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Conservative manifesto lacks gay convictions promise

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  1. if he’s so about equality then why not marriage for any same-sex couple who wants to marry instead of CP’s?

  2. So, not only is he expecting gay people to support him based on empty rhetoric, but he’s unwilling to even maintain that rhetoric!

  3. The Conservative manifesto contains a pledge for a “free vote in government time on a government Bill” to repeal the Hunting Act. This shows us their priorities: killing foxes more important than gay rights and tackling homophobia. #sameoldtories!

  4. Dave North 13 Apr 2010, 1:56pm

    Doesn’t matter if it is written in stone.

    MP’s of all flavours renege on Manifesto “promises”.

    Liars, cheats and thiefs, one and all.

  5. Tim Hopkins 13 Apr 2010, 1:57pm

    The Tory manifesto includes one more mention of LGB people, but it’s not a manifesto pledge. On page 60 there is a nice picture of a shopping street in Brighton, with some text about how wonderful Brighton is, including:

    “Brighton and Hove also has the highest proportion of same-sex households of any city in the UK, and the annual Pride festival attracts more than 120,000 visitors to the city each year.”

    Of concern to those of us who believe that a considerable amount of the advance in LGBT equality in the UK in the past decade has been pushed forward by European law, the manifesto also includes pledges relating to that:

    Page 79:

    “To protect our freedoms from state encroachment and encourage greater social responsibility, we will replace the Human Rights Act with a UK Bill of Rights.”

    Page 114:

    “A Conservative government will negotiate for three specific guarantees – on the Charter of Fundamental Rights, on criminal justice, and on social and employment legislation – with our European partners to return powers that we believe should reside with the UK, not the EU.”

  6. The headline should read ‘conservative manifesto lacks any conviction or promise’
    They might as well propose the abolition of the monachy – the republicans must be the only group they haven’t tried to con yet.

  7. Chester, exactly right! Just like Brown, if Cameron were that committed to FULL equality he wouldn’t have said he’d “consider” civil marriage equality for gays but would have unequivocally stated that he would support it by amending the marriage law to include us, but he didn’t and he won’t. He believes that StonewallUK speaks for all of us, that the majority of us don’t want to marry. StonewallUK doesn’t speak for all of us whatosever. There is absolutely NO rational basis to barr us from marrying, none.

  8. Bring on that Election!!

    Lets kick some Labour butt out of government!!

    :)

  9. So Grayling was at this event.

    He is a vile, homophobic scumbag and absolutely unsuitable as Home Secretary.

    The fact that such a hypocritical bigot is still in the Tory front benches should serve as a warning about the emptiness of CallMeDave’s ‘promises’.

  10. I suspect the reason the manifesto lacks gay convictions promise is that the book was printed and bound awhile ago. With the convictions promise being a recent addition due to the Chris Grayling gaffe.

  11. But Grayling is still on the Shadow front bench.

    The Tories clearly think it’s acceptable to have as their Home Secretary a man who believes that the owners of commercial businesses be entitled to break the law in the provision of goods and services to gay people.

    If Grayling had said that business owners be allowed to discriminate against black people he would have been instantly fired.

    If the BNP had said it – they would have been condemned as fascists.

    Chris Grayling engaged in BNP-style behaviour and faces no consequences.

    Until he is fired then the Tories are saying that they accept his extreme-right neo-fascist beliefs.

    How could anyone vote for a party whose Home Secretary believes that religious people are above the law?

  12. Yes, ripping foxes and deer to pieces for pleasure matters more to them than basic human rights. Evil bastards. Saw some out on horseback recently, the purple faced wankers had just chased a fox over a cliff and were celebrating. It managed to crawl as far as the sea before it died. I’d like to see the same thing happen to a significant number of Tories.

  13. “I’d like to see the same thing happen to a significant number of Tories. ”

    Well I don’t want to see the Tories face such a violent end.

    However the following extremists in the Tory Party make them impossible to vote for:

    1. Iain Duncan Smith – catholic extremist who would be in charge of families – believes that the rights of non-biological gay parents be reduced

    2. Philippa Stroud – see above. This vile bigot is also an evangelical christian

    3. Chris Grayling – shadow Home Secretary who believes that religious people be above the law

    4. Andrew Brigden – see above

  14. This article by Ken Livingstone (former Mayor of London) is a useful expose of what the Tories are really up to: check out http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23823613-london-will-lose-jobs-if-the-tories-get-back-in-power.do

  15. Why are we surprised? Same old Tories with a shiny new leader.

    If social equality for LGBT Rights were something in which the Tories truly believed it wouldn’t have waited till the last minute for inclusion, only forced after the Grayling Gaffe.

    As an aside, in presentation terms, having watched both launches, Brown did a far better job than Cameron who seemed uneasy, very repetitive and rattled through so quickly that it was impossible to keep up, with no applause throughout.

    Also, interesting how visually, yesterdays coverage showed a far more diverse Britain than today’s. Is Dave’s marketing not policies mask slipping?

  16. One of the ways politicians squidge on – oops, sorry, that should read cheat on – their supposed promises is by saying later that it “wasn’t in the manifesto”.

    The Labour manifesto contains several specific mentions of issues relevant to LGBT people, as follows:
    p.3.5 “More will be invested in anti-bullying interventions including tackling homophobic bullying”
    p.3.6 “compulsory, high quality Sex and Relationship Education” (I’m taking this to include a fair treatment and coverage of LGBT issues, as previously advocated)
    p.5.4 “Labour is proud to be the party that legislated first to criminalise incitement to racial hatred, religious hatred, and homophobic hatred – and we will reverse the Tory attempt to undermine this latest legislation, invoking the Parliament Act if necessary to force it through”
    p.2.4 “New legislation and the Equality and Human Rights Commission will ensure that people are not held back at work because of their gender, age, disability, race and religious or sexual orientation. The new Equality Act will be enforced, promoting fairness across our society.

    The Conservative manifesto ? Try searching it on all the key words – gay – LGBT – homophobic – homosexual. Nothing. Not one word, not one mention. So their get-out clause will clearly be, “it wasn’t in the manifesto”. The only thing they do say is that people in civil partnerships will get the same £3 tax refund as married people – but given that the law already guarantees the same treatment as married couples, all they’re doing is avoiding having to enact a specifically discriminatory clause.

    If the Tories mean what they say, why didn’t it make it into the manifesto ?

  17. Just to make this point absolutely clear:

    If you go to the http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Yourrightsandresponsibilities/DG_10026937 web page and scroll down to the Civil Partnership section, the first thing it tells you about the way Labour passed this law is that “Civil partners must be treated the same as married couples on a wide range of legal matters, including tax”.

    So when the Tories say that couples in a CP will get the same £3 tax break as a married couple, don’t imagine they are extending some great new advance in our direction. They are merely adopting the law which 122 Tory MPs voted against when Labour proposed it, which Tories in both Commons and Lords tried to wreck. The only alternative would be to promise a discriminatory law which immediately set about reversing some of the gains of the last 13 years. But they are giving us precisely nothing new. And nothing else specific to LGBT people makes it in there, apart from a promise to start stripping us of the protections offerd to us by Human Rights laws.

  18. Patrick James 13 Apr 2010, 3:48pm

    SimonM

    But Grayling is still on the Shadow front bench.

    Yes, indeed he is.

    I think the policies on LGBT issues given to Peter Tatchell at his meeting with George Osborne were just invented to undermine the protest and take some heat of the “sack Chris Grayling” campaign.

    Chris Grayling is valuable to the Conservatives because his continued presence as the Shadow Home Secretary is a clear message to the “homophobic vote” that the Conservatives value their support.

  19. As there’s an election on shouldn’t Peter Tatchell be referred to as “Green Party spokesman” as a matter of balanced reporting?

  20. BrazilBoysBlog 13 Apr 2010, 4:37pm

    As I said on another comments thread. Nothing that Cameron said is in the manifesto. It is the best excuse for doing nothing for us after the election.

    “It wasn´t in our manifesto!”

  21. Surprise surprise! Yet there are some people who will believe their empty promises.

  22. I hate to say this, but I told you so. The Tories are NOT to be trusted on LGBT issues, nor any promises that they make.

    The Tories are just desperate for ‘pink’ votes, that’s all.

  23. Hodge Podge 13 Apr 2010, 5:20pm

    Bloody hell, this bloke can’t even pull off a bit of tokenism. He’s either a really stupid politician or a bigot.

  24. Hey Tory guys and gals on here – any of you have any inkling of what’s going to be in the ‘Bill of Rights’ which will replace the Human Rights Act?

  25. Yeah Dave the Bill of Rights by the Tories will include the right to ram anti-gay religion down kids throats, the right to discriminate against gays in B&B’s, the right to abstain on votes of conscience for anything related to gay legislation and the right to talk a load of old pooh during elections but not include it in your manifesto…cheers!

  26. Nice to have but of the 3.6m people in the UK who we’re told are gay and lesbian, less than 2% are in a civil partnership. So more than 98% will see no personal benefit from any tax changes relating to civil partnerships.

    Up to the end of 2008 there had been only 33,956 civil partnerships in the UK, with just 7,169 that year and a declining number annually. I predict that if gay marriage ever gets the go-ahead even fewer will go for that due to the religious connotations.

    So, nice to have the option and the equality and all that, but in other respects to most people it’s irrelevant.

  27. Euan - London 13 Apr 2010, 6:54pm

    Squidgey, the first rock to hit you will be from a Tory voter and the first boot to kick you will be from a BNP/UKIP lout, not a Labour or Lib Dem supporter…

  28. for gods sake can the pro tory readers on pink news just admit their party is homophobic. no ones saying they can’t vote for a homophobic party. vote for who you want. but the tories are homophobic. a gay tory is like a jewish nazi or a black KKK member or an asian BNP. its just absurd, so stupid it makes me laugh. brainhacked morons.

    and btw, that squidgy person #8 i reckon is a member of the tory press HQ – he’s the one reporting back to cameron. I dont even think he is gay. hes just on here to promote the tories. he cares more about the tories getting into power than he does about gay rights.

  29. Sister Mary clarence 13 Apr 2010, 7:29pm

    If you don’t like them don’t vote for them but for Christ’s sake stop moaning about them on here. We’ve got weeks of this left and no one has got anything new to say

  30. Many of the real issues that have an effect on the visible LGBT community don’t get mentioned: alcohol problems, widespread unsafe sex and rising HIV infections among young men, rampant commercial exploitation, dodgy bloated gay charities and organisations, PR and marketing lies, destruction of safe spaces, removal of politics from Pride events, lack of non-profit spaces for events away from alcohol…

    It’s much easier for those who claim to represent us to witter on about gay marriage which hardly anyone will benefit from and the left-wing just want to attack the Tories because they know that most of the above has happened during the New Labour years.

  31. Pink News says: “Unusually in hardback form, it [the Tory manifesto] is likely to have been printed some time ago.”

    Right, so just as we have suspected, they’ve been winging it, making up their little concessions to LGBTs as they’ve been going along but clearly there has been no deliberate and considered effort put into the matter of protecting LGBTS and seeking to dignify us with equality.

    So now we know. The proof of the Tory pudding is in the Tory Manifesto.

  32. Give power to the people, the Tory have said today! Well, go visit forums beyond gay forums, and you find a substantial number of “the people” of the UK want us hung, drawn, and quartered! And just in case the few deluded Tory-addicts here need proof of that last statement, here’s a few comments from straight forums I’m keeping an eye on.

    “the army is fully of lesbians. loads of em. dirty fat, short haired butch women”

    “A couple of gays do your family a good turn and they are all ok? sorry mate if you want to let deviants look after your kids you get on with it. I’ll pass”

    “The Human race is geared for procreation, and without it would end, thus we have have women species and male species. This is reflected also in nature. So we can immediately see that two members of the same sex having sex is somewhat odd behaviour, if not slightly perverse. In today’s crazy PC world straight people are now deemed to live in the dark ages because they see same member sex as weird behaviour? You couldn’t make that up could you. Gay people are disease-ridden freaks that go against mother nature. Most of them put on a a quite ridiculous high pitched feminine voice and spend most of their twisted lives trying to shock straight people and gain reactions because of their odd sexual tendencies. Perverted? YOU DECIDE.”

    These comments come from those people to whom Call-Me-Dave is trying to appeal, i.e. his “Great Ignored”.

    His manifesto of today clearly proves that he prefers THEM to US.

  33. As I asked yesterday, to no avail, I would like for someone at PinkNews to give me a reference to back up their claim today and yesterday that Peter Tatchell said that the Conservatives promised to “quash” or even “erase” past convictions for consensual gay sex.

    PinkNews yesterday reported that Tatchell said that the Tories said in the meeting that they would “clear the record” of these men and today said that Tatchell said that they said that they would “strike the record”. The Times reported that they would “quash” the record.

    Yet, in a report done on UKgayNews, Peter Tatchell and Tamsin Omond QUOTE George Osborne as saying in the meeting, “We took the same view as the government on not including protection against homophobic harassment in the Equality Bill …. WHILE WE DON’T GO AS FAR SAYING THAT CONVICTIONS FOR PAST CONSENTING GAY OFFENCES SHOULD BE QUASHED, THEY SHULD BE REGARDED AS SPENT FOR THE PURPOSES OF CRIMINAL RECORD CHECKS…”

    Did everyone hear that. NOT “quashed”, NOT “cleared and NOT stricken but “considered spent”, meaning that it should be considered that the CRIMINAL has sufficiently served his sentence, has paid his debt to society, has served his sentence.

    That is VERY different than what has been reported here and in the Times. If what the Tories ACTUALLY said in the meeting had been reported correctly then no one would be claiming that they went back on their word today.

    This is a perfect example of why so many people are becoming frustrated with the way PinkNews is reporting so favorably and often about the Conservatives.

    I’m actually shocked that they posted this story today.

    Now, how long before this comment is censured.

  34. The report from which I obtained the quote above can be found here:

    http://ukgaynews.org.uk/Archive/10/Apr/1201.htm

  35. @ Eddy – if you think about some of the gay bashings and murders that have been in the news, and the kind of people who have been found guilty of them, feral teenagers, drug abusers etc. they don’t strike me as being natural Conservative voters! More likely lifelong Labour supporters from families where no one has worked for several generations and now looking at the BNP.

  36. Clearly the desperate last minute attempt to rush out some (any) sort of Gay pledge has completely failed. It’s now too late anyway. Even if the manifesto was printed weeks ago – he could have easily mentioned us in his manifesto speech, or got others to do some sort of press announcement. Total failure. And frankly I would have been amazed if he had.

    We have to encourage people to vote Lab/Lib to ensure they don’t repeal all the existing anti-gay laws. HRA protects us – you can bet a bill of rights will be a way for them to start repealing all of Labour’s good work.

  37. @ Jonathan2 don’t you mean you’re worried that the Tories might repeal the PRO-gay laws (not ‘anti-gay’). Repealing anti-gay laws is a good thing.

    But talk about scaremongering! As if the Tories will turn back the clock. How do you think gay Tory MPs would feel about that? And if it was Cameron’s secret intention why would he have selected gay candidates for seats? Get a grip!

  38. 37: Sorry, yep, I should have just said the ‘equality’ legislation. Not interested in Gay Tory MPs, I’m interesting in making sure they don’t do what they did in the 80s/90s. They brought in Section 28. I don’t think that was in their manifesto. As a person who once voted Tory (albeit very long ago) I would now never vote Tory. I had hope that Gay Tories here and elsewhere would feel more confortable if the Tories had give cast-iron pledges, but as it is they haven’t. They had their chance – they screwed it up. Can you imagine what they’d be like in Government. The real power is with the old guard deep within the company, and on the front bench, not in some fresh-fased ‘prospective’ Gay candidates. Sorry, you vote for them if you want – very few of your Gay brothers and sisters will.

  39. Jean-Paul Bentham 13 Apr 2010, 10:02pm

    Nice try Cameron, but no cigar.

  40. Justin Hinchcliffe 14 Apr 2010, 12:17am

    Hear we go again, Ms Green (aka “staff writer”). Change the record and report fairly

  41. It makes me laugh:-

    You want Equality. You want to stop this ‘them and us’ attitude. You want Freedom Of Speech, Freedom of Choice. You want to be part of this great democracy…

    Unless of course you gay. Then you have to follow and agree with everyone else. Do what they say. Do what they do. You have to Vote the same way regardless of how you feel because your not allowed to feel any different. You want ‘Us’ to vote to stop ‘Them’ doing whatever it is they Might or Might Not do..

    If you are gay and don’t follow and act on ‘these rules’ you clearly not gay at all, your a mole, you from some HQ, your selfish, a self-hater, you only think of yourself blah blah blah.

    Too right I think of myself. This is MY vote after all. For as long as I draw breathe that Will allows be the case. If I am putting the cross in the box, shouldn’t I be the one to choose where I place that cross? Or is being gay supposed to deny my right of choice?

    This is not Equality. How can you expect Equality if you think all gay people should do, think, act, behave and of course vote all the same way.

    You want to rid the ‘them and us’ but you keep this attitude alive all the time.

    You want to be treated with respect but abuse others for not thinking your way.

    You want Freedom and Equality yet you want to deny it to gay people. I personally don’t see how that works. Surely if you believe in something you act on it.

    I was brought up to be independant and proud. I wake up happy every morning. I am in love with life. I have the beautiful thing of a mind. I use it. It is mine to use. Not yours.

    So I am an out Very proud gay man who has my own opinions, my own thoughts. I wouldn’t change that for anything. And if some of you don’t like that, well tough really. My family and friends love me for who I am and wouldn’t change me. Guess I’m not on here to make friends but for as long as I can debate, I will.

    So make way because I have the Freedoms. I would happy invite you to join. You might actually find it a great experience and it opens a whole new world for you.

    I love my Life. I love my Freedoms. I will fight for more sure but my Freedoms don’t make me less of a Gay man they make more of a Gay man. After all isn’t this what we are all fighting for?

  42. Paul Deards 14 Apr 2010, 9:44am

    t might not be in the printed manifesto, but it’s all up there on their online version:

    http://www.conservatives.com/Policy/Where_we_stand/Women_and_Equality.aspx

    “Too many British people face discrimination because of their race, gender, age, sexual orientation, religion, belief or background and Conservatives want action to bring that to an end.

    We support civil partnerships and will recognise civil partnerships in the tax system. Our plans to end the couple penalty in the tax credits system and to introduce a new system of flexible parental leave will apply to all couples, regardless of whether they are heterosexual or same sex couples.
    We supported legislation to outlaw the offence of inciting homophobic hatred and pushed the Government to introduce it.

    We will change the rules so that historical convictions for consensual gay sex will be removed from a person’s criminal record and we will take action to tackle homophobic bullying in schools.”

  43. :41, Squidgy, I had hope that Cameron would come through. Even if I wouldn’t be voting for him, it might make other Gay people feel comfortable that they wouldn’t take away our rights, make us 2nd class citizens again, and introduce another Section 28.

    Your point about ” ‘them and us’ “.

    Who do you think created ‘them and us’ ? It was the Tories.

    I’m happy for you if you are happy with their policies (if they have any – well, apparently they now don’t).

    We can’t afford to go back, we need to be going forward with parties which work to give us equality – not try to abuse us.

    IMHO. And it is only my opinion.

  44. :42, Hi.
    Well, that’s no good enough. Chris Grayling is still going to be the Homophobic Home Secretary if they get in. And it’s absolutely pointless putting rubbish like that on your web site – most Gay people aren’t going to waste their time looking at your web site. You have to come out and tell people – press conference, and make it clear you’re talking about Gay Rights – not just equality in general.

    The Tories have failed to get their message across. They should prepare for another 5 years on the opposition benches. :-)

  45. http://mygayvote.co.uk/

    Actions (many of them just recenhtly) speak louder than words.

    Vote Labour, or Vote LibDem – which ever keeps the homohobes out.

  46. Jonathan2:-

    Your ‘them & us’ arguement may well be true I won’t deny that, you May be right but it’s gay people that have made themselves the victim but continously repeating it and acting as if it was the case. I have Never allowed that kind of attitude around me and I don’t let anyone get away with it. You do find you get respect for standing up for yourself but without rubbing people’s noses in it.

    My reasons for voting goes along the line of:-

    1) The state of the economy – It would be nice to be gay and have prospects not gay and bankrupt. Rough with the smooth, I know but we were in a good position until Labour starting changing It’s mind over who should get Equality.

    2) Immigration – It’s all very well screaming about our rights when so many people are being allowed into the country who are homophobic. Surely that lessens our voice. Also when immigrates enter our country they should be told of british laws and how they work. That includes the fact that homosexuality is Not a crime. If the people coming here can’t accept that and have homophobic views then they should be instantly denied entrance.

    3) Gay Rights – They are important but I don’t feel they will disappear with the Tories. They may be slow and they definitely will make mistakes but I think I can personally give them a chance.

    I actually do support changing the British Human Rights Act to a UK Bill of Rights. The Human Rights act is totally abused and it seems to go a long way in helping those willing to abuse the system. It does little to protect the innocent law abiding citizens.

    Prisoners use it to protect their rights but which usually go against the victim.

    Terrioist seem to have more human rights over the people they want to kill and maim.

    What it’ll contain, we’ll have to wait and see. I don’t have a crystal ball.

  47. Oh and Labour have already introduced another section 28. It’s called Amendment 70!

  48. Squidgy, I understand your points.

    The only think that I would say is:

    If you are voting (single issue, or first issue, or you are scoring the parties 1-10), you can give the Tories 1/10, but Labour and LibDems 9/10. For me, it’s my ‘first issue’ – because I’ve decided it’s so important for me and the Gay community. For you it’s perhaps your 3rd issue.

    If you give each issue scores, and weight each issue according to priority, e.g. first issue points*3, seconds issue points*2, third issue – just the points, you should arrive at a score for each party. Obviously, the issues must remain the same to each party. So if your 3rd issue is Gay rights and you give, say, 3/10 for Tories but 9/10 for Labour and 10/10 for Liberals.

    If the election is so important more people ought to consider using some sort of score cards, I think.

  49. Sorry Jonathan I should have said I listed in accordance of priority to me.

  50. To me Labour have abused both our economy and the issues of immigration so that’s why they are at the bottom of any party, even the small parties. The Tories have stated they wish to sort both. Plus I do like the people power which does tend to come from the Tories not the usual State power of Labour.

  51. Squidgy said: “Oh and Labour have already introduced another section 28. It’s called Amendment 70!”

    Labour and Conservatives both wanted and voted for this amendment in the House of Commons. Lib Dems voted against. Furthermore Lib Dem Baroness Walmsley tried to get the faith school concession removed from the Bill on 7th April. Most Conservative and Labour Lords allied to defeat her attempt.

  52. A Very fair point dave. So it isn’t going to make any difference if I vote Tory just to get Labour out them is it.

    I will be voting Lib Dem in my local Election though.

  53. Squidgy say: “To me Labour have abused both our economy and the issues of immigration so that’s why they are at the bottom of any party”

    Take note people. The ONLY reason Squidgy ever offers for voting Tory is the fact that they are not the Labour Party.

    Which is fair enough I suppose.

    But why would any gay person disillusioned with Labour EVER vote for homophobic scum like the Tories.

    We do not live in a 2 party system.

    Squidgy could express his disillusion with the Labour Party by voting for a party which does not regard him as scum. He COULD vote for the LibDems or the Greens.

    He will not. He will ONLY vote Tory.

    But when asked we he is voting Tory he replies ‘They are not Labour’

    Are you gay Squidgy? Does the Tory Party pay your wages? Are you one of those pathetic ‘Gay Uncle Toms’ of that ridiculous LGBTory Group?

  54. I have already explained that I usually am a Lib Dem supporter on actually numerous occasions. However I feel that Labour is doing such a bad job that I feel a vote for a small party is a vote to keep Labour in. That is not what I, personally want. I have to vote Tory in the hope many others do to get Labour out.

  55. SimonM,
    You’re being a hit harsh. He’s just said he’ll be voting LibDem in the Local Elections. So will I + general election. I’m in a seat where the boundary has changed but Labour will still take the seat by a large number — perhaps ! Every one has a right to his/her opinion – elections are devisive. But I think we all agree who would be best for Gay Rights. LibDem 10/10, Labour 8/10, Conservative 1/10 (for me). Must rush, gotta go uptown to see a pal.

  56. And simon, I know many MPs Tory and otherwise and they have never seems me as scum!

  57. Oh and Simon – The Answers you seek about me:-

    1) Yes I am Gay
    2) Not they don’t pay my wages
    3 No, I’m not party of any political party LGBT or otherwise.

  58. Squidgy – you can blow it out your ass if you think people choose to be victims, for many their sexuality influences their political inclinations, money isn’t that important for many plus the Liberals are a viable alternative to keep on going with either Labour/Tories
    also – I’m the son of a Tory who treated me like scum and certainly thinks like that

  59. Squidgy: “And simon, I know many MPs Tory and otherwise ”

    You KNOW many Tory MP’s?

    How many Tory MP’s are there at present?

    And how therefore can you KNOW many of them if you are just an ordinary punter?

    The fact that you know ‘many’ of them is a strong indication that you may be stretching the truth (A.K.A. ‘lying’) when you stress your impartiality.

    Tell me Squidgy – do you agree that Chris Grayling and Iain Duncan Smith should be sacked from the Tory Party for their homophobia?

    Do you agree that the Law and Justice Party in Poland are a bunch of extreme right neo-fascist homophobes?

    If not then why not?

  60. Squidge just likes being the spotlight. He says he’s not interested in voting according to gay rights but according to other issues, like the economy, health, education, etc. So why the hell then does he spend half his life (or more )on a website that is concerned with LGBT rights?

    I think I have put my finger on a fundamental lack of integrity and congruity?

  61. Pete T:-

    I have Never said I’m not interested in gay rights. Do read threads. Doesn’t the economy, immigration, health, education effect gay people too. Last time I checked they do, maybe I’m wrong. My ultimate interest has to be the economy and immigration. I have pointed out why.

    I’m here because I’m gay and clearly am interested in gay rights however it is your words to say im not so thats really your problem/issue. I just look at things differently. Doesn’t make me right or you wrong. It just mean I have the freedom of choice, thought and speech and I will express it.

    I have said that whilst I am voting Tory in the General Election I am voting Lib Dem in the local.

    May I also point out that the reason for my vote in the General Election this year is Exactly the same for my voting for Labour in 1997. To get the disaster of the current lot out.

    Pick and choose words in threads all you like but don’t assume unless you actually know what I have said.

    Simon I have continiously answered your last questions before so you already know that in principal I agree with you on both men and no I don’t agree with the Polish party. I won’t be answering again if you ask. It’s pointless. Also your point about who I know is interesting. You too fell into a trap. I did deliberately put Tory and ‘otherwise’ just to prove you just see what you want. I’ve known MPs across all parties so not sure what your point is. Also I’m fed up with answering your questions when clearly you choose to ignore them. Ask them by all means but actually read the responses. If you don’t want to know don’t ask.

  62. Sound as offended as you like, Squidge, and make yourself out to be some kind of victim if you like, but you’ve been rumbled.

    If you are not primarily concerned with issues concerning gay & lesbian rights (as we are), then go vent your spleen on blogs concerned with economy, immigration, health, and education etc.

    And as you are so enamoured of Tories then the blogs you depart for should be Tory ones. Go be with your people and their concerns.

    Bye-bye.

  63. People, now that we know the TRUTH of the Tories, not that we ever hoped their manifesto would have a page devoted to relieving us of the continuing burden of homophobia, many of us need to start thinking about responsible tactical voting on May 6.

    How many people have looked ahead and worked out what their voting alternatives are IN THEIR AREA?

    In my area we unfortunately have a Tory MP at the moment. In the last election he only just made it “past the post”. (The Liberal Democrat candidate was just behind.) Unfortunately in the last election the Labour candidate in this area received only about a third of the votes that the Lib Dem candidate received.

    So, in this area, despite there being about half a dozen candidates due to stand on May 6, each from different parties, the “race” will really only between TWO of them. And again, like last time, it will probably be very close.

    Hence, although I truly want to vote Labour, for ME to vote Labour in MY area, would be to throw away my chance at making sure the Tory candidate does NOT win. Hence, I MUST vote Lib Dem.

    If I were to vote Labour in my area, I would increase the chances of the Tory candidate winning and if enough Tories win in all the different areas of this country they will get in. And we now know from their manifesto that they are most certainly NOT “heart and soul” out for progressing, ensuring, and preserving LGBT equalities.

    I’m just spelling this out because I think it’s important that other voters in similar situations may also need to think ahead and to VOTE TACTICALLY on 6 May.

  64. Not offended at all and I most certainly ain’t a ‘victim’. You’ll need to do better than that to put me down.

    It’s your choice to not read threads properly and make it up as you go along.

    I shall be staying put thank you.

  65. Poor me! Poor little Squidgey. Everybody’s against me.

  66. Thought you’ld all enjoy this. Don’t know who said it. (Received it via distribution list – which shows a lot of people are having a good laugh about it! And rightly so!

    “David Cameron has been quoting John F Kennedy in his speeches. Well the words may be John F Kennedy but the policies are pure George W Bush. When JFK said he would send a man to the moon he didn’t say ‘Build your own rocket!’.”

  67. Squidgy, you sound like a tory spin doctor. “Doesn’t the economy, immigration, health, education effect gay people too” – yes they do, but not as much as homophobic legislation that represses us and turns us into second class citizens like they did the last time they were in power.
    Just admit you’re voting (working in HQ) for a homophobic party Squidgy – that’s all we want you to do. You’re free to do that. No one’s saying otherwise. I repsect your freedom of opinion and right to vote for a homophobic party. But some of us need to hear you say you know the tories are homophobic.

  68. Everyone knows how much the Labour party changed in the decade before it came to power in 1997 but the hysterical left-wing posters on this site would have us believe that Labour is the only party that is capable of change. I’m starting to think some of them need to be put onto medication for paranoia and having a persecution complex.

    In the past LGBT people voted LibDem, Liberal, SDP and Conservative. Yes even in the 1980’s lots voted Conservative because they looked at ALL the issues rather than only the ‘gay’ ones. They did it then and they sure as hell will do it this election.

    The aim of the left-wing posters is to frighten the under-30’s with dire warnings about what might happen. Trying to scare people is the New Labour way: remember how Saddam could supposedly hit us with missiles in 45 minutes and warnings of the terror threat which largely has failed to materialise. For an insight into all of this I can recommend the BBC series The Power of Nightmares which you can download from archive.org. But in a nutshell the game played by Tony Blair and co was: terrify the population and then promise to protect them. And that is what is going on in the comments section here on Pink News. Don’t vote Tory or Section 28 will be brought back! Just laughable…

    The sky won’t fall in if David Cameron is elected. In fact the change will be a very good thing. On the whole we had a great time in the 1980’s despite Margaret Thatcher and AIDS. The gay pubs and clubs were fantastic in those days and there was a good sense of community which has gone now.

    I had some respect for John Major who was Prime Minister from 1990 to 1997. The Conservatives are actually strong on liberty for everyone. In contrast Labour is the party that has cracked down on the right to protest and other freedoms, gone ahead with ID cards, has put CCTV on every street corner and brought in legislation that allows the police to hassle and intimidate photographers and other people. The latest is the digital economy bill.

  69. GS p- was it also fantastic with section 28 in force? Thatcher and many with their homophobic rants and lies? The people who committed suicide thanks to homophobia? Please don’t try to ignore the homophobic side of the past
    also – many people feel that equality is more important then money etc! What’s the point of having money if you can’t be out of the closet or feel safe from being attacked etc cos of your sexuality?

  70. Jay:-

    Maybe you should stop trying to get me to say anything. I’m hardly going to vote for a party if I thought they were homophobic would I?

    So no I won’t say want you want. Yes they did lean that way years ago but I genuinely feel they are trying to change. Plus they have openly gay MP’s so I’m not scare to give them a chance. How can we move forward if we constantly stay in the past in fear of the future. There will be another General Election in 4-5 years time you know.

    The result if Labour remain will be disasterous for all gay rights in years to come as we watch the BNP grow. So my vote, TO ME, is trying to protect what we do have.

    And in any case I have already stated my Local vote is going to the Lib Dems.

  71. Chester:-

    but you (and many others) seem to think the day the Tories get in thats it, homosexuality will be illegal. It won’t! Nothing will change. Our right will still be there.

    This is all fear, ok I guess I can understand it to a point but it holds us back esp when there is no evidence to support it just gossip.

  72. “The gay pubs and clubs were fantastic in those days and there was a good sense of community which has gone now.”

    I have to agree with you there GS. Something I have always felt. There seems to be less choice of pub and club nowadays hence the reason I’ve stopped clubbing.

    Have to say though no matter what party gets in I very much doubt that’ll happen again, although would be nice.

  73. Squidgy – the tory mantra is about responsibilities and not rights plus many tories would love to remove a lot of equal rights Labour gave!
    the tories are repeatedly shown to be more homophobic then they are portrayed by their own spin and yet many ignore that!

  74. GS @ #68 “On the whole we had a great time in the 1980’s despite Margaret Thatcher and AIDS.”

    GS, YOU believe that all of we gay men had a “great time in the 1980’s despite Margaret Thatcher and AIDS”?

    You are very very wrong.

    Furthermore you are shamefully, shamefully, and disgustingly, INSULTING!

    I will go so far as to say your attitude as expressed above is irresponsible and SICK!

    I was a teacher who suffered under the gagging law (Section 28) of Margaret Thatcher and the Tory Party, who were in power at that time! EVERY employee in my school, and every school in the land, went in fear everyday of being reported by a pupil to a gutter-press newspaper as having said or done something in favour of gays or lesbians! It was a time of oppression and fear! You clearly were removed from this hideous draconian reality. You fail to appreciate the hideous of it.

    Furthermore, GS, for you to say that YOU had a great time while THOUSANDS of gay men in this country died hideous, ugly, painful, long, and slow death from AIDS, is utterly despicable! I knew of and saw 25 people who died horribly from AIDS during the 80s. I didn’t have “a great time” while that occurred. How could I? How could anyone? Those 25 people were not close to me. But no decent human being with even half a heart could possibly have had “a great time” while that catastrophe occurred.

    SHAME on you.

  75. @ Eddy – I think you’re someone who has difficulty accepting that other people have different views and have had different experiences in life.

    When I said ‘we’ I meant me, my boyfriend at the time and our circle of friends. I wasn’t claiming to speak for everyone (I leave that up to you).

    I’m sorry you had a bad time but that doesn’t alter other peoples’ experiences of the 1980’s and some weren’t affected by AIDS and Section 28 in the way you were. Despite being out and on the scene from 1983 onwards I was lucky that I wasn’t affected in the way you wewre.

    That doesn’t mean we didn’t raise money, support events and go on protests. But personally I had a lot of fun in the 1980’s. That’s a fact and nothing you say is going to change it.

  76. @ Chester – maybe you can explain why LGBT people are stabbed to death, glassed, pushed into the canal, raped and subjected to homophobic and transphobic abuse in and around Manchester’s gay village in these wonderful times that we live in now, when that never used to happen 25 years ago?

    Yes it’s all about spending money now isn’t it? And rampant profiteering is the thing that has destroyed our gay community, Pride events and safe spaces. Fewer suicides maybe (but not certain). These days people are having their lives ruined by alcohol, crystal meth and HIV.

    Maybe you should start campaigning against hen parties and their pilled-up thug boyfriends in gay venues and restore some of our safe spaces? But oh no that would be anti-equality…

  77. @ Chester – maybe you can explain why LGBT people are stabbed to death, glassed, pushed into the canal, raped and subjected to homophobic and transphobic abuse in and around Manchester’s gay village in these wonderful times that we live in now, when that never used to happen 25 years ago?

    Such crimes were harldy ever reported back then in those dark times you foolish man! There was no legilsation to protect us. The police were hostile. Furthermore, in Manchester and Birmingham and everywhere else around the country the police used agent provocateur tatcics round the clock to arrest gay men.

    Now, thanks to all of the legislation that has been passed under the Labour govermnent, we are protected, there are gay police taskforces, people are reporting homophobic crime, there is now a homophobic hate crmie number you can ring, and for the first time in British history there are statitsics being produced as to how many homophobic hate crimes there are.

    At the same time, the right-wingers and the fascists, including the Christians and the Muslims, are kicking and screaming against the legislation that protects us and this is causing hostility from them to us.

    Have you been asleep for the past twenty years?

  78. And what age are you Owen? Do tell… Were you actually around in the 1980’s or is this all what you’ve ‘learnt’ about those days from the media?

    As someone who was around in Manchester at the time I can tell you that during the whole of the 1980’s I never witnessed one fight in or around any gay venue. Nor did I have any friends who were attacked or abused. The first homophobic attack I experienced around Canal Street was around 1995 when the straights started arriving. We came out of Cruz101 and were pelted with bottles with verbal abuse and it has continued from there. I was even threatened while watching the Pride parade in 2008. The police weren’t interested! They didn’t want any embarrassing stats on Pride day…

  79. I really worry about the way the past is being misrepresented to young people to make current times seem better. It’s very sinister.

    The suggestion that people didn’t hear about what went on in and around the gay bars and city centre in Manchester in the 1980’s because it wasn’t ‘reported’ to the police is just ludicrous. We had a network of friends, we had local magazines and the gay centre.

    There seems to be this myth that in the 1980’s we were all shamefully scurrying around between bars with no windows, living isolated lives where no one knew anyone else and we spent all our time crying due to the Tories. For many people it wasn’t like that at all. We dressed differently and for that reason we were visible, out and proud.

    The left, certain activists and some gay businesses do this so they can ‘big up’ their ‘you’ve never had it so good’ message. The truth is that some things have changed for the better (especially if you’re a well-off white male) but other things are worse.

  80. Bingo. bareback says all we need to know about the gay “community”.

  81. again you misrepresent the 80’s GS and Owen is right
    Dean – does it? many people do not use condoms including heteros yet nothing’s said about heteros

  82. dean:-

    A very ignorant and somewhat outdated view.

    The ‘hetero’ scene where many men refuse to use a condom believing protection should be the woman’s responsiblity. They also refuse to go to STD clinic’s too, usually only after it has been far too late. Whilst some gay people aren’t acting responsibly most don’t have the fear of using clinics.

    Gay people always unfairly get this find of ‘straight brainwashed’ critism but Always convienently forget that with their own community they are indeed much worse.

  83. GS, you just sound like an old man crying because his fun years are behind him.

  84. David Cameron: “I met a wonderful disabled man in a wheelchair last week who told me that quite frankly he was delighted to see that the Conservative Party has had the good sense not to formulate more legislation to advantage homosexuals instead of heterosexuals!”

  85. can you give the link to that quote please eddy? would like to read the whole story.

  86. he’s joking James. They’re quotes from that fridgemagnet site that someone posted a URL to somewhere on here to show one of the formulae that Cameron is using to try and win support. Its sort of

    A. take one disadvantage minority that PC says everyone should feel sorry for

    B. take one traditional deep-seated Tory attitude that you want to support

    then say that you met A and he told you B.

    Cameron’s been using it in interviews and he used it several times in last week’s debate.

    insidious but clever

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