9 days after the comments were recorded he makes this half-hearted apology. Feeling the heat perhaps? Unhappy with the fact that by supporting this homophobic discrimination the Tories are almost as vile as the BNP are?
And ss Grayling apologises, another nasty Tory bigot Andrew Brigden states his support for homophobic discrimination by B&B owners.
Do Brigden and Grayling support the ‘right’ of B&B owners to turn away mixed-race couples in the same way they support the ‘right’ of B&B owners to discriminate against gay couples?
The Tories are veering into BNP territory here.
to little to late – you didn’t give the wrong impression you were being truthful and got caught you spineless man.
If I can find and understand the law in question why cant a future home secretary?
Goods, facilities and services
4.—(1) It is unlawful for a person (“A”) concerned with the provision to the public or a section of the public of goods, facilities or services to discriminate against a person (“B”) who seeks to obtain or to use those goods, facilities or services—
* accommodation in a hotel, boarding house or similar
Mr Grayling seems incapable of performing the task of home secretary, so should resign from the CONservative front bench immediately.
Amazing how these people apologise after the fact. A taste of things to come once they get into power. If Cameron had said it, you can bet the tory apologists who post here would still vote for him and accuse us of being overly sensitive.
If a gay restaurant refused to cater to straight clientele, there would be a bigger stink. In my view if these people are opening their homes to the public and taking money for the services rendered, they should not be allowed to discriminate against any section of society even if it conflicts with their religious beliefs. They wouldn’t dare advertise “christians” only are welcome now would they?
In principle, this apology could have been a good thing. But sadly, Grayling has waited too long to offer it, and secondly, he’s made it look like homophobia is some sort of Tory Party relay race – Grayling only apologises after going to Leics NW, where the Tory candidate picks up and runs with the ‘let B&B owners ban gays’ issue. The stink that come soff this suggests that Grayling may have asked the guy to take over, so he (Grayling) could give a worthless apology.
No Chris Grayling, we didn’t get the “wrong impression” at all, we’re not that stupid y’know. You’re words were carefully chosen to express your view, which is bigoted & homophobic, no matter how you’ve voted in the past. I hope you don’t drag your personal opinions into future votes.
All this wittering on about homophobia. The man just made a comment IN PRIVATE. You people really need to get some perspective and see what REAL homophobia is about. Try visiting Lithuania or Poland, EU members on your own doorstep, then you would have something to bitch on about.
Just because the press was not invited to the event Grayling was talking at does not make it private Rob_N!
This Tory creature Andrew Bridgen is unbelievable! Do they think we’re stupid suckers????
He’s said: “At the end of the day our policy is, we voted for the Equality Bill and as far as people who run a business, they have to offer the same services to everyone. But I do have sympathy with someone who is opening up their own home to a guest. A public house has the right to refuse a customer and they don’t have to give a reason, so I have considerable sympathy for B&B owners in this case.”
With one side of his mouth he’s said the law is the law and with the other side of his mouth he’s full of sympathy for service providers who wish to turn away gays.
AND he even goes so far as to advise them how to do it without being seen to be breaking the Equality Act: refuse the customer and simply don’t give the real reason!
“Oh, I’m awfully sorry, Peter and Paul, would love to have you both, but, oh, dear, we’ve gone and made a double-booking. So sorry!”
So what was the “right” impression we were supposed to have taken? Note he is not apologising for what he said.
Yawn, yawn , yawn.
Meanwhile back in the real world, when you need some real biggotry one has to trawl the slimey depths of planet labour:
The “I want I banana grown by a slave” comment is truly special.
Spin that one Labour Biggots.
anything for a vote that cowardly homphobe. but aren’t they all hah!
Interesting you mention Poland given the Tory party being in alliance with the deeply homophobic law & justice party Rob_N.
Why havent the B&B owners been arrested and charged by the Police ? Why should the couple have to sue them themselves ?
That is taking the piss…
When are we going to hear David Cameron`s opinion on this issue? I suspect NEVER- unless they win the next election and start “tinkering with the equality laws as they affect gay people”.
With Chris Grayling in place as Home Secretary-at least he`ll have the right person in post to do the job.
Reading the posts on this thread, one would think that this is a surprise to some of you. I have been saying since i joined this site three months ago that Callmedave the Salesmans Law and Justice racist homophobic tory Party hasn’t changed and won’t change.
They have always been homophobic and always will be bacause they are deeply xtian or at least pretend to be when it suits them. Just as they will pretend to uphold equality laws until they are elected ,and once they are installed or IF they are installed in Downing st. we will see the true cut of their jib.
And any fool who thinks they won’t roll back laws already enacted is in for a rough ride. they will ride rough shod over any law they don’t like, and those are extensive.
Also anyone who thinks they will take any heed of Europe is deluding themselves. For twenty years Europe and the USA fought with them over their conduct in Ireland and they just carried on regardless.
Also the precedent set last week with juryless courts will become common place, as will conscription of school leavers who don’t go on to third level education. They will be “trained” for a couple of weeks and sent off as cannon fodder to Afganistan, and also Iran because Dave the salesman won’t be strong enough to stand up to the hawks and arms manufacturers and arms dealers and will open up theatres of war all over the place. The peace process in Ireland will be allowed to come to the wall when Peter Robinsons DUP implodes because of corruption. And there is no way the Racist tories will allow Sinn Fein to become the leading party and hence ascend to the office of First minister. The “interest of state security” will once again be the mantra of the day.
SQUIDGY… This is and opinion and not an attack on you……just in case you think it is.
Betwwen 2001 and 2009, Grayling claimed for a flat in Pimlico, close to the House of Commons, despite having a constituency home less than 17 miles away and owning two buy to let properties in Wimbledon. Grayling claimed over £100,000 for the flat between 2001 and 2007. The Daily Mirror reported that Grayling would benefit from the increase in the price of the flat, at least £100,000. Grayling says he uses the flat when “working very late” because he needs to “work very erratic and late hours most days when the House of Commons is sitting.”
During the Parliamentary expenses scandal, The Daily Telegraph reported that Grayling refitted and redecorated the flat in 2005 at a cost of thousands of pounds. The newspaper alleged Grayling “spread the cost over two years” by submitting receipts in both 2005-06 and 2006–07, avoiding the upper limit for expense claims. Grayling said that both the water and electrical systems failed “leaving the place needing a major overhaul”
Oh and Grayling is a Roman Catholic too!
George: “Interesting you mention Poland given the Tory party being in alliance with the deeply homophobic law & justice party Rob_N.”
I am currently in the middle of the final edit of a film about Poland, homophobia and the Law & Justice party. The stuff on here will make your hair curl. If only some twat going on about Bed & Breakfasts was all they had to worry about… It is deeply disturbing. Once I have the edit done, I’ll get some posts up.
Abi1975: I really think it’s rather inappropriate to start digging up expenses dirt on the guy. OK, so he’s had his hands in the trough, but equally so have all the others, so don’t single out individuals, or even parties, because if you want to examine ‘facts’, the wonderful gay-friendly Labour party have stolen WAY more from the public purse than the Tories. I would keep your trap shut on that one if I were you.
Come off it Rob_N he already hat three home in London and still claimed £100,000 for a fourth!
This is a man who want to be home secretary responsible for law and order!
He is totally discredited by his expenses claims!
If he does become home secretary he will have his 5th London home.
@7 Rob_N… “You people really need to get some perspective and see what REAL homophobia is about. Try visiting Lithuania or Poland, EU members on your own doorstep, then you would have something to bitch on about.”
Perhaps we won´t NEED to dear.. With the Tory party in power, (a party who SUPPORTS these homophobic regimes with their EU partnership), I´m sure we will see similarities within BRITAIN shortly!
The road back to the kind of bigoted attitudes and legislation countries like Poland have is a very slippery one, and I am certain that the Torys will be happy to provide the homophobes with THE ICE they need to get there.
I hope I am wrong, but if/when the Tory party become the next government, I will REMIND the Tory apologists on here EVERY TIME one of our current rights is either lost or watered down by these religious fanatics.
ROBN, you seem to have forgotten that this is probably the next home secretary. and you think that is acceptable for him to be homophobic? just because some backward european country is worse than here doesn’t mean that this man should be able to get away with what he said and we should all forget it and forgive him – because gays in poland have got it worse. maybe you should wake up and stop bitching about everyone on here. we are gay people trying to gain equality. all you seem to go on about is how those of us who are trying to get that equality are f_ckwits. i think you are the f_ckwit.
I know that the camera can lie.
But doesn’t Chris Grayling look very sinister in the picture used with this story.
Then again he is a Tory.
And all the stories about the Tories (also known as the the Law and Justice Party) are very worrying when it comes to the question of LGBT rights.
I think he looks very much like a clone of Ian Duncan Smith in that pic Simon :)
He should never had to apologise just because some spineless journalist went to secretly record him. He was wrong but it was just a personal opinion. Freedom of Speech is about things we don’t to hear as we as things we do. He had already said it wasn’t party policy and that he wouldn’t change anything.
On a separate issue the Tories have spelt out their plans for marriage tax breaks. It will be for lower earns and will include civil partnerships. I for one do believe the Tory party is ready to be given a chance.
Do I think they’ll make mistakes? Yes of course they will but I do think they are going to try with the best intentions. They won’t drop our rights. If I don’t like it I’ll vote for someone else in 4/5 years time.
We believe in the Freedom of Speech but not when this right causes hatred and violence towards minority groups.
Pete & Michael: “We believe in the Freedom of Speech but not when this right causes hatred and violence towards minority groups.”
Well it’s not freedom then, is it? Prats.
You can’t have it both ways, people can either say what they like, or they can’t. Your choice.
But Squidgy, as spineless as tabloid hacks can be (and who are also reviled by any decent ‘real’ journalist), if Chris Grayling truly was not homophobic then there would have been nothing to catch him out on. Part of the reason why these hacks hounds certain politicians, is because they previously state one stance on a public issue, but are suspected of being hypocritical and so hacks try to catch them out. If they were not hypocrites, then they would give no ammunition to these people in the first place.
Hang on a minute, Grayling is shadow Home Secretary, hopes to hold one of the great offices of state very soon. He was speaking at a ‘think tank’ event. If you listen to the (very low quality) recording, this isn’t Grayling making an off-the-cuff private remark, it’s part of a very long reply to a formally put question at a public meeting. He’s not been ‘trapped’ in a private moment, he may not have known the recording was being made but he was clearly speaking on his view of public policy in front of a large number of people.
Rob_N, I realise you go out of your way to insult and offend, but you are quite intelligent enough to know that there are limits on freedom of speech. The effective limit is that you can incur a legal liability, for example you have absolute freedom of speech to libel someone but may end up paying damages to them for your libel. You have absolute freedom of speech to shout ‘Fire’ in a crowded cinema, but if people are trampled to death in the rush for the exit, you may go to prison for doing it. And as Pete & Michael said above, speech that leads to hatred and violence towards minorities should and is abhorred, should not be freely permitted. Maybe you don’t like that, but the freedom to provoke violence against LGBT people is not just a bullies’ charter, it is something which over the years has led to many people being beaten, terrified and sometimes murdered. I don’t think you believe in that ‘freedom’ at extreme cost to innocent victims.
Squidgy said “They won’t drop our rights.”
Don’t forget that the Tory party is against women’s equality. I’m pretty sure they will deny IVF treatment to lesbians and to single women.
Tolerance of homophobia is coming your way. When you are denied your rignts because of your sexual orientation, you can lay part of the blame on the doorsteps of those who are defending the ordinance of a party that has consistently worked to deny your rights.
You clearly have the advantage of your crystal ball Bobbet. Personally I think your wrong. Now they have spoken about marriage tax breaks to include civil partnerships too, I feel confident enough to know we need them to get us out of this mess Labour have sunk us into.
Cwis Gayling? oooo what’s ‘ee like? Come o’er to Pineapple Studios an’ we’ll show you wot you’re missing big boy.
“Oh and Grayling is a Roman Catholic too!” – while I loathe New Labour and the Tories as much as the next person I am not sure that anti-Catholic bigotry is useful. In the election I will be contacting candidates to ask them not if they are Catholics (or Jews or Protestants or Pastafarians) but whether they have affiliations that will lead them to act in bigoted ways. To attack someone simply because they are Catholic is bigotry.
He (and the Tories) keep saying that he voted for the Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2007. He didn’t. He didn’t vote against them but he didn’t vote for them either. This was because he wasn’t a member of the committee that debated them (which is all available here: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmgeneral/deleg12/070315/70315s01.htm#07031530000287)
Interesting perspectives from all on this issue and the larger issues around Gay Equality.
The public at large criticise politicians, of all parties, for not co-operating on the major issues for the common good of all society.
I find it particularly disheartening that the LGBT community members on here prefer to attack each other rather than find common ground. A united LGBT community would achieve far more if we didn’t descend into personal attacks and name calling.
Whoever wins the election, we will still unfortunately, have to fight hard to ensure our voice is heard.
There are clearly some passionately held views and beliefs from some very intelligent people on here.
Could this not be channelled into a positive, productive, community wide basis for achieving what is in all of our interests?
Just a thought on a slow Saturday morning.
Tom in E14: Let’s get something straight here: There is no such thing as a ‘gay community’ – it is a myth propagated by left-wing militants in order to show a collective force. The only similarity we have with each other is who we go to bed with. Period.
The fact that we may all want the same things only indicates that we might all be moving in similar directions, but politically, we have varied views, and the majority of LGBT people really couldn’t give a flying toss.
As for a “quiet Saturday morning”, it may be for you, but since the news of the (homophobic) Polish President, my phone hasn’t stopped ringing.
RobN, because YOU are not part of the gay community (or any gay community, it seems), do not claim that there is no gay community.
Your arguement is easily shot to pieces.
You’ve heard of Stonewall, haven’t you. It is a group of people who are gay and who are working together for gay rights. They are indisputably “a community”. Furthermore, they have very strong links with other such communities of similar size. All of these scores of communities throughout the land are linked, and they comprise “the gay community”.
Clearly you have not been present on any gay pride march and experienced the thrill of being part of that community.
Clearly you were not present in Manchester of London in 1989 when several hundred of thousand politically-aware members of the gay and lesbian community got together for enormous rallies in both centres to fight against the Tories imposition of Section 28 – which still the Tories passed into law, thereby effectively gagging anyone employed in any school from being seen to condone homosexuality.
And, lastly, by continually visiting this LGBT website as you do, RobN, you are actively participating in THIS particular LGBT community AT LEAST.
Thus, your argument that “gay community” is a myth has been blown to smithereens. Please don’t bore us again with your self-hating nonsense.
With regard to the Cookham Bigots, readers may be interested to read the latest news on the thread titled “Gay couple will decide next week whether to sue”.
“A public house has the right to refuse a customer and they don’t have to give a reason, so I have considerable sympathy for B&B owners in this case.”
It just goes to show how muddled their thinking is, doesn’t it? If a public house refused entry to a gay person or gay couple – without giving a reason, then they would have the right to take legal action against the pub licensee. And the burden of proof would be on the pub licensee to demonstrate that the refusal was NOT related to their sexual orientation.
The law is clear on these matters. If one operates a business for commercial gain, then one has to treat everyone equally.
Squidgy. I don’t have a crystal ball, neither do you. Remember this. My analysis is based on deeds and facts only. Gay people have never ever experienced this freedom before. Never before. The last 13 years, since Labour came to power, gay people have gained more respect than during all of the previous 2000 years. This is not the result of magic. This is the result of a more liberalised society, together with a party that has embraced equality policies. New Labour has achieved in 13 years, most of what they’ve promised to achieve for the gay community 13 yeras ago. This is a result of their policy set to achieve equality, since the very beginning. What is the Tory policy in this regard? Non existent. Now that we have achieved near equality, the Tories will simply sing the tune according to who they are singing it to. If the tune comes from the homophobic choir, they’ll be more than happy to sing along, as has been demonstrated time and again.
mmmm that must be why theres been a sharp rise in homophobic crime under a Labour government then?! It seems the longer Labour have been in power the worse Homophobic crime gets. That must be your “more respect” and “more liberalised society” for you.
OH WELL THERE U GO ANOTHER APOLOGETIC TORY – THAT’S OK THEN – HOW DECENT OF HIM TO RETRACT HIS ALREADY DAMAGING AND HATEFUL STATEMENT – THE INSIPID ARYAN LOOKING TW#T – OH I’M SORRY I DIDN’T MEAN TO GIVE THAT IMPRESSION OF MR GAYTHING … OOPS GRAYLING!
Blimey someones on the Gin again
He seemed fairly definitive to me……………..
Squidgy, sharp increase of homophobic crime runs paralel to the exposure of gay people in society. That’s a clue for you.
Bobbet, well said! Yes, the more Labour has allowed us to feel more confident in this society, the more it has made it safe for gay and lesbian professionals and others to come out of the closet and stand proudly in public . . . the more the backward-looking conservative (read “unoriginal”) great mass of homophobes in this country have hated it. And that is indeed the reason for the greater manifestation of homophobia in this country in recent years.
When kiddies are disciplined, when kiddies have to get used to something they don’t like, they always kick and scream. It’s exactly the same situation with those who are used to thinking of us as errant deviants, condemned by “The Holy Book”, who have (in their view) freely chosen to live a gay, lesbian, or transgender “lifestyle”. They just can’t get their tiny unoriginal frightened little brains round the fact that the scriptures are a pile of primitive nonsense and that we LGBTs are a product of nature and have always been so.
I wonder if the rise in the number of reported homophobic crimes in the 13 years of Labour rule has anything to do with the fact that under the Tories, there was ‘officially’ no such thing as a homophobic hate crime, that the category didn’t exist, and that people didn’t report assaults etc because not only would they not be heard, they’d probably find themselves in trouble ?
I don’t want to make light of the continuing problem of crimes against LGBT people and I think there’s still a long way to go, particularly for trans people whose situation seems often not to be understood or sympathised with, but I wonder if higher reporting is a product of being able to make the report. I’ll always remember that when my bf and I were attacked in my student days, the first thing the copper asked was our ages (under 21 = illegal then), at least that doesn’t happen now.
Well said DavidW, Bobbet and Eddy. Squiffy, please try to understand this point – homophobic crime is being reported, getting taken seriously and recorded. That’s where most of the increase is coming from.
What, Mr Grayling was the right “impression”?
Eddy: Would you consider a bunch of people sitting in a waiting room to get their teeth fixed a “Dental community”?
No. They just happen to want the same thing. That does not infer that they have anything else whatsoever in common.
Gays. Group. Similar. Precisely. Bullsh!t.
Come, come, RobN, you surely have more intelligence than what you have demonstrated above.
If a bunch of people sitting in a waiting room to get their teeth fixed talk with each other and assist each other with regard to their common dental problems then they would indeed be a “Dental Community”.
We LGBTs do not go along to dozens and dozens of groups up and down the length and breadth of this land and simply sit there, as you have suggested, in silence, with our mouths shut. We talk, discuss, debate, and formulate together with regard to the LGBT issues that concern us.
So, as I said before, it was absurd of you to suggest that our community is a myth, particularly when you YOURSELF are participating so avidly and regularly in discussion with other LGBTs in the PinkNews website community!
Are you one of those people who hates being part of a team, RobN? Do you play team-sports? Are you a good team-player? Are into cooperative activities? Do you believe in the cooperative society? Can you function well as part of a working group? Do others like you?
No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manner of thine own
Or of thine friend’s were.
Each man’s death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.
- John Donne (one of your finest English poets, from the 16th century).
Eddy: “In sociology, the concept of community has led to significant debate, and sociologists are yet to reach agreement on a definition of the term. There were ninety-four discrete definitions of the term by the mid-1950s.”
I see a community as a group of people that not only have a common cause or interest, but help one another to achieve each other’s goals for the common good. Frankly, I see none of that here. Everyone is in it for what he or she can get.
As for team player, I would have thought it was pretty obvious. I dislike people in general, and gay men in particular. I am, and always have been a lone wolf, and that is out of choice. I admit my lifestyle is unusual, but I am not a ‘people-person’. Your poet may claim “No man is an island”, and that is true, few can totally isolate themselves from society, however, using that analogy, I have very strict border controls, and rarely let anyone come ashore.
RobN says “Everyone is in it for what he or she can get”.
It seems RobN thinks he can read people’s minds – and even without being part of their communities and even KNOWING THEM!
Rob, do you realise that by behaving as you do you are what is known as a misanthrope?
Oxford English Dictiony:
A hater of mankind; a man-hater; one who distrusts men and avoids their society.
1683 D. A. Art Converse “A misanthrope in such a measure that can praise nothing that is praise worthy.”
1745 Swift On Death “Alas, poor Dean! his only Scope Was to be held a Misanthrope.”
When will gay Labour Councillor Paul Fairweather apologise for falsely stating in the Pink Paper that cruising is ‘unlawful’?
Which is worse: what Chris Grayling did. Or one of ‘our own’ who has been elected, and now chooses to falsely smear cruisers as law breakers? An ‘unpopular’ and vulnerable section of our communuity which has very little voice. And I’d suggest Fairweather did it for cynical of reasons: there are more votes in condemning cruising than sticking up for it.
Where are the protests about this issue?
GS: SO you would say hanging around in bushes at 2 in the morning for the sole purpose of obtaining sex, and then practicing it in a public place is not illegal?
RobN this is what GALOP says:
‘There is no law specifically prohibiting cruising, and sex in public places is not illegal as long as other people who might be offended cannot see you and are unaware that you are having sex.’
‘It is not against the law for people to loiter, engage in conversation or walk around a cruising ground with the purpose of meeting others. In other words, you can not be arrested simply for going cruising.’
This is their guide to your rights:
Can you imagine if straight men were told there was a part of the city centre where it was ‘unlawful’ for them to walk around and talk to any woman who was completely willing to chat to them? Can you imagine the fury? That is what we are talking about.
It is discrimination against gay men plain and simple and Councillor Fairweather, who is gay himself, told the Pink Paper that cruising is ‘unlawful’.
Whatever your personal view on cruising surely you must agree that a gay councillor doing this is a serious issue and wonder why? A mistake or some other motive? What is the difference with Chris Grayling who also seemed to misrepresent the legal situation on B&Bs?
This seems to be an example of how even some gay politicians are now selling certain parts of our community down the river (or should that be down the canal?) because it suits their purposes.
Homophobic tories will slowly erase our hard won half equalities, they will probably cement the apartheid, while bringing in new legislation to protect homophobic speech, there’ll be another lost decade or two for gays and lesbians, until the new generations grow slowly grow up and start pushing the old myths away.
Of the 15 stories appearing on the front page of Pink News, 12 are about the Tory Party.
Yet Pink News claims not to be biased.
How stupid do the editors and reporters regard us?