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Former Archbishop of Canterbury calls for religious panel of judges for discrimination cases

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  1. Once again, religious people demanding special treatment.

  2. so 5 judges on the panel? ok then so there should also have gay judges in equal numbers to christian judges, lets be fair Sir

  3. Isn’t there an issue with these threats of civil unrest. I think this deluded nut has a charge of incitement to hatred to answer if the statments referred to in the article are correct.
    And to think that this as**ole sits in the highest forum in the land The House of Lords.

  4. Mihangel apYrs 15 Apr 2010, 6:07pm

    they had 1500 years making xian laws

    they have about 28 seats in the HoL, plus those held by clerics given peerages, plus all the Xianists in the HoC

    they’ve had overwhelming power to make the rules all that time, now the balance is levelling for everyone else they don’t like it

  5. davevauxhall 15 Apr 2010, 6:12pm

    It seems to me that in the guise of ‘warning’ Carey is close to threatenting or inciting civil disobedience by ‘christians’ who may feel that their desire to discriminate is curtailed. I notice he does not call for the judges to be similarly versed on sexuality issues and the discrimination that gay men and Lesbians face, which suggests to me a plea for special favouritism. It just seems ludicrous to me that if resolotions about discrimination don’t go his way he stomps his feet and accuses the judges of bias. It seems to me that he is suggesting that legal precedent and the presentations of arguments in court should have less weight than any ‘religious’ knowledge his pre selected judges bring to a decision. Where is the fairness in that, where is the legal professionalism? It sounds like a recipe for bias and I strongly suspect that is just what he wants. You cannot always just go to another B&B or counsellor. There is usually a long waiting list and if many of the counsellors refuse to serve LGB people then the waiting times are longer and we are harmed. Expression of Religious beliefs are not given carte blanche in our society they are restricted for the good of all. You cannot stone to death your relatives or engage in honour killings, you can not take slaves, or murder thousands of people etc etc, no matter how strong your religious beliefs and justifications, it is illegal.

  6. john sexton 15 Apr 2010, 6:12pm

    Judges should NOT pander to religious morons, but enforce the Law of the land.

  7. not gonna happen Carey old girl……..

  8. Should not the headline read:

    Lord Carey calls for Christian sharia courts

  9. Seems they want it all. This and also to stop those churches who willing want to hold Civil Partnerships from doing so. Sadly they will never believe in Equality and definitely do not deserve this special treatment. To live in a fairer Britain for the 21st Century out-dated cronies like this either need to learn to accept Equality or simply disband.

  10. Christine Rourke 15 Apr 2010, 6:46pm

    I see.

    So such cases should be heard by judges that will always decide in favour of whichever religion brings the case..

    And to ensure that, any judge that the religious organisations deem to have been “prejudiced” against them (ie, come to a judgement they did not like) can be banned from hearing such cases in future….

    Oh right… Well, that’s OK then…

    It’s a bit like a burglar demanding that his case not be heard by a judge who thinks burglary is wrong….

    BTW, brace yourselves just in case this decision goes in favour of McFarlane.

    Lord Justice Laws, who is hearing the plea to remove any judge deemed to be “unfriendly” to religion from hearing such cases, has form for going against any law he feels has been brought in by an over-zealous government.

    He might well be contrary over this one, and agree with Carey and the other bigots.


  11. I heard one of Carey’s minions on Radio 4’s Today programme this morning speaking of “homosexual rights versus Christian rights”. And the tone of her argument was “How DARE homosexuals get to do things that ancient Christian scripture forbids!”.

    The sooner that all these religionists and cultists get it into their heads that their ancient bits of parchment hold absolutely NO SWAY whatsoever in the modern rational world the better!

  12. Johan Roberts. 15 Apr 2010, 7:24pm

    As a hopeless thieving heroin addict, I demand that my Judges are made up of a panel of Junkies, thus sympathetic to my dilemma.

    Just where is this idiot coming from, and where does he think this type of thinking will take us.

    What a twat.

  13. Well if his ideas ever came to be, religion would always be picked over homosexuality by these councils.
    Judges are meant to be totally unbiased when they are doing their thing, so the idea of purposely making the judges religious people would be completely corrupt.

    Not only that, but surly something like sexuality that is predetermined should ALWAYS come before a religion that is totally and 100% a personal decision!

  14. excellent comments so far
    why shouldn’t minorities be equal to people? why is the judge so stupid as to think that Christianity must over-rule everyone else? Discrimination should be and must be fought but yet again the discriminators want it their way and whine when they don’t get their way! he only wants the religious to be homophobic! getting judges with sympathies would only mean they have an obvious bias to one side more then the other, because of their role judges need to be neutral and obey the law not Christianity or any other religion

  15. also – he’s scare-mongering like the loonies normally do to get their way

  16. These people are unbelievable.

    They deal with this as though the LGBT community were given preferential treatment over religious communities when the truth is no one has a preferential treatment. Christian can’t refuse LGBT a service that they offer everyone else in the same way that LGBT couldn’t (not that they ever tried to) refuse Christians a service they offer everyone else.

    Instead they twist it as though Christians are being discriminated against when they are simply being told they can’t discriminate on other people.

    Now they want a religious court to decide cases involving religion and homosexuality. Yes, that sounds really fair.

  17. What a plonker.

    “The fact that senior clerics of the Church of England and other faiths feel compelled to intervene directly in judicial decisions and cases is illuminative of a future civil unrest.”

    Inciting resistance to lawful authority sounds like sedition to me.

    Carey should stick to dressing up.

  18. This is mad, should we able to pick our family to judge our crimes? it’s mad to pick religious people, I was going to say someone of the LGBT community should but in all fairness that is wrong, there should be someone who is unbaised.

    This said I am annoyed at the things that have happened to the religious, why are the religious given the chance to discriminate LGBT people from jobs and other things but they arent allowed to wear crosses to work or offer to pray for people, what happened to freedom of speech that doesn’t stop freedom of speech.

  19. The sooner we have a fully-elected House of Lords, the sooner we’ll be spared having to listen to such self-interest groups and individuals. Nobody elected Carey … such people should NOT be part of the legislative system!

  20. All the weirdos in the world are lining up to try doing us down folks and whats going on on another thread.? We are over there ripping fcuk out of each other over the definition of a hissy fit in relation to a pair of gay swans.
    Just about says it all don’t it. No wonder we get bad press.
    Even the formerly sensible guys are getting their knickers in a knot over it. It was only meant to be a lite moment about some cute swans…I despair…i really do.

  21. Pumpkin Pie 16 Apr 2010, 2:39am

    Should not the headline read:

    Lord Carey calls for Christian sharia courts

    OH SHI- That’s exactly what this is! How did I not spot that? Man, what a bunch of nutjobs.

  22. Jean-Paul Bentham 16 Apr 2010, 3:34am

    Yea, right.

    Creative Bigotry 101.

  23. Sharia law for Christians… except that Muslim Sharia law is applied only to Muslims whereas this version is to allow Christians to discriminate against others. Ironically, Carey attacked his successor fiercely when the latter said there is a place for Sharia law in British society.

  24. The problem is the religion, not the law. Perhaps, like the BNP were forced to remove discrimination against skin colour from their articles or be outlawed; the same should apply to religions in relation to homophobic discrimination.

  25. BEWARE this man is a snake in the grass…

    “The fact that senior clerics of the Church of England and other faiths feel compelled to intervene directly in judicial decisions”

    He wants to intervene directly, where he and his mates have no place.
    Does this mean that he thinks religion is above the law of the land or is it just him and his mates?
    Gone are thoes days thankfully
    The civil unrest that he mentions is an outdated view of the country we live in today.
    It is shameful the money that is going to be spent fighting this view point
    Feed the hungry not the big fat biggots

  26. After watching the leaders debate last night. You can be clear that the views of people in the UK are moving towards a fairer society. A society fresh with ideas that will not accept the views and demands of grumpy old bigots like Mr Carey.

  27. “All animals, except man, know that the principal business of life is to enjoy it.”

    – Samuel Butler –

  28. #25 And if Callmedaves homophobic xtian bigots get into power thats exactly what we will get. The tories are so enthralled by this crowd of deluded myth lovers that they will give them anything they want. Remember mad maggie and section 28…. brought in at the behest of this bigoted nutjob. Imagine the homophobic bigotry being dreamed up by the current bearded lady in a frock.

  29. Looks like it’s the Christianists who want special priviledges. I think that a fair bit of this is that Christians realise they are losing their grip on people’s minds, along with a legal ability to discriminate. Yes, I imagine that they’re running scared.

    If any of this “civl unrest” happens, I suggest this person and his confreres be arrested for inciting to riot.

  30. I met Carey under somewhat bizarre circumstances once – it was a memorial service for my ex lover and friend who died on Sept 11. He was Archbishop at the time. He approached me in a crowded room and our conversation was very comfortable including acknowledgment of the gay component to that.
    The pickle that the Church has got themselves into here from a legal standpoint is quite simple: a court is going to consider that a person’s faith is a choice, one’s sexuality is not. An intrinsic human characteristic is always going to trump a lifestyle choice.
    The bigger issue for many Christians is the questioning that many of them have over why their Church selectively goes after gays and lesbians when the Bible is equal in its criticism of adultery and other social issues, but for which the Church turns a blind eye. The failure of the Church to show leadership on the issue of equality for all and it’s failure to move with society’s shift in morality and our understanding of human relationships is compromising it’s tenure and credibility. Carey should pick his battles more carefully.

  31. The silly old buffoon has as much grasp of history as he has of the law. ‘Centuries’ of religious freedom in the UK??? Catholics and non-conformists couldn’t vote, sit in Parliament or practice professions until the 19th century and non-Anglicans had to pay Church rates until the beginning of the 20th. A privileged Anglican view of the ‘UK’, methinks.

  32. Surely the point is that most mainstream religions, esp the RC church is out of touch with the rest of us, str8 or Gay! Thats why few people attend church these days and choose to spend sunday in the supermarkets! IF the church thinks its being picked on then they should remember who started this. LGBT people did not attack the Church until it persecuted them! The Rantings of Ratzi and his ilk have made even strong catholics look twice at the institution. Likewise, Old Arch Druid Williams can’t make up his mind on arthur or martha and sits on the fence! I personallyhave no wish to see christians persecuted as long as they don’t verbally attack my lifestyle and practice what Christianity is supposed to be; an all encompassing religion of love thy neighbour!

  33. Oh and BTW its about time the Christian Churches stopped using an ancient Jewish Fantasy book ie the Old testament, as an excuse to selectivly undulge their homophobia. IF they really beleieved in all it said, half the people in this country would be stoned to death for adultyr, fornication etc and so forth not to mention the dietry transgressions! The New testament contains none of these SHALT NOT or be stoned stories.

  34. The problem with Carey’s arguments and those similar to them, is as follows. Suppose I hate blacks or Jews or women or whatever – should I be allowed to refuse to serve them in a public service position or any other job for that matter? If we say yes to those who hate gays, (for pseudo religious reasons – Jesus appears from the Gospels to have been very broadminded, and this present case is probably more cultural than genuinely religious) then it must be allowed for those who hate other other groups of people. This is the real door opener to social chaos. Religion is about the love of God, not the hate of fellow human beings. If this man cannot abide by the basic rules of the law, then he should move to another country whose laws he feels he can follow. Uganda might be a good first step.

  35. Typical – they go to the courts and when they don’t get what they want then it’s because they are poor discrimiated against christians who aren’t understood. Clearly the system is at fault, not their weak arguments and their insistance that they should be above the law.

    So Carey instead proposes a tribunal of religous people who will blindly agree with whichever religious nutter appears before them. Judges and the judicial system is supposed to be unbiased and fair to all, clearly some christians don’t like the idea of fairness.

  36. Yes, the sooner the House of Lords is FLUSHED of old bigoted Tory religionists like ex-Archbish Carey, the better.

    Flush, flush, flush the lot of the establishmnet toadies down, down, down the pan!

    Glad to see Brown and Clegg making such a point of this in the big first TV debate last night. Labour has already done a great deal to transform the house of Lords but there is still a great deal more to do. The Tories would revert to the “glorious way” it all USED TO BE 100 years ago, if they got their way.

    People like Carey who have lived their entire lives utterly convinced that there is some great almighty pixie-in-the-sky have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to wield power in the machinery of the state.

    They are deluded and they are sick.

  37. These religious courts to prosecute the homosexuals and transgendered will they also have the power to rape us, institutionalise us, hang us, shoot us, burn us at the stake or just drown us as witches?

  38. Enough of making a special case of religion! Religious people have had it all their own way for thousands of years and look at the appalling number of wars, persecutions and massacres they have caused!

    Not to mention the obscenity of child abuse, forced marriages, immolations, genital mutilations… the list goes on.

    Let’s face it: religion is nothing more than leftover superstition, no more dignified than Ju Ju, Vodoo or any other primitive set of superstitions.

    It is an indictment of our society that still today religious communities are exonerated from obeying the law, not just vis-a-vis homosexuality, but also in animal cruelty. The EU, in fact, has written a get-out clause into Directive designed to minimise the suffering of animals in experiements, with the exception of those used for ‘religious rites’.

    That means that, as far as the EU legislators are concerned, it’s OK for an animal to be stabbed in the throat and left to die slowly, falling to its knees in a pool of its own blood….

    Does that mean that LGBT people can be discriminated against in the same way that animals can?

    Because effectively THAT is EXACTLY what religions are demanding: the right to treat LGBT people like animals, denying us rights, dignity or recourse to the law!

    Revolting! Absolutely, nauseatingly repulsive bigots!

  39. Mihangel apYrs 16 Apr 2010, 4:53pm

    the Torygraph is beginning to stir this pot, standing up for poor persecuted Xians who want to have nothing to do with us, and a few letters have so far been published that are beginning to foam at the mouth.

    Cameron really has to repudiate the “exceptionality” that religions, especially Xianity, expects.

  40. If anything, this calls for the diseastablishment of the state cult and the equally unelected, undemocratic, anachronistic House of Lords. Why should the cult and unelected people have a say in who gets what under the law. Time to abolish the parasites, disempower them altogether and demand a refund of our taxes that go to supporting their religious habits, a chosen lifestyle at odds with modern 21st century living. They have NO right dictating civil policy, everybody should be teated equally under the law without exception including religious cults. Enough I say.

  41. He just doesn’t get it. No-one is infringing on Christian civil liberties. People simply want them to stop discriminating and stamping all over gay peoples’ civil liberties. Being Christian is a lifestyle choice, being gay isn’t.

  42. He always was a homophobe.

  43. On “” I sent:

    Dear Lord Carey of Clifton,

    Following your call for special rights for christian lawbreakers (, can I please confirm that you do not want christain sharia law (which would in any case only govern christains) but instead you want to enforce christian discrimination onto christians and non-christians alike, in defiance of over-late equality?

    After 1500 years of catholic and then protestant oppression in this country, do you not feel it is time you removed yourself from the house of lords, and that you have no right to impose your evil discrimination onto the wider British public?

    Yours sincerely,

  44. marjangles 16 Apr 2010, 8:57pm

    According to his bio on Wikipedia he’s quite relaxed about divorce and yet fairly anti-gay rights. Funnily enough, Jesus, the guy who supposedly created Chrisitianity said not a word on homosexuality but did specifically condemn divorce – strange what these people choose to care about given whose teachings they are supposed to be following.

  45. Civil unrest? Aye, right. They can get bums on pews never mind street protests.

    What an absolute nincompoop; even the Queen is said to have raised her eyebrows at this twit.

  46. Civil unrest? Aye, right. They can’t get bums on pews never mind street protests.

    What an absolute nincompoop; even the Queen is said to have raised her eyebrows at this twit.

  47. If I was hauled up before the beek, and called him a pompous oaf, I’d probably get seven days for contempt of court. Yet this buffoon can make written statements describing the most senior judges as biassed – that means incompetent, incapable of doing their job. He backs up his submissions with threats of promoting civil unrest if his wishes to have the judges dismissed are not met. And nothing happens.

    The Lord Chief Justice should call him to appear in the Lords before his peers and his ermine should be stripped from him and his cocked hat stamped on.

    he should

  48. PinkNews have had this story about a police investigation into possible corruption at the Glasgow LGBT centre since yesterday morning but they are not running it – why?


    Police quiz Purcell ally over drugs allegations
    Chris Watt
    15 Apr 2010
    Police have questioned one of Steven Purcell’s closest allies over claims of corruption and drug abuse at Glasgow City Council.
    Councillor Ruth Black, a personal friend of the disgraced former council leader, visited a police station to discuss allegations that she was unfairly given a £50,000 council contract because of her connection to Mr Purcell.
    Ms Black, 45, was also asked if she had a role in the supply of drugs in Mr Purcell’s circle after the former leader admitted to having taken cocaine in the past.
    In addition, she was asked about claims she herself had taken amphetamines. Ms Black denies any wrongdoing.
    SNP councillors last week accused Mr Purcell of cronyism over his decision to award a lucrative contract to run a gay and lesbian drop-in centre to Ms Black, ahead of a rival bid from the well-established organisation Glasgay.
    The Nationalists were acting on a tip-off which apparently included incriminating evidence about the council leader’s decision to give the contract to his Labour party colleague.
    Ms Black had run a previous incarnation of the drop-in centre, but quit in December 2007. The centre went bust at the end of last year with outstanding debts of more than £300,000.
    Ms Black was given the go-ahead to run the new centre, angering supporters of Glasgay, which has more than two decades’ experience of working in the city. Ms Black admitted that she went to London Road police station yesterday afternoon after officers contacted her on Tuesday.
    Drug allegations against Mr Purcell, she told The Herald, were “the whole raison d’être” of the meeting.
    “They asked if I was involved in taking them and passing them to other people as well,” Ms Black said. “Well, of course not.”
    She was also questioned over the allegations relating to her bid for the contract to run the drop-in centre, but dismissed the claims as “absolute rubbish”, adding: “I totally deny them.”
    The individuals who had tipped off the SNP, Ms Black claimed, were former staff members of the centre who held a grudge against her. She intends to take action against them, she said.
    “It did become clear to [the police] as I explained the background that it was two ex-employees who had a massive axe to grind,” said Ms Black.
    “That balanced things out, and it was clear it was a very malicious, nasty attempt to get revenge on me.” Ms Black described the on-the- record police interview as “possibly the most horrible experience I’ve ever had”.
    She added that she was “devastated” to be caught up in the situation.
    No charges have been brought, although Strathclyde Police indicated that they may need to speak to Ms Black again.
    A police spokeswoman last night confirmed that the interview had taken place voluntarily.
    Glasgow City Council said it would be “inappropriate” to comment.

  49. Its about time that the rights of christians to discriminate against minority groups, be they gay or otherwise, be totally revoked.

    Christianity has about 250 different sects. And some of these have quite simply been the curse of civilization in the name of God.

    By brainwashed people, filled with hatred, who know not what they do.

  50. Perhaps you should write to them SimonQQ and ask ?

    Weren’t we talking about the sky pilot that thinks and feels he is the law of the land ?

  51. The Master of the Rolls won’t see this fairy queen in his way.

  52. The world’s religions and cults are as transparently invented as they were described “The Sisyphus Fragment”, cited by Sextus Empiricus as an expression of the atheistic views of the Critias (Plato’suncle). The fragment is now generally thought to have beenwritten by Euripides; but some have attributed it to Critias since he was also a playwright. Here it is. There is great wisdom in it!

    “There was a time when the life of human beings was disordered and beastly, and life was ruled by force, when there was no reward for the virtuous nor any punishment for the wicked. And then I think that humans decided to establish laws to punish [wrongdoers] so that justice might rule and be master over crime and violence (hybris). And they punished anyone who did wrong. Then, since the laws held public deeds in check and prevented men from open acts of violence, but they acted secretly, then it was, I believe, that a shrewd and clever-minded man invented for mortals a fear of the gods, so that there might be a deterrent for the wicked, even if they act or say or think anything in secret. Hence from this source the divine was introduced [with the claim] that there is a deity who enjoys imperishable life, hearing and seeing with his mind, his thought and attention on all things, his nature so divine that he will hear whatever is said among mortals and be able to see whatever is done. If ever you plot some evil deed in silence, even this will not escape the gods. For they have knowledge. It was such stories that he told when he introduced this most delightful teaching and hid the truth with a false tale. He said the gods dwell there and placed them where they might make the greatest impression upon human beings, there where he knew that fears come to mortals and benefits also [to relieve] the miseries of life, from the vault on high, where they beheld the shafts of lightning and fearfulblows of thunder and star-filled gleam of heaven, the beautiful design of Time the clever builder, parade-ground for the brilliant mass of the sun and source of rainfall moistening the earth below. Such were the fears with which he surrounded humans and by which this clever man established the deity in the proper place, with a handsome story, and extinguished lawlessness by means of laws. It was thus, I think, that someone first persuaded mortals to believe that there is a race of gods.”

  53. Pete & Michael 19 Apr 2010, 2:54pm

    If Carey gets his way, it will be back to people being burnt at the stake, foolish man! Try finding a solicitor to take up a gay discrimination case outside of London, they are not tolerant of Gay people either.

  54. Well said, Pete & Michael. There are quite a number of people posting here who never step foot out of the metropolis, where every street has its gays and lesbians, and they simply have no idea that there the old-fashioned Tory England is still going strong out in the shires.

  55. Lord Carey warned of “civil unrest”

    Let the fundemantalist Christians revolt . . . they always were revolting.

  56. Ten days since my letter, and no response from the threatening hatred inciter as yet. The fool obviously realises how contradictory his brand of hypocrisy is.

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