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Gay Muslim groups angry at club owner’s ‘boycott Muslims’ remarks

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  1. Stuart Neyton 30 Jun 2010, 12:39pm

    He sounds like a complete idiot and has a very poor grasp of the English language.

    Both homophobia and homosexuality transcend race and religion.

  2. The URL is a link to Mark Ames’ Facebook wall comment and replies.

  3. The below URL is a screengrab of Mark Ames’ Facebook wall comment and replies.

    http://tinyurl.com/337cqeb

  4. Martin Ames needs to re-sit his GCSE English, I got lost about 9 words in to his rant. Still, nice to see us gays moving up the food chain, we’re now above Muslims, Lib Dems and the English World Cup Squad but we still have a way to go to reach the top of the pile.

  5. This is still a country where freedom of speech is a right – Not everyone will agree with his words but we have to tolerate his point of view just as we have to tolerate the hatred and bigotry that religions levy at our sexuality – or is it just another slow news day report?

  6. I agree with Mark Ames. Islam is homophobic, you can’t escape that fact. Allah doesn’t like queers. A gay muslim is a complete oxymoron. Anyone who doesn’t know that is uneducated in regards to this issue and should keep their mouth shut until they have read what the koran instructs its followers to do to homosexuals and learnt how the islamic world treats homosexuals.
    Homophobia is justified by all monotheistic religions. If this mans hate speech should not be tolerated, then islam should not be tolerated, their ‘holy’ book is the most intollerant hate filled piece of writing i’ve ever read.

    1. Excuse me! The bible says that men who live with men should be stoned to death

  7. His comments like boycotts are in my view a little silly. however i fail to see how its is ‘properly’ racist. i mean if he had said like some people i know. “im not going to america or bying american products because they are blaming the oil spill 100% on the UK tht wouldnt b racist he is simply protesting as he is allowed.

  8. Stuart Neyton 30 Jun 2010, 3:00pm

    “This is still a country where freedom of speech is a right”

    There’s a difference between free speech and hate speech.

    “Islam is homophobic, you can’t escape that fact”

    I’m no fan of islam, or any religion for that matter, but people interpret these ancient scripts differently. It’s people who are the homophobes, not the religion. I know many muslims who are fine with my sexuality, i know a couple of gay muslims too. Please keep your bigoted views to yourself.

  9. There is nothing more hate-filled bigoted, intolerant, or just plain evil than religion, history proves it, over and over, ad infinitum, ad naseum. Islam is intolerant. Intolerance should not be tolerated. That goes for all the rest of the mental midgets who cannot move beyond superstition that neither history nor real experience can validate in any intelligent way whatsoever. Liberals, not conservatives are the ones who should be against Islam. To tolerate intolerance is pure stupidity nothing more and nothing less! Agree whole heartedly on the “read the Koran” comment, the fact that there are a few cafeteria muslims, just like cafeteria catholics, they do not change the fact that the institution as a whole is an abomination that does nothing but keep the world backward and in chains.

  10. Whilst Mark Ames’ English is a little confused he has not said anything ‘racist’. A word that unfortunately is so over used most people are now anesthetized to its true base meaning and what it truly represents. It’s a word that is over used to silence any debate or difference in opinion. Whilst the protesters in E. London have the right to protest (peacefully) likewise Mr Ames’ has the right to voice his opinion (no mater how uneloquently). Islam in the form that is most visually obvious in the UK today is not tolerant. It condones prejudice, intolerance at minorities, subjugation of women and is NO friend of gay UK…

  11. de Villiers 30 Jun 2010, 4:26pm

    > that goes for all the rest of the mental midgets…

    Do you consider such language increases or decreases the weight to be given to your comments?

  12. I think this is about the track record of Mohammid’s Islam religion that is ‘followed’ or force follwed by a large section of the world’s population. There is a very loud and clear stigma attached to Islam and all that it stands for. The gay Muslim groups should understand that and realise that the sigma, that they represent, that horror filled system of living namely Islam, is at the core of this debarkle. Islam does not present anyone or anything that can be trusted in any shape or form. Obviously there are exceptions to everything. To simply assume that everyone is suddenly going to accept gay Muslins into the community, is naive at best. The Gay Muslim community has to fit in with us but keep in mind where they come from and their evil religious background (which presumably they inherited). Mark Ames is exercising his rights to freedom of speech but we should all try to get along with each other within our Gay Community. The gay Muslims must be given a chance to fit into the community but they must also be aware that there is historical suspicion and doubt about them. This does not mean that they should feel precluded or left out of the gay community but they should first look at themselves and what they represent (Mohammid’s evil Islam) before shouting their mouths off (also free speech)
    The Gay community has had so many lies, half truths, hate-speech, attacks in one form or another thrown at it that it is no wonder that some of us are suspicious. The murder, rape and torture of gays in the name of Allah is sickening and the fact that these gay Muslims have escaped that persecution is good news. I am not condoning Mark Ames actions at all what I am trying to do is understand them, as well as those of the Gay Muslims. We should not be discriminatory within our own community. It only creates division and this is something that none of us can afford at this time. If the Gay Muslims insist on standing by their Islamic religion (which seems a bit of a paradox) then they must expect some form of hostility.
    I shall probably be shot down in flames (I hope not) as a result of what I have written but I really do think that we need to stick together for the good of gays all over the world

  13. Jock S. Trap 30 Jun 2010, 4:41pm

    Heard worse…

    XXL is an excellent club, this certainly won’t stop me going.

  14. Geoff Wane 30 Jun 2010, 4:55pm

    It seems pretty clear to me on reading the reporters story that that Mark Ames was attacking only the ones who had been the problem at the anti-racist protest in east London, and not all Muslims. I think that it is about time that all immigrants to Great Britain make a big effort to learn our customs and language.If they truly want to be adopted as equal citizens then they should be prepared to accept our laws and traditions. Otherwise please go home where you will have no more problems. Like us, Love us, Accept our ways or Leave us.

  15. Stuart Neyton: “There’s a difference between free speech and hate speech.”

    So who decides where the line in the sand is drawn?
    Is it OK to call you a fat bastard, but not a poof?

    Who gets to define this semantic quandary?
    Better men than you have tried and failed.

  16. See you there Jock S. Trap! Perhaps I’ll try and find some gay muslims, I wonder would Mark Ames refuse them entry? Bet he’s never yet said no to the pink pound.

  17. musclelad23 30 Jun 2010, 5:53pm

    To make such comments about jewish businesses would be called antisemitism. To make such comments about Black owned businesses is called racism. To make such comments about Gay owned businesses would be homophobia.

    To make such comments about anything to do with muslims and we call it “freedom of speech”.

  18. God – or Allah – knows that there is a lot wrong with Islam and monotheism in general but this guy’s incendiary and hateful remarks help nobody, least of all those lbgt Muslims trying to find support and affirmation from the rest of us.

  19. Musclelad23 – think you might have got a bit mixed up. Mark Ames made inflammatory
    comments relating to a protest that became violent – apparently about anti-racism, the only link to a business is that a gay Muslim group have called for his (mark Ames) business to be boycotted. And to be fair if your point was valid, Muslims have a lot to say about gay people which is classified as ‘free speech’ which in reality is incitement to hatred. Secondly on anti-semitism – check the data, almost exclusively now all recorded acts of antisemitism are committed by Muslims and people of Asian origin.
    Facts are we live in a fragmented society where our hard fought freedoms (gay & womens) are now being attacked by vocal neo facist Islamist religious extremists – and given credence from an almost as homophobic catholic church. But incase we offend them and be levied a racist – no one stands up to them.

  20. BittaTruth 30 Jun 2010, 7:06pm

    Few things have me scratching my head more than liberal apologists for the more unpleasant aspects of Islam.

    Point out that said religion has, shall we say, somewhat unelnightened views on homosexuality and lesbianism and out they come yelling ‘Islamophobe!’ Curiously, if you’re up for a bit of verbal Christian-bashing, the same people are suddenly all on your side.

    Religious texts such as the Koran and thr Bible are full of intolerance and nonsense and were written by patriarchs who wished to purvey their proud black-and-white views to the world – they were not written to be ‘interpreted’ in a variety of oh-so-modern 21st ways. Their respective stances on homosexuality and lesbianism seem pretty clear cut to me. They. Don’t. Like. Us.

  21. Incredible. Still, positive or negative attention, he is raising his profile. That’s what being a promoter is all about. He probably would’ve loved to have made the ‘proper’ news.

    Anyway, do people who attend shallow subscene clubs like XXL really care about his politics? Nah, they’d rather know his inside leg and/or get cheap entry!!

  22. “Religious texts such as the Koran and thr Bible are full of intolerance and nonsense and were written by patriarchs who wished to purvey their proud black-and-white views to the world – they were not written to be ‘interpreted’ in a variety of oh-so-modern 21st ways”

    Maybe they wern’t, but that’s what happens. Try doing a search for “muslims against extreamism” and you’ll come up with some interesting things.

  23. I do believe that he has the right to say the things he has, and also to boycott muslim businesses if he sees fit, but then the rest of us also have the right to say how stupid, uninformed, ignorant, and xenophobic his views are and boycott XXL.

  24. Well, to be absolutely frank, having read the screengrab I have come to the feeling that he is quite an offensive man. XXL, by the way, is not a very nice place and, given the attitude of its owner, I am not in the slightest bit surprised!

  25. Mr Ames has every right to expressing himself – Freedom of Speech is a right every democracy should defend – sadly few if any Moslem countries have any freedom of speech. Anyone that denounces Mr Ames’ comments as ‘racist’ is pitifully ignorant – Islam is not a race, those that subscribe to its teachings come from all races, white, black and brown. He is voicing a view that the majority in this country feel and should be applauded. Islamism is quite simply incompatable with modern western democratic values and is threatening the peace and stability of the whole world. Our troops are dying in their hundreds to defend our freedoms – the traitors – Moslems and their stupid apologists – who do not support our brave boys and girls fighting on the front line should clear out.

  26. The illiterate moron Mr Ames should stop lumping people into one group – and learn to spell.

    On reviewing the screen shot of his facebook rant, I would like to say congratulations to Joshua Hunt who responded beautifully.

    We absolutely should stand in solidarity with the secular, liberal, tolerant muslims, the ex-muslims, the gay muslims, who need to stand up against extremists like the IFE, and the termites who have overrun Tower hamlets’ very own temple of hatred, the East London Mosque.

    I won’t have anyone hunting down any group of people like this – so say that nonsense in your own name Mr Ames, no one else’s.

    That said, we must differentiate hatred against people, from hatred against beliefs. There is NO SUCH THING as ‘Islamophobia’, you only have to look at what the holy texts say and what the relgious clerical leaders say, and also decide, what motivates the death squads in Baghdad, bali, Madrid, London, 9/11, Kabul, to decide whether it is justified to hate a religion or not. I welcome any attempt to modernise or change my mind on this – provided such arguments are made as public as possible.

    But I can say all that and defend the right of people to worship, fast, pray to their heart’s content, and if that brings you joy, you are most welcome to it. So long as I am free to have nothing to do with it, then fine by me.

  27. I’d like to know what “secular … muslims” means. I know from personal experience that there are liberal, tolerant people who were raised as Muslims, but by definition Islam is a religion and secular means non-religious. I was raised a Catholic. I believe the RC is an evil institution intent on persecuting me in every society in which it operates and I will have nothing to do with the church. That doesn’t make me a “secular Catholic”. There does seem to be an alarming trend in this discussion, and “western” thought in general, to ignore distinctions between religion and race. That said, I do not believe in any moral obligation to support the rights of any individual or organization who does not support my rights. For example, I don’t think that members of the RC dioceses, the CoE congregations or Islamic mosques in the UK should be allowed to marry in this country. They should have a separate but equal institution called, “mutual servitude” or something equally appropriate. I uphold that standard to all individuals and organizations. Before the PC brigade jump on me, I did not say that all Irish, English and Arabs should be unable to marry nor that homos who are happy with second-class status shouldn’t be able to maintain it.

  28. Here’s some islamic text that the pro muslim comments are defending.

    The Qur’an:

    Qur’an (7:80-84) – “…For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds…. And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)” – An account that is borrowed from the Biblical story of Sodom. Muslim scholars through the centuries have interpreted the “rain of stones” on the town as meaning that homosexuals should be stoned, since no other reason is given for the people’s destruction. (The story is also repeated in suras 27 and 29).

    Qur’an (7:81) – “Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you?” This verse is part of the previous text and it establishes that homosexuality as different from (and much worse than) adultery or other sexual sin. According to the Arabic grammar, homosexuality is called the worst sin, while references elsewhere describe other forms of non-marital sex as being “among great sins.”

    Qur’an (26:165-166) – “Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, “And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing”

    Qur’an (4:16) – “If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone”

    Interestingly, the same rules don’t apply in paradise, where martyrs for the cause of Allah enjoy an orgy of virgins and “perpetual youth” Qur’an (56:17) (otherwise known as “boys” Qur’an (52:24)). Qur’an (76:19) bluntly states, “And immortal boys will circulate among them, when you see them you will count them as scattered pearls.” Technically, the mere presence of boys doesn’t necessarily mean sex, however it is strongly implied from the particular emphasis on the effeminacy, handsomeness and “freshness” of the boys. The female virgins of paradise are also compared to pearls (56:23).

    From the Hadith:

    There are several lesser hadith stating, “if a man comes upon a man, then they are both adulterers,” “If a woman comes upon a woman, they are both Adulteresses,” “When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes,” and “Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to.”

    Abu Dawud (4462) – The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.”.

    Abu Dawud (4448) – “If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death.” (Note the implicit approval of sodomizing one’s wife).

    Bukhari (72:774) – “The Prophet cursed effeminate men (those men who are in the similitude (assume the manners of women) and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, ‘Turn them out of your houses .’ The Prophet turned out such-and-such man, and ‘Umar turned out such-and-such woman.”

    al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 – [Muhammad said] “Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver.”

    Reliance of the Traveller, p17.2 – “May Allah curse him who does what Lot’s people did.” This is also repeated in three other places.

  29. Mark Ames has not said the worse thing in the world. While I do not support hate of any kind or level, I think that our gay brothers who practice Islam should, if they really want to be objective and fair, balance their blames and make news conference about their many Ayotalas in the East who continuously call for the wiping out of gay people, the pope who think we are worst danger than ‘climate change’, Iris Robinson, who think we are mad, or American Phelps who preaches hate against gays. etc.

    Loathe or love it, the truth is clear; Islam & Christianity are both evil-loaded towards gays & other minorities.

    Religion is the highest dictatorship in existence. So stop excusing the so-called holy books as ancient scripts and blame the users on interpretation; that’s a lame.

    Mark’s opinion is not different from that of the God of the Christian Bible or Allah of the Koran both of whom asks their followers to not marry (boycott) certain tribes, etc… Mark just said what many people are already thinking and doing.

    Only last night, I wrote under the issue of new Australian PM that gays stand in the way against their own freedom becuase they can join to defend religion, race, etc, but will not use the same tenacity for the cause of their own freedom and rightful place in society. http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/06/30/australias-new-prime-minister-julia-gillard-confirms-shes-against-gay-marriage/# (comment 17)

  30. If this was really about homophobia, then, rather than making sweeping generalisations about one single minority, the berk would be boycotting all businesses run by anyone adhering to any of the Abraham religions; because, like it or not, they are all inherently homophobic – so, despite what his many apologists here are saying, the guy is clearly a grade A bigot and his comments are as irrational as those of anyone saying that we should deport every single British Jew, because of what Israel is doing to Gaza, or all British Roman Catholics, because of the Vatican’s response to the paedophilia of some Roman Catholic priests.

    Whether he is knowingly racist, I am not so sure about. To be honest, I seriously doubt that anyone who thinks that Mohandas ‘Mahatma’ Gandhi’s name was “Mahat Magandy” could ever truly be judged to have the mental capacity to be knowingly racist – so as likely as not he is just pig-ignorant and stupid beyond belief.

    But hey, if he really wants to lower himself to the level of a bigot calling for irrational boycotts, then I am sure that there are plenty of decent people who will be willing to engage in a reciprocal and perfectly rational boycott of him and all his business activities. Ultimately, he is the one that will suffer the most and he will have brought it all on himself.

  31. Islam is a grossly offensive stupid belief system.

    As is chruistianity, judaism, hinduism, sikhism etc.

    Religion is for idiots.

    I hate islam.

    I hate any belief system which tells me that I deserve to die.

    I do not hate muslim individuals. They should not be discriminated against based on their age, race, sex, sexual orientation etc.

    But I absolutely refuse to defend any belief system which thinks I deserve to die.

    What is the Muslim Council of Britain doing to help gay Iraqis who are being tortured and murdered every day in the name of that savagely backward belief system?

    Why nothing of course. They are the ‘mainstream’ muslim organisation in Britain and they are moronic bigots.

    The muslim faith deserves as much respect as it shows us i.e. none!

  32. But when Muslims say kill gays, kill Christians, kill everyone, kill kill kill, we just don’t bat an eyelid.

  33. This comments section reads almost as bad as the Daily Mail’s.

    Then again, I’ve come to expect nothing less from PinkNews. If it’s not one person raging about how X company is part of some homophobic conspiricy then it’s someone else bringing the political parties into it. Full of whiners who say that things should change while they sit behind their keyboards doing nothing. Cool story, bro.

  34. AdrianT: “We must differentiate hatred against people, from hatred against beliefs. There is NO SUCH THING as ‘Islamophobia'”

    Well Islam scares the crap out of me.

  35. As a gay muslim lad, i am ashamed of you Ame’s. Why do you think you have the right to be respected by others for being queer or otherwise when you hold such foul, bigoted and unacceptable views yourself. Hang your head in shame – you’ve let us all down.

  36. Mark Eames is actually right in many ways

    Islam is a vile cult with a murdering, thieving, torturing, womanising genocidal maniac Mohammed as the object

    the trouble is that most people, being naive and “good”, accord the belief system the status of a “religion”

    Once you understand how exceptionally vile the writing and beliefs of Islam are, how exceptionally deviant Mohammed was, how their history of conquest has been violent and deceitful, and then look at the state of Islamic countries nowadays, you will reach a better understanding of Islam (which mean submission to Allah and Muslims, not peace as is so often misquoted)

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com is a good place to start learning

    In the interim, Mark and sympathisers who wish to target Muslim businesses should ensure that they are, indeed, targeting Muslims and nor, inadvertently, Hindus and others who look “brown”

  37. Muslims are NEVER gays. How do you say gay Muslim groups?!!!!!

  38. Isn’t it about time that we all just lived and let live?! I don’t agree with everyone’s point of view however I do respect their right to a point of view and their right to voice it also. This is what is called democracy and if you don’t like what is being spoken, then don’t listen, simple! My boyfriend is a Muslim and I’m extremely supportive of him and his faith. I have even gone as far to buy him a prayer mat and the Qur’an for when he stays at my house. You will find that all the major religions of the world have scriptures that condemn same sex relations, however we choose to single out Islam to condemn it’s scriptures. Let’s not focus on the negative parts of any faith, rather the good deeds that are done. People are implicitly good natured and we should see the good in everyone!

  39. The wishy washy, bland mindset of utopian multiculturalism has turned the brain cells of some intelligent LGBT people into…mush. The idea of progressive Islam is a fantasy, and the very very few out gay Muslims–while they may be heroic people–are not opening their eyes and looking at the reality around them. Outside London and elsewhere LGBT people are constantly attacked by Muslim immigrant youths. This is happening all over Europe. We have a problem folks that multiculturalism won’t cure.

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