as a woman two years ago and had her genital surgery and other treatments on the NHS last year, totalling £60,000”

    This is a made up figure, her genital surgery only cost £8,500, hormones £800, Voice coaching (therapy) 12 session £1800, genital hair removal £600 and 6 visits to the gender clinic £6000.

    Thats A total cost of £17,700.

    I’m guessing this story was in the daily mail and they have used the cost of treatment for a female to male patient because the surgical procedures cost £40,000 so it makes it look more sensational.

  21. Once again, Ms Lee has decided it is best to put the trans community on trial for the media to suck blood from :(.

    If you are trans, some of you may be stronger than others to understand the social change that occurs during transition. Where as others may wither due to the personal and emotional pain inflicted by the circumstances of being trans.

    Unfortunately, for some if you find yourself not strong enough, or do not have enough personal support (or you’ve rejected it) then you may attack everyone else to get what you want to reach your ideal.

    In Ms Lee’s case, this also appears to be a continuation of trend which started around 6 years ago when male-to-female trans preferred to have facial surgery very soon or even (in some cases) during after their operation. This is before the individual has taken then time to settle into who they are, not easy to do. There is no such thing as instant gratification with your identity.

    I find Ms Lee’s language truly digusting offensive, particularly to anyone who had breast cancer and/or who is intersex, or indeed anyone.

    Playing the victim is so last government. I’ve met people who suffer in the face of adversity whether they are bi-polar, consider themselves fat or lost the use of a limb but they carry on regardless.

  22. Liz Church 2 Jul 2010, 9:21am

    This article was originally run in an edited form in April by The Sun. Why they’ve dug it up again, who knows? Since the article was last run, West Berkshire successfully defended a case against them by another transwoman who was seeking augmentation. The figures of £60K and £8K are wildly out. £60K was recently quoted (by The Sun) in a case involving a Turkish asylum-seeking transman. Even that is a large figure for FtM procedures.

  23. No 16: Xaria: you say: “a cis woman with small tits usually looks like a woman with small tits. a trans woman with small tits can often look like a man.”


    But a transwoman with large tits can often look like a man with large tits also.

    Having large breasts does not make you a woman. Which is what Ms Lee seems to be arguing with her offensive statements.

    No 18: Pumpkin Pie: you say:

    “The key is that the NHS doesn’t have enough money to pay for this kind of treatment
    Yet they can clearly afford it for survivors of breast cancer. ”

    But surely you’re not trying to argue that a transwoman who is not happy with the size of her brand new breasts is as deserving of reconstructive surgery as a woman who has survived a horrible disease and whose breats have been left disfigured as a resulf of their treatment for said horrible disease.

    I do try to be understanding towards transfolk and their struggle.

    But selfish misogynists like Miranda Lee really test my patience.

  24. yes stephen they might but they might not. the nhs funds boobjobs to cis women who are hurt psychologically by having small breasts. this is no different. im pretty sure that some of them might have described themselves as feeling like ‘half man half woman’ but their not going to have the media all over their stories and be attacked for being mysogenistic.

    shes a woman. the matter is between her, the nhs and the law.

  25. “the nhs funds boobjobs to cis women who are hurt psychologically by having small breasts. this is no different.”

    really? How often does this happen?

    Surely the correct response to such a request would be ‘You have not been disfigured because of your treatment for a horrible disease. That fact that you want bigger tits is solely down to your vanity. Go away and pay for the operation yourself.’

    I seriously doubt many NHS trusts would offer boobjobs to women who are flatchested simply because they are unhappy with their appearance. Miranda Lee should not be treated any differently.

    She transitioned because she wanted to live her life as a woman.

    Well her dream has come true – if it so happens that she is living her life as a flat chested woman then I’d recommend she invest in a good wonderbra or else save the money for an operation.

    And she most certainly should not engage in misogynistic comments about other women.

  26. you’d have to ask the nhs how many woman a year get nhs boobjobs but it happens. im one of them.

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