Clegg needs to get the electoral reform in the bag. It’s the only way to secure more seats in the next election. Forget about Europe; Merkel and Sarkozy will sort Cameron out in no time.
I hope the lib-dems team up with labour as the tories are not to be trusted, Cameron is pushing a thatcherite party of big society etc
It’ll be very disappointing if the Lib Dems decide to support the homophobic Tories. David Chameleon left many tracks of homophobia all over his campaign. If the Lib Dems decide to ignore all this reek, their prestige will surely fall.
The LibDems should tell Mr Cameron to shove this fluffy nonsense so called offer up the bigoted arse of Philippa Stroud. The Tories only have 36% of the vote and that doesn’t make them god. The Tories have failed, people still realise that they are the same old vile homophobic bigoted Christian protecting minority hating love the rich Party they always were. Enjoy the opposition again Eton boy.
If the LibDems can insist that Britain be transformed into a proper democracy (ie by scrapping the embarrassingly primitive ‘First Past the post’ electoral system) then I say go for it.
The Tories may be homophobic scum but at least the LibDems may be able to keep some of the more fascist elements of the Tory Law and Justice Party in check.
Labour and the LibDems have 315 seats between them. You need 323 to have an active majority (there are 644 voting MPs – the Speaker and 5 Sinn Fein MPs don’t vote). So arraangements would also be needed with other MPs – SDLP, Alliance and SNP? That’s not impossible I guess but it’s more partners than a Con/LibDem deal, and would still have only a bare majority. Whereas a Con/LibDem alliance would have a majority of 80.
“he offered an all-party committee of inquiry on political and electoral reform to look at the possibility of changing the first-past-the-post voting system.”
Not good enough.
Cameron needs to offer a guarantee of reform before the LibDems even consider his offer.
Britain is always whining about how the EU is undemocratic.
Meanwhile Britain has an unelected head of state; an unelected Upper House; and a Lower House which is selected in the most primitive, undemocratic, unrepresentative way possible.
The LibDems should also insist that the Tories break up their Euro-alliance with the Polish fascists.
This hung parliament is a great idea. The LibDems better watch to ensure the Tory bigotry is kept in check.
I doubt people voted Clegg to get Cameron: their fundamental politics are different on every single thing I can think of.
If Cleegie accepts sweeties off this man he’ll end uup getting shafter, besmirched, and have nothing to offer his supporters (or Lib/Con haters) next time
This is a catastrophic blow to the Conservative Party. he he.
Clegg-head has shown his colours unfortunately, and all of the people who voted for him in an effort to keep the Tories out will be really angry to see this pompous little man enabling a pompous very rich man to gain power when even the pompous rich man’s party must want rid of him for this massive failue to win in the fourth term of an extremely unpopular party who have had the whole of the Tory press against them. Clegg-head is and always was untrustworthy and his own party must be kicking themselves right now at the thought of him doing a deal with Cameron in this powerless situation. Uggh.
Clegg shafted us if he goes with cameron his party will be finished like lembit
Silly Billy: “Clegg-head has shown his colours unfortunately.”
Clegg showed his colours weeks ago, it was obvious that the LibDems general politic attitude was far closer aligned to the Tories than to Labour. If you were to stupid to spot that, don’t blame them for you making the wrong vote. (Oh, you voted Labour?. Now THAT’s a wrong vote! *cackle*) It’s not like he’s suddenly spun round and changed everything. I Think a Lib-Con parliament might just work, the Tories have the experience, and the LibDems have a new lighter, contemporary approach.
Hopefully it will also push for electoral reform. We really can’t have another farce like this one. Maybe then we can get enough independents to dump the EU.
Since Clegg is the only one of the three supporting full civil marriage equality, there could well be a silver lining in store for LGBT people. its quite feasible he could use this to force Cameron to join him in supporting marriage equality as a concession to other matters with which Cameron needs Liberal Democrat support. Obviously Clegg is best positioned to argue why gay people should have the freedom to marry if they so choose and he knows why, Cameron and Brown do not of course. Those of us who voted for Clegg should tell him if he wants our continued support, then he should put the pressure on Cameron to do just that.
@ Mihangel apYrs – I voted LibDem and I’d be very happy to see a coalition with the Conservatives (not with Labour). But only if there is real progressive on changing the voting system.
I think many of us (in this context) would take an opportunity to hold power if we could. The Lib Dems, while having lost seats, are nevertheless in a powerful position right now, and it’s important that the politically intelligent amongst them take their time to decide which is the very best option. I’ll be disappointed if they just go for the “do whatever the Tories say so we can have some tiny trinkets of government” option, and I hope they can upset and annoy the Tory party line as much and as well as possible. Be annoying, guys, it’s Britain’s only hope!
The Lib Dems must not join a coalition of any colour; it will besmirch them fatally. They should offer to support any minority government willing to implement STV and be ruthless enough to vote it down if it equivocates – there has been over 30 years of shilly-shallying about the issue. They can abstain on the Queen’s speech to allow a minority administration to survive the first hurdle and then haggle hard, issue by issue. But PR should be absolutely non-negotiable.
Rob N writes:
Clegg showed his colours weeks ago, it was obvious that the LibDems general politic attitude was far closer aligned to the Tories than to Labour. If you were to stupid to spot that, don’t blame them for you making the wrong vote.
Rob N is in no position to call other people stupid. I would suggest that anyone Rob N is calling stupid should look back over the previous comments in PinkNews at Rob N’s postings. That will bring much mirth.
The Lib-Dems of today are hugely far away from the Conservative party in practically all the major areas of policy:
Europe, immigration, economy, tax policies and many more.
So when Rob N writes that they are close to the Tories I would just laugh personally.
Mihangel apYrs writes:
Yes, this is absolutely true.
Yes, this is true as well.
On the subject of LGBT issues I think that the chances of the Liberal Democrats keeping any of their good policies is zero.
Cameron needs to offer a guarantee of reform before the LibDems even consider his offer.
Yes I think this is absolutely true.
The Conservatives will try to push the Lib Dems into a deal without any commitment to PR or other parliamentary reform. Nick Clegg must resist this.
Yes indeed it is!
I think that eventually they will form a government with the Lib Dems but it will be a very unhappy affair.
First signs of internal dissent to be seen in this Spectator article.
The Spectator of course says dissent must be quashed, but I suspect that increasingly Conservatives are realising that Cameron took the party from a projected 20% swing to an actual 7% swing.
The electoral campaign for the Conservatives was a complete and utter disaster.
Cameron made a huge mistake in agreeing to the TV debates.
Cameron got it completely wrong in Northern Ireland by forming an alliance with the Ulster Unionist party who won no seats, and that damaged for him any possibility of an alliance with the Democratic Unionist Party who have 8 seats.
Although the Conservative party will be doing everything it can now to keep dissent quiet on the basis that they are in a difficult position eventually it will start to surface.
A comprehensive offer .. which, if accepted, will leave what tragically little progressive credentials the Lib Dems have in taters, and render them totally unelectable for another generation.
And with both the Tory scum and the Liberal Democrats unelectable …. bring on the next election.
Very true imho.
Yes this thought had crossed my mind.
If Nick Clegg falls for this then he will seem like Cameron’s lackey, then when the Conservative party roll up their sleeve to get started cutting away, creating large unemployment, giving to the wealthiest etc. Nick will be there either voting with the Conservatives or at best abstaining just to stay in power.
I really can’t see it lasting for a very long time.
We voted Nick Clegg to keep the tories out in the first place???
what the hell he up to?
The Lib dems are naturally centre left to labour so naturally they should join Labour and getting rid of Gordon brown
If They do join with the tories I for one will never vote Lib dem again
I can assure you the colition will not last above 12 months and the next election the Lib dems will be all but wiped out and it`ll serve them right
the tories are rearguarding against election reform, the only thing that will allow the true feelings of the voters to be acknowledged.
The 2 party system evolved in about 1640, and worked (ish) until 1920. Since then minority views have been ignored.
If the tories committed to electoral reform I’d be happy with Cleggie in bed with Dave; but if the democratic deficit isn;t addressed why vote, wht not burn down the Palace of Westminster??
There is a way we can keep up to LibDem action.
Join DELGA: http://www.delga.org.uk/index.html
Who knows; maybe we can actually influence their action!
I joined and I’m Canadian, eh !!
Hi Jean Paul
Thanks for this link . . . I will take a look
If Nick Clegg forms an alliance with the Tories, he will almost certainly not be able to take his party with him because idealogically they are so different. On the other hand, if he forms an alliance with Labour he will go back on his word AND prop up a discredited government and prime minister and that will almost certainly destroy his party.
My opinion? He should form an alliance with no-one. Gordon Brown will then have to resign and David Cameron will have to form a minority Conservative government. Why do I think this is right? Well, I reckon the LDs would have much greater power that way as they could veto almost all of their legislation, including the emergency budget due in 50 days of Cameron’s appointment as PM.
In this respect, they would have a moderating effect on their policies and, hopefully, bring them down within the next twelve months.
Ignore the markets. We don’t have elections for them. We have elections for us: ordinary people.
Rob ‘em is clearly a Tory, so no need to go into too much detail about brain power or rather the lack of it (spelling mistakes are always rife in the Dogmatics’ comments though). However, for his information, I didn’t vote for the Liberal Democrats and would not have done on the basis of their policy, which was only further underlined by Nick Clegg’s abysmal performance and attitude on those presidential debates when he made it perfectly obvious that he had undertaken training in “listening-skills” and “retaining peoples’ names skills”, but, frankly, little else. In fact. my initial sense was that he was just another extremely ordinary little man who thinks he’s god. Then, there was an article about him reading Beckett’s Waiting for Godot a hundred times, presumably to suggest he has intellectual prowess, which only supported my initial sense.
No; I am amazed that the Liberal Democrats would even consider a coalition with the Tories given that members who voted for them wanted something very left of centre, and that is definitely not on offer from Cameron who, frankly, has failed massively, on a fourth term election, to get the kind of majority he needs.
Seems that an awful lot of voters saw Cameron for what he is, an excessively spoilt and petulant little man who admires Thatcher and is a right wing bigot in the truest sense of the words.
So, Rob’ em you were wrong in your estimation of me, but you are not terribly good with your estimations of people generally are you? Or did you forget to vote for the incredibly persuasive (sic) Tory party?
I agree with your idea that there is a large disparity ideologically between the Libdems and the Tory’s. Although, I also agree with Rob-N’s earlier comment about the foundations of the Libdems; and their evolution from the “Wigs” which historically would position them closer to the Tory party . . . this is very important as Rob-N points out, and I agree.
However, when the liberal party joined forces with dissenting factions from the Labour party; and the Labour party moved closer to the centre. As I see it, the new formed LibDems now became an amalgamation of these new conjoined ideologies; and began to move off centre towards the left. This is why I support your view as accurate, since it is also my understanding of the situation
Ursus262 . . . you might be interested in the following link with resonates with your ideas, the article is concerned with the raise of the “Militant Tendency” in the Tory Party; now that the veneer of liberal democracy has failed to win them the election outright. The idea behind the article is that the “Militant Tendency” in the Tory’s cannot be suppressed any longer . . . now that their slick leader has slid them of course into a potential minority coalition with incompatible bedfellows. – So to speak
An interesting article which actually mirrors what I’ve been thinking for a long time.
“Lying behind that question is a larger doubt about what kind of party the Conservatives have become. The media have largely accepted Cameron’s claim that under his leadership the party has changed fundamentally. Actually the changes imposed by the Tory leader and his small band of modernisers have been slight and superficial compared with those that were imposed on Labour by Blair.”
“There is a great deal that is misleading in the soft-focus image Cameron has projected of the Conservatives. If it means anything, the “Big Society” is code for a retrenchment in public services exceeding anything dreamt of by Margaret Thatcher.”
Both these extracts reflect exactly what a lot of people, gay or straight, must be thinking. The Tories may have the greatest number of seats, but their advances at the election is hardly a clear sign of approval from the people of Britain.
The first past the post system, while broken, is capable of doing one thing right: reflecting massive changes of desire about who is to run the country on their behalf. It happened in 1979 when the Tories won a landslide, and again in 1997 when the same thing happened to the Labour party. I’m afraid this time, the outcome is not so clear, and that tells its own story!
Patrick James: “The Lib-Dems of today are hugely far away from the Conservative party in practically all the major areas of policy: Europe, immigration, economy, tax policies and many more. So when Rob N writes that they are close to the Tories I would just laugh personally.”
Laugh all you like. These are the facts:
silly billy: “Rob ‘em is clearly a Tory, so no need to go into too much detail about brain power or rather the lack of it”
“So, Rob’ em you were wrong in your estimation of me, but you are not terribly good with your estimations of people generally are you?”
Well you are clearly a fcukwit, and your estimates of people are even worse, because I would never vote Tory. I would have voted LibDem but for the fact they are Pro-Europe like the others, and I personally believe that the EU the single biggest problem this country has today. For that reason I voted UKIP.
I’m wondering if a Tory/LibDem coalition will enact the the parts of the Equality Act that apply to the gay community when they come up for enacting in 2010/11.
They should go with Labour? What Labour who only had a decent showing in the election thanks to Electoral Fraud?
You lot are so interested in changing the Electoral System so that it’s more fair but want a coalition who represent less than 50% of the vote and who’s leading Party lost nearly 100 seats during the election? A fairer system if it is most fair to your chosen Party?
I wanted A Con/ Lib coalition but gave up hope of it early in the Campaign. Looks like I’ve been taught never to give up hope.
Oh and if you want to see a Major Party fvcking over the Lib Dems then I’d suggest you look up the infamous GROT Campaign. In 1997 the Lib Dems joined with Labour to have a Nationwide Campaign of Tactical Voting to Get Rid Of the Tories with the promise of Electoral Reform. Lib Dems sacrificed their own Party and got nothing in return, Labour went back on it’s promises. The memory of this runs deep with the Lib Dems.
What’s the betting there will be a re-election within a year? As for the disgraceful with some voters being turned away from the polling stations, this sends a very bad example of our election system around the world. This is nothing more than incompetency and not democratice.
I agree with you SimonM (No.7), out of all of the western EU member states, the UK is probably the most undemocratic of all. I’ve long been an advocate for abolishing the House of Lords altogether as well as the monarchy and state cult, all are anachronistic and irrelevant to a modern 21st century society and make a mockery of democracy.
Well done Rob’em, you clearly voted as intelligently as you write . Hope UKIP are still flying high in your estimation. PS I didn’t say you voted Tory I said you are a Tory. However I obviously ommitted to say that you should leave your finger up your arse until your brain kicks in next time.
Here’s a suggestion Bob: the problem with people being turned away from Polling Stations was caused in the last hour or two of voting when there was a sudden huge surge in the Labour vote. So why did everyone turn out in the last hour or two? There wasn’t that high a turnout throughout the day for the stations not to cope and then suddenly…Electoral Fraud anyone? It was heading straight for a Tory Landslide until this strange sudden surge.
Oh and BTW: you did know that the Unions and bosses in the Civil Service gathered everyone after Lunch on Thursday and told them that if they didn’t vote for Labour they would loose their jobs? I know people in the Civil Service who experienced this.
@ theotherone: Those are the most absurd accusations I’ve ever seen! For one thing, none of the people I know who were turned away from their polling stations at 10pm were going to vote Labour. And how can you possibly claim that the Tories were heading for a ‘landslide’ until the final hour of voting – are you psychic or something? Also, think about the implications of your accusations – what you’re saying is that thousands of Labour voters were denied the right to vote. So if this so-called fraud took place as you describe it, wouldn’t it be in the Tories’ favour, in fact?
Also, how can you force anyone to vote for any particular party? No one is watching you when you put your cross on the paper… Your disappointment at the Tories’ lack of an outright majority seems to be affecting your powers of reason.
the problem with people being turned away from Polling Stations was caused in the last hour or two of voting when there was a sudden huge surge in the Labour vote. So why did everyone turn out in the last hour or two? There wasn’t that high a turnout throughout the day for the stations not to cope and then suddenly…Electoral Fraud anyone? It was heading straight for a Tory Landslide until this strange sudden surge.
That’s the funniest thing I’ve read in a long time.
That’s the second funniest thing I’ve read in a long time.
Those are the most absurd accusations I’ve ever seen!
Yes, Charlie I agree but you can expect stuff like this from theotherone, Rob N and a couple of others.
theotherone’s statements are so ridiculous that it is hardly worth going through them.
Rob N writes:
Okay, I am laughing because of course Rob N has supplied this link to apparently support his earlier assertion that:
Clegg showed his colours weeks ago, it was obvious that the LibDems general politic attitude was far closer aligned to the Tories than to Labour.
But the link only backs up that the Lib Dems are far away from the Conservatives on most issues.
Going beyond that short list of things in the BBC site, the Lib Dems are about as far away as you can be from the Conservatives in the following:
In fact just about every major area of political life!
Here is something which I think will be of interest to quite a few here.
In this Observer article:
David Cameron Faces Tory Party Anger
It is revealed that Michael Ashcroft is:
furious with Cameron for doing TV debates and a lack of support over the ‘non-dom’ status row
A Conservative senior front bencher has:
rounded on the Conservative leader, demanding that he sack key figures involved in the campaign, including the man who ran it, George Osborne, the shadow chancellor.
Another Conservative senior front bencher has described Cameron’s “Big Society” as:
I’m beginning to think that David Cameron is going to do a deal with the Lib Dems over electoral and parliamentary reform which might be worthwhile.
The reason I’m thinking this is that David Cameron is such an obvious two faced opportunist desperate to be Prime Minister. He will sell out on his own party, his own people without a moment’s hesitation.
If so, the ructions in the Conservative party will be spectacular.
I would imagine the Observer is right; I wouldn’t have been too pleased if (at the fourth term of a political party, with millions of pounds spent on a campaign, with colleagues who believe they have the right of inheritance) I was in that party which is now having to choose main losers of the election to do a deal with. Nor will many, many voters be pleased to think they got shot of a Tory by voting Lib-Dem only to get a Tory back. Makes a mockery of voting, and then there will be complaints that the turn-out is low next time.
Why waste time and money; let’s have another election right now!
Why haven’t we heard from QE2?
Officially you won’t hear from QE2. She can only get involved if no party forms a Government. Then through he many secretaries she has to invited one leader and asked them to form a government.
Technically if Gordon Brown decides to act to form a minority Government he can actually bypass asking the Queens permission being that he is still, all be it ‘acting’ Prime Minister. He would only go to Her Mag if, or rather, when he has to resign.
I hope a Lib-Tory government can be formed. I think it’s clear that Labour need to go and re-group. It’s Gordon Brown I think people Don’t want and that is another issue they need to sort out. The last thing we need now of all times is more uncertainity. We need stability.
A memo written by William Hague has been leaked. It reveals the Tory’s true colours and shows us all now, once and for all, that Call-Me-Dave has been nothing but window-dressing, a detestable lie. The Tories have an agenda which is in line with Philippa Stroud being Head of their Centre for Social Justice.
“we are committed to returning powers from the European level to the UK in three key areas – the Charter of Fundamental Rights, criminal justice, and social and employment legislation.”
See the whole article at the link below and notice how the arrogant Hague fully expects to be the new Foreign Minister on Monday and has taken it for granted that Call-Me-Dave will be Prime Minister.
Here is the proof then. Hague has spelt it out. The Tories intend in the coming weeks to withdraw the UK from all EU regulation regarding the Charter of Fundamental Rights, criminal justice, and social and employment legislation.
That’s the rights of all we non-religionists and LGBTs down the drain.
That’s back to church on Sunday for Britain.
That’s all sorts of businesses granted the right to slam the door in the faces of LGBTs.
PLEASE COPY OF THE ABOVE AND EMAIL IT TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW.
WE MUST MAKE SUCH A CLAMOUR ABOUT THIS THAT THE LIB-DEMS IMMEDIATELY DITCH ANY NOTIONS OF FORMING A COALITION WITH THE NASTY PARTY.
When the new election comes along ,which probably won’t be that long away, whether it’s libdem-con or libdem-lab plus any old party that’s willing to tag along with them to get any majority, then I sincerely hope that lab improve on their gay manifesto and be a little bit bolder in what they are offerring us. Gay marriage is numero uno and if you didn’t notice their support in the gay community remained unchaged, they didn’t gain any further support from us, we went for the greens and lib dems…. if they want my gay vote labour , they need to start promising more radical ideas like gay marrigae otherwise like the’ve conned us with Irag and the econnomy we won’t believe them that they are the gay friendly party…….
that’s terrible Eddy and it shows how the tories are still homophobes
Chester, I believe, that the Tories have been privately saying to each other something like:
“It is out duty to return this country to solid old-fashioned Christian ways of working and to get rid of the politically-correct legislation that Labour has introduced in the last thirteen years. This is our God-given duty and we must achieve it. However in order to carry out God’s will we need to keep quiet about it and simply press ahead with it as soon as we get back into power. We know that it is the right and proper thing for this country so, in the meantime, to win the election, we must keep stumm about our real feelings on the rights of Christians versus the rights of gays. Once we get in we’ll get things back to how they used to be.”
We now have the evidence. For all those deluded gay Tory-loving supporters on these pages who have been insisting that the Tories have changed, we now have the evidence that they have not. They intend to seize back complete control of judgements concerning fundamental human rights, criminal justice, and social and employment legislation.
Why? Because they don’t like the freedoms that we have acquired.
We need to really kick up stink. TODAY!
INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT DECISIONS ARE BEING MADE AS WE SPEAK.
It was scary from the outset, Cameron is a wolf in sheeps’ clothing anyway; observing his petulance during leader question times etc, you could see the primitive teeth baring through the rictus grin. It was the attitude of someone who believes he has the right to govern. It was inevitable that they would want to pull out of Europe too, they are Europhobes, and any laws made in Europe that they are forced to subscribe to would affect their aristocratic status. These people are not negotiators; they believe they have the inherent right to tell the “masses” what to do and what to think. We are all still living in tied housing as far as they are concerned.
We need another election, and I think this time people would not be so persuaded by the whole of the media (on and offline apart from the Mirror) that Labour is a dead duck and not worth voting for. If I was Gordon Brown I would want out as well. He must get really pissed off with people who cannot see through his lack of photogenic qualities and who blame him for a global collapse of banking systems when it was the Tories and the Republicans who started to leave the banks open to this sort of robbery from us. He has worked incredibly hard, has not ripped people off in the same way as many MPs have, put up with life under Blair in the promised land for so long and has to tolerate the snide bleatings of people who don’t have a clue what genie they may have just unleashed. I hope that Clegg does not compromise the LibDem party, or that the Tory “grandees” tell Cameron where to stuff his alliance-to-save-his-own-bacon. I believe it would be a disastrous alliance. I think what we have to accept is that none of the losers can govern effectively and a new election is necessary quickly.
Sure I’m lieing…
We where only 16,000 votes away from a majority for the Tory Party ( http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7120733.ece ) and international observers are deeply concerned that there was widespread Electoral Fraud ( http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7120738.ece ) and there was already concern over Major Electoral fraud in four Labour wards (you’ll find traces of this story all over the internet) and now we have reports of Houses Of Multiple Occupancy which (apparently) had upwards of 40 voters.
As to how the result was going: based on reports coming back from polling stations and Exit Polls up until 6pm. I’d suggest that you hang around the blogsphere next Election and you’ll find out just how these sorts of things are done.
There was wide scale Electoral Fraud in this country and we all know that if the Election was run again it would be a Tory Majority.
As to Tory Homophobia: I have no doubt you are correct but I’m quietly confident that the Lib Dems will push for a more Liberal attitude.
Yes, but “gays” aren’t better off with labour are they. I’d prefer to be a gay at Eton than a gay at the the Rhondda local comp. I’d feel safer going into the cons club hand in hand with my boyfriend than the local working mans club in the Rhondda… and before you say , but the Rhondda elected a gay man, the Rhonndda would elect my dog if he stood as a labour MP and would probably get the plaid cymru votes as well becuase he’s Welsh and has a Welsh name. Labour are offerring nothing radical for gays, most gays don’t fear the cons ,they do think they will be worse off even if they don;t think they will be beter off , the cons used the word “consider” gay marrigae, the cons promised a tax break for CPs, cons lesbian and gays were also elected. Lab has to re-assess why they LOST…and to get the GAY vote they need to be preceived as the most gay friendly party which they are NOT! – Haven’t you lot got it yet!
theotherone: ‘we all know that if the Election was run again it would be a Tory Majority’.
The fact that the LibDems and Tories have been so quick to negotiate has annoyed members of both camps. So if anything, if we had another election tomorrow, both those parties would both probably get even fewer votes than they did on Thursday. Certainly anyone who voted LibDem to keep the Tories out is unlikely to risk doing that again.
i think the problem on here is that people can’t accept that Labour lost the Election on a massive anti-labour vote.
Alan: ‘I’d prefer to be a gay at Eton than a gay at the the Rhondda local comp.’
What’s your point – do you really think all schools are going to be like Eton under the Tories?!
- ‘to get the GAY vote Labour need to be preceived as the most gay friendly party which they are NOT!’
Is this a joke post? Labour passed more pro-gay rights during their 13 years in power than any other party in British history, and the Tory party opposed them every step of the way. Compare this to the previous Tory administration, which introduced legistlation which only oppressed gay rights (ie, Section 28, and refusing to equalise the age of consent).
Eddy: “Here is the proof then. Hague has spelt it out. The Tories intend in the coming weeks to withdraw the UK from all EU regulation regarding the Charter of Fundamental Rights, criminal justice, and social and employment legislation.”
Well that’s a good start then. Then we can detach ourselves totally, legally and fiscally from that bunch of money-leeching idiots and start ruling our own damn country again.
Alan – Lots of silly red herrings swimming through your message. What a minority elite culture such as that of Eton does re gays is an irrelevance to a historical comparison of the Tory and Labour parties’ records, legislatively and in terms of attitudes, to lgbt people and their rights. Conservative resistance to lgbt equality and Labour support for it, however incomplete, are beyond doubt. And as a working-class Northerner I need no lectures about the poisonous bigotry that the culture I was born into is capable of. But it is a fact that the party which has historically represented the working class (though not so much recently) is generally more progressive in its social attitudes than the class it was set up to champion.
If you have found a Conservative club which you could safely enter holding your boyfriend’s hand I suspect you are singularly lucky – I would be very sceptical about that re most of them. And, as is the case of Labour, while I’m prepared to accept that most Tory politicians are less socially prejudiced than their supporters, their record on lgbt rights suggests that the grassroots are scary indeed.
Wells – fight is always between Cons and lib dems , cons usually win, lab – no-one interested in them there at all – lib dem won probably becuase ex MP had neg publicity over expense claims. Election in years time, new cons MP, cons wins again as usual. Lab in total disarry, discontent over party leadership…. come on we can all come up with predictions and scenario… LABOUR LOST, get over it, start planning for the next one and get some better policies in particular gay ones… WE don’t believe you, some of us come from working class, labour run constituencies and its not a nice world for gays and it hasn’t changed…..
What alternatives do with have . . . ?
Lib – Lab – SNP- Plaid Cymru – Ulster Unionist – COALITION
Perhaps with a new Labout leader
theotherone: ‘i think the problem on here is that people can’t accept that Labour lost the Election on a massive anti-labour vote.’
People like who? If that’s not aimed at me, you’re wrong: I didn’t vote Labour!
It seems to me that if anyone is having trouble accepting anything, it’s you who is refusing to accept that the Tories didn’t win a working majority, with all your conspiracy theories about electoral fraud. Given how massively unpopular the Labour government is, it’s a testament to how untrustworthy the Tory party is that they still couldn’t win this election. I suspect there were a lot of people who loathe Labour but still voted for them because they see the Tories as representing something even worse.
SNP??? Oh my. Hello honophobia…
What about Green support?
And yes, a new Labour leader, for sure.
Creative thinking again, JK!!
Even without electoral reform, it is quite simple really. If the Liberal Democrats support, or even just abstain from voting on, the Conservative emergency budget to be presented within 50 days; they will in an instant render themselves a dead and unelectable force in British politics.
The only offer the Conservatives can present to the Liberal Democrats is one that is the political equivalent to suicide .. and Labour and the Greens will be laughing all the way to the ballot box come next October.
If the Liberal Democrats really want to forget that better than 60% of the population voted against the Conservatives, then good luck to them; but the electorate will pass judgement on them and they will be out in the wilderness with David Cameron and his bunch of neo-Thatcherite bigots.
Sure the International Observers think there’s been Electoral Fraud, the Police are investigating Electoral Fraud, two people have been arrested but sure it’s a Conspiracy Theory.
I’m happy the Tories haven’t got a Majority, I’m happy that they’ll not get away with their homophobic bvllsh1t. Unhappy they didn’t get a Majority? I’m fvck1ng ecstatic about it mate, fvck1ng ecstatic.
we all know that if the Election was run again it would be a Tory Majority
If it was run again, there would be a new tactical alliance, the Liberal Democrat vote would vaporise and Milliband would be celebrating an historic outright Labour majority in terms of both seats and percentage of votes.
PaulSW: Labour where in power where they not? They where in power, unpopular and only got 28% of the popular vote. 60% voted against the Tories? No mate 78% voted against Labour.
Your post misunderstands the feeling of the public on this. Two polls this weekend show a majority support the Lib/ Con pact – over 60%. Get with Democracy mate.
‘i think the problem on here is that people can’t accept that Labour lost the Election on a massive anti-labour vote.’
Such banality. Labour didn’t lose the election. They came a relatively close second in an election with no winners (with the possible exception of the Greens, who made an historic breakthrough) – something of an achievement for any party that has been in government for so long.
Dream on Paulsw: a majority support a Lib/ Con pact and a majority want Brown to stand down.
Your fascistic disgust at the Democratic process disgusts me.
theotherone, you really haven’t got a clue what happened in this election, have you?
Labour didn’t loose? They lost nearly 100 seats and only held on to others after very, very dodgy Postal Votes and HOM’s with upwards of 40 people per flat where counted in.
Labour didn’t loose the Election but came a close second? Only one person can win the Election mate, no prizes for second place.
78% voted against your much loved Labour Party but Brown still sits in Downing Street issuing threats to Nick Cleg.
Dream on theotherone.
A majority support a Lib/ Con pact? Really? Dream on .. a representative majority of Daily Telegraph readers, perhaps. Look at other the other polls and they are massively in favour of a progressive coalition, excluding the bigoted Conservative scum.
You silly little man.
78% voted against your much loved Labour Party but Brown still sits in Downing Street issuing threats to Nick Cleg.
Given that I don’t love Labour and didn’t vote for Labour, that one comment shows that you are yapping out of your anus.
Also, it is rather tragic that you need to pimp the threats line, which even the Liberal Democrats have claimed is a complete fabrication.
Go off and dream about your beloved Tory homophobes forming a government – but don’t come sobbing to us when it all goes horribly wrong, the recession bites again and your dole isn’t enough to live on.
This is so New Labour paulsw – you do not understand that what happened is the Labour LOST as in they got less votes and less seats than another Party. Less votes and less seats = came second = lost.
Shall I draw you a diagram to explain this?
Wait a minute…
Here’s a diagram: http://generalelection2010.timesonline.co.uk/#/Results
here’s another one: http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/maps_and_graphs/2010/5/8/1273313982420/Graphic-election-2010-fin-001.gif
Get (literally) the picture?
Who can really work in a coalition ?
Who has experience of working in a coalition
Who has produced stable politics working a coalition
***Liberals – Labour – SNP – Plaid Cymru – Ulster Unionist***
The Conservatives have no experience of coalition politics
Courtesy of Dave Richards
“Follow this link to vote on you think should form the new government:”
***Courtesy of Dave Richards
LibDem Head Quarters has asked for a Facebook group to be started so they can get an idea of how many people do not wish the LibDems to get into bed with the (homo-hating and Fundamentalist Christian) Tories.
Please go and join if you don’t want a LibDem coalition with the Tories, and would prefer a LibDem coalition with Labour (most probably with a leader other than Gordon).
I don’t claim unemployment paul, I run a company with my Partner.
Now as to the claims on here that he Lib Dems are having second thoughts or think that a Facebook group is the way to test Public Opinion (oh please Labour will you stop this bull!) – they’ve already said they’ll be announcing a deal tomorrow and getting it down on paper over the coming days.
In addition Gordo’s flying back to Scotland and (according to Party insiders) has sent an email thanking everyone for all the work they’ve done. Sounds like a ‘goodbye’ to me.
Polls by Populis, You Gov and polls by the Scotsman before they lent their weight to the Coalition all saying yes, you saying no. Are you lot willing to bend to Public Opinion and bank your fires for the next Election Campaign or are you going to scream you want the result of the Election overturned? Over 70% against Labour, over 60% want Brown out.
It’s all over now, accept that a Lib/ Con Alliance will limit the worse excesses of the Tory Homophobic Back Benchers and we can start talking about something else because this has got boring.
Lib Dem headquarters are relying on Facebook rather than Populis and You Gov.
Oh and as to the Queer Vote going to Labour – does that include Kemptown that has the highest concentration of Queer people in Britain but went Tory?
LOL Dude, if you run a business, then I am the Pope.
What sort of business do you run?
This sums up the situation rather nicely; JohnK seems to have foreseen it:
Being gay was still illegal under labour until a private bill by Steele (lib dem), Wilson (lab) didn’t go into the EU Heath (cons) did, CPs weren’t introduced in the UK until 8 yrs after lab was in power, the bill was written by Lord Lester (lib dem), Brown tells us Bryant is working on EU recognition of te CP but this was initiated by the lib dems and greens a year prior and a communist Italian prospoed it in the EU shortly after ,Brown tells us that Straw has got CP recognition in FRance on a par with marriage, no this isn’t correct it was a socialist and greens senator bill and passed by the right wing UMP party… We’re told by Pinknews that lab vote remained steady during the campaing and lib dems vote increased. THe labour really did NOT make any inroad on their GAY!! vote, their GAY manifesto stunk and if they want to improve on it then they need to introduce GAY MARRIAGE , they need to be seen as the MOST gay friendly party which they are NOT , I believe pinknews have said the Greens are. Bronw says that gay marriage is NOT possible becuase of relgious issues, the labour gvt interferred in a Austrian (Guardian 2008) and I believe argued that marriage should be only the traditional one betweem people of the same sex. Lab LOST and I hope that this is a kick up the butt and that they finally realise that something more radical like Gay marriage would have got our votes…. Convince us and we’ll vote for you, most of us are not pro Tory but are currently pro lib dem/green. Stop being so arrogant and accept that you lost and you need to look for another solution, you’re not getting more gay votes!!!!, remember your popularity didn’t improve. Whether a lab-lib dem plaid cymru etc coalition does get set up it really would be a coaltiion of the desperate and diverse, the true power would be with SNP and plaid cymru ,without them you don’t have a healthy majority, what a democray , giving power to the minor parties….
isn’t that always the way Alan? Power goes to the Minor Parties?
The Lib Dems have always shown themselves to be Pro-Queer, I thought that they had given up this position but I’m now convinced that they didn’t want to ‘scare the horses’ in case this eventuality arose. I look forward to a progressive period as the Lib Dems push for more Rights under a Coalition Government. We may not get Marriage but we won’t get Labour’s pathetic caving in to the Catholic Church.
Oh and I run a Recruitment Company invoicing nearly £1.5 million a year with my Partner (if you felt you needed to know.)
Sorry but forgot to add Plaid Cymru (if they are added to the coalition of the desperate and willing and they WILL have a say in a majority vote in such a coalition) represent rural farming areas, and guess what Farmers do NOT like EU regulation, they hate it (all those extra forms when they could be doing what they should be doing ie FARMING!) , they DO NOT have a serious gay manifesto – LGBT rights under this kind of coalition will be weak!
Alan youre talking about class not sexuality. if a working class gay couple went into a Tory club they would leave wih mental rather than physical bruises. labour ain’t great but remember in the early 90′s we were treated like lepers police would harass us, raid bars and we could loose our homes and jobs with no consequences. our lives are much better now. marriage is for gay men seeking respectability face it your conservative peers will never respect you married or not.
Queer Rights are doomed under anything other than some kind of Lib/ Con pact. Latest news is that this may be an agreement to back each other’s key policies and draft bills together in key areas in return for votes rather than a formal Coalition.
Watch this space!
dean: you are, i presume, saying that Labour relegating us to second place in society is acceptable because you don’t think marriage matters? Don’t be so arrogant! It matters a hell of allot for some people and Labour obviously think we’re second class citizens.
Have you seen the footage of Clegg addressing the crowds today in London, assuring them he is all out for Proportional Representation! History is in the making.
Britain’s savage Tally-hoes are throwing up all over the place!
There’s a revolution underway and the Tories will finally all DIE DIE DIE DIE!
Hip, hip, hooray. They are in their death-throes NOW, at this moment!
The writing is on the wall!
Thanks for attaching the link
I like the way the main smaller parties are outlined . . . I am trying not to get into “Soothsaying” so to speak
You’ll be putting up a shingle next!
This really is a strange situation: England is stumped!!!
Anew election is the only way out…after electoral reforms.
And that seems impossible too.
I wonder if QE2 is choosing her hat for her next public appearance.
Eddy: I didn’t see that footage. Can you provide a link? As far as I’m aware they’ve spent all day in talks with the Tories.
Oddly I was looking here:http://news.sky.com/skynews/Article/201005115628344
There’s no mention of a deal with Labour there. Indeed Clegg met with Gordo for under one hour. Hardly points towards a deal being struck does it?
Thing is…the Lib Dems going with Labour would finish them as a Party. A Collation of 6 parties wouldn’t last to the Queen’s Speech and as over 60% of the public want Brown to resign (ie. want either a Tory minority government or a Tory/ Lib Dem pact) then they would have ruined their chances of being elected for a generation and in the election to come the Tories would win. I think you’ll agree that some form of Coalition or pact with the Tories is their only way forward.
Couldn’t LibDems remain independent and let Cameron govern with a minority government??
A Lib/Con coalition is…unnatural! he he
unable to post this due to a falt in the system (happens with safari sometimes…)
In answer to your question JP:
They could go for a system (I forget the name) which would mean that they collaborated on policy arias where they agreed and didn’t vote each other down.
This would be better for those who wish to stay ‘pure at heart’ but would leave them with little influence outside a few defined Policy Areas. I’d prefer them to be at the heart of Decision Making and stopping the worst excesses of the Tories becoming reality.
We will see shall we? Looks like it will be one or the other as NC and callmedave where popping out for secret talks tonight again (and, sorry to disappoint those wishing to usurp the result of the election, that was after he’d met Gordo.)
And then there’s this:
A major obstacle to Lib/Con coalition, wouldn’t you say?
To be fair, you’re right…at this point it’s anybody’s guess; but if this is the best the Conservatives can do after so many years of Labour’s “outrageous policies”, what does it say about Call-me-Dave but that he is taking the beating of a lifetime?
But I’m not bitter…he he
To be honest the result of this election stinks.
Two people have been arrested already, the international observers say that there’s a better than even chance that there was widespread electoral fraud.
Without the dodgyness there would have been a Tory Majority (not the best thing in the world but the will of the people none the less) but we work with what we have and get on with doing something about the state of the Nation’s finances before we’re all fvcked.
oh and JP: I’ll have a look at that link later.
I’m setting up a friend’s computer right now and hanging the washing…
You have a clothesline!!!
I’ve been asking my partner for a clothesline for years, but he doesn’t want the neighbors to see our private things.
Yea, well, I have my own neurosis…he he.
No, we have clothes horses. We live in a flat (a very nice one overlooking a Site Of Special Scientific Interest) so no room for a clothes line. There is one in the garden but it has three flat’s bird feeders hanging from it and was only used when one of the neighbours had a small fire and had to wash the smoke out of their curtains.
Oh… we live in a little house on the outskirts of a small city with a panoramic view of a harbour…a dream come true for us…and our three neighbors have clotheslines.
Speaking of small fires, we do have an outdoor metal fireplace in our backyard (garden) where we make ‘campfires’ in the evenings and look at the Milky Way while singing the Galaxy Song from Monty Python’s “Meaning of Life, Part I”.
…all together now…”Just remember that you’re living on a planet that evolving and revolving at…la-la,la-la, la-la…
that’s orbiting a sun that is the source of all our power…
But I’m getting too old to tap-dance now, he he.
ahem..and speaking of politics, wouldn’t Dave have had his way if the SNP had had their way at the last election? Scotland is almost all Labour…go figure.
Some people were born into millions, and some others made their millions under a sort of policy or another. Some are more fvcked than others. Those who are heavily indebted must be expecting the Tories will elaborately bail their humongous debts out. Not in the name of the already suffering working and lower classes.
A Cabinet post for Iain Duncan Smith is part of the price the Conservative Right is demanding for compromises needed to secure a deal with the Lib Dems.
David Cameron has been told that he must hand more ministerial jobs to right-wing Tories, including a full Cabinet position for the former Conservative leader.
so cameron must pander to the bigots who he claims don’t run the party? his reaction will be interesting, if he does he makes a a lie of all the claims the tories have changed
Bobbett – as you note many will only care for themselves which is part of why the tories shouldn’t have ever gotten back in! plus that the tories want to reject the rights equality laws etc
After the neg news about the tories in Pinknews, when polled in pinknews the swing went from the cons to lib dems, not lab. Whatever coalition/agreement we get lib dems are there, we win…..I just wish Lbour LGBT and its supporters realise that we’re disappointed by labour’s progress on LGBT issues in recent past… We’re confused by their answers and reasons against gay marriage, they sound very similar to what we’d expect a tory MP to say. Arguing in a foreign case that marriage should only be the traditionl one between memebers of the opposite sex and saying that they won’t bring in gay marriage because of relgious issues is CONFUSING to us… and doesn’t equate to gay equality.
I’ve been told that admitting you have a fault/problem is the first stage at a cure. Anyway any coalition invloving lab just won’t have a healthy majority and will sooner or later fall over….
that sounds lovely JP. We have a wood burner out there and this New Year we stood around it with a blue moon* in the sky filled with joy and hope for the coming year.
Nothing like a nice location, good neighbors and a back garden with a wood burner or fire.
*a blue moon did indeed occur this New Year’s Eve.
‘Not in the name of the already suffering working and lower classes.’
You mean the ones already impacted by Labour’s shockingly regressive taxation policy and the Depression we’re still under? I’ll never forget Edd Balls laughing at the poor in Parliament.
As to Right Wingers in the Cabinet: let them come in. In a less than secure Government without a large enough majority to push through unpopular policies they’ll be powerless.
I find this astounding. Darling saying that the Tories and Lib Dems need to reach an agreement today because we need a Government. I’ll tell you what mate – if Gordo steps down we’d have a fvck1ng Government within the fvck1ng hour and we could work out exactly how it would work over the next few days.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/09/supreme-court-gay-lesbian-asylum-seekers – 9th May
Labour LGBT – get your own house in order – that was the message from this election!!!
“UK policy on gay and lesbian asylum seekers challenged in supreme courtLaws that mean gay and lesbian asylum seekers can be deported to countries where they face persecution under scrutiny”….
“The hearing comes weeks after a new report on the treatment of lesbian and gay claims for asylum found that the refusal rate was 98%, compared with 73% for asylum claims generally.”
there’s a vocal minority of people on here who think that regardless of what Labour do we should vote for them and that they have a Divine Right To Rule.
A period in the Political Wilderness will do Labour a hell of allot of good. They need to regroup and reform the same way the Tories did after 1997.
Alan Nos. 46 and 80, I totally concur with your statement! Both aren’t prepared to support full equality starting with marriage. If Brown and probably Cameron really believe that its tied up with religious freedom, then they they don’t understand the distinction between religious and civil marriage. I find it rich considering Brown lambasted California last year in its repeal of same-sex marriage. What a hypocrite! He needs to be reminded of that, ditto Cameron. I’m glad I didn’t vote for either, they don’t deserve it and have yet to earn mine in the future. Hell will freeze over before that happens.
The result is interesting because both the Liberal Democrat and Conservative parties are themselves coalitions.
The Lib Dems are a combination of the classic, market liberals on the right of the party and the more left-leaning interventionists. The Conservatives combine social conservatives, social libertarians, Keynesians and those who were monetarists.
The right wing of the Lib Dems overlaps with the left and libertarian wings of the Conservative Party.
“ahem..and speaking of politics, wouldn’t Dave have had his way if the SNP had had their way at the last election? Scotland is almost all Labour…go figure.”
Jean-Paul I think the Scottish have just the “One” Conservative MP.
Basically, Scotland do not do Tory’s – so to speak
Oh…so no matter what, the Scottish would not have supported DC.
What confuses me is that the SNP are basically a separatist party, and I don’t understand why their homophobia is downplayed. As far as I know the SNP are in tight with the RCC so it’s no wonder that gay kids are being stabbed to death on the street. Infuriating.
I guess that’s neither here nor there, but I was just waiting for a chance to spit on the SNP’s homophobia, since nobody else seems to be doing it. In fact, there’s so little input from Scotland here.
But what I meant was that if the SNP had had their way and separated from the UK at the last election, then Cameron would have waltzed into 10 Downing Street with a wide grin on his face.
Always grateful for your insights though. Gros merci.
The problem with the Lib-Lab alliance is that it would have to be bulked up but the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland parties that the rest of the UK had no part in voting for. Therefore surely undemocratic.
I’ll have to agree with 94.
The results of this election stink; un point, c’est tout.