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Harriet Harman: ‘It’s not a question of matching Tories for gay vote’

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  1. PinkNews your reporting what David Cameron said wrong again!

    Cameron said: “they would be considered as spent and not reportable”

    The conviction would still stand its not a pardon.

  2. Still ignoring the Lib Dems I see PN!

    Whatever happened to balanced reporting!

  3. This article is written with a very strong pro-Tory stance.

    Why is that seeing as Pink News claims to be non-partisan?

    The Tories are homophobic scum – as evidenced by their support for their BNP-style Shadow Home Secretary for his disgusting homophobic bigotry.

    Well at least CallMeDave did disastrously badly in the ITV debate last night.

    He looked like the red-faced, uncomfortable, sweaty, uncertain posh-boy that he is. I particularly enjoyed his lunatic ramblings about how Britain needs to keep nuclear weapons to offset the ‘threat’ from China.

    Nice one Dave – that’s a sure way to keep our massively important trade partner China happy.

  4. de Villiers 16 Apr 2010, 12:32pm

    Only the Queen can grant a pardon, although she does this on teh advice of the Home Secretary. She could, I suppose, grant a blanket pardon on her minister’s advice. She can do this without the need for Parliament to pass primary legislation.

    More importantly, a pardon does not overturn a conviction. It merely ends an ongoing punishment, such as a prison sentence. Such an act would require primary legislation.

  5. de Villiers 16 Apr 2010, 12:35pm

    > The Tories are homophobic scum – as evidenced by their support for their BNP-style Shadow Home Secretary for his disgusting homophobic bigotry.

    This is viciously disingenuous and wrong. If the suggestion is that there no difference between the BNP and Chris Grayling then this reduces the danger of the BNP and their policies.

  6. Grayling is a Roman Catholic his views are in line with the dogma of this cult! Maybe thats why Catholic used to be barred from high political office. Because they serve the Pope before any other!

  7. “This is viciously disingenuous and wrong. If the suggestion is that there no difference between the BNP and Chris Grayling then this reduces the danger of the BNP and their policies. ”

    Yes pretty much.

    Think about it. If the BNP were to suggest that white B&B owners be allowed to turn away black guests, there would be universal outrage at their fascist beliefs.

    If Chris Grayling had been recorded saying that white B&B owners be allowed to turn away black guests, then he would have been fired on the spot. No questions asked. Instant dismissal.

    If however you believe that homophobia is as damaging as racism, then why hasn’t Grayling been sacked.

    While Grayling and Philippa Stroud and Iain Duncan Smith and Andrew Brigden remain in the Tories then I see no real difference between the Tories and the BNP.

    The Tories are better on race issues than the BNP for sure. But there is little difference between the Tories and the BNP when it comes to gay issues.

    Their Shadow Home Secretary believes that owners of commercial businesses be allowed to illegally discrminate against their guests if they are gay.

    He is homophobic scum. And because the Tories have not fired him it means they endorse him.

    Ergo – the Tories are homophobic scum.

  8. Patrick James 16 Apr 2010, 1:42pm

    SimonM writes:

    Well at least CallMeDave did disastrously badly in the ITV debate last night.

    Yes, it was a complete disaster for him.

    This of course, is his “home territory”. Dave Cameron’s supposed great advantage is that he is good on TV. In fact he was terrible.

    SimonM continues:

    I particularly enjoyed his lunatic ramblings about how Britain needs to keep nuclear weapons to offset the ‘threat’ from China.

    That was an astonishing gaffe. It would be truly appalling for the UK to have a Prime Minister that ignorant of foreign affairs.

  9. Patrick James 16 Apr 2010, 1:43pm

    Abi1975 writes

    Grayling is a Roman Catholic his views are in line with the dogma of this cult! Maybe thats why Catholic used to be barred from high political office. Because they serve the Pope before any other!

    Whilst I am amongst the first in these forums to criticise Chris Grayling I feel this comment is quite sectarian in nature.

    That Catholics were barred from high political office in the UK is absolutely nothing to be proud of or celebrate.

    Chris Grayling and Ian Duncan Smith are very right wing individuals but they could be so if they were Anglican, Presbyterian or Atheists.

    I myself am a Humanist (atheist of course) but I know that there are many people with strong religious beliefs who are progressive on social issues.

  10. Peter Tatchell 16 Apr 2010, 1:43pm

    Compare the handful of LGBT policies being offered by the Tories, Labour and Liberal Democrats, with what the Green Party is offering – a total of 14 new LGBT policies which are in listed its General Election Manifesto on pages 29 to 31. Here they are:

    http://www.greenparty.org.uk/assets/files/resources/Manifesto_web_file.pdf

    • Amend the Equality Act to provide explicit protection against harassment of LGBTI people.

    • Require all police forces to have equality and diversity liaison officers whose remit is to tackle, and take preventive action on, crimes against LGBTI people, people from ethnic minorities (including refugees and asylum seekers) and disabled people.

    • Legally target incitement of hatred on the grounds of gender identity and amend the Equality Act to provide explicit protection against harassment of LGBTI people.

    • Open up civil marriages and civil partnerships, without discrimination, to both same-sex and opposite-sex couples.

    • End the blanket, lifetime ban on gay and bisexual blood donors.

    • Campaign for homophobic, transphobic and racist crimes, and crimes against disabled people, including people with learning difficulties, to be dealt with effectively and on a par with racist crimes.

    • Ensure legal parity for parents and those wishing to become parents regardless of sexual orientation, and equality of provision of maternity services; lobby for widely available, affordable state-funded creches.

    • Push for the rewriting of the Mental Health Act to remove trans people from the Psychiatric Disorder Register.

    • Campaign against any reduction in the AIDS/HIV budget and target health promotion work to prevent sexually transmitted infections.

    • Ensure safe haven and refugee status for LGBTI people fleeing persecution in line with other social groups according to the Geneva Convention.

    • Refuse visas and work permits to ‘murder music’ singers and others who incite homophobic and transphobic violence.

    • Oppose all opt-outs from equality and antidiscrimination laws by religious organisations and remove special treatment allowing faith schools to promote homophobia on the grounds of religion.

    • Provide comprehensive training for teachers and educational staff on all diversity and inclusion issues; schools to promote equal opportunities in their anti-bullying procedures; equality issues to be monitored in teaching recruitment.

    • Support the human rights struggles of LGBTI movements in oppressive states such as Jamaica, Iran, Uganda, Malawi, Iraq, Nigeria, Zimbabwe and Russia.

    The Greens don’t just talk gay rights, they support, advocate and pledge them, as they have done for decades.

  11. Euan - London 16 Apr 2010, 2:13pm

    Thanks Peter for this.

    It’s a shame we’ve been reduced to comment pages on pro Tory Pinknews…

    Can we ask Pinknews to drop it’s Tory Leader worship?

  12. So Harriet Harm-em “appeared unsure of one of her party’s commitments to gay rights” was…

    Surely proof that they just make it up as they go along…

    Still definitely Voting:-

    General Election:- Tory
    Local Election :- Lib Dems

  13. Abi1975:-

    At what time did the debate start debating or speaking on gay issues/rights?

    When PinkNews report on other things not related you then attack them for having stories not in LGBT interests. You and some of your ‘friends’ say you only want stories involving LGBT people/issues/rights so now you want that changed?

    Make up you mind already!!

  14. SimonM:-

    surely you of all people who bang on about ‘learning from history’ know that it is important that we keep ourselves on the up side of being defended?!

  15. Pink News quotes Harriet Harman as having said: “The question is, is David Cameron going to actually change his view and match us on our commitment? I don’t think it’s a question of us trying to match David Cameron in any way, shape or form.”

    Harriet Harman is spot on. And I would say that it is silly for any LGBT person to go to her, a member of that government that far far far more than any other in the entire history of the United Kingdom has carved out room for respect and dignity towards LGBTs, and to ask her if Labour will match some meagre hint of a promise uttered by a Tory!

    It’s like going to the Head Teacher and saying, “Look, that boy who got excluded last week for unacceptable behaviour wants to know if you, Miss, will match his promise to arrive at school one hour early. If you’re prepared to do that, then he’s prepared to come back to school!”

    Same sort of thing.

    And before the usual unimaginative unoriginal Tory-lovers come barking in again and saying “Oooooo, Labour only did because the EU made them!”, let me repeat what I have said on another thread.

    The UK is a member of the EU. Member states together formulate policy. Those policies are then distributed to the member countries. So any policies regarding Equality which came from Brussels were formulated by our own participation! They were not imposed upon the Labour government, as if the Labour government sought to resist them, nail and claw!

    Furthermore, there are countries within the EU who have formulated policy in Brussels but have almost completely FAILED to carry those policies out back at home! Greece is one such glaring example! The UK is not. Labour has implemented policies which the UK has been part of formulating in Brussels.

    Moreover, much that Labour has done for the good of LGBTs has been done entirely off their own bat!

    So, once again, to all those who think the Tories are OK and worth voting for, don’t let the Tories pull the wool over your eyes!

    Select just six ordinary typical Tory voters who are not particularly well-known to you, then visit each one, look them in the eye, and then ask the following question:

    1. “Do you think that a Christian person, a Catholic person, a Jewish person, a Muslim person, or a person of any faith, should have the right on the grounds of their religious beliefs to refuse to provide goods or services to gay, lesbian, bi, or transgender people?”

    When they have answered this question, double-check their attitude by asking this second question:

    2. “Do you think that a Christian person, a Catholic person, a Jewish person, a Muslim person, or a person of any faith, WHO IS RUNNING A HOTEL, MOTEL, OR GUESTHOUSE, should have the right on the grounds of their religious beliefs to refuse to give a double-bed to two persons of the same sex?”

    If they answer something like “Yes!” or “I think people should have the right to make up their own minds on this”, then ask them a third and final question:

    3. “If YOU were running A HOTEL, MOTEL, OR GUEST-HOUSE and I turned up with a friend of mine OF THE SAME SEX AS ME and we asked you to give us a room with a double-bed, would YOU give us the the double-bed with dignity or respect or would you give some kind of excuse and tell us to find somewhere else?

    Do not vote Tory if you have not performed the above test.

    (And if you do perform the above test, it’s certain you won’t be voting Tory, you will have pushed the wool away from your own eyes!)

  16. Your attitude to learning from history is terrible – no wonder you admit to being tory

  17. Abi: The question in point was that these people couldnt get particular jobs due to their previous criminal convictions. As that law has been rescinded, they should no longer have that record held against them. However, what they did was wrong, and they broke the law at that time. However you might squeal about human rights, the law is the law, even if you don’t believe in it. Otherwise we would have total anarchy on our hands.

    Wipe the record, but not the crime. They should not be pardoned.

  18. Chester:-

    So be it if thats what you think but my point was how can you say on one hand don’t vote Tory because of what they might or indeed might not do with gay rights, blah blah, learn from history blah blah…

    But on the other hand wars against Britain in the past somehow don’t matter going against our Basic Human Right to feel protected?

    I was hoping this arguement would come up because how can you say Gay Rights – Learn from history but then A Defence plan to feel protected Oh well that was in the past? So what Basic Human Rights don’t matter?

    So are Gay Rights now more important than everybodies basic right to not be attacked? Shouldn’t they not be on a par?

    Surely it’s all one way or the other?

  19. de Villiers 16 Apr 2010, 5:47pm

    > While Grayling and Philippa Stroud and Iain Duncan Smith and Andrew Brigden remain in the Tories then I see no real difference between the Tories and the BNP.

    This can only be a deliberate attempt to be provocative. If not, it reveals a hatred, bordering on the fanatical, of the Conservative party.

    Chris Grayling did not say that B&B owners should discriminate against gay persons. He also did not say that gay people should be refused from such establishments. There is a difference in saying that a person should have the legal right to do something without the performance of that act being morally right.

    To the extent that some on the right believe that the disposal of private property is a private activity, they consider that it should not be regulated by government. This is a legal position that the state should not intervene. It is not a moral position that individuals should discriminate.

    The Conservative Party now support and will not repeal civil partnerships, legal equality and regulation of private, commercial activity (including employment and the workplace), and gay adoption. A recent conversion, perhaps, but they now support it and would do nothing to reverse it. A lesbian woman is a vice-chairman of the party. There are twenty openly gay parliamentary candidates, of which it is expected that fifteen will be elected. Cameron has attended gay pride events and there is a formally recognised gay branch of the Party.

    The BNP, however, would prefer there to be no anti-discrimination laws or regulation of private commercial activity. They have actively proposed discrimination and called for the reintroduction of section 28, for civil partnerships to be repealed, for the re-criminalisation of gay sex, for openly gay physical contact to be punishable. Of homosexuality, Nick Griffin has recently said publicly in an interview with Iain Dale, “It’s odd and I’m afraid it is creepy.”

    There is much for which to criticise the Conservative Party, as with all others. But to say there is no difference between them and the BNP or to describe them as homophobic scum is wrong and extreme.

  20. villiers, since when has a home secretary that says a business should be able to discriminate against gay people not homophobic scum – and he did say that – stop trying to rewrite history – you must work for tory HQ like some other on here. wake up you muppet, the tories are homophobic scum. and after last night it appears anti chinese too. pro tory voters just need to accept and admit that the tories are homophobic. always have been and always will be. there’s nothing fanatical about not wanting a party who not only in the past have reduced us to criminals, but who continue to spout homophobc nonsense. you may be able to ignore that kind of homophobia, but the majority of gay men and women cannot.

  21. Actually it was opinion. I see a lot of difference between the conservatives and the BNP myself, and that is my opinion. The conservatives are better at lying, and better at getting money are two BIG differences. Policy and personalitywise, those who resemble the BNP most in the conservatives appear to me to be keeping a low profile. On the other hand I have lost count of the number of times Mr Cameron has written to me this week. Every day another leaflet comes through the door. Yes, its amazing what a seat in the lords for a non-resident can pay for!

  22. Patrick James 16 Apr 2010, 7:36pm

    Peter Tatchell writes:

    The Greens don’t just talk gay rights, they support, advocate and pledge them, as they have done for decades.

    I have no doubt that the Green party (UK) has first class LGBT policies.

    I live in one of the three constituencies that make up Brighton and Hove. In these constituencies the Green party is powerful, which is imho a very good thing, but if you vote Green in the general election in these constituencies then the consequence will be that you are assisting in Conservative party victory.

    I wish it were otherwise and I am delighted that proper electoral reform is on the agenda now at last.

    If the Conservative party forms the next government then the prospect of meaningful electoral reform will be lost for years.

    I will mention that I am very concerned about environmental issues, I ride a bicycle, I have no car etc etc.

    But I will vote Labour not Green for the reasons stated above.

  23. Patrick James 16 Apr 2010, 7:48pm

    Jay 6pac writes about the Conservative party:

    after last night it appears anti chinese too

    Yes, they want to plonk a nuke on them! :)

    That is just one of the amazing Cameron gaffes though.

    The story about being in a Police station in Hull where they were about to buy a £75K Lexus has been shown to be a total lie :)

    Funniest perhaps is the 40 year old black man he had met who had worked in the Navy for 30 years. So, he started work in the navy aged 10 :)

  24. PinkNews have had this story about a police investigation into possible corruption at the Glasgow LGBT centre since yesterday morning but they are not running it – why?

    Labour http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/police-quiz-purcell-ally-over-drugs-allegations-1.1020742

    Police quiz Purcell ally over drugs allegations
    Chris Watt
    15 Apr 2010
    Police have questioned one of Steven Purcell’s closest allies over claims of corruption and drug abuse at Glasgow City Council.
    Councillor Ruth Black, a personal friend of the disgraced former council leader, visited a police station to discuss allegations that she was unfairly given a £50,000 council contract because of her connection to Mr Purcell.
    Ms Black, 45, was also asked if she had a role in the supply of drugs in Mr Purcell’s circle after the former leader admitted to having taken cocaine in the past.
    In addition, she was asked about claims she herself had taken amphetamines. Ms Black denies any wrongdoing.
    SNP councillors last week accused Mr Purcell of cronyism over his decision to award a lucrative contract to run a gay and lesbian drop-in centre to Ms Black, ahead of a rival bid from the well-established organisation Glasgay.
    The Nationalists were acting on a tip-off which apparently included incriminating evidence about the council leader’s decision to give the contract to his Labour party colleague.
    Ms Black had run a previous incarnation of the drop-in centre, but quit in December 2007. The centre went bust at the end of last year with outstanding debts of more than £300,000.
    Ms Black was given the go-ahead to run the new centre, angering supporters of Glasgay, which has more than two decades’ experience of working in the city. Ms Black admitted that she went to London Road police station yesterday afternoon after officers contacted her on Tuesday.
    Drug allegations against Mr Purcell, she told The Herald, were “the whole raison d’être” of the meeting.
    “They asked if I was involved in taking them and passing them to other people as well,” Ms Black said. “Well, of course not.”
    She was also questioned over the allegations relating to her bid for the contract to run the drop-in centre, but dismissed the claims as “absolute rubbish”, adding: “I totally deny them.”
    The individuals who had tipped off the SNP, Ms Black claimed, were former staff members of the centre who held a grudge against her. She intends to take action against them, she said.
    “It did become clear to [the police] as I explained the background that it was two ex-employees who had a massive axe to grind,” said Ms Black.
    “That balanced things out, and it was clear it was a very malicious, nasty attempt to get revenge on me.” Ms Black described the on-the- record police interview as “possibly the most horrible experience I’ve ever had”.
    She added that she was “devastated” to be caught up in the situation.
    No charges have been brought, although Strathclyde Police indicated that they may need to speak to Ms Black again.
    A police spokeswoman last night confirmed that the interview had taken place voluntarily.
    Glasgow City Council said it would be “inappropriate” to comment.

  25. At the end of the day, David Cameron showed himself up, to be the posh idiot that he actually is, last night.

    And his spray-tan was vile and streaky.

  26. SimonM: “At the end of the day, David Cameron showed himself up, to be the posh idiot that he actually is, last night.And his spray-tan was vile and streaky.”

    Vapid comments like that just about sum you up Simon, if the only criticism you can make about Cameron is his middle class upbringing, and a bit of Kilroy makeup is all you can find to pick holes. What about the fvcking policies?

    The whole thing was stage managed from the outset, everyone coming up with their own ideas about how to manage the economy but nobody daring to mention the “elephant in the room” in the fact the UK is haemorrhaging £45m a day to that bunch of bureaucratic tossers in Brussels.

  27. very pot’n’kettle Rob as you nearly always make vapid remarks on here

  28. Patrick James at #23! Good for you for highlighting the easy glib lies that Call-Me-Dave is willing to trot out at the drop of a hat!

    “The story about being in a Police station in Hull where they were about to buy a £75K Lexus has been shown to be a total lie :)

    Funniest perhaps is the 40 year old black man he had met who had worked in the Navy for 30 years. So, he started work in the navy aged 10 :) “

  29. Patrick James 17 Apr 2010, 4:52pm

    Hi Eddy and all

    I think this is great fun.

  30. Chester: …and all you do is make fvcking irritating remarks about other people’s remarks instead of making a point of your own. Just what Labour needs: More yes-men and noddy-dogs on the parcel shelf.
    “Oh Yuss!”

  31. Patrick James: More funnies

  32. Try that again…
    Patrick James: More funnies

  33. One more. I’ll get this HTML lark if it kills me.
    Patrick James: More funnies

  34. Back to the conservatives, and don’t worry! The economy is safe in their hands…

    http://politicalscrapbook.net/2010/03/conservative-party-cash-gordon-campaign-was-designed-by-us-anti-healthcare-lobbyists/

    sooooo our new best-buddy David Cameron’s smear on Gordon Brown was not only designed by an anti-healthcare lobby group, but also a homophobic lobby group too, stating the military “should not be used as a tool to advance the goals of gay activist groups”.

    “But perhaps the biggest indictment of the campaign is the level of engagement achieved in relation to its cost. With a $15,000 pricetag, the act.ivi.st web platform makes Cash Gordon the most expensive few web pages in UK politics – and it gets worse. At the time of writing, links to cash-gordon.com have been tweeted 241 times. That’s a shocking £41 per tweet. Even widening the net to every single mention of #cashgordon by the general public brings this down to a bargain basement price of, erm, £15.50.”

    Attacking Labour’s union links: £15 per tweet.
    Recycling an anti-healthcare web platform: priceless!

    The economy, about as safe as our rights….

  35. The Shadow Home Secreatary was wrong about what he said and should apologise in my opinion but comparing him to the BNP is going way too far. It seems to be the case that the Shadow Home Secretary doesn’t think that discrimination in the grounds of sexual orientation is right but rather he doesn’t believe that the particular issue he was taslking about was about discrimination. He was wrong as the B&B owners are providing a service to any member of the public and, as someone else said, what would be said if the same thing happened to people of a different race.

  36. Mattb: SO WHAT!!? You have to employ someone for the job, and if the people know what they are doing, then cool. I am a businessman, I can’t afford to be picky about my clients. My clients use me because I am good at what I do. But just because I do X doesn’t mean that I will do the same for Y, or the two are in any way interconnected. Yes, I might use similar techniques and business models etc, because that is what they pay me for, and if it ain’t broke, why fix it? Try applying a little logic to the equation instead of throwing in spurious connections that don’t exist.

  37. Rob-N! You a businessman! LOL! Pull the other one! You’re just a two-bit photographer what takes pics of brainless young desperates, aren’t ya?

  38. Patrick, thanks for #29! What a scream! Brilliant revelation of Call-Me-Dave’s simple tactics. He’s so schoolboy, isn’t he!

  39. PaulA: I have been self-employed and/or a company director since I was 17, and I have done far more than a “bit of photography”.

  40. How can anyone ever accuse Pink News of being biased TOWARDS the Tories? It never ceases an opportunity to bash the Conservatives for being some sort of gay bashing evil cult. Tories like the BNP? Why is it then that the BNP is successful in traditional Labour areas? And wasn’t old Molsley an ex Labour Minister?

    The Conservatives honestly cannot say anything right according to some people, spewing out insults and bile – and accuse others of hatred! If David Cameron said he liked a cup of tea in the morning someone on this post would find fault somewhere.

  41. It cannot be denied that the Labour Party in government has consistently progressed LGBT rights. Here is a list for the rapid cynics and Tories on here. Here is what Labour have done FOR YOU:

    • achieved an equal age of consent;
    • ended the ban on LGBT people serving in our armed forces;
    • ended discrimination against same sex partners for immigration purposes;
    • given LGBT individuals and couples the right to adopt children;
    • scrapped the homophobic Section 28 (Clause 2a in Scotland);
    • become a signatory of the Treaty of Amsterdam, which gave the EU powers to end discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation;
    • banned discrimination in the workplace and in vocational training with the introduction of the Employment Equality (Sexual Orientation) Regulations;
    • created the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) which gives LGBT people statutory body protection;
    • included homophobia in the definition of hate crimes;
    • increased sentencing for homophobic hate crimes;
    • removed outdated offences such as gross indecency and buggery;
    • produced and implemented the Gender Recognition Act, allowing Trans people to have their true gender recognised in law;
    • created the Civil Partnerships, allowing LGB people to have their loving relationships recognised by law and have the same benefits as married couples;
    • outlawed discrimination in good and services (with no exceptions);
    • launched a campaign in the UN for the Decriminalisation of Homosexuality focusing on the nine countries where it is still punishable by death;
    • awarded statutory rights for fertility treatment for Lesbians on the NHS.

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