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Lesbian couple are first to jointly sign birth certificate

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  1. This is a victory for laserbeams everywhere. Though I was surprised to see that Natalie Woods was one of the partners in question, I always thought she’d drowned a few years back?

  2. What happens when the kid wants to know who his dad is and they won’t tell him?
    Or if they die, how does the kid find his dad?

  3. A sperm donor is not a dad he is just DNA! Parenting is far more that a few genes being shared. Why would the child need a dad when studies show the children of lesbian parents have far better outcomes than any other parental group.

  4. Surely this is wrong. Isn’t the point of a birth certificate to register the parentage (the DNA if you will Abi) of a child, not the social arrangements or sexuality of one parent?

    It seems again that the wishes of adults trumps the rights of children (in this case to know who their biological parents are). What happens if you are in no way related to a child but appear on the certificate as a co-whatever, then separate form the other adult? Are you then bound in some way to the child?

    I think this is knee-jerk gesture poltics which has not been thought through properly and is going to lead to a lot of confusion in the future

  5. No Julian, knee-jerk gesture politics is pandering to religious bigots who have an unhealthy interest in children that sometimes becomes a sexual interest!

    Children dont need fathers or mothers. What they need is stable and loving parent/parents of any sex, sexuality, race, gender identity, disabled or able bodied.

    What Children dont need is to grow up surrounded by religious dogma!

  6. I was disgusted by James Whale on Sky News this morning. I switched channels and they were reviewing the papers. The Daily Torygraph had this as their lead and he was blatantly saying that their relationship was not equal and that a child needed heterosexual parents.

    Eamon Holmes looked distinctly uncomfortable at what James was saying..

  7. Mihangel apYrs 19 Apr 2010, 1:30pm

    there are many cases where a husband is registered as the father despite the child being conceived thru IVF, or a wife the mother despite egg donation. The birth certificate therefore has little to do with DNA and is very much a social construct. And in all cases, the registered father only believes that he is the DNA donor.

    Unless we introduce a DNA test for both parents before registration, it has the potential to be a piece of comforting fiction.

  8. garibaldi's 19 Apr 2010, 2:03pm

    Lucky kid, especially if she grows up gay, she’ll have the lezzer mates of both mums sniffing after her. Silver vixens aplenty.

  9. Jean-Paul Bentham 19 Apr 2010, 2:09pm

    Of course, I’m delighted for Natalie and Elizabeth, and I’m certain the child will be brought up in a loving environment.

    I’d be curious to know if Natalie and Elizabeth considered adoption though.

  10. Pumpkin Pie 19 Apr 2010, 2:40pm

    It’s crazy that it took this long for them to bring in this legislation, but at least it’s finally here.

    Oh, and for anyone whinging about only one parent being biologically related to the child, this is EXACTLY what straight couples who go through IVF have been doing for YEARS. Why don’t you go complain to them about it first? Same-sex couples deserve equal rights to mixed-sex couples.

  11. “Why would the child need a dad when studies show the children of lesbian parents have far better outcomes than any other parental group.”

    Because the kid has a right to know, especially for tracking genetic diseases this kid might get

    Whats wrong with listing both the biological parents and legal parents on the birth certificate?

  12. vulpus_rex 19 Apr 2010, 3:23pm

    I was discussing this with a friend and she wondered about the relative importance of such legislation as “Surely the incidence of Lesbian couples where one or both are infertile is incredibly rare?”

    Is it a question of fertility though?

  13. FeministSmithie 19 Apr 2010, 5:08pm

    Thank you Mihangel!

    The only name on the birth certificate that is necessarily genetically related to the child is that of the mother, except for in cases of surrogate mothers, in which case it is debatable who the “mother” might be.

    The alternative for such situations previously was to only list the mother’s name. There is no requirement for two names to be listed, so this legislation is allowing the addition of information.

  14. FeministSmithie 19 Apr 2010, 5:31pm

    As Melanie Nathan points out on lezgetreal, http://lezgetreal.com/?p=31647 , the US has had this legislation for a while.

  15. The Gender Recognition Act has a section that states that although a person’s legal sex is the new sex for all purposes the person remains the father (if they used to be a man) or mother (if they used to be a woman) of their children. I understood that was because other previsions were specific about “father” or “mother” and that the gender neutral “parent” would therefore not be effective.

    Glad to see Abi is still as dim, sexist and otherwise bigoted as she always was!

  16. FeministSmithie 19 Apr 2010, 8:05pm

    What about Abi’s comment is sexist? I read rather the opposite, that sex does not matter:
    “What they need is stable and loving parent/parents of any sex, sexuality, race, gender identity, disabled or able bodied.”

  17. @ Simon QQ

    You really are a pathetic little worm! You cant match me in debate, so you engage in slurs and insults against me!

    If you don’t have the intellect to engage in reasoned debate, then have the decency not to post!

  18. Pumpkin Pie 19 Apr 2010, 9:48pm

    Because the kid has a right to know, especially for tracking genetic diseases this kid might get

    Whats wrong with listing both the biological parents and legal parents on the birth certificate?

    That’s not what a birth certificate is for. Birth certificates are for legal matters (which is exactly why this legislation was needed), not medical. Medical records are for medical matters. If the donor was an anonymous sperm donor, I don’t think the child would be given his details – and that would remain true no matter how the birth certificate was written. Anonymous donors generally want to stay anonymous. And if it’s not someone anonymous, then surely they could record his name on, I don’t know, a piece of paper? Invite him for sunday lunch? You honestly don’t need a birth certificate for it. They’re not Post-It notes.

    Your beef is with donor anonymity (an understandable beef, I might add, even if I don’t necessarily agree), which has nothing to do with this. This legislation has done nothing but good.

  19. Hi Feministsmithie,
    I see you concede that Abi is dim and a bigot (you should see the anti-Catholic sectarianism she spews on other threads – by all means hate the Church but poor Abi hates Catholics as Catholics). The sexism charge is prompted by her repeated attacks on gay men – specifically here she writes “A sperm donor is not a dad he is just DNA!” which is clearly not true as many sperm donors are more than “just DNA” which is the demeaning and insulting assertion Abi made and reflects her problems with men, especially gay men.
    So she is dim and bigoted and I think I have just shown that she is also sexist. But I have to admit that the “you can’t match me in debate” did get me laughing – and the use of three exclamation marks in a mere three sentences!!!!

  20. Simon QQ has revealed his identity on this thread!

    Hello Dennis Skinner

  21. Feministsmithe,
    You’ll note that poor old Abi does not dispute the sexism or anti-Catholic charge. Quite why she hates Dennis Skinner I don’t know, except of course he is male so in Abi’s book he is suspect. I thought Skinner was pro lgbt rights and pro abortion and therefore someone a feminst like you would approve of even though Abi hates him?
    Anyway, what about the point that those drafting the Gender Recognition Act went out of their way to preserve the gendered relationship between a person who is granted a full Gender Rocognitino Certificate and their children (ie they remain “father” or “mother” despite their new sex) – as I wrote, I though this was done because it was important, in terms of various bits of UK legislation. If that is so then will recognising someone as “parent” rather than “mother” or “father” not cause problems? I’d have no problem with a child having two legal mothers (and no father) or two legal fathers (and no mother) but the HFEA uses gender-neutral language where the GRA deliberately preserves the gendered language.

  22. Anybody can go about making wild unfounded allegations Simon QQ see my statment above above.

    Your just the same Troll that has been racially abusing Sister Mary Clarance for months. Now I guess its my turn I guess, but you wont make me leave this site Troll.

  23. First in UK maybe but not worldwide. New Zealand has had both lesbian “mothers” recognised on birth certificates since 2005.

  24. Abi – children don’t need fathers or mothers – are you for real?

  25. the are NOT the first, 14th January 2010 Ashford, Kent it was done before them by months……..they just went looking for publicity.

  26. i think this legislation is great, being able to put the people who are going to bring the child up on the birth certificate, i was just wondering why the legislation stil doesnt cover lesbian couples who concieve at home like it covers hetrosexual couples that concieve at home, i dont see the difference as long as the other person concents to it

  27. I am inspired by this story, my partner and I are about to start going down the route of donors to conceive and knowing we can both be on the birth certificate is amazing news. DNA has nothing to do with it, we will be the baby’s parents, not the donor, and I think that’s what matters.

  28. scorpioduo 4 Nov 2010, 7:19am

    Total agreement with MG I myself am the registered parent of twin girls registered parent march 5 2010, just publicity seekers!

  29. http://AnonymousUs.org/indexN.php

    You are crazy if you think that kids don’t want to know BOTH their biological parents.

    Their mother AND their father.

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