Nick Herbert is being dishonest because the Conservatives are equating the respective relationships as being that the parties are members of common European parliamentary groupings. The Conservatives alliance with the Polish Law and Justice Party goes far deeper than simply being in the same Parliamentary grouping.
First it is relevant to look at the make up of the Conservative Party’s parliamentary grouping, the European Conservatives and Reformists (ECR). It is tiny comprising:
Conservative Party 26
Law and Justice 15
Civic Democratic Party 9
In addition there is a small number of individual members.
We can see that in the Conservative Party’s ECR the second largest party is the extreme right wing and homophobic Law and Justice Party.
The ECR is chaired by Michal Kaminski who is a notorious homophobe and anti-semite from the Polish Law and Justice party. Michal Kaminski was given this position as chair by the British Conservative Party. As a consequence of his chairing the ECR Michal Kaminski has been made a member of the Conference of Presidents.
So, the Conservatives are not only in bed with homophobes in the European Parliament but actively promoting them to high positions in that parliament.
Labour is a member of the Party of European Socialists (PES) which has very many parties as members. In the PES there will of course be tiny parties with homophobic views but they are of very little consequence because they are such a small part of the PES.
The Lib Dems are in the Alliance of Liberal Democrats in Europe (ALDE) which like the PES is vast and will contain a few tiny homophobic parties. They are tiny of course and will not have any significant influence in the grouping.
As part of the programme of white-washing their role in Europe the Conservative Party has played this game of finding some tiny party in the PES or ALDE and saying “there, Labour or Lib Dems are allied with them” but as I have pointed out this is just silly and dishonest.
The Conservative Party has promoted the extreme right wing and homophobic Polish Law and Justice party in the European parliament in a way that is unprecedented.
The immediate victims are the LGBT people in Poland. LGBT Poles who in all walks of life will suffer from the promotion of the Law and Justice Party by the British Conservative Party.
The rest of Europe will suffer because the Conservative Party has been working to make an extreme right wing homophobic party “acceptable”.
Tradition versus tolerance in the heart of Europe:
Diana Voxerbrant presents a documentary about a country undergoing dramatic democratic changes.
”There is a violent political struggle in Poland focussing on one of the very cornerstones of democracy: Gay Pride marchers stand off against homophobic, stone-throwing fascists on the streets, whilst simultaneously in the corridors of the Polish parliament they try to prevent the parades from taking place at all.”
Besides the fact that, unlike the tory allies, these parties make up a tiny proportion of both the Socialist and Liberal groups, ALL members of Labour’s Lithuanian ally (Lietuvos Socialdemokratu Partija) and the member of the Lib Dem’s Lithuanian ally (Lietuvos Respublikos Liberalų sąjūdis) voted to condemn their own country’s homophobic section 28-like law. The Tories themselves abstained on this vote. Nick Herbert is lying to himself.
What Nick Herbert and others who put forward this argument fail to see (because they are stupid) or deliberately ignore (because they are liars) is that there is a difference between being a member of a grouping that, like all groups, just happens to have a few lunatics (as is the case with Labour and the Liberal democrats) and deliberately leaving such a group to form a new group with swathes people who you know to be lunatics and then compounding the issue by deliberately engineering one of the lunatics into the leadership of that group – causing your own candidate to resign in disgust (which is what the Conservatives have done).
Liars or idiots. You decide.
1) I can’t understand anyone who’s gay hating themselves enough to vote Tory
2) I can’t understand anyone who’s gay hating themselves enough to be a member of the Tory party
3) I can’t understand anyone who’s gay hating themselves enough to be mates with Dave Cameron
4) I can’t understand anyone who’s gay hating themselves enough to support their stance in Europe and siding with homophobes and anti-semites and racists.
In otherwords Vote Lib Dem on Thursday
#5 Because they are stupid enough to believe that the Tory party
will help them stay materially and financially wealthy.
Forgot to add, that they probably will, but remove their rights in favor of whichever bigot deigns it.
For all those that choice to bully and discredit me:-
Mervyn King has just put my exact thoughts, points I was trying to make. Though I don’t think as drastic as 30 years, I still think the point is Very valid. So whoever is in next time is going to be Very unpopular not matter who it is. They may Very well be out for a Very long, long time.
So the point is whoever wins the next election will be Very unpopular and will probably be out of government for a considerable amount of time.
Who do you what out for a ‘considerable amount of time’?
The Tories? Or Labour?
Please think seriously about this before slagging me off again.
Do you want the prospect of nothing happening to gay rights, nothing more, nothing less, with quite possibly a Labour government afterwards?
Do you want the likely prospect of a Labour government, out of office again for a Very long time?
My Choice… Tory…
Then maybe Labour?
shut your eyes if you want too…. I will not!!
Think very carefully about it people!!
Think about it hard and please tell me I’m wrong
he’s only telling this lie cos the tories we’re caught out
The Tory-loving PinkNews always posts the same photo of Nick Herbert – a photo which is very flattering of him. In real life Nick Herbert is nowhere near that good-looking. But that’s PinkNews’s bias, yet again. But we’re all onto it. Endless articles about the Tories with endless good pics of Tory candidates.
Well done, Patrick James, for posting that excellent critique at the top of this thread.
Like it or not there was a swing to the right in the last euro elections so I guess we’re stuck with them in Europe and I guess we’re probably stuck with very little LGBT rights coming from Europe until there is a swing the other way. From personal experience the lab government did very little for our fight for rights in France and as the guardian points out their record in Austria isn’t something to be proud of, on the other had we had plenty of support from the lib dems and ALDE group in Europe – here’s what the guardian had to say http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/dec/09/civil-partnership-rights-austria-uk – “The government attempted to prevent same-sex couples in other countries from gaining the right to enter into civil partnerships, the Guardian has learned.Despite the fact that civil partnerships are recognised under UK law, the government made legal submissions to the European court of human rights arguing that Austria should not have an obligation to provide the same rights to same-sex couples there. The move is at odds with its own professed commitment to equality for lesbians, gay and bisexual people” … “The government was challenging the claim of an Austrian couple, Horst Schalk and Johann Kopf, that Austria has violated their right to a private and family life, the right not to suffer discrimination, and the right to marry” …”There is no positive obligation to create a structure for legal recognition or registration of same-sex relationships,” it said, claiming that in other countries any such obligation may be out of keeping with the social, cultural and religious norms and traditions.”This was a very peculiar intervention for the UK to make,” said Nuala Mole, director of the Aire Centre, a human rights group also intervening in the case.”…. the government is still arguing that the court should not require European states to allow marriage for same-sex couples. It has told the court that the right to marry refers to “the traditional marriage between persons of the opposite biological sex … There is not an evolving convergence to the effect that persons in a same-sex relationship should be allowed to contract a marriage.”
And from one of the previous comments, no I don’t want to wake up with anther term of lab and Brown … what a truly depressing thought…I don’t “hate” my fellow straight folk nor myself as a person…
I would hope that in the event of a Tory government Nick Herbert would be promoted. He has, clearly, had to work hard to try and convince LGB people that the Conservatives have changed and are trying to work in the favour of the gay community.
So Herbert wants to “advance gay equality?” Such as? I doubt if he’ll publicly support same-sex civil marriage. That’s about the only obstacle left to gaining full equality. Neither the Tories nor Labour support it. Cameron said he’ll “consider”it but you can take that to be code for…NO which means he believes, just like Labour, that we should remain separate and unequal, legal segregation. Now how unprogressive is that? Unions other than marriage are now passé if you now look at the same-sex marriage trend now in eight soon to be nine countries come 2011 that far outnumber other types of unequal unions across the board.
@Squidgy: ‘He has, clearly, had to work hard to try and convince LGB people that the Conservatives have changed and are trying to work in the favour of the gay community.’
Er, would you mind explaining what have the Tories EVER done to help LGBT people? And what they’re going to do? There is no mention of LGBT rights in their current manifesto.
Even the Tory party’s gay members hate gay people. According to their press office, 20 of their candidates in next week’s election are supposedly gay or lesbian – but nine of them are too self-loathing to actually come out and name themselves!
Good point, Charlie. Do you remember, months ago, we were all informed that at this election there would be a massive number of gay and lesbian candidates! Ha, ha, HA! We knew that was ridiculous then, and now it has been proven to be ridiculous . . . for there is NO massive number of gay and lesbian Tory candidates at this election, is there.
And we know why.
Vote tactically, everyone. Find out who is most likely to win in YOUR constituency. And if the Tories are in with a chance in YOUR constituency, then put your vote behind whichever other party has a chance of beating them in your constituency. Remember it’s the overall number of constituency winners that will determine which political party wins in the corrupt electoral system that we currently have.
Where is it written that if your gay you Must come out for your job. In any case didn’t we fight to stop being defined by our sexuality to do a job. If they choose not to be open, so what? Is it going to change how they do the job? No.
Why is that gay people hating gay people? So let me get this straight, you want equality, you want the right to choose but again gay people to gay people aren’t allowed those freedoms?
Yeah, why doesnt PN use this pic of Herbert?
#9 “Think about it hard and please tell me I’m wrong”….okay I thought about it hard, yes squidgy, you are wrong to vote tory.
Please Squidgy, just admit the tories are homophobic. You’re starting to sound like you have mental problems.
Cameron – tory leader makes allies with one of the most homophobic parties in europe, and votes againts repealing scetion 28. HOMOPHOBIC
Grayling – tory home secretary thinks it is okay for businesses to discriminate against gay people. HOMOPHOBIC.
Lewis – tory defence minister thinks that gay people should be discriminated against because he thinks we are speading HIV. HOMOPHOBIC.
Hague – tory foreign secretary ordered every tory MP to vote against the abolition of section 28. HOMOPHOBIC.
Kenneth Clarke – tory secretary of state also voted against repealing section 28 and was in the cabinet when it was introduced. HOMOPHOBIC.
george osbourne – tory shadow chancellor also voted against repealing section 28. HOMOPHOBIC.
Below is some lib dem research……
Ten out of 32 members of the shadow cabinet voted against at least one piece of gay rights legislation. The shadow Europe minister, Mark Francois, voted against all four.
• David Cameron, Kenneth Clarke, Mark Francois, Chris Grayling, William Hague, Francis Maude, Patrick McLoughlin, Andrew Mitchell, George Osborne and Sir George Young voted against legislation to repeal section 28, which had banned local authorities and schools from “promoting” homosexuality, in 2003.
• Nineteen members of the shadow cabinet joined the attempt to block the equality bill, which included a requirement for all publicly funded bodies to promote equality.
• Seven members of the shadow cabinet voted to allow only heterosexual married couples to adopt in 2002.
• Four of the shadow cabinet voted against powers which passed through the house in March 2007 giving the secretary of state the ability to bring in regulations with a new definition of discrimination and harassment on grounds of sexual orientation.
• Thirty-five Tory MPs voted to allow only heterosexual married couples to adopt in 2002 and a third also voted against the Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations in March 2007, allowing the government to make regulations defining discrimination and harassment on grounds of sexual orientation.
The list goes on. WAKE UP SQUIDGY. Stop defending this right wing party, they are homophobic – FACT. I guarantee that you will feel bad and really stupid in a few years when you realise what every one is telling you on pink news is true.
it’s a bit of a stretch to think that tory LBGT hate other LBGT!
the hate only applies to the ones so deep in the closet they vote against equal rights and deserve to be outed
“Jan 6pac”, excellent research! Save a copy and keep it for future postings, here and elsewhere! :-)
Meanwhile, let me repeat my own piece that exposes the Tories’ complete lack of integrity on LGBT issues:
In 1999 William Hague sacked Conservative frontbencher Shaun Woodward for refusing to back the party’s stance that Section 28 should not be repealed. (Remember that the Tory’s Section 28 of 1989 effectively gagged any employee of a school from giving any impression to students that homosexuality was OK.)
In 2000 while David Cameron was campaigning for the seat of Witney he wrote a letter in The Telegraph attacking Shaun Woodward for his pro-gay stance. He also attacked Tony Blair too for his being pro-gay rights. These are Call-Me-Dave’s actual words from that time: “The Blair government continues to be obsessed with their fringe agenda, including deeply unpopular moves like repealing Section 28 and allowing the promotion of homosexuality in schools. . . Blair has moved heaven and earth to allow the promotion of homosexuality in schools”. Do you really believe that the leopard has completely changed his spots simply because he now needs our votes and is saying, “Trust me!”?
In 2003 David Cameron MP fought against and voted against the Labour Government’s repeal of Section 28 in the House of Commons.
By 2005 Say-Anything-Dave has done a complete turnabout and he tells the BBC he’s delighted Section 28 has been abolished! He told a BBC journalist: “At the end of the day, one section of our community did feel discriminated against by Section 28, and so I’m glad on that basis that it’s gone”
In 2008 Cameron voted against a law making it easier for lesbian couples to have IVF treatment. He says that this issue goes to the heart of his message that Britain’s society is broken. Are we now to believe, just two years later in 2010, that Cameron no longer believes that “Britain’s society is broken” and that we LGBTs are not to blame for it?
In 2009 Call-Me-Dave decides to appear at a gay pride event and say sorry to us for the ban on anything that might be construed as a positive view of homosexuality in schools. He said “Yes, we may have sometimes been slow and, yes, we may have made mistakes, including Section 28, but the change has happened”. It was an apology but there was little real remorse in it. Was it not just a clever preparation for wooing us for our votes in 2010?
Having delivered this “I’m weally weally sorry”, just two months later in 2009 Tory MEPs refused to go along with a cross-party European Parliament vote to condemn a homophobic law that had been passed in Lithuania!
Then earlier this year, in 2010, in his interview with Attitude, Call-Me-Dave criticised the Church of England over its attitudes to homosexuality and called upon the Church to accept equal rights for gays.
But a little later, in April 2010, Call-Me-Dave’s Shadow Home Secretary Christopher Grayling is revealed by The Observer newspaper as having said that he feels sympathy for those businesses who wish to turn gay, lesbian, or transgender people away – despite it being against the law to do so. Cameron fails to discipline his colleague and a few days later yet another Tory candidate, Andrew Bridgen, says much the same thing as Christopher Grayling said. Cameron similarly fails to discipline Bridgen. Both Grayling and Bridgen continue as Tory candidates in the election despite having shown support for the “right” of businesses to turn gays, lesbians, and trans people away.
On April 10th 2010, Call-Me-Dave sought to woo gay and lesbian voters in an article written for PinkNews. He said that if they were in Civil Partnerships they would be eligible for the £3 a week he was promising to married heterosexuals (provided they are on a low wage). He also promised the possibility of “a clean slate” to anyone who had a “gay-sex offence” on their records. The only other thing he offered in his article was the sentiment that he was “heart and soul” behind gay rights and that LGBTs should simply trust him! However, Call-Me-Dave’s record since he ditched his seven-year position as Director of Corporate Affairs at Carlton Communications (a major media company) to “find a seat” in politics does not inspire confidence.
On 13th April, the Tories published their manifesto. It was completely and alarmingly without specific plans to progress and preserve rights for LGBTs. Throughout this very long and very carefully prepared document there is not a single section of any length devoted to how the Tories will assist the LGBT minority.
On 14th April, Christopher Grayling, the man the Tories would have as their Home Secretary, sought to reverse the damage he had done to the Tories as a result of being secretly recorded as saying that he feels sympathy for those businesses who wish to turn same-sex couples away. He went on Channel 4 and said that “I don’t think that people who are gay should be turned away”.
On 27th April it was revealed that Tory candidate Philip Lardner wrote on his website “The promotion of homosexuality by public bodies . . . was correctly outlawed by Mrs Thatcher’s government. Toleration and understanding is one thing, but state-promotion of homosexuality is quite another.” In the run-up to the election these words and others were hastily removed by Lardner. He was criticised in 2008 for calling the racist former leader of Rhodesia Ian Smith his hero. Lardner was quickly suspended by the Conservatives and Call-Me-Dave tried to curry favour with the LGBT community by comparing the Tories with the world’s worst anti-gay political parties. He said that at least the Tories have “gone further than many other parties around the world.”
Vote tactically, friends. Vote for whichever party will stop the Tories winning in YOUR own constituency and that will help to stop them winning overall.
Jay 6pac: “Cameron – Tory leader
makes allies with one of the most homophobic parties in Europe, and votes against repealing section 28.”
Both the Labour andLibDems have equivalent alliances with other countries with poor human rights records, such as Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia. Alliance does not indicate total support.
“Grayling – Tory home secretary thinks it is okay for businesses to discriminate against gay people
He gave his personal opinion, IN PRIVATE. That was not a public admission, and whether you agree with them or not, Christians are also voters. One has to try and appease the majority.
“Lewis – Tory defence minister thinks that gay people should be discriminated against because he thinks we are spreadingn HIV. “
Are you saying that Gay men are not still proportionately the most high risk minority of any social sector in the UK? That isn’t rumour, that is a FACT. Claiming that gay men are at the same risk as everybody else, is not only a lie, it is downright fvcking irresponsible and dangerous.
“Hague – Tory foreign secretary ordered every Tory MP to vote against the abolition of section 28. HOMOPHOBIC.”
How come it took the Labour government SIX YEARS to abolish section 28 after they gained power?
“Kenneth Clarke – Tory secretary of state also voted against repealing section 28 and was in the cabinet when it was introduced. HOMOPHOBIC.”
“George Osbourne – Tory shadow chancellor also voted against repealing section 28. HOMOPHOBIC.”
Section 28 was a badly drawn-up bill as a knee jerk reaction to the “loony left” that was actively promoting homosexuality and rubbing middle Britain’s nose in the fact. I, and most others want EQUALITY, not promotion.
The way many lefty councils were pushing the agenda way above it’s acceptable boundaries was bound to piss a lot of people off, and it did. Section 28 was the result. It was an over-the-top reaction to an over-the-top situation.
May I also point out that this was over thirty years ago, and you socialist scumbags STILL dredge out the old standbys at every possible opportunity. The Tories are NOT homophobic. That said, I don’t think are particularly pro-gay either.
The truth of the matter is gay people are not at the top of their priorities at the moment, and certain factors such as the fact that Britain is neck high in debt, overrun with immigrants, have two major wars on our hands, and the European Union is bleeding us dry are significant factors as to why a bunch of whinging, selfish, bleeding-heart old queens worried about a fvcking bed and breakfast are not quite numero uno at this point in time.
All three leading parties have WAY bigger fish to fry, and if you seriously consider that any LGBT person is going to base their vote purely on a party’s gay-friendly status, then I’m afraid you are in for one massive shock come next Thursday night.
Rob**N wrote “the “loony left” . . . was actively promoting homosexuality and rubbing middle Britain’s nose in the fact”.
You are one deeply screwed-up and bigoted person, Rob**N, and you know that dozens on here have told you that over the months.
Produce your evidence.
Who specifically constituted “the looney left”?
What specifically did those people do to actively promote homosexuality? Where and when? Dates and times, please.
What is wrong with promoting homosexuality? Homosexuality is a good thing. Why shouldn’t it be promoted? Or do you sadly accept that you are intrinsically disordered and ought to be treated as a piece of second-rate vile filth?
Get thyself to a gay psychiatrist pronto!
Well done, Patrick James – very nice comment – and I agree
Rob N, you’ve got the makings of a Troll even if you aren’t one, if only because you pretend to be asking a question but then you ignore a comprehensive answer when you’re given one. You’ve asked before, on another thread, ‘why did Labour take 6 years to repeal Section 28 if it was so important to them’ and you’ve been given a full answer, only you did a runner from that thread and didn’t respond. So I’ll just repeat what I said then:
“Rob-N, you ask why it took Labour 6 years to repeal Section 28. I’ll remind you. You were around at the time.
The first attempt the Labour government made to repeal it was in 2000. William Hague, then Tory leader, had already sacked Shaun Woodward from the shadow Cabinet when SW opposed Hague’s policy that Section 28 should be kept. In 2000, the Tories’ former leader in the House of Lords, Baroness Young, organised the (then) Tory majority of peers, to vote against repeal, and keep Section 28. So the Tories blocked repeal in England & Wales during 2000.
But in 2000, Labour succeeded in repealing it in Scotland, which by then had a devolved parliament, despite the Tories and their backers there spending heavily to keep the rotten law. In England & Wales, the Labour gov’t kept on pushing to get S28 repealed and succeeded in 2003, but the Tories fought it all the way, with their deputy leader Baroness Blatch running another attempt to derail the process (Young had died in 2002, Blatch died in 2005, both from cancer. Maybe that’s karma).
So you wonder why repeal took time ? Because the Tories tried to block it, every step of the way. Tory boys on here have said we should forget S28, that it was 20+ years ago. The truth is, it remained relevant to our lives until just 7 years ago, because of the Tories.
Meanwhile, David Cameron, for all his suposed friendliness, keeps all those Tory bigots in power around him. William Hague is still there, so’s Iain Duncan Smith; Grayling and Lewis remain on the team. Hague fought to keep S28, Tory peers voted to keep S28, Tories in Scotland wanted to keep S28. They want your vote – but they never once gave you theirs.”
Got it this time, Rob N ? Only to be honest, I’m sick of the abusive and frankly gay-hating language you and the other Tory/UKIP/BNP voting bullies who dog this site make about LGBT people, referring to us as ‘scumbags’ and ‘a bunch of whinging, selfish, bleeding-heart old queens’ – to be blunt, your phobic, ageist, gay-demeaning language is disgusting, but it says far more about the muck and bitterness inside you than it does about anyone else.
You’ve also been given a full rebuttall of your allegation that Labour and the LibDems in Europe have ‘equivalent’ alliances to the ones the Tories have with bigots and homphobes, the biggest difference being that the large LibDem and Labour Euro groupings have tiny numbers of members with illiberal views, members who are not given promotion, and there’s no attempt to ignore the facts and pretend they are paid-up progressives. Whereas the whole Tory-led group in Europe is plastered from top to bottom with bigots and homophobes, the Tories do all they can to promote them into high office, and the Tories tell lies, pretending their allies aren’t ‘phobes – then bung poor old Nick ‘I must love being spat on by bigots’ Herbert off to try to make them appear a bit less objectionable. Oh yes, and Labour and the LibDems fought the last Euro elections with their allies known, while the Tories waited until after the vote to walk out of the mainstream and jump into bed with their vile present allies – proving that they seek your vote on one platform, then reveal their true colours later.
“What specifically did those people do to actively promote homosexuality?”
Unfortunately Eddy, “promoting homosexuality” is a term used by the religious and conservative right as a demeaning and scaremongering term to disguise what it really is: the promotion of equality. “Promoting homosexuality” tries to insinuate that gay people are “converting and corrupting” the youth of today, when in fact what it is in reality is education to hopefully prevent people from tying some poor innocent teenage to a fence and berating him to death just because he’s gay.
Its just nothing but tragic when gay people start using the term themselves. Anyone afraid of equality is usually more afraid of losing their power to control others, which is why the religions are so threatened by it.
It is very interesting how the political scene and the demographics of party allegiances have shifted so radically over the last 5 years – the Labour Party is no longer the party of the working class who feel Labour have betrayed, ignored and belittled their concerns so have deserted it in droves to vote Conservative, UKIP, or BNP. Labour now relies on the left-leaning minority within the middle class, concentrated in public service an education occupations who have largely been cushioned from the economic and social melt-down the working classes have born the brunt of.
It is ironic that the upper classes and working classes now have far more in common politically and the left-wingers in the middle class who once championed the rights and well-being of the workers have now abandoned them completely, holding them in contempt to pursue a cacooned utopia (though some will still pretend to portray themselves as working class which they sooo are not!).
Ironic, and very sad.
W’re not living in a very homophobic country if you haven’t noticed. Most of these comments are so petty and won’t worry most gay people , most gay people don’t want to see Brown’s fugly face again on Friday and they want to see a strong economy again like straight people. Neither lab nor cons are stong in Europe and the lab govt have said that they have no influence over soverign countries and can’t interfer with their internal affairs , so who care what party they’re allied with , when getting recognition of the CP in France they couldn’t give a bugger , they don’t get how their own people are treated in foreign countries, the only gay issue that is important to me in the UK is gay marrage and neither lab or cons will make difference, so why would I reward lab and Brown with another term when he’s taken us to 2 wars and broughts us to the brink of disaster in the financial and economy world, are you nuts, are lgbt issues more important than that in the UK, what serious issues are there left….. the issues are in Europe and the world and lab are crap at international issues….
It seems some of you Labour Party “Trolls” need to get your bias message out from within these threads.
I visited several pubs (in London) the last two nights and for most groups of people the upcoming Election was the hot topic. Some of you are going wet your wee panties when you hear that a large majority of gay people said they were very unhappy with Labour and planned to vote some Lib Dem but mostly Conservative on Thursday. What was nice is that none of them got verbally ‘attacked’ and ‘abused’ for saying so.
Squidgy, you accuse everyone else of being a bully but the fact is, you’re one of the worst people on this site for making abusive, bullying and demeaning remarks about others, you post really off the wall stuff that insults and abuses gay people who don’t share your point of view.
What I’ve seen over the last few weeks on this site has included a lot of dishonest posts claiming that Labour has done nothing for gay people and that voting Tory is some sort of ‘obvious’ solution, coupled with a blank denial of the fact that over the years, the Tories have consistently and vehemently opposed gay rights and law reform and that even at this election, the Tories are running a lot of candidates with established track records of homophobia and abuse towards LGBT people. Maybe your drinking buddies should read things like http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/02/conservatives-philippa-stroud-gay-cure and see that the ‘modern’ Tory party has nutjobs who think gays have ‘demons’ in them, who want to pray over us to ‘cure’ us, who chuck young vulnerable gay people out of their ‘Christian’ might shelter, who imagine that their God claims the life of another girl and causes her early death.
If you want to vote Tory because your ideals are purely economic, that’s really ok. But to pretend that there’s no contingent threat to the rights of gay people from that action, to pretend that Section 28 was a long time ago and doesn’t matter, to ignore the fact that all those Tory homophobes are still there – and to ignore the fact that the last Tory government chose specifically to demonise gay people and create a climate which favoured homophobia as a way of furthering their social objectives – well, that’s just plain dishonest.
Squidgy – I think your comments are realistic , my crowd aren’t tories but they aren’t stupic, they would all feel really depressed to get antoher term of lab and Brown, we’re all sick of them, the majority probably would like libdems but anything ie a change would be better than lab for another terms, let us have new ideas, new people … lets give another party a go…. no-one of us think the tories will make gay rights worse in the UK, with the CP were more or less equal to straights now…. we don’t feel like second class citizens and tories won’t take this away….who cares if there are homophobic comments from some of them, they’re a dying breed and whenever something homophic comes out from anyone of them, Cameron shots them down….Vote lib dems or tory please, anything but the same old thing
Yet again your post is based on personal lies. What a load of rubbish.
Most decent people on here will see past your (libelous) lies, clearly from some of the support I have recieved.
I know your making your claims just because someone thinks differently to you on this election. You seem to think lying and intimidation is going to make me go away. Well like with all school yard bullies like you, I Will stand up to you.
Like all bullies they don’t like it because somehow it means they don’t have complete control. The rest of your thread proves that. Somehow they seems to threaten something, though for the life of me, I can’t think what.
I ain’t going nowhere…. End Of!
For your information they weren’t my ‘drinking buddies’. It was from people in groups around me or outside. It was interesting to here, why am I not surprised I get attack just for telling people here what I heard.
When are you going to get used to the fact that not Every person thinks the same? And that includes gay people too!!
I have said plenty of times I am a life-long Lib Dem but this Election I feel I have to make a difference to get Labour out.
I have never said Labour do nothing for gay rights, blimey I wouldn’t be Civil Partnered without them but it’s everything else in the last 3-4 years I diagree with. Apparently With some on here I get the feeling I’m supposed to forget everything else and just vote because of gay rights. David Cameron has said repeatedly that they won’t go and that he disagrees with the churches stance on homosexuality. Therefore I can feel happy voting Tory this time, the first time.
My vote is mine to make, not DavidW’s or anybody elses. Mine. I make my mind up for whats best for me just like everybody else.
I have Never bullied, abused or otherwise. I have had to stand up for myself, more than I should have had. Pink News has removed nasty comments aimed at me as clearly they felt they were wrong and to be honest I have never come across such hatred that some on here seem to feel is justified Just because someone else feels differently to them.
I would like you readers comments on what I have posted in my blog below. I would very interested in this revelation and how this sits with the original article. Thanks.
I must point out that I reckon the average age groups I heard was between about 30 – 45 years old. Some individuals older some younger but mostly between that agr range.
For any sad individual here who is still thinking of voting Tory, do read the following article which describes how the Tory Philippa Stroud set up a church that sought to “cure”
homosexuals by driving out their “demons”! Stroud, standing for Sutton and Cheam, is in charge of the “Centre for Social Justice”, the Tory “thinktank” which was set up by the Tory Iain Duncan Smith and which guides Tory thinking. Here is further evidence of the REALITY of the Tories. You have been warned.
Squidgy, you still haven’t answered my question. You claim:
‘[Nick Herbert] has, clearly, had to work hard to try and convince LGB people that the Conservatives have changed and are trying to work in the favour of the gay community.’
Again, I ask: what have the Tory party ever done that constitutes ‘working hard’ for LGBT people? And what do they plan to do? There’s no mention of us in their manifesto.
As for this line:
‘Some of you are going wet your wee panties when you hear that a large majority of gay people said they were very unhappy with Labour’
I think that says all we need to know about how the level at which you’re willing to debate. This isn’t the playground. We’re talking about the future of this country.
And nor will I because I have told you before I will not debate with you because you can’t do so without becoming abusive and acting like a bully boy, just because someone isn’t thinking your way.
Most people who know how to debate will know what I meant.
@Rob**N: ‘One has to try and appease the majority.’
WRONG. If we all thought like that, homosexuality would still be illegal.
- ‘Section 28 of the Local Government Act 1988 was introduced in direct and specific response to a situation in which gay liberation activists managed to get themselves elected to local authorities and in particular to the Inner London Education Authority. These activists then used their political position to force school libraries to carry literature directed at five and six year old children teaching them that it was perfectly normal to be raised in a family with homosexual parents. The best known of these books was “Jenny lives with Eric and Martin”.’
So what you’re saying here boils down to the fact that some people decided it was OK to teach kids that homosexuality was OK. What’s your objection? Do you think it’s wrong to teach kids that it’s OK to be gay?
And ‘Jenny Lives with Eric and Martin’ was written specifically for kids who lived with gay parents. If you’re condemning it, presumably you’d prefer the alternative approach: that schools teach the kids of gay parents that their families are unnatural? Do you think that would be better? Is that what you believe?
Jenny lives with Eric and Martin wasn’t part of the general syllabus in any school (although frankly I don’t see why it shouldn’t be). The Daily Mail used the book as ‘evidence’ of the Loony Left’s existence when anyone with any sense can see it’s a perfectly reasonable book for children to have access to.
- ‘Section 28 was a quintessentially liberal measure. It related to the proper relationship between the state and the citizen. The question asked was whether it was the proper function of the state to promote alternative lifestyles.’
Liberal?! This tells us all we need to know about your ideology… By ‘promote alternative lifestyles’, what you mean is ‘acknowledge minority lifestyles’, which is *absolutely* the duty of the state. ‘Minority’ does not mean ‘inferior’. If schools are going to say ANYTHING about sex and relationships, then they need to teach kids about all the possibilities.
@Squidgy: You claim I have ‘bullied’ you – please show me evidence.
The real reason you won’t answer my question:
‘What have the Tory party ever done that constitutes “working hard” for LGBT people? And what do they plan to do? There’s no mention of us in their manifesto’
is because you can’t, because they have done nothing for us, and you know it.
Could someone else put the same question to Squidgy and see if he’ll provide you with an answer?
So with some of the same attitudes like yours you don’t think the Tories are having to work hard to convince us they have changed, that they will support gay rights?
David Cameron has said a number of times no gay rights will go. He has stated on TV that he disagrees with the Churches stance on homosexuality.
With some on here who do just don’t want to believe that, thats fine your choice but thats what I meant by working hard to convince…
And so it starts again. How very predictable.
@Squidgy: Thanks for your answer. So what you’re saying is: the ‘hard work’ the Tories have done for us amounts to Cameron promising not to abolish any of Labour’s legislation protecting LGBT rights? I’m sorry, but I don’t think that’s enough!
I’m not saying I don’t believe you – I just wonder whether, should the Tories get in, Cameron will have time to rein in the numerous homophobic members of his party. Did you see the news story Eddy posted above?:
Doesn’t it make you wonder what it is about the Conservative party that makes it a magnet for homophobes?
The ‘hard work’ was aimed at the Tories convincing gay people during this election campaign.
I’ve made my choice. I’ve stated my reasons. Endlessly. They stick, so I believe this time round I am voting for the best party for what I want done over the next 4-5 years.
As a highly-qualified professional and practising teacher and lecturer in education of many years’ standing, I would like to assure all readers that the intended effect of Section 28, was that schools were rendered unfree to give any word or signal to pupils that homosexuality was acceptable. It is entirely incorrect and dangerous to say that “Schools were quite free to do as they wished”.
Squidgey if you’re happy to vote for people who hate you, fine, that’s your choice, now go stick your head in a rabit-hole and stop inflicting your idiocey here.
Nick Herbert? I would!
Squidgy, I’ve got to say this – if there’s any libelling going on here, it’s in your disgusting response (@33) to my post (@31) above, and the disgraceful way you’ve attempted to smear me. You can’t disprove a word of what I wrote so instead you attempt to smear and abuse me in the most extreme and offensive manner. That’s the action of a disgusting bully who realises the facts are against him, and that he doesn’t have a leg to stand on. So instead you make these unsupportable claims that “yet again” my post is based on “personal lies…. libelous lies”.
So here’s the challenge: go back to my post, and find one “personal lie” or “libelous lie” in what I wrote. Prove to us all that I’m wrong in saying that there have been many posts on here denying Labour’s track record on LGBT issues, that even in 2010, the Tories are running a pack of homophobes for office, and that for decades, the Tories have bitterly opposed any extension of LGBT rights. Or have the nuts to apologise for your disgusting remarks.
The problem for you is, anyone can read what I wrote, and it doesn’t match your description. You have often in the past used demeaning language to other LGBT people on this site, and here you are doing it again. You’ve said things like you hope people on here who oppose the Tories “get what’s coming to them”, you’ve used abusing and derogatory terms about other LGBT people, you’ve used language which demeans people, over and over again, and you’ve relied so many times on accusing everyone else of being a bully when the fact is, it comes from you.
I note that in your post, you ignored the facts about Tory candidate Philippa Stroud, that the last Tory government set out to demonise the LGBT community and make us a target for government sponsored bigotry and that all those senior Tory homophobes – like Hague, Duncan Smith, Grayling and Lewis – are still in senior posts and will be Cameron’s front bench if he wins the election. What’s really odd is that you even ignored my comment that “If you want to vote Tory because your ideals are purely economic, that’s really ok”. Because it simply doesn’t fit with the way you’d like to misrepresent me, does it ?
How does Nick Herbert sleep at night?
Does Nick Herbert support the sacking of crazed, lunatic bigot Philippa Stroud from the Tory Party because of her evil, efforts to ‘exorcise’ the ‘gay demons’ from teenagers?
If Nick Herbert does not state on the record that he supports Philippa Stroud’s sacking then effectively he is saying he supports the psychological abuse of vulnerable people.
I wonder what life as a ‘gay Uncle Tom’ is like for Nick Herbert?
Nick Herbert is meant to be the Tories’ nice, progressive face of happy-to-be-gay Conservatism. An openly gay man who’s feeling good about himself, openly Tory, and a sign that times have changed.
So if any of you wonder about how he must be feeling about Philippa Stroud and her homophobia, her “praying” over gay people to cast demons out of them, have a look at http://www.philippastroud.com/index.asp?p=11&galleryID=29
Yes, there on Philippa Stroud’s Tory Party website, 1st photo: Nick Herbert standing proudly next to her, brandishing the Tory manifesto.
If ever you needed any demonstration of why the Tories – even gay Tories – still cannot be trusted on the issue of gay rights, isn’t this all it takes ?
Can any Tory supporter on here explain why we shouldn’t all take a warning from this ?
I have to add, I don’t habitually use swear words but how this fvcking two-faced little sh1te Nick Herbert has the gall to suggest other parties have homophobic allies when he poses full of glee with this vile woman, I cannot guess.
DavidW, I really enjoy reading your posts.
With regard to Squidgy its pretty clear from all the stuff he’s written that he probably has mental health issues, despite his vehement denials. Anyone in the world can post on this site and therefore it’s only natural that we’ll have some nutter or two like Squidgey. He of course shrieks “Bully! Bully!” the moment he sees the many posts that there have been like this one.
Frankly, it’s plain to me that Squidgely is none other than Monkeych*ps.
He can change his appearance, but not his disruptive style.
Pinhead ain’t the word; his mind is as small as an amoeba’s asshole.
No, JP, I don’t think so. MonkeyChops was highly and genuinely literate and articulate. Squidgey is . . . well rather squidgey in his expression. (Of course, I wouldn’t have drawn attention to that if he had only been a pleasant and a rational person, which he hasn’t been.)
@55 hope aptrick dont mind my little bit of cut and paste.lol Hilarious read
Just chuffed you found it funny….no probs Jon….