Interesting that the Conservatives have to go on a ‘journey’ support equality and human rights. Cameron and the Tories really are beyond pathetic.
Good for you Dave!!
Definitely voting Tory next Thursday.
Chris Grayling and Julian Lewis have NOT been fired.
Cameron fired a candidate in a constituency where The Conservative Law and Justice Party do not have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning the seat.
When are the homophobic bigots Chris Grayling and Julian Lewis to be fired Cameron? Or is that too risky as they may win their seats, and therefore their grotesque homophobia is acceptable?
At least Cameron admits that the Tories are still the nasty, bigotted party.
Look at this little quote from the article:
“The Conservative Party has been on a journey. Has it been far enough and fast enough? Perhaps not.”
So even David Cameron admits that the Tories are lagging behind almost all UK parties (except for the BNP perhaps) when it comes to LGBT rights
Who knows, if the Tories do win by the time we have another election some of you might actually become more open-minded.
First of all I’ll point out that I’m a Tory (ex-labour voter). I honestly believe that those who run the Conservative party, its MPs and its Councillors are all for Gay rights and equality. The reason I felt the need to comment was the fact that so many of those polled in your survey intend to vote Lib Dem.
I find this very strange when you look at the Lib Dem party. The Lib Dems have 63 MPs – all of them are white and only 9 are women. Of all the seats the Lib Dems stand a chance of winning, only a couple of their candidates are Black or Asian. So on equality I think the Lib Dems talk a good fight, but their actions tell a different story. The Lib Dems are an all white vastly male party now, and they will be the same after this election. I’m not accusing the Lib Dems of racism – far from it – but I do think that they have failed to take the positive action needed – action that the Conservatives under Cameron have taken.
Cameron has made a real change to the Conservative party, and he is swift to stamp out any signs of racism and homophobia. Please don’t let a very old Tory stereotype put you off voting for a party that can make the genuine change our country needs.
It’s not even just the Tories as a party that have been slow (and don’t seem to yet have finished) in their ‘journey’ to support human rights. You all know about Cameron’s voting record against gay rights, but there’s a rather hideous letter he wrote in 2000 in The Telegraph attacking Shaun Woodward (Conservative MP sacked for his opposition support for the repeal of Section 28) for his pro-gay stance. He also attacked Tony Blair for his being pro-gay rights. Actual quote: “The Blair government continues to be obsessed with their fringe agenda, including deeply unpopular moves like repealing Section 28 and allowing the promotion of homosexuality in schools. . . Blair has moved heaven and earth to allow the promotion of homosexuality in schools”.
So Squidgy, you’ve decided to vote for a homophobic party. If you want to punish yourself that badly, there are clubs you can go for that sort of treatment – you don’t need to waste your vote…
SimonM: “Chris Grayling and Julian Lewis have NOT been fired.”
Chris Grayling and Julian Lewis do not need to be fired.
They have done nothing wrong. It is just you and your persecutionist attitude. Not everyone likes you. That is not a sackable offence.
If he sacks all his homophobic candidates and sitting MPs, he’ll have a smaller party than Veritas!
So if Cameron is elected, probably with a very small majority, how does he propose to offset the tax cuts and other cost cutting measures to rein in the national deficit? What programmes is he going to cut in order to pay for tax cuts for the rich and the corporate sector? Why haven’t Grayling and Lewis been sacked?
I got the impression from news reports yesterday that it was the Chariman of the Scottish Conservatives who suspended this guy and not Davie boy.
I’m impressed, if’s he has gone becuase of this then perhaps there is a change in the cons – they’d be a change as well – who wants another term of lab and fugly brown
I see we see the true face of what Gordon Brown really thinks of the electorate today!!
He may hold his head in his hands because he has been discovered. Time for them and him to go!!
Pathetic. Emotional Blackmail just doesn’t work on me I’m afraid.
“Who knows, if the Tories do win by the time we have another election some of you might actually become more open-minded.”
Ironic thing to say, given you’re completely single minded with regards to voting Tory and incapable of actually listening to anyone else’s point of view. I’m assuming you just keep pasting the same comment? Broken record comes to mind, Squidgy.
“As soon as I realised he was an entirely expendable no-name from a far-flung constituency where we have next to no votes and cannot possibly win, I decided to just sort it out and prove to the credulous just how changed the Conservatives are by making a very cheap public example of him.”
Gay rights have just been reduced to complete irrelevance in this election by the sound of the Bully shaming himself on national television. Watch for yourself the moment that Brown damned himself and the Labour party whilst committing electoral suicide:
Fortunately we only have 8 days left of this walking disaster left.
@ Squidgy: ‘Emotional Blackmail’. Er, what??
@ vulpus_rex: the woman was slagging off immigrants. I’m no fan of Brown’s but this time he was right: she is a bigot.
Call-Me-Dave says that Tory acquiescence to gay rights has “gone further than many other parties around the world.” Yeah, true, “Dave”, you are indeed a bit better than the gay-persecutors of Uganda, Iran, and suchlike. But let’s not compare you with them. Let’s compare you with The Greens, the LibDems, and Labour! Compared to them your attitudes to gays and lesbians, as revealed when you were videoed by Gay Times a few weeks ago, are Jurassic!
Here’s what Call-Me-Dave and his lot have done:
In 1999 William Hague sacked Conservative frontbencher Shaun Woodward for refusing to back the party’s stance that Section 28 should not be repealed. (Remember that the Tory’s Section 28 of 1989 effectively gagged any employee of a school from giving any impression to students that homosexuality was OK.)
In 2000 while David Cameron was campaigning for the seat of Witney he wrote a letter in The Telegraph attacking Shaun Woodward for his pro-gay stance. He also attacked Tony Blair too for his being pro-gay rights. These are Call-Me-Dave’s actual words from that time: “The Blair government continues to be obsessed with their fringe agenda, including deeply unpopular moves like repealing Section 28 and allowing the promotion of homosexuality in schools. . . Blair has moved heaven and earth to allow the promotion of homosexuality in schools”. Do you really believe that the leopard has completely changed his spots simply because he now needs our votes and is saying, “Trust me!”?
In 2003 David Cameron MP fought against and voted against the Labour Government’s repeal of Section 28 in the House of Commons.
By 2005 Say-Anything-Dave has done a complete turnabout and he tells the BBC he’s delighted Section 28 has been abolished! He told a BBC journalist: “At the end of the day, one section of our community did feel discriminated against by Section 28, and so I’m glad on that basis that it’s gone”
In 2008 Cameron voted against a law making it easier for lesbian couples to have IVF treatment. He says that this issue goes to the heart of his message that Britain’s society is broken. Are we now to believe, just two years later in 2010, that Cameron no longer believes that “Britain’s society is broken” and that we LGBTs are not to blame for it?
In 2009 Call-Me-Dave decides to appear at a gay pride event and say sorry to us for the ban on anything that might be construed as a positive view of homosexuality in schools. He said “Yes, we may have sometimes been slow and, yes, we may have made mistakes, including Section 28, but the change has happened”. It was an apology but there was little real remorse in it. Was it not just a clever preparation for wooing us for our votes in 2010?
Having delivered this “I’m weally weally sorry”, just two months later in 2009 Tory MEPs refused to go along with a cross-party European Parliament vote to condemn a homophobic law that had been passed in Lithuania!
Then earlier this year, in 2010, in his interview with Attitude, Call-Me-Dave criticised the Church of England over its attitudes to homosexuality and called upon the Church to accept equal rights for gays.
But a little later, in April 2010, Call-Me-Dave’s Shadow Home Secretary Christopher Grayling is revealed by The Observer newspaper as having said that he feels sympathy for those businesses who wish to turn gay, lesbian, or transgender people away – despite it being against the law to do so. Cameron fails to discipline his colleague and a few days later yet another Tory candidate, Andrew Bridgen, says much the same thing as Christopher Grayling said. Cameron similarly fails to discipline Bridgen. Both Grayling and Bridgen continue as Tory candidates in the election despite having shown support for the “right” of businesses to turn gays, lesbians, and trans people away.
On April 10th 2010, Call-Me-Dave sought to woo gay and lesbian voters in an article written for PinkNews. He said that if they were in Civil Partnerships they would be eligible for the £3 a week he was promising to married heterosexuals (provided they are on a low wage). He also promised the possibility of “a clean slate” to anyone who had a “gay-sex offence” on their records. The only other thing he offered in his article was the sentiment that he was “heart and soul” behind gay rights and that LGBTs should simply trust him! However, Call-Me-Dave’s record since he ditched his seven-year position as Director of Corporate Affairs at Carlton Communications (a major media company) to “find a seat” in politics does not inspire confidence.
On 13th April, the Tories published their manifesto. It was completely and alarmingly without specific plans to progress and preserve rights for LGBTs. Throughout this very long and very carefully prepared document there is not a single section of any length devoted to how the Tories will assist the LGBT minority.
On 14th April, Christopher Grayling, the man the Tories would have as their Home Secretary, sought to reverse the damage he had done to the Tories as a result of being secretly recorded as saying that he feels sympathy for those businesses who wish to turn same-sex couples away. He went on Channel 4 and said that “I don’t think that people who are gay should be turned away”.
On 27th April it was revealed that Tory candidate Philip Lardner wrote on his website “The promotion of homosexuality by public bodies . . . was correctly outlawed by Mrs Thatcher’s government. Toleration and understanding is one thing, but state-promotion of homosexuality is quite another.” In the run-up to the election these words and others were hastily removed by Lardner. He was criticised in 2008 for calling the racist former leader of Rhodesia Ian Smith his hero. Lardner was quickly suspended by the Conservatives and Call-Me-Dave tried to curry favour with the LGBT community by comparing the Tories with the world’s worst anti-gay political parties. He said that at least the Tories have “gone further than many other parties around the world.”
er, wasnt it the Scottish Conservative Party that suspended him?
Always a pleasure to see Gordon Brown showing the face of Labour….
Time these two-face creeps were ejected!!
I’m still deciding who I’m going to vote for but I find all the nasty spiteful venom directed at the Tories by some commentators here such a turn off they encourage me towards the Conservatives.
Cameron has acted decisively and sent a very strong message to all within that party and the country at large that the narrow-minded opinions of the Scottish candidate are wholly unacceptable, and as such he should be commended not bitched at.
The Labour Party are the True Nasty Two-Faced Party.
The deserve nothing but a place on the scrap heap along with a few of their nasty two-faced supporters!!
Roll on May 6th.
(Labour voters vote May 7th)
Cameron has acted decisively and sent a very strong message to all within that party and the country at large that the narrow-minded opinions of the Scottish candidate are wholly unacceptable, and as such he should be commended not bitched at.
Comment by Thomas — April 28, 2010 @ 14:54
but did Cameron ‘sack’ him, or was it the Scottish Conservatives that did?
if it was Cameron, what about Grayling & Lewis?
“Tories by some commentators here such a turn off they encourage me towards the Conservatives”
Surely you can figure out how you wish to exercise your democratic right to vote in an intelligent and logical way, rather than being swayed solely a few anonymous comments on a gay site?!?!?!?!
you seem to make the news up as you go along. Another Labour trait so not surprising. She didn’t slag anybody off. Seems the Labour Party will keep making excuses to please themselves.
It was nothing but a blatant attack on an innocent woman who just happened to question him.
Disgusting two-faced Hypocrites the lot of them!
Never mind mate.
So he’s sacked the mid bedfordshire candidate, Nadine Dorries? http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-politics/2010/04/conservative-christian
…oh, no he hasn’t. It was one of the OTHER homophobic candidates that has been found out that has been sacked. Nice to know Squidgy is supporting fundamental christian homophobia.
Eddy No. 20…”Tory acquiescence to gay rights has “gone further than many other parties around the world.” Yeah, true, “Dave”.
Hmmmmm, how does he justify saying that? He doesn’t even support full civil marriage equality for gays, nor does the Tory party, just like Labour. Eight countries allow it and Finland in 2011 will bring it to 9. I wonder why Pink News hasn’t printed any information on Finland’s decision to approve civil marriage equality next year? Its probably like StonewallUK, not supportive of it.
He hasn’t sacked Nadine for this??
Regarding the “bigoted woman”, I’ve just watched all the clips and she just ranted about all these people coming in from Eastern Europe without making any point. She sounds exactly like the people I hear everyday at the bus stop who complain about everything and put the blame on foreigners/gays/blacks/muslims etc.
I agree. My parents are like that as well, so I sometimes lose my patience with them. Fortunately for me, I don’t have a plugged mic on me… The bigotgate has been blown out of proportions by none other than the media. I mean, a coverage of the poor woman’s house? Christ! Though it’s been a right laugh reading tweets about it, I have to say. :D
You’re right about the tweets, Lucius. Check this one out.
Squidgey is juvenile.
Yes, I’ve been looking at all the reportage of the Bigoted Woman incident and it seems she IS/WAS your average anti-european narrow-minded this-island-is-mine little bigot. Gordon was right. I would have said the same thing. And so would most people here. I don’t know why he apologised. He doesn’t have to repeat that she’s a bigot, but he can simply repeat the bigoted things she came out with.
If she is a raving little England bigot then why has the great dithering bully, gone crawling back through her front door on all fours and issued a grovelling apology?
He says he misunderstood and that he now accpets she is not a bigot at all. So Laurence, Anthony , Lucius et al, who is correct, you or the prime minister?
What I find interesting is that this Homophobe was “fired” for being someone he choose to be. I wonder how he feels??? We can get fired for being Just who we are, with out a choice!!
I never claimed that she was a major bigot, merely that she seems to me to be an old woman who complains about everything and blames a convienant person or group. That is bigoted to an extent. Gordon Brown went back and apologised as he can’t be seen being nasty to an old woman who spent 30 years working with children, and handicapped children at that.
This old woman was ranting from one subject to another and Gordon Brown was actually saying something about benefits for people looking for work or something like that and she just burst in “And what about all these immigrants? They’re flocking in from Eastern Europe” or something along thoses lines. Watch the clip on the BBC News website and you’ll see for yourself. She may not be on the same scale as Nick Griffin, but there is an element of bigotry in her rant.
She didn’t even make any particular point about immigrants, she simply ranted about it.
Gordon shouldn’t have apologised. He should simply have stated that he finds blaming the ills of this land on foreigners deeply offensive and then ignored the issue. He’s trying too hard to please. But, my goodness, what a lot of pressure he’s under at the moment. 99% of the people posting here, including myself, would have keeled over weeks ago, months ago, years ago, doing what he’s doing. And to think he’s doing all this with only one working eye and that one even must be in poor shape judging by how type has to be enlarged up for him to read.
Truth is if Gordon Brown now attacks his own voters. If he can’t handle tough talking from His own supporters like this woman how the hell can he be expected to run the country. All she did was say concerns that Many traditional Labour supporters like herself have. If some of you thought she Was being bigotted them we truly have a problem. It explains why we are having difficulty getting full equality. Your clearly seeing things that ain’t there. However you do that alot on here so why am I surprised?!
I’m not sure who it is your supporting. You attack other gay people for having a difference of opinion. Now you attack the majority of your own supporters for there legitimate concerns. You may brand me this, that and the other for what having my own opinion but now you attack your own. I think you need your own party.
Let’s be honest here, Gordon Brown is finished and should do the country a favour and resign after May 6th regardless of the outcome. Having said that I Have a feeling his position within the party is over so what will be will be.
#42 – Squidgy “All she did was say concerns”
So please tell me what exactly her concerns were? She certainly didn’t express any particular concerns about immigrants, she just ranted about immigrants.
Go back and read/listen to it again.
Seriously if you can’t see the points she was making then it’s no wonder many traditional Labour supporters are turning to the BNP. Your not listening, you not understanding what points she makes. They we valid ones and unless people like you at least try to understand what she was saying I fear the fight for keeping gay equality isn’t far behind. You clearly have no interest in listening unless it’s something your interested in.
She Didn’t rant about immigration she made a valid point, it was hers and many others concerns too. Same with her point over education and other things. I take it you missed the point where she said she though in general he’d done a good job of education and that she Was going to vote Labour like she had always done.
It’s no wonder she and many others including myself are disgusted with Gordon Browns comment.
He Will loose a lot of votes over this, mark my words.
What WAS her point on immigrants? She said,
“And what about all these immigrants? They’re flocking here from Eastern Europe. Where are they all coming from?”
That may not be an EXACT quote, but it’s pretty much what she said and I can’t see what point she’s making about immigration. She said this while Gordon Brown was trying to explain something about jobseekers benefits, or something along those lines, so the only point I can make out is that she’s blaming immigrants for unemployment in Britain.
Oh! DEEP joy!! You couldn’t write this crap!
WHY HASN’T GORDON BROWN BEEN SACKED??!!
After the constant bleatings of SimonM , Patrick James et al. over some minor little asides where they may have said more than they should, a Labour minister, not a back-bencher, not even a cabinet member, but the Prime Minister goes on record calling a pensioner, (and life-long Labour supporter) a “bigot”. Why? Because she happened to mention the subject that must not be named, and is then cursed by Call-me-Gordy as something akin to pond-life.
It was only a matter of time before a lefty got caught out, but hell, even I didn’t expect the top dog caught with his pants round his ankles. Oh sweet providence!
Oh, did I hear you say he said it in the privacy of his own limo? A bit like Chris Grayling did, you mean? At least he owned up to what he said and didn’t come out with bullsh!t like “I didn’t hear her correctly.” Like fvck you did. You just chose to do the usual ‘elephant in the room avoidance tactic’.
The British people want to know what politicians are going to do about immigration! Politicians constantly skirt and avoid the subject, which is why people like the BNP will continue to gain strength. Sooner or later, they will have to answer the question, or the Nazis will gain so much support, they will blow you all out of the water, and it will not be their doing, IT WILL BE YOURS!
The public want answers. Either serve the people that vote(d) for you, or they will vote elsewhere with a party that replies.
People have opinions, sometimes ones that you may not like, but if you want to run a country, you need to listen to the people and not install selective hearing. The next time some lefty little wanker shoots their mouth off about how selfish the Tories are, I, and I am sure many others, will shoot an Exocet right up their jacksies and remind them of this not insignificant little incident. This situation just totally portrays the so called “socialists” for what they really are: Self-serving, blinkered, money-grabbing fvcking hypocrites!
Excuse me while I go off to gloat and have a right good cackle at all the sheep on here that thought they were above all that.
Oh deary, deary me.
That wasn’t all she said about it though was it?!
You doing what most do on here do. You’ve just picked up on what you wanted to hear without actually listening to all she said. That wasn’t all she said Anthony. You’ll see what you want to see. Sadly most people, myself included do see. I’m not going to tell you, its for you to see. Oh and yes and I think I know whats coming from ya next…
Anyways I’m actually saying I support what a Labour supporter has said. Sadly for you not seeing, it’s what a Lot of other Labour supporters see and why they won’t be voting Labour this time round.
I think the main problem with some gay people is that they just can’t and won’t be bothered to see what happens beyond ‘being’ gay. It’s a very limited life you lot must lead.
I feel sorry for you, I really do.
I love life, I love being gay but I love being involved in every aspect I possibly can in life regardless of what it is.
You should learn to embrace.
“Seriously if you can’t see the points she was making then it’s no wonder many traditional Labour supporters are turning to the BNP. Your not listening, you not understanding what points she makes. They we valid ones and unless people like you at least try to understand what she was saying I fear the fight for keeping gay equality isn’t far behind.”
Really? And again, I would ask what point was she trying to make exactly? That members of other EU countries are coming here and taking all of our jobs and are clearly to blame for all of our problems and ills? What utter rubbish.
That is the LAW. Members of EU countries have the legal right come come to the UK, to live and work here… Just as WE have to right to do the same…(as many have done!)
So, her deluded and ill-informed, Sun-reading point is???
That we should pull out of the EU? (as that would be the only way of stopping other EU citizens coming to the UK).. And which party is advocating that exactly? The Tories?
´Concerns´ or not, they are irrelevant and non-issues. How about being ´concerned´ with what the three main parties have actually done, and what they propose to do? …. and leave the bigot woman to rant to herself! :-)
You’ve still not managed to tell me exactly WHAT point she was making about immigrants, and it was clearly due to her rant about immigrants that Gordon Brown called her a bigoted woman. Not because of ANY of the other stuff she said, only because of the immigrant stuff she said. And I did notice she mentioned other stuff, like pension credit,but none of the other stuff she said was bigoted, only the bit about immigrants was bigoted. Are we to allow people to be bigots as long as they balance it out by talking about other stuff too?
I do look beyond being gay, but I certainly don’t hate myself for being gay.
BrazilBoysBlog: “That is the LAW. Members of EU countries have the legal right come come to the UK, to live and work here…”
And pray who determined that law? I sure as hell didn’t. This is no “amendment to traffic violation” legislation. This is a FUNDEMENTAL CHANGE TO BRITISH GOVERNMENT AND SOVEREIGNTY!
It was not asked for, and it was slid in without any member of the British public ever being consulted, (Even though the incumbent government LIED to us when they guaranteed a referendum if they were voted into power.) – So whilst you can sit on your beach in Rio wittering on about Europe, try fvcking living here! It’s all so fvcking easy taking pot-shots from afar.
It also looks as though the predicted calamity is going to happen. Some half-arsed two-bob country goes tits-up and manages to drag down the rest of us trying to save them. Why the HELL should my country, already up to it’s neck in debt, support herds of Eastern European economic migrants whilst having to bale out a piss-pot little tourist haven just to keep the books in check?
They lost their marbles years before Elgin got there.
NOT OUR PROBLEM!! LET’S GET THE FVCK OUT OF EUROPE. NOW!!
Thank you for your continued posts on PinkNews. Whenever I see your name in the Comments box, I know we can expect rational, balanced argument, instead of childish and/or regurgitated Tory spiel.
That gullible fools categorcally refuse to acknowledge the bare facts in front of them should be no reflection on you. The only danger these trolls present is to themselves and the party they claim to support. Any fair-minded individual (of whom there are many) would read through comments purporting to vote Conservative on PinkNews and conclude that Tory supporters are infantile, reactionary morons who relish in antagonising anyone who doesn’t support their views (ergo, discrimination against gays). If the Tories had as much political nous as they do swagger, they’d get as much distance between themselves and these people as humanly possible.
I’m tired of the bizarre sniping whenever yourself or others on the Left (politely) present indisputable facts about the political agenda and anti-gay inclinations of the Conservative Party. We’re routinely ignored by those quick to accuse the Loony Left of “playing the victim” or trying to “emotionally blackmail” them. Then – astonishingly – when we reiterate the facts and concede that not everyone has to vote the same way, we’re accused of being “nasty”, “spiteful” and not being “open-minded” enough!
Judging by many of the churlish comments on PinkNews since the election was announced, I’m almost convinced that those who gloat, desperately counting down the “certain” demise of Labour would be first in line to buy gift certificates for their boyfriend/girlfriend were the gas chamber introduced as a health resort.
Those claiming that gay Left Wing supporters are the real culprits of hate should be ashamed of themselves. We have been denied rights by successive Tory governments, murdered, imprisoned, cast out of our families, kicked out of our homes, tormented by our peers, driven to suicide, and made to feel worthless for decades – all the while Conservatives have turned a blind eye, defending their contempt for gays under the guise of supporting the Church or the preservation of “family values”. We have finally found our political voice and are using it to demand equal treatment, and LGBTories have the audacity to condemn us for defending ourselves against a heterosexist and hateful cultural meme? Now THAT’S “spiteful”.
I’m halfway convinced LGBTories see voting Conservative as an “aspirational” measure. In their narrow world view this somehow equates to being “posh”, whereas Labour voters are routinely likened to “filth” – one such commentator suggesting that vandals who attacked posters for a gay Tory candidate would most likely be “chavs” who “vote Labour”.
To those people, like it or not – you’re gay. You were most likely born that way, and voting Conservative won’t somehow elevate your status into the blessed majority. If anything, it will diminish it it the point of invisibility.
As for the subject in hand – yet another Tory candidate wanting to advance their position on a platform of homophobia. It would appear that many PinkNews bloggers agree with “most people” (Philip Lardner’s Tory viewpoint) that homosexuality is “somewhere between ‘unfortunate’ and simply ‘wrong’” by placing their vote in the Tory ballot box.
Those who spend their days hammering anyone who sincerely takes a progressive standpoint on gay rights clearly doesn’t accept their [sexual] behaviour as “normal”, either.
Is somebody paying Squitty to come on here, sound like yer average dimwitted Tory and write making appalling spellings mistakes to add to the overall plausibility of his Sun-inspired tirade against anyone who is attempting to promote conversation? (Apologies for my spelling mistake, don’t know how to correct yet)
Im glad that we have devolved government in the north of Ireland, because if i had to live under the Law and Justice racist homophobic Tory mob, I think I would emigrate to Cuba or North Korea somewhere.
However I really don’t think the people of Britain will be stupid enough to elect this crowd of morons, so I won’t book my ticket just yet.
Quite apart from the whole GLB issue, they are totally without any realistic manifesto.
Anyone who watched the moronic Willie Hague trying to explain his way through the most idiotic plans for American style elected police “sheriffs” last night would shudder with dread.
They have totally lost it and are trying so hard to come up with something, anything that will appeal to the High Tory right. I really do dread what will happen if they are elected.
They are the same corrupt, inept crowd of upper class twits that brought Britain to its knees in the 80s and 90s under mad Maggie and gray John with 17.5% interest rates and 6 million on the dole. Social housing stock sold off to give the top earners tax breaks while sending letters to old age pensioners telling them they will be taking a penny off their pensions. The letters cost 20 p each to send out and could have added 3or 4p to the pension instead. They sq1uandered the £billions from the North sea oil, They sold off the national gas system and on and on ad nauseum.
The country is on its knees now as it is, and if this crowd get elected it will be 10 times worse than Greece, because the UK wont have the Euro to call on for a bail out, so the IMF will be telling you all how much Spam you will be allowed per day.
The hardest days of WW2 will seem like a cakewalk in comparison. The winter of Discontent will become Five years of Social War.
Thousands died needlessly in Ireland because of their racist obstinence, and it would still be going on if they were still in power.
They could have put on a bus from the House of Commons to Wands worth there were so many of them going to jail.
Gordon Brown may not be the sharpest tack in the box , but in comparison to Callmedave the Salesman he is up there with Einstein.
Think on and think hard before you throw away the UK and end up with Albania Major.
I am encouraged by David Cameron’s quick response to this. However there are numerous Tory candidates who possibly harbour similar views.
Isn’t it interesting that the Murphy’s, James’ Eddy’s and Patrick’s of this world are all too ready to pile on in and slag off any trivial faux pas committed by a Tory, yet when the über-proletariat Cash Gordon manages to stick both feet in his mouth, the boards become eerily quiet. They are suspiciously conspicuous by their absence when the tables are turned.
I just wish they could do it more often, it’s nice to see a gob the size of a Labour cabinet member’s expense account suddenly shrink to the size of an amoeba’s anus.
Brown’s little incident is going to make the graph of Labour polls look like the North face of the Eiger. The true face of socialism finally reveals itself to all, and if they had any possible chance of staying in power before today, it just vapourised along with any remaining credibility.
They think it’s was all over. It is now.
(Yes PJ, I know. It’s another fvcking paraphrase.
And that was Kenneth Wolstenholme, not Harold Macmillan)
#52 – Squigly works for tory HQ, but voluntarily, they don’t pay the homos as they spread HIV, aren’t normal, and don’t deserve to be treated equally to heteros, especially christian heteros. Squigly cares more about the economy than his freedom as a gay man, that is if he is gay. And as if the tories would make a good job of the economy. They never did before, so why would they now?
A gay man voting for the tory party is a like an asian man voting for the BNP. If you are gay and vote tory you are deffo a bitch slave suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
Squigly, I suggest you get in touch with your S and M tendencies and go and get the sh1t fvcked out of you in the Hoist, its much more fun than voting tory and getting the sh1t kicked out of you by the government.
Mrs Duffy put the answer before the question in the same sentence. First she say “what about all these Eastern Europeans coming here? then say “where are they all coming from?” …. eh????…… Obviously the woman isn’t even listening to herself Whovere advised the Prime Minister to go crawling back to apologise to what is clearly a bigoted woman, should be sacked forthwith.
GB even pointed out to her during the conversation that as many Brits go to Europe as come here which is a proven fact.
She shut up instantly when he poined this out and turned to walk away when he commented on the color (red) she was wearing, and asked her how many grand children she had. The rabid media ignored these points when they thought they had a story and ran with it . Get the story right . The PM was factually correct.. the woman is cvlearly a bigot. I wonder where she stands re queers………..hmmmmmmm
#57 should read…”as many Brits go to Europe as Europeans come here”
The bottomline is quite simple though.
To vote for The Conservatives, is to vote for homophobia.
I rear-ended a car this morning.
So, there we were alongside the road and slowly the other driver got out of his car.
You know how sometimes you just get soooo stressed and little things just seem funny? Yeah, well I couldn’t believe it….
He was a DWARF!!!
He stormed over to my car, looked up at me, and shouted:
“I AM NOT HAPPY!!!”
So, I looked down at him and said:
“Well, then which one are you?”
And he said:
“I’M GRUMPY, aka ROB_EN.”
(Oh, he’s going to get me for that one! Ouch!!)
Anthony Bermon said:- “You’ve still not managed to tell me exactly WHAT point she was making about immigrants, and it was clearly due to her rant about immigrants that Gordon Brown called her a bigoted woman.”
Squidgy is incapable of answering question put to him, Anthony. When cornered, he will simply insult. Its a very puerile and we’ve all seen him doing this many time before to many others. You’ve cornered him, questioned his blind allegiance to the Tory party, now he’s flustered, so he’ll forego reason for an offensive remark, as you’ve seen. The next stage is a massive tantrum about his free speech and he’s not a ‘victim’.
He still won’t answer the question though. Apparently being a ‘victim’ under ‘free speech oppression’ means you don’t have to.
As far as I can make out, the only thing he’s a victim of stupidity and being unforgivably boring.
@60 I´m sorry but I just cannot understand how anyone could be so dwarfphobic in this day and age. Your blatant sizeist attitude against our vertically challenged brothers and sisters is a disgrace.
har har…I was expecting that…but not from you!
Actually I do answer questions and did give you my response to your question. You and others just continously Choose to ignore them so it gets pointless. However I leave them for the decent people here who do read. Granted the answer I left you wasn’t the one you wanted but I think instead of trying to make people look stupid you may like to learn to read first.
I think it is hypocritial to demand everyone understand us and the gay rights but most of you refuse to see anything unless it involves anything to do with the ‘gay’ word.
The point is the points raised by Gillian Duffy are concerns for a lot of voters, many of them Labour. Like you Labour are choosing to ignore them which i why some are turning towards the BNP. It also means a lot of people just won’t vote.
If you truly don’t see anything about this woman apart from ranting, then I truly can’t help you. I can’t make you see what most others do see. It wouldn’t have cause so much fuss it there wans’t a point it and GB wouldn’t have had to do damage control. You’ve clearly shut off unless it happens to do with anything gay. Thats not good enough, not for me anyway.
Maybe thats what sets me apart from you after all this them and us in the gay community that you’ve created. I’ve never limited myself to just gay things I embrace everything I can and because of that I do feel equal in many more things you choose to not be in.
Yes there’s a lot of work on Equality still left but sitting on your arse’s with your closed-minded whinging ain’t gonna get it.
Too many of you are just typical me, me, me shelfish bratish types who don’t want anything to do with the world unless it evolves round you.
Well guess what, you just ain’t that important.
Maybe if it’s a country being told what to do, may I suggest you move to China. It seems more suited for your needs.
If you truly Cannot see or refuse to see (the more dangerous one of the two) the problems and concerns immigration is having on the country without resorting it down to bigots and racism the we have a serious problem. The saddest thing is even immigrants that have settled here see it and speak about it. You just choose to be ignorant and in complete denial.
At the end of the day it is Ignorance and Denial that will pave the way for the BNP’s rise. It is already happening. They are the party people are turning to and they will grow. I hate to think what you lot will be writing on here then. If, of course this paper hasn’t been sensored. Your ingnorance Will be all gay rights undoing.
Of course you won’t see any of this will you…! Other people just ain’t that interesting to you are they. Never Mind, eh?
reading the lady’s comments she did come across as a bigot
Persecution is done by the homophobes
No see didn’t she just dared asked the questions, voiced the concerns of many. This from a Life-long Labour supporter. Least we know what he thinks of voters.
If GB can’t handle real questions and comments from the voters then he really shouldn’t be in NO.10!
To put plainly Gordon Brown isn’t fit for to be Prime Minister. It’s time to move over and let David Cameron take charge and see what he can do.
Squidgy – then the many are also bigots, I read what she asked and agree with Brown’s impression! GB handled the questions well and he messed up by voicing an opinion which was acceptable when it was Chris Grayling! David Cameron will do much worse and too many Tories are still homophobes
LBG people want to make sure that equality goes forwards and not backwards – that isn’t selfish! Look at the deaths and pain plus misery linked to homophobes
We shouldn’t forget that the Conservatives have a questionable record on women’s equality. All but three of Cameron’s MEPs voted against a gender equality motion in February. The other three MEPs abstained. The Tories don’t look like a modern and progressive party.
“Too many of you are just typical me, me, me shelfish bratish types who don’t want anything to do with the world unless it evolves round you. Well guess what, you just ain’t that important. Maybe if it’s a country being told what to do, may I suggest you move to China. It seems more suited for your needs…. Your ingnorance Will be all gay rights undoing. ”
WTF???? What an unbelievable over reaction that was.
Squidgy, get over yourself…. there are obviously smarter people then you here, so less of the high horse nonsense. You’re behaving like a child.
“he messed up by voicing an opinion which was acceptable when it was Chris Grayling!”
Sorry Chester but wasn’t the fuss with Chris Grayling because his secretly recorded comment WASN’T acceptable? Gordon Brown did exactly the same think so it’s either acceptable or it’s not. Not one rule for one and one for another.
There was Nothing in this woman comments that warranted being branded a bigot and even GB knew that in the end.
“Look at the deaths and pain plus misery linked to homophobes”
You mean like a Labour Party that returns gay Iraqis…
“Gordon Brown did exactly the same think so it’s either acceptable or it’s not. Not one rule for one and one for another.”
How odd. On the thread where this was being discussed, Squidgy maintained this was a “personal opinion” of Chris Grayling, and that it won’t affect policy and shouldn’t be an issue. He seemed eager to discount that blatant homophobia, yet he thinks its his place to demand equal treatment of such things here when its a Labour politician that gives a “personal opinion”. Hypocrisy, Squidgy?
And no, I’m not a Labour supported or a Tory supporter, before you start spitting your usual anti-Labour and gays are all selfish rant.
GB got caught muttering something off camera in the privacy of his vehice which then got spread all over the press. It certainly was an oversight not to have turned the mic off. However, sadly, what he expressed was probably typical of the frustration many people feel when they run into people who go on and on about “immigrants” as if “immigrants” are responsible for all the ills in this society, as fuelled by the tabloid and let’s face it, mainly Tory press. Immigrants are human beings who migrate due to financial need a lot of the time. Our country is still relatively rich because we went into other peoples’ countries and enslaved them and benefitted hugely from their natural resources. Many of the people referred to as “immigrants” are people whose countries we, not to put too fine a point on it, raped and pillaged some years ago. It does seem that some of the more hysterical writers on this site don’t like to make an historical analysis of what is happening ( and can’t see far enough back in the past to remember exactly who the Tories represent) but our riches came from our violent emigrations years ago when we did not have to answer to democratic governments in their countries about our rights to be there. What does anyone on here think about refugees, for example, who seem to be conveniently lumped in with “immigrants”? I think it is the blanket hatred expressed through the Tory tabloids towards anyone who isn’t Britishish (and for this read English) that fuels the kind of misunderstandings and miscomprehensions of our constantly forming society. We have always had immigration (the fury used to turn on people of African and African-Carribean, and Irish descent) and many would agree that it has been good for our evolving culture. Without immigants we would be stuck for nurses, doctors, carers, etc etc etc etc.
What about the people that emigrate? (The ones who don’t want to pay tax in this country but still weild an enormous amount of power over the rest of us (even in the House of Lords)spring to mind – Non-doms they are called) Or seek new lives elsewhere? Should we assume that we would not be welcome anywhere else in the world for the same reasons; ie that we are “immigrants” and therefore fifth class citizens?
Labour has had a problem in understanding issues that people encounter in their everyday lives, as would any group of elite people. To change that means changing a lot more than David Cameron implies by his tired mantra.
What people get up in arms about about immigration is that services are finite according to budgets. So there is only a certain amount of council housing (after Thatcher et al flogged a lot of it off last time they were in power) and there are waiting lists for the NHS and for schools in certain areas. However this isn’t going to get any better if a regime is elected that is going to sell off the rest of the family silver in the way that the Tories did last time.
Double standards spring to mind.
I stick by my Chris Grayling comments too. But do you think I’m going to keep quiet when our own (unelected) Prime Minister does the same while you load spewed you righteous clap-trap about someone not in government? Too fcukin right I am!
Taste – own – medicine
The difference is there is absolutely no way in hell you can brand someone a ‘bigoted woman’ then say oh it was a mistake. Utter rubbish.
It’s clearly what he thinks of voters. His biographer says that apparently Gordon Brown hates the English, the working-class English even more so. So how can he speak for people he has no clue about but no interest in.
mmm sound like some of you lot. Nothing surprising.
Time we has someone in who knows what he’s doing.
LOL… that should have read
“Too fcukin right I am”… Not!!
“Double standards spring to mind.”
Yes, that’s what I said. You. Double standards. Hello! Wake up!
“mmm sound like some of you lot. Nothing surprising.”
Oh, of we go again, on the gay bashing and the boo-hoo… you’re a fantastic piece of gay homophobia. And being a gay man yourself, that makes you… well, an idiot, I suppose.
Its people like you who are the reason we should not vote Tory, if you are any example to go by. You seem to have deep emotional issues, not to mention acute learning difficulties. Quite frankly, you’re a mess and an embarrassment.
many who want to discuss immigration are bigots like the lady was when I read what she said
You certainly give a me a laugh if nothing else… I’ve heard it all now.
“many who want to discuss immigration are bigots like the lady was when I read what she said”
Exactly. This is what she said:- “You can’t say anything about the immigrants because you’re saying that you’re… all these Eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?”
Yeah, those immigrants, taking our jobs, eating our women, stealing our food…. she’s not only a bigot, she’s silly old cow.
Have to say, got some friends here too, apparently you should be on stage with that kind of humour.
Cheers for the laugh
“You certainly give a me a laugh if nothing else… I’ve heard it all now.”
What, that you’re stupid? No! Seriously? You MUST have heard that before. I mean, is blatant! A doctor telling your mother, perhaps, as she cried becuase you were a crushing disappointment to her?
Run along now, Squiggles, you can draft your next homophobic hissy-fit at the Labour party for our delight and entertainment.
Oh, give it a rest Squidgy already, you’re so bloody tiresome!!!!!
Dean/Chester, I agree, the woman’s comments were intended to be racist, there’s no doubt. Its the usual “them nameless ones out there ruining my life” lark. Its just unfortunate for Brown he was ought, but he’s a politicuial, I’m sure he’s been in worse positions. I would have said worse to the old bag to be honest.
Scci-ffi’s on the back foot at 65, methinks. (Apologies for spelling, still don’t know how to correct) Someone been rattling his cage? For his information it seems that many of the people who are trying to have internet discussions on this website are not simply looking to meet their own needs as LGBT people, but are looking at politics in the wider sense.
I really don’t think you can constantly blame Labour for the rise in BNP, if indeed there is such a thing. You might blame a misinformed minority of an electorate who look to blaming everyone else in sight for their own beliefs. That is, if you are into blame in the first place. Also, people haven’t voted for years-can’t really just blame that on the Labour party either, but, what the hell, it is easier to apportion blame than try to examine causal effects “aint it”? I’d personally like to look at the way this “democracy” is set up to represent the people, for example, having non-elected law-makers (House of Lords)in positions of power simply because they have aristocratic birth rights. And further down, having schools and education that some extremely rich people can afford, from where ex-pupils pour into the Tory party as though it is there unassailable right to rule over the mob. This all takes time and thought and wouldn’t in any way be broached by a Tory party who benefit from our labour and lives in protecting their interests abroad (and, sadly, our ability to be misled by them) still. After all, why would they relinquish rights they have taken for granted over the years and which most of us still don’t seem to recognise they have?
Yeah, thats gonna be a no!!
I’m just as entitled to make my point and Will carry on doing so!
Ain’t going to apologise for you not able to handle it.
Amazing how all the haters of socialism use the NHS, a socialised, government run programme, including Tory party members. What about state run schools? Are they going to remove their childen from them and send them to public schools, even if some can’t afford it? Its the same rhetoric they use in America among the right wing nutters in their republican party…..”socialism this”, “socialism that”. Its nothing more than scare tactics, instilling fear where there isn’t any as a cheap shot to win over voters to support conservatives. Once Cameron is elected, he’s not going to do much better than Brown. If he plans on lowering taxes, usually for the upper echelons on the wealth ladder, how will those reductions be paid for? Answer: on the backs of working class people and those dreaded social progammes they hate so much. We’ll see nothing but cuts, cuts, cuts and to hell with the rest of us.
Squiffy…….You have got to be the most insufferable bore ever to have defiled these pages.
You are petulant.
You are a whiner.
You are very obviously a stranger to the “inglysh” language.
You dont read any quality newsprint and probably think that by that i mean the sun.
You think wikipedia is the be all and end all of factual information and you have been completely taken in by Callmedaves Law and Justice racist homophobic tories.
You really ought to get out into the real world (if you can find someone to escort you) and see how sane people live.
Posting utter drivel on a gay website doesn’t from a dark room in your parents basement isn’t the real world and only serves to have anyone unlucky enough to have read you drivel have a good laugh at you.
Come to think of it, thats about your only merit on here, to give up all a feeling of superiorty. You would make a sponge feel superior squiffy and you really ought to get some help.
“I’m just as entitled to make my point and Will carry on doing so!”
Then make a point. So far its been all drama.
It is clear that many people are still traumatised by the governments of both Margaret Thatcher and John Major. Anyone on this board can read what is a visceral hatred of the Conservative Party by particular contributors.
Unfortunately, this turns to the extreme with the branding of gay people who are on the centre-right as self hating, unrealistic comparisons with the BNP and the like.
The Conservative Party, as Labour and the Lib Dems, is a party of coalitions. There is a socially conservative part and a socially liberal part. The socially conservative part forms part of what Douglas Hurd terms the ‘Sour Right’.
The ‘Sour Right’ as a force in the party is lost. Most recognise that the equal rights legislation proposed by Labour (often forced after losing court cases in Europe or to implement EU directives) is right and proper.
The Conservative Party leadership has dropped this candidate. It has spoken positively about gay rights rather than negatively at nearly every opportunity. Where senior members of the party have questioned this, they have been criticised and have apologised rather than being supported.
This is, I would hope, to be encouraged rather than criticsed.
Silly Billy: “I’d personally like to look at the way this “democracy” is set up to represent the people, for example, having non-elected law-makers (House of Lords)in positions of power simply because they have aristocratic birth rights.”
Ah right, so you would prefer to replace people that see the job as a Lord as a public duty with those that have already corrupted the commons with their greed over expenses? Blair’s first move was to undemocratically remove hereditary peers and replace them with his own sycophantic cronies that had already proffered brown bags for the job, and once having gained a seat, charged people to ask questions and propose bills.
You may see hereditary peers as having been born with silver spoons in their mouths, but they have no axe to grind, and no agenda to fulfill. They do it out of a public duty, in much the same way as magistrates. Instead, they are swapped out for low-life hypocritical champagne socialists that will let any bill the Labour benches propose straight through the door without a second glance. Anybody that has to bribe their way into the same position is obviously not the right person for the job.
Do you seriously expect me to support the eviction of someone whose family has done that job honourably for possibly hundreds of years, when they get usurped buy pond-life like Mandelson, who had already been sacked twice for his misdeeds only to be promoted again to the cabinet and given a life peerage? If that isn’t totally and utterly fvcking bent, I really don’t know what is.
The Commons already stinks of corruption and bent deals, and Labour continue to spread the disease right across parliament. That bunch of sycophantic dog-turds don’t know the meaning of the word democracy.
Oh, an whoever it is on Pink News that continually tries to block my name or email, yeah, go ahead and try the IP. It won’t work. I’ve got more proxies than you’ve got disk space sweetheart.
Free speech has always come at a price.
Now that you mention it, I did notice that I couldn’t post a comment which contained your name. m-m.
Hello Big Brother??? The very idea!
Well without a doubt David Cameron won the debate last night.
Although I have always voted Lib Dem all my life, I’m proud to be voting Tory for the 1st time (in a General Election – Voted for Boris) on Thursday.
I reckon D. Cameron will keep to his word, we will Not loose any gay rights but we do need to sort this mess Labour has yet again left us in. Let’s face it whoever’s in we will have this ‘double dip’ personally I’d rather the Tories got us out of it and built up businesses again.
Thats My vote… Sorted!!
“Thats My vote… Sorted!!”
Yes, we know. This has been your sole raison d’être for the last month. Glad to have a Tory troll on the site, so refreshing, but any chance of a new record?
From the New Statesman:
“Gay voters go red or yellow – but never blue”: http://bit.ly/dkHmcn
No offense to anyone, but in my experience as a teacher, this “Squidgy” person has the mindset of a 13 year-old – albeit one with learning difficulties. There’s nothing wrong with that – except it’s obviously upsetting his interactions with other people. Unfortunately, a possible side-effect is bad behaviour – a tendancy to provoke that (as you can imagine) can bring out the worst in other people. In this case we should feel compassion, not frustration.
However… If this is actually a fully-functioning adult member of society, I would naturally conclude that he doesn’t get enough attention at home, and would prescribe a good old-fashioned fvck to ease his frustration.
I’ve been reading these comments boards for a while now, and for someone who apparently isn’t “defined by his sexuality” he certainly spends a lot of time on PinkNews (a pro-gay website – for his information) extolling the virtues of a political party that continues to discriminate against us (not to mention childishly slandering anyone with an opposing viewpoint).
If he finds gay rights so offensive, why not defect to the Daily Mail’s message boards instead? I’m sure they’d welcome him with open arms. As long as he doesn’t admit he’s gay, or course (if indeed he is gay. It’s actually hard to tell with all that pre-pubescent clap-trap).
I genuinely hope, for his sake, that Squidgy’s school gives him all the support he needs.
> for someone who apparently isn’t “defined by his sexuality” he certainly spends a lot of time on PinkNews (a pro-gay website – for his information) extolling the virtues of a political party that continues to discriminate against us…
> If he finds gay rights so offensive, why not defect to the Daily Mail’s message boards instead?
This is yet another example of a gay person defining the existence of being gay with holding political views on the centre-left and then seeking to undermine the person’s gay status by attacking their politics.
In other words, to be gay is to be left-wing. You are right wing. To be right wing is not to be left-wing. You are not left wing. Therefore, you are not properly gay.
Gay people have politics across the whole political spectrum. There is no thing as a ‘gay vote’. A person who is gay will decide their politics on the basis not only of sexuality but class, wealth, geography, gender, employment, education, family status, etc.
Being gay is not an ideal in the same way that in America, people can be called anti-American as if to be an American is an aspiration. Being gay is a fact.
To suggest that because a gay person supports a centre-right Party that publicly supports civil partnerships, has publicly affirmed the Equality Act, has 30 gay Parliamentary candidates, that has a lesbian deputy chairman, that suspended this homophobic councillor near instantly, that publicly stated that such homophobic views are unacceptable and wrong is to reveal nothing more than that your politics are left wing.
To ask a gay person to leave these boards because their politics are not left wing, to suggest that a person is not gay and/or welcome because they fail to fit within the rainbow coalition that somehow fails to cross halfway across the street to the right hand side is exclusive and divisive, and almost narcissistic.
Wow, Paolo what a load of crap. George too.
I genuinely feel very sorry for you. But either way so much attention just to me is a bit embarrassing.
Please try and learn to handle other people do have opposing views to your own. Paolo Where have I ever said I find gay rights offensive? I have never and will never.
You just prove that like most you clearly make it up as you go along.
It’s funny I’ve debated politics all my life and this is the first time I have ever come across such nasty vile people just because I don’t and won’t agree with them. Usually it respect from all to all. Never has it turned nasty. But them I guess those queens taking offense are just that… bitter ol queens.
Yesterday they interviewed a group of 1st time voters on Sky News and all varied some were going to vote Labour, some Lib Dem some Conservative. Not one of them got blasted for saying so. It was respected as their choice. What give you the right to be disrespectful just because someone doesn’t agree with you?
I guess respect and being mature about these things don’t come easy to you.
I firmly believe in treating others the way you want to be treated. Only when I have been insulted and attacked do I stand up for myself. I’m not going to sit and be trodden over. You act like bullies in a school yard if you want to but don’t get shirty with your hissy fits when someone stands up to you. You get what you deserve.
If you can’t handle a democracy then move, it’s simple as that. No-one deserves to be attacked like you lot do just because of they may have a difference of opinion.
George, Paolo etc – Grow up and get real. As long as I draw breathe I have the right to an opinion, just as much as you do. If you can’t handle it, it’s simple, don’t do it.
So I’m voting Tory this time, big deal, only it isn’t. What is a big deal is my choice because it’s exactly what it suggests. My choice. Unlike some on here I have Never told people they have to vote one way or another. I have only suggested what I am doing. Thats what debate is truly about.
You can continue with your singling me out in your posts if you want, you can bully, insult and whatever make you feel happy but so long as Freedom of Speech exsists you can expect me to be around for a long time to come.
I guess you making the effect to peronalise threads means my effect to debate is working of sorts (I’d rather it be with the grown ups) but to make them so personal just makes you stand out as just plain sad.
Best you can do… Get over it!
More histrionics form Squidgy. What a surprise. Who didn’t see that coming? Any chance of an intelligent response, rather than the tired and jaded attacks, Squidgy?
And do you know the meaning of the word hypocrite? Do you see the irony of your statement moaning about personal attacks as you lambaste anyone who disagrees with your dogma politics?
If the majority of people here think you’re an insufferable bore and an idiot, the chances are, there is some truth in that. Learn from it, and move on – but spare us the endless ingratiating steadfast Tory brown nosing.
> but spare us the endless ingratiating steadfast Tory brown nosing.
I had understood this was a comments forum for the exchange of views. I note also that the attacks on Squidgy are mostly ad hominem.
Nearly all the people on this board are dancing with dogma. That dogma is the equation of being gay with being on the left. If one is not on the left, then one is not gay, then one should leave this forum.
It is the view on those anointed to define homosexuality, which seeks to exclude those who fail to meet the imposed standards.
Paolo makes sense
Squidgy has cut’n'pasted his comments a few times now repeatedly
many don’t like the right as it’s the right who are the homophobes – or at least that is the public representation!
Yes George, I am very sorry I totally am in agreement with you.
Yes Chester, I am very sorry I totally am in agreement with you.
Yes Paolo, I am very sorry I totally am in agreement with you.
What I said was wrong and everything you say is of course right.
No question of it, I am gay therefore I must be told what to do, who to vote for. I will be voting for Labour because nothing else matters.
Squidgy – you need English lessons, I haven’t said what you claim and I was actually going to defend you yet you act like an immature kid! I’d rather you voted for the Liberals TBH! I was thinking of making the point that not all of the right are homophobes as some are only about money etc!
George said to Squidgy “the majority of people here think you’re an insufferable bore and an idiot”. You’re right on there, George. Whenever I see the name “Squidgy” I don’t read the post above it. I just skip it and read the next. The man has some kind of mental problem. I expect he’s as lonely as hell.
mmm what? think the clue is in the nickname. Since when has my nickname had an ‘e’ in it?
erm, clearly you say you don’t read mine coz you’d know that i’m a very happily Civil Partnered man. Interesting enough though you say you don’t read them but clearly enough to make you judgements.
Clearly some will do Anything to score Points. Clearly I’m treating on someone’s toes. Oh well, moving on…
“What I said was wrong and everything you say is of course right.
No question of it, I am gay therefore I must be told what to do, who to vote for. I will be voting for Labour because nothing else matters.”
Why the over reaction again? All people are saying to you is less of the blind homages to the Tory party and more discussion around their gay policies – which is all talk in my opinion given the number of homophobes that have come out of the woodwork in recent days. This is a democracy, how you vote is up to you, but you keep repeating it, over and over again, as if that’s to sway us somehow. It won’t, given you seem incapable of answering any question put to you. You seem more religious and wavering about your politics than most right wing Christians! That’s just not normal. Do you see that?
I am amazed at your constant over-reaction to just about everything, and how repetitive your posts are. Points scoring? Here? Are you serious? This is an Internet chat/comment room, not the House of Commons – there are no “points” to be made. Strange you resort to that kind of argument every time.
And you personal attacks seem to underpin a damaged self esteem.
You also seem to have a misconception to what free speech is:- Free speech is about a right to articulate your views, its is NOT the that you’re right in those views, or the right to go unchallenged. And odd you seem to demand the right to free speech, when you seem to want to deny it to others with stupid childish attacks more suited to a ADHD-tantrum throwing 4 year old, don’t you think?
A lot of people here think you’re behaving like an complete arse… I am one of them. Until you prove me wrong.
I was wondering if that was a troll as you don’t have an ‘e’ plus you come across as more rational – even if you are gonna change from being a liberal to the dumb tories!
I’m happy you are civil partnered so congratulations for that and I hope you both are very happy
Thank you for seeing… I know I can be a bit out-spoken and definitely maybe over passionate about what I say. I do try to mean well. Guess knowing when to back down here and not standing my ground wouldn’t go amiss as it obviously leads too the above actions :)
Also Thank you, Very happy for 16 years CP 3 years. Likewise to you happy etc too :)
de Viliers said:
“This is yet another example of a gay person defining the existence of being gay with holding political views on the centre-left…In other words, to be gay is to be left-wing. It is the view on those anointed to define homosexuality, which seeks to exclude those who fail to meet the imposed standards.”
The central ethos of the Right is to promote homophobia and intolerance. Therefore, the fringes of that organisation will always defer to that doctrine above all else. There can be no “change from within” when the core is rotten.
The Centre Left traditionally supports gay rights – that being equal treatment for homosexuals both under the law and society in general. The Right opposes and blocks progressive legislature.
Just look at the recent sabotage of measures that would guarantee universal & improved sex education in schools. The inclusion of homosexual relationships is not only necessary, but mandatory when homophobic bullying is endemic in schools and teen suicides are rising at an alarming rate. This can only reinforce doubts that the Conservatives haven’t changed – despite Cameron’s broken record (actually and figuratively). His abysmal history of voting against gay rights is on record for all to see. The argument that we’re voting for a Party above it’s leader is moot when it’s become highly evident that he’s the weak link in a chain of entrenched homophobia.
There are undoubtedly pockets of anti-gay sentiment on the Left, but compared to a party that tradionally condones homophobia, the wheat from the chaff is easy to spot.
Under the Tories we have been denied rights, murdered, imprisoned, harrassed, ignored, cast out of our families, kicked out of our homes, tormented by our peers, driven to suicide and made to feel worthless for decades.
In this context, to be gay (and have self-respect) IS to be Left Wing. The omission of gay rights from the Conservative manifesto is conspicuous by its absence. We are not yet at the stage where we can comfortably shrug off our committment to equality when it’s abundantly clear that the Conservatives never intended to afford us this “luxury” in the first place.
The only “imposed standard” on gay people is to have a healthy self-esteem. An impossibility when supporting an inherently fascist doctrine.
“Guess knowing when to back down here and not standing my ground wouldn’t go amiss as it obviously leads too the above actions”
Well, I am delighted to see you are man (or woman – I don;t want to be accused of gender bias) enough to say that. There’s hope for you yet.
I’m seeing someone but not CP – I won’t accept anything other then marriage personally! As for some of the LBG on the right, some may think they can change the party from the inside by showing what they are like as people
I’ve always been a life-long supporter of the Lib Dems. I’ve never doubted Labours commitment to gay causes, well til Harriet’s the not so Equality Minister, blimey I know I’d never been able to have my CP if it wasn’t for them. However I just disagree with everything other than that, that Labour are doing and have been for the last 3-4 years or so.
Mr. Cameron has already said no gay rights will go and to be honest I think there is such a large mess to clear up with the country that I think that his list of priotries aren’t going to included damaging gay rights. For the next 4-5 years they just aren’t going to be an issue. I know that might mean we don’t get news ones, I do accept that but I just feel this country as a whole cannot afford to be another Greece which it is so close to being. The whole problem with Greece is they’ve refused to get a grip on spending so have spiralled out of control. Someone needs to be tough and take the reins.
I have to add that we seem to be forgetting that their still will be Lib Dem and Labour MPs so I doubt any damage, If there was to be any will be able to be passed through. There isn’t going to be a party with a massive majority.
Although I’m not in favour of a hung parliament at the moment I could just get on board a Tory/Lib Dem one. Trouble with Hung parliaments is they create over inflated egos which gets tricky.
I personally just feel that, just for the next 4-5 years, I need to think of someone working for the country and digging us out of this mess. I also feel someone needs to be actively seen to tackle immigration because I just feel if Labour stay we will see more of the BNP and to be honest that scares me because once they get grip we could be fighting more to keep what we do have. At least if the Tories act on what they say it Might just convince some Ex Labour and now new BNP supporters to change back, even if its to Labour.
there was a previous equality minister who was also a christian plus homophobe
immigration is confused with asylum seekers by many (deliberately so by the right-wingers) and theBNP use it to cover that they are still racists, too much of what is said about immigration is about the colour of people and that’s all! in the 80′s the opposition couldn’t stop thatcher and her homophobia
I wouldn’t want the tories back in plus don’t want gay rights to be abandoned by the Government
For all those that choice to bully and discredit me:-
Mervyn King has just put my exact thoughts, points I was trying to make. Though I don’t think as drastic as 30 years, I still think the point is Very valid. So whoever is in next time is going to be Very unpopular not matter who it is. They may Very well be out for a Very long, long time.
So the point is whoever wins the next election will be Very unpopular and will probably be out of government for a considerable amount of time.
Who do you what out for a ‘considerable amount of time’?
The Tories? Or Labour?
Please think seriously about this before slagging me off again.
Do you want the prospect of nothing happening to gay rights, nothing more, nothing less, with quite possibly a Labour government afterwards?
Do you want the likely prospect of a Labour government, out of office again for a Very long time?
My Choice… Tory…
Then maybe Labour?
shut your eyes if you want too…. I will not!!
Think very carefully about it people!!
> In this context, to be gay (and have self-respect) IS to be Left Wing… The only “imposed standard” on gay people is to have a healthy self-esteem. An impossibility when supporting an inherently fascist doctrine.
This argument belongs in the same declaratory category of the Pope’s argument that to be gay is inherently disordered and a defective choice. It is falsifiable only by personal experience. The Pope says that to be gay is a defective choice. I know that I made no choice to be gay. I therefore find the Pope’s argument to be false. Paolo states that to be gay is to be left wing. I know that I am gay. I know my politics are not left wing. I therefore find Paolo’s assertions to be false.
It is worth noting that the most left-wing regimes have been no friends to its gay citizenry. Left wing Cuba rounded up and incarcerated thousands of gay Cubans for being disordered. Left wing China sent thousands of gay Chinese citizens to be ‘re-educated’ in prison and ‘medical centres’. Left wing Russia considered homosexuality to be disordered and criminal. All were left-wing, atheist countries.
When the French police came to round-up gay men during the Pétain collaboration, they did not stop to ask whether those they were taking were in the Parti Socialist or in the bourgeoisie. When the Cuban police came for Reinaldo Arenas, they did not stop to ask him if he supported the revolution, tortured in prison until he publicly renounced his deviancy.
So if the assertion of gay equals left wing is falsified by personal experience, with what are we left – no more than the unsupported assertion of the same. The difficulty is, if a gay person disagrees with this assertion, whose view takes precedence?
Paolo assumes the right to define homosexuality for every other gay person. If to be gay is to be left wing, then to be on the right is to be not gay. Paolo confers upon himself the right to define who I am and to exclude me from the body of gay people because I disagree with his politics.
This is a step into facism. Like the French gays who were excluded from the French population because they were deviant and “not French” to the German Jews who were excluded from the German population because they were “not German”. Paolo seeks to exclude those on the centre-right from the gay population for being not-gay. He sets himself up as the arbiter of homosexuality.
To be gay is not a philosophical ideal. It is a fact. The intolerance is to attempt to deny those who are gay a link to their gay heritage and culture. Like black people who are criticised by other black persons for being ‘too white’ or ‘not black’. Such declaration is fascistic and narcissistic. We should reject it whenever it is asserted,
de villiers – atheism isn’t communism, you deal in facts you claim yet you ignore this
I agree they are not synonymous. It was an observation.
Rob/N (91)”Do you seriously expect me to support the eviction of someone whose family has done that job honourably for possibly hundreds of years, when they get usurped buy pond-life like Mandelson, who had already been sacked twice for his misdeeds only to be promoted again to the cabinet and given a life peerage? If that isn’t totally and utterly fvcking bent, I really don’t know what is.” Try nazi appeasement, slave owning, paedophile supporting, robbing the poor. The list is endless. We don’t all inhabit a world in which excessively rich people are seen as kind and philanthropic or even having some opinion to offer us lesser mortals. You obviously have an axe to grind with electoral reform since oligarchies. Weird, but curious in this day and age…..do you hanker the good old days when serfs knew their lowly places?
De Villiers, when Paolo stated that to be gay is to be left-wing what he meant is that your right to live with full dignity and respect according to your natural condition of homosexuality does not accord with right-wing convictions in this regard.
Right-wing politics involves solidarity with the establishment which accords with the church which is incompatible with the natural conditions of LGBTs, try as some LGBTs do accommodate themselves within the established churches.
The homophobia of the right-wing has been clearly and remarkably well demonstrated in the past few days by the disclosure that Tory party candidate Philippa Stroud, head of the Tory Party’s highly influential “think-tank” on “Social Justice” believes that YOU and I and all LGBTs are possessed of demons and that these demons can be exorcised by prayer.
Dwell upon and consider deeply the meaning of the term “demons”. Do some research into the Christian understanding of the nature of “demons”.
If you wish to be accorded full respect for your natural condition of homosexuality, you will have to fight hard the right-wing in order to acquire it. You will thus become a left-winger. And you will also become a person of integrity and congruence.
You cannot walk with your enemy with true contentment.
The meaning of a “right-wing conviction” is too subjective to afford any consistent and agreed meaning. The convictions of ‘the right’ in France are different to that of the UK which are different to that of Germany.
One can see in Germany that the right includes the Free Democratic Party – a libertarian party led by Guido Gesterwelle, who is openly gay. It follows both social and economic liberalism. Ms Merkel and the CDU are also on the right in that they economically liberal but more socially conservative.
In England and in France, there is less of an open libertarian constituency. In the UK there is the IEA and the ASI. In France, there is not even that. Perhaps Liberté Chérie. In the UK, the mainstream right tends to be socially conservative but, unlike in France, more economically liberal. Nevertheless, the libertarian wing of the Conservative party and the right-libertarian wing of the Liberal Democrat party are similarly both socially and economically liberal. In reality, the Conservative Party is a party of coalitions including both social conservatives and libertarians.
Even in the UK, being on the right does not mean being part of the establishment. Thatcher dismantled many parts of the English establishment ancien régime. She was openly opposed by the establishment Church of England and her own party. Similar to the Economist newspaper, one can be on the right yet call for fundamental constitutional change involving an elected executive divorced from the legislature, a Bill of Rights, a European Constitution, a wholly elected Parliament and the abolition of titles. No-one on the right in France would call for the overthrow of the Revolution and the restoration of a monarchie.
As I said in another post, it is better that gay people are present in all political parties so as to ensure that whoever wins power, such voices can be heard. Nick Herbert’s position in the Conservative Party, with Alan Duncan and Margot James, a lesbian vice-chair of the Party, along with the other 20 candidates who are openly gay, ensure that the Conservative Party should remain responsive and sensitive to those who are gay. That the Labour party has protected religion at the same time as protecting gay rights show the two need not always operate to exclusion of each other.