“We feel very clearly that gay voters are among those who have been ignored by Labour.” is that “spokesman” serious?!
Labour has many faults but I don’t think ignoring gay people is one of them.
A friend just sent this round-robin in reply to the Grayling story:”Things this Labour Government has done for us gay people since 1997:
- Repealed the evil Section 28 put in place by the Conservatives
- Introduced anti gay-bullying guidance for all schools
- Equalised the Age of Consent at 16
- Ended the ban on out-gays the military
- Introduced Civil Partnerships with massive success
- Anti-discrimination laws in housing, employment and the provision of goods and services
- Gay hate crimes illegal since last month
- Same sex couples can now adopt
- Gender Recognition Act gives change of gender rights to trans people
Ask yourself, how many of these laws would a Tory government have even introduced, let alone passed? “
unfortunately these “misspeaks” and the interview he did, and the “Grayling” moment suggest a lack of commitment; I would have expected a more professional performance and a more deft touch vis a vis gay (etc) issues since he knows it is a weak point for the Tories, and a touchstone for many LGBTQI(xyz) voters.
The pink news obsession with David Cameron is getting embarrassing.
It really doesn’t mind how many opportunities it puts up to make dishonest and largely irrelevant comments about him – Liebour are finished!
“Ended the ban on out-gays the military”
Only after the European Court of Human Rights told them they had to. The Labour Government defended the ban in the courts!
LOL this is hilarious. sharp tongues at the ready.
For anyone who has forgotton what it was like to be Gay under Conservative government, see this excellent article:
He walks onto the stage
Maybe PinkNews should have waited before predicting.
Of course he didn’t mention gay people.
His party remains a nasty, homophobic party after all.
He would not have gotten away with including reference to gay people in his speech.
Considering that in a Tory government the Shadow Home Secretary has stated that he believes that the owners of commercial businesses be allowed to discriminate againt gay people (but NOT black people, muslims etc) it would be a barefaced lie for Cameron to pretend that he gives a toss about the gay population.
Over the last few weeks, it has become crystal clear that Cameron’s kind words about the gay population asre barefaced lies.
The Tories remain the nasty, homophobes they always have been.
A vote for the Tories is a vote for homophobia.
Lets face it the man will never do any right so don’t know why he bothers to try.
Are you Dacre in disguise?
‘According to the published version of the speech, he was due to say: “We’re fighting this election for the Great Ignored – young, old, rich, poor, black, white, gay, straight.”‘
This is what the Tory party released as to be said to get it in the news: why he didn’t actually say it is a matter for conjecture.
By the way – some weeks ago Pink News asked for questions from its readers that it was going to ask to David Cameron.
Cameron had agreed to an interview.
Has Cameron backed out of that interview?
Did the exposure in the Gay Times interview put him off speaking to the gay pres, as his hypocritical lies and homophobia were exposed?
Cameron is a vile, piece of scum who pretends to be all inclusive, yet disgusting bigotry such as that supported by Grayling, and Duncan SMith is tolerated and welcomed.
Broomsticks and abracadabra indeed !! wow!
That may be true (it may not) Simon but in truth a vote for Labour is a vote for economic disaster.
Same old Tories.
To quote PinkNews on yesterdays news item:-
“Mr Cameron is expected to answer questions submitted by PinkNews.co.uk readers over the coming days.”
Bloody ‘ell. The man forgets to say “gay”, whoopie, big deal. Send in the lynch mob. It proves nothing. I’m going to need a lot more than some non-quote. I’m looking at all parties to decided and quite frankly this is far from a ‘stringing up’ offence.
Ya nothing but drama queens.
Mumbo Dumbo – why are you obsessed with everything I say – I hear having a stalker is very fashionable nowadays but really I’d rather you didn’t.
Your constant copy and pasting of the same ol message is somewhat meaningless surely when your clearly appealing to the people who have already decided not to vote Tory.
A Tory government would have introduced most of the same reforms for gay rights as Labour since 1997. Labour didn’t want to introduce many of them, but were forced into it by the European Court of Human Rights. Don’t forget that Labour fought in the ECHR to keep the ban on gays in the military, and now hail it as something that they supported!
Ditto the Gender Recognition Act, because they knew the EHCR would come down upon them if they didn’t, and introducing reforms that had been Lib Dem party policy for a decade.
Now, in terms of voting record Labour I’ll admit have much better than the Tories on LGBT equality. But let’s not let them take credit for things that weren’t their idea and they didn’t want to do.
Was this omission any wonder given their B&B plan: http://moneymad.org/bb_plan.jpg ?
Discrimination still exists in B&Bs today.
Obviously it’ll get worse if Von Grayling becomes Heer Flick.
Make sure your closets are free from clutter. Jonathan
Funny, he says “We’re fighting this election for the Great Ignored” … and then ignores the gay community?!?!?
“Discrimination still exists in B&Bs today.”
So why aren’t Labour sorting it out? Why is the Tories gettin it in the neck when Labour themselves stand by and do Nothing?
Gay people are not interested in honey glaze offered by PR man Cameron. Well those voting for conservatives, after Graylin gaffe, are clearly not interested in more rights for LGBT people. With prospect of hung parliament LGBT VOTE will realy count, dont waste it, go out and vote.
As some people have claimed above obviously as a homosexual tory party member I am one of the most homophobic people around. Amusing that many of you instead of congratulating us on moving forward you attack every little thing that you could “claim” is anti-gay.
You should be celebrating the fact that all of the political parties are now inclusive and welcoming to the gay community instead of being hateful and spiteful that the Tories still don’t hate us.
David Cameron is the only party leader that doesn’t use notes, when you don’t use notes there is a risk you might miss pieces out of your speech its one of the risks, he missed out several chunks of it most likely due to the excitement of the day, shame on pinknews for trying to claim theres some other motive.
Jack, nobody is saying you are homophobic, but the party you are in, IS. If you read the other posts on here it is clear, by voting record alone, that the Tory part does NOT support Gay rights. I, as a Gay man, cannot vote in a way in which might well put the whole Gay community at risk from discrimination. The Tory part has a truly shocking record, and a previous history of taking away rights for the Gay community. I think, personally, that it is wrong for Gay people to vote for a party which might put our whole community at risk. I would ask you to reconsider.
@Jack Doyle – For him to miss out the gay community so shortly after Mr Grayling’s comments this weekend is a serious slip up … especially when it was in the draft. Sorry, this was a missed opportunity to win back my vote (others … please don’t flame me ’cause I was consider voting Conservative … I took an aspirin and the feeling past)
#20..glasshouses,bricks.pots and pans come to mind……are you not doing exactly the same ..preaching to the FEW idiots who say they are voting for the homophobic racist Tories…..??????????
Squidgy’s sole reason for voting Tory is ‘They are not Labour’
I’ve never seen him list a single reason why someone should vote Tory aside from the fact that they are not Labour.
I suspect that if those lying, homophobes from the Tory Party had been in power over the last decade, then the economic situation would be just as bad as it is now.
And we would still be living in a society where LGBT equality is even further from reality than it is at present.
I suspect that the snake-oil salesman ‘Callmedave’ Cameron will back out of his interview with Pink News.
If he is not willing to sack the revolting homophobe Chris Grayling (I mean think about this vile, piece of s*** Chris Grayling – as Home Secretary he supports the principle that the owners of a commercial business be allowed to discriminate against gay customers – that is horrifying).
Meanwhile the ‘Gay Uncle Toms’ of LGBTory have not uttered a word about Grayling’s poisonous bigotry.
They are obviously not allowed to mention it.
No 31: Eddy: you say:
1. The Tories are in an alliance in Europe with the far-right, homophobic Law and Justice Party.
2. Under a Tory government the Home Secretary would support the right of commercial businesses to discriminate against gay people.
3. Under a Tory government Iain Duncan Smith would be in charge of families. He wants to reduce the rights of non-biological gay parents.
4. The Tories in Europe are vile homophobes. And David Cameron has admitted he does not control them.
5. The Tories record on voting for gay issues is utterly abysmal.
6. The Tories want to massively increase spending on ‘faith schools’.
7. The Tories support the religious exemption from equality laws (have a look at number 6 again)
8. The Tories are opposed to legal equality for gay relationships.
The Tories are a homophobic party despite their spin pretending they are not the reactionary bigots they have always been.
(respects to original poster.)”
That original poster would be me.
And all those questions remain unanswered by the Tories.
And not even the idiots in LGBTory can answer them.
A vote for the Tories is a vote for homophobia
yes, sally, i’ve noticed too. it’s like they think that keep shoving him at us whether the reports on him are positive or negative and we will all be brainwashed into thinking he’s the only alternative
when did they last post a picture of Nick Clegg or any of the leaders of the other contenders?
LOL… basically he ignored LGBT people in his list of “Great Ignored”.
I suppose when it comes to being ignored, it doesn’t get much greater than that.
Cameron has said gay rights should be taught in schools. Cameron in a speech said u.s military should do away with don’t ask don’t tell. Cameron is offering gay couples tax credits. The shadow justice secretary who is in charge of the laws said there would be no discrimination of gays at B&B’s. Grayling even before this was never going to be in the cabinet. The hundreds of new tory candidates are diverse, modern, and very socially liberal. There are projected to be 20 gay tory mp’s more than any other party in the next parliament.
keep repeating that outdated tory nasty party line because when Cameron is PM and you see the new tory candidates as MP’s you will see how outdated that attack is.
Cameron is a modern socially liberal leader.
He personally made sure the candidates were socially liberal. This outdated nasty party line is a smear and Cameron will be the most gay rights friendly PM ever.
I think most of the media has been very forgiving of David Cameron – I truly hope this will now stop. He’s an actor, a very good one – but I see no agenda driving him into politics other than the desire for power. No wish to improve peoples lives etc, just the desire to be in charge.
Yes, Julian, and a lot of very racist and xenophobic people are plumping for Cameron just because he’s the English one, and Gordon is Scottish.
Jason: you say: “Cameron has said gay rights should be taught in schools.”
But Cameron also supports the religious opt out from equality laws.
And he wants to massively increase funding for ‘faith schools’ (which have the religious opt out from equality laws.
In THEORY he is supportive of gay rights.
In PRACTISE he wants to make it easier for homophobia to be present in schools.
And he has not sacked or condemned Chris Grayling.
His refusal to condemn Chris Grayling’s disgusting homophobia is because it is official Tory policy that owners of commercial businesses be allowed to discriminate against gay people.
The Tories remain the homophobic scum they always have been.
Wrong, Simon the tories all voted for no discrimination in B@B’s. To say it is official tory policy is just a lie. The shadow justice secretary who makes the laws said even before grayling’s remarks that there would be no change in the law for B@B’s. Please stop with the lies.
Sal……the reason callmedaves ugly airbrushed mug is constantly on the front page of Pink News is that its his party who keep making the homophobic gaffes. Im sure that if Brown or Clegg were to turn out to be as homophobic as the law and justice tory leader then we would also see their faces “rammed” at us every few hours.
You new here then…..just been sent out from tory central to replace some of the other tory trolls we seen through and seen off, have you??? Make no mistake pet we will see through you to as we have squiffy, vulvus-reeks ,theron and all the other trolls hiding behind pseudonyms or are you AngieSR reborn???
Hi Jason, (from yesterday)
Jason said “Cameraon will give tax credits to gay couples”. No he won’t. In fact now, it appears now that, having realised how much this will cost, he’s saying only to couples with kids under 3 years old.
Jason said “no control over how european mep’s vote”. Rubbish. He took them away from the centre-right EPP to the extreme right Polish Law and Justice Party (look them up on wiki). He doens’t like Europe – but Ken Clarke does. We need Europe – we are an extended family.
Jason said “What has the great gordon brown done for gays”. Repealed Section 28, Equality Bill, Civil Partnerships, reduction in age of consent in line with hetrosexuals, equality in fertility treatment for Lesbians, equality in adoption….
Jason said “cameron has pushed for the u.s to stop the don’t ask don’t tell”. Rubbish. Obama is doing that – it was part of his election manifesto. Or are you saying that Dave helped him win the U.S. election ???
Just to remind you. Because, really, you should only put fact on here, not fantasy. CCHQ spokes people are always welcome here, but they must not lie and spin.
Cameron failed to asure LGBT community, that he will not change existing legislations dealing with equality laws and he also faild to come up with any concretes that would better gay rights, so far only ‘should this’, ‘should that’, im afraid ‘should’ will not do
With prospect of hung parliament LGBT VOTE will realy count, dont waste it, go out and vote.
No. Equality act “Preventing people from being discriminated against because they’re gay.” Is that the one?
Tory: 26% Labour: 97% LibDems: 96%
It’s pretty obvious that the Tories HAVE changed. They have openly gay MPs and candidates in the election. The only question is the extent of the change so far. I’m disappointed that Cameron missed out those words. Was it because he was speaking without a script or a tactical move to avoid offending the ‘old guard’?
If the former, then he should make amends by mentioning us in an equally high-profile speech. A few words in some backwater on the election trail just won’t do. Obama managed it in his victory speech.
As usual above you can see the desperate left-wingers who can’t accept that things have moved on since the 1980′s and who are doing everything they can to cram the LGBT vote back into the ‘default’ Labour box.
@46. You know that I won’t vote Tory. However, you are voting for your local MPs, their numbers make up seats, and the number of seats obviously determines the Goverment’s make-up. So, check your local voting records. You could (repeat could, not should) vote tactically to keep the Tory party where they belong. This tactic might help make up for the seats bought with Ashcroft millions.
You just cannot repeat it often enough.
Right on: a vote for Tories is a vote for homophobia.
Excuse me for saying it but there are more pics of Dave Cameron on here than a tory poster Campaign!!!!!
I have Never told anyone how to vote. I have expressed MY opinion nothing more. Surely this is what this site is about. If you don’t like that and want to make it more than it is well tough basically. I am entitled just like you.
Unlike you I do NOT tell people ethey can or cannot vote for someone.
Oh and patrick the word are mine NOT copy and pasted!
Correction 1) I said I have to vote Tory because I cannot stand the thought of another 5 disasterous years of Labour.
Correction 2) I have already stated that now the campaign starts All parties are going to have to earn my vote whoever it may be.
I have never listed a reason why other people should vote Tory because it’s not down to me how other people feel and how they should vote. I have already stated MANY, Many times I have always voted Lib Dem, for the past 20 years. However this time I cannot vote knowing there is a chance Labour could remain and destroy this country. That I my view, I am entitled to express it, I am entitled to it.
For the weeks left to the Election who knows my opinion may change. I may vote Lib Dem, Green, Whoever but that is my decision to make Not yours.
My am entitled my my view without abuse just because I may vote differently. It is my choice and My vote.
Leaked speech turns out to be wrong?
Perhaps you need better sources Pink News. You really are becoming obsessed.
What worries me is if some of these nasty queens throw abuse at the Tory website its going to make us all look bad and who can blame anyone looking at abuse and saying “Why bother?”
It’s these screamers that will do gay rights and justice the most harm.
We want people to listen to us but they’re aren’t if it’s nasty and abusive. Think of you actions and how they effect everyone else within the gay community.
#43 NO need Jason just follow this link and read all about Callmedaves friends in Europe…………..
“In PRACTISE he wants to make it easier for homophobia to be present in schools.”
It is LABOUR who brought this Amendment in not the Tories.
The Tories have promised this week (I think) to reveal what the tax breaks for marriage & civil partnerships will be. That is what I’m mostly waiting for to see how they fair. If they don’t then I WON’T be (Bet that gets ignored!)voting for them.
I’m old enough (ahem, just enough) to remember what the UK was like before we became more of an equal society once Blair was elected, it was f***ing terrible! To be gay was to be a deviant, to be against the norm, only big cities and Brighton werewelcoming. The Tory old guard still run the backroom, callmedave is their fancy front of house, the party will show its true colours and if we let them in it will be our fault.
Perhaps “town and country” is the new Tory euphemism for bi-sexual, a bit like “half chips and half rice”…
Wow Patrick how about a bit of respect for peoples’ work? You have just copied and pasted 4,500 words. An entire article. What’s wrong with linking? Not only is it theft but you are putting Pink News in a dodgy position legally given that Murdoch is so touchy about having content from his papers even quoted as a small extract.
“It is LABOUR who brought this Amendment in not the Tories. ”
Indeed it is.
However it is Tory policy (but not Labour policy) to massively increase funding to homophobic ‘faith schools’
The religious opt out is disgusting. It is Labour’s idea. But the Tories have a far more sinister, homophobic intention for it.
Then again they are Tories so they are instinctively homophobic.
Has that irrelevant waste of space – the LGBTory Group – issued a comment on the vile bigotry of Chris Grayling yet?
Seems like grayling got away with it
Patrick @41, are you stupid or so crazed that you can’t read!!!!!
How can you possibly accuse me of being a Tory spy when in my post I accused Pink News of backing the Tories! Did I not say that it is odd that over and over again Pink News keeps publishing Cameron’s face and reporting everything about the Tories, whether it’s negative or positive, but in comparison there is relatively NOTHING about the Libs or Labour and we never get photos of Gordon Brown or Nick Clegg or any other leader.
Say you’re sorry, you silly silly naughty little boy!
Take a tranquilliser and calm down and READ what people write!
dean, im sure it will pop out during elections, just to underline Cons on and off camera mentality
Labour have ignored us, the Conservatives won’t? You couldn’t make it up.
No doubt, Callmedave’s omission was unintentional, but Freud might have something to sayabout this latest slip.
@64: Nothing of the sort. They’ve just pledged to repeal anti-Gay discrimination. See this article. Just saw it pop up on Twitter.
Hmmmm, so David is committed to equality? Now, lets see if he’s really committed by supporting civil marriage equality for starters once elected. NOT!
Shouldn’t the headline of this article read “Pink New gets it wrong”?
You appearto have generated a story from (wrongly) predicting the contents of a speech, and then correcting yourself.
Section 28 set gay equality back decades. Vote Tory and the same thing will happen again. Dont trust them – I dont!
@67: Colm, you’re wrong.
CCHQ released the text of the speech. They, or Cameron, decided to leave out the ‘Gay, Straight’ reference. For what reason – nobody seems to know. Your very welcome. Jonathan
it seems that the lgtbtory site admin have forgotten to post the grayling opinion soon to be policy. the choose. to ignore what the country has been discussing as it dosent suit their agenda, the spineless cowards they are in denial
It’s your arguement that is pushing me to think Tory because even when LABOUR make these Amendments somehow it still falls on the Tories as if they are sole responsible.
So the Tories want more Faith schools, That was already known.ITs LABOUR who have brought in an Amendment that’ll allow homophobia. Regardless of who wants what in the future. This Amendment is Now! The Tories haven’t been in power for 13 years they may or may not in a few weeks but stop passing the buck onto what the Tories are doing when IT’s LABOUR themselves that have created the situation in the first place. Wasn’t it already known about the faith schools anyway, or are we now saying the amendment was only brought in to please the tory.
Your arguements of blame for a party that hasn’t been in power for 13 years as so flawed when you seem to make excuses for Labour but not the nasty Tories.
It’s never going to be easy if a party with a reputation tries to change with all shouting it down at every corner. Labour must had done it to get back into office after 18 years.
It’s this nasty Labour attitude that we need to rid of. People can’t just be nice to one another.
On another note, we have had a Tory Major for 2 years which hasn’t been the disaster everyone thought it was going to be. He’s still having to clear up Livingstone’s mess but we haven’t got it bad. He’s actually doing rather well and deffo gets my vote if hopefully he stands again.
Sally:- Welcome :)
I’m afraid you’ll get that from the likes of Patrick/Eddy. They don’t Actually read threads they just pick out words and find things to bully you back with if they don’t like it.
Hey! Maybe he’s not homophobic, but just forgetful and as his brain’s damaged he forgot chunks of his pre-written speech on account of all that shxx he took up his orifaeces as an Eton schoolboy?
OMG, I’m so thick. Cameron didn’t fluff his lines at all.
He didn’t include us because we’re not part of the ‘Great Ignored’ !
Labour have (shamelessly nicked from @1,’ta zefrog):
- Repealed the evil Section 28 put in place by the Conservatives
- Introduced anti gay-bullying guidance for all schools
- Equalised the Age of Consent at 16
- Ended the ban on out-gays the military
- Introduced Civil Partnerships with massive success
- Anti-discrimination laws in housing, employment and the provision of goods and services
- Gay hate crimes illegal since last month
- Same sex couples can now adopt
- Gender Recognition Act gives change of gender rights to trans people
and now @65
They’ve just pledged to repeal anti-Gay discrimination.
Labour haven’t ignored us.
I’m befuzzled by people who dismiss Cameron’s omission with the wave of a hand, blaming it on the fact that he wasn’t reading from a script. Are you people even listening to what you’re saying. Do you not see a problem with the fact that he has now, on more than one occasion, completely dropped the ball as far as the gay community is concerned when speaking “off script”? It’s what people say when they are off script that you should MOST pay attention to. Parties stick to the script during election cycles for a reason. The problem is, they don’t have to RULE from the script once elected; they rule from their conscience, from their true opinion and with their own biases. THAT is what scares me about Cameron’s disastrous interview failure when asked about the MEP’s refusal to vote to condemn Lithuania. It also offends me that he then tried to plug the damn by claiming that it’s the Tory’s viewpoint that they shouldn’t get involved in the affairs of sovereign nations? LIE! There are COUNTLESS examples of Tory MEP’s voting to support or condemn the laws or policies of sovereign nations in Europe and elsewhere.
And for those who blame Labor for the financial crisis, don’t. The source of the world financial crisis was the USA and their irresponsible financial policies imposed by the American TORY Party (Republicans).
If Cameron wants to REALLY show that his party has changed and that his gaffes should not be of concern to the LGBT community then he needs to up the ante. He needs to show that the Tories are willing to go one step further than Labour to offer TRUE equality to gay people. He could do that easily with one knock out punch. Simply announce that his party will give gay and straight couples equal access to civil marriage and civil partnerships. Of course he better have a script with him or he’ll probably forget to mention the gay part.
And one more thing. To those who are claiming that PinkNews printed a fraudulent document and that the speech that they are claiming was released never happened, please explain then why Cameron’s own spokesman has released a statement apologizing for the omission claiming (of course) that it was an innocent oversight and saying that he would mention the gays in later speeches?
I read that in the Guardian, not on PinkNews.
@jonathan, I have been getting to the same conclusion as the day went on. We haven’t been ignored by Labour, no but the Tories are only too willing to forget about us (at best).
Years ago I worked in the BBC. This was in the early 90s. I was working as a journalist in current affairs related programmes.
We used to get these letters from people who would write very often in capitals. We used to call these “green pen” letters. This was because I think someone had said that they were often written with a green pen, but I never saw one that actually was. I think thought of it was rather fun which was why we called them that.
The content of the letters was pretty mad and full of unreasoning anger and hatred.
I mention them now because the postings of vulpus_rex, Squidgy, Ron_N remind me of those letters.
When reading those letters I always felt sorry for the authors. Even though the letters were full of racism or homophobia or some other mental bile, I always thought to myself, how terrible to be like the authors, so full of negativity.
#77 DUP…isnt that Iris “ill make you straight” Robinsons party from Ireland??
I’m befuzzled by people who dismiss Cameron’s omission with the wave of a hand, blaming it on the fact that he wasn’t reading from a script.
Yes Zeke for me this is a good point.
David Cameron spent his Easter hiding from making any comments about Chris Grayling.
There is absolutely no way that the LGBT issue was far from his mind.
I think the truth is that Chris Grayling’s pro-discrimination statement will have had great support within the Conservative party.
David Cameron is much more worried about alienating the anti-LGBT rights lobby in the Conservative party than he is about alienating small group of LGBT Conservative supporters.
So, in his speech he sent out a message to the anti-LGBT rights people.
Isn’t it funny how the ‘Great Ignored’ are only the ‘Great Ignored’ until they bump a public figure off?
This is about the total lack of Tory policy on LGBT issues. Vote Tory if you like but know what it means: we have only ever got Section 28, hatred or mealy mouthed words and no action from the Conservative Party. Cameron says there will be no laws to protect LGBT people under a Tory Government yet he and many of his shadow cabinet and party have fought against all equalities legislation, especially on LGBT rights. Shameful: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-no-new-gay-rights-under-the-tories-1889014.html
It cannot be denied that the Labour Party in government has consistently progressed LGBT rights. Here is a list for the rapid cynics and Tories on here:
• achieved an equal age of consent;
• ended the ban on LGBT people serving in our armed forces;
• ended discrimination against same sex partners for immigration purposes;
• given LGBT individuals and couples the right to adopt children;
• scrapped the homophobic Section 28 (Clause 2a in Scotland);
• become a signatory of the Treaty of Amsterdam, which gave the EU powers to end discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation;
• banned discrimination in the workplace and in vocational training with the introduction of the Employment Equality (Sexual Orientation) Regulations;
• created the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) which gives LGBT people statutory body protection;
• included homophobia in the definition of hate crimes;
• increased sentencing for homophobic hate crimes;
• removed outdated offences such as gross indecency and buggery;
• produced and implemented the Gender Recognition Act, allowing Trans people to have their true gender recognised in law;
• created the Civil Partnerships, allowing LGB people to have their loving relationships recognised by law and have the same benefits as married couples;
• outlawed discrimination in good and services (with no exceptions);
• launched a campaign in the UN for the Decriminalisation of Homosexuality focusing on the nine countries where it is still punishable by death;
• awarded statutory rights for fertility treatment for Lesbians on the NHS.
it’s seems that camerons omission is a nod of agreement to graylings comment. his popularity has gone up with the bigots and self haters maybe he realised he doesn’t need us. what a shame!
@83: On the contrary, this is fantastic news. We now have a clear decision, Labour or LibDems (just a note, UKIP now embroiled in scandle over election donations, and linked to BNP).
If there are 65m people, and 50m voters, and 10% are gay, that’s 5m votes. If you take the poll in this paper, that could be 80% split between Labour and LibDems (assuming 20% still vote Tory).
I found this link it’s a taste of how things were before labour. police in cottages entrapping men some guys took their lives it wasn’t a very nice time.
I think the biggest problem is people not voting. They are so fed up with how politics has been over the last 18 months they have understandable switched off.
If you truely want Labour (not you personally) in you have the biggest problem. Thats because it’s key Labour supporters that will just not vote. They won’t vote Tory so will not vote at all. Some sadly will cross the BNP box.
A small part of me thinks the parties know this and it could work in there favour however if a large number of traditional Labour supporters don’t vote as expected then it leave the way open for the Tories to slide into No. 10.
I expect we’re going to have one of two situations:-
Either people are so fed up with Labour the voter turn-out will be slightly higher, Or, voter turn-out will be the lowest on record. The lowest turn-out Could be the biggest problem as it is the most likely way the Tories will win.
Labour has to work Very hard to convince it’s own more than anything, it’s them they have to rely on.
Oh Oh the praying has started again…….Skinner really is a closet job…Comes here to spout homophobic rubbish after he’s been to the local cottage….methinks its guilt or perhaps anger after yet another knockback frpm the local cottage queen…….
Did he not miss out ‘straights’ also in the live speech.
It as quite clearly there in the draft:
“We’re fighting this election for the Great Ignored – young, old, rich, poor, black, white, gay, straight.”
Are we all going to read something into that I wonder?
@86 David. Your comments are highly offensive and hateful. I am deeply offended by them and you should consider carefully if you are in need of mental health services, or counselling. I feel deeply sorry for you.
why would anyone debate this story – the tories are and always have been homophobic. fullstop.
what’s more interesting is, why does david skinner come on here to blog? david, i know you’ll check back and read this….is it because it makes you hard reading what all us ‘gays’ have written? do you imagine what we look like? who is your favourite? who do you fantasise about the most? simonM, squidgy, vulpus rex, robn, or me, the mysterious J. i’m sure you know, but just in case you don’t – you’re a complete bible bashing weirdo. a total freak. probably a repressed homo. you always go on about that crap book of fiction that was written 2000 years ago called the bible, as if it were a factual document. you blind fool. which would be like someone reciting harry potter in 2000 years to try and prove a point. it’s quite pathetic.
The deafening silence from Cameron on the subject of Chris Grayling should be read as evidence that if the Tories get elected, then they will support the ‘right’ of a commercial business to deny goods or services, specificially to gay people.
It is quite simply unacceptable for Grayling to state that he supports breaking the law when it comes to equality for LGBT people and then for that snake-oil salesman ‘Callmedave’ Cameron to pretend it didn’t happen.
If the Tories are elected it will be a dark day for LGBT rights in the UK.
The always have been, and they remain, homophobic scum.
The LGBTory group in their infinite irrelevance have of course not bothered to comment. They must have been instructed to keep quiet.
where’d david’s comment go?
Yet another one who feels the need to copy and paste the same ol message.
#86 can Pink News not do something about this deeply offensive persons constant posts, which are clearly couched in terms that he knows will cause the utmost offence and pain. It must be realised that there are some gay people who are in constant turmoil between ther sexual orientation and the faith they indoctrinated into as children.
So David Skinner is associated with CCFON and against, very against, gay rights. So why is he posting here? Isn’t that harassment?
jonathon if skinner comes back just tell him to fcuk off.
How much more evidence do you STUPID Gay Tories need ? This will be the tone of the conservatives mandate. Back to the old days. Gays will be simply ignored. Homophobes, in the guise of religion, will be granted precedence and mandate over you.
Zeke, No.74, I so agree with you. Even if Cameron is elected, he’s not going to support full civil marriage equality and c.p’s for straight couples. He’s not that progressive, neither is Labour for that matter. Neither believe in FULL equality just like some of their apologists here, but instead support legal segregation under a different name, an exercise in regression to mollify religious bigots. To me its nothing more than sheer cowardice, no backbone.
You all will get used to abuse once again, and better off going to self-defence classes, because the system will ignore your complaints. Gay Tories will be probably remembered within the gay community, from now on, for simply selling their brothers and sisters out for a very few token seats and a monthly salary, to keep quiet.
What would be nice is if Labour actually answered questions properly without slagging off the opposition. It’s not what people want to hear. they want to hear answers, not slagging off and excuses.
Bobbet:- back with your scaremongering again… LOL
Can someone tell me, Is this going to be the last Ever general Election?
coz I don’t think so but maybe there something I haven’t heard. So a vote other than Labour to get this countries economy sorted surely is going to take a lot of time. Our rights won’t vanish, they may not increase, sure but don’t see the point in gettin all paranoid and frenzied when there will be another election in 4/5 years time.
Scaremongering indeed. Do you realise that for some of us there won’t be 4/5 years left of life? Of course you don’t. You’re simply minding your own little fantasy world. For the good of the great german nation’s economy, what is the value of a few Jewish lives?
Oh look he just mentioned us in Leeds! Are you all happy now? He made a mistake he also missed out young and old this morning, does that mean he hates children and OAP’s ?
So, all of the electioneering has finally started. I will watch with interest this election period, and also the result. Whatever the outcome, whoever is the ´winner´, I only hope it is the gay community…. Though I fear that sadly it won´t be.
My fear is that our overriding preoccupation with a few more quid in our pockets, a flashier car, a cheaper mortgage (though I´m not sure that ANY party can deliver on those, whatever they promise), will cause us to turn a blind eye to the hard-won equalities we have, and the large amount there is still to do.
A lot of voters will either have very limited memories of what it WAS like to be a gay man or lesbian in Britain years ago, or will be too young to remember.
To most of us, and especially the younger generation of gay and lesbians, gay rights are exactly that, RIGHTS. But a lot of us can remember when they did not exist, and for many heterosexual homophobes, the ´equal´ rights that we do enjoy today are merely a ´bridge too far´.
For many, (just read some of the other website forums), we should in NO WAY ever be considered ´equal´. They would quite happily seek to change what we have already achieved, and push us back into the closet.
Whatever the outcome of this election, I only hope that the younger generation NEVER gets to see, hear, feel and experience some of the HATE and discrimination that sadly, so many of us can remember.
I would ´pray´ for you all, but as I do not believe in mystical sky-pilots, I can only wish you well and keep my fingers crossed for my fellow countrymen and women.
My thoughts will be with you from Brazil..
I dont think we will have Skinners vile hectoring inflicted on us anymore guys,.Pink News editorial staff seems to have woken up at last. I notice several contentious posts have disappeared from this thread. Take note squdgy, vulva-reeks et al.
Bobbet – gay Tories have already sold us out. they commercialised the gay community and by doing this the gay community is less inclusive, right wing and money focused. I mean bareback porn because it makes money how sad is that. people like squidgy are probally more common than we’d like to think.
Dean, probably you’re right. :(
Squidgy @71, I don’t welcome your “Welcome, Sally!” thank you very much. I have been watching your idiotic posts for weeks and it’s clear you some miserable self-hating person who simply loves swimming against the tide. Well, in this case Squidgy you’re a fool for refusing to acknowledge that the Tories have betrayed themselves as having only a skin-deep lip-serviced “respect” for gays and we lesbians! To me you seem to completely lack a sense of responsibility. So thank you for your “Welcome, Sally” but I don’t it your welcome, Squidgy. The majority on these threads have got it right. You’ve got it all wrong.
Comment #78 by Patrick James
vulpus_rex et al have no idea how they come across.
Like Richard Littlejohn, they actually think they are hilarious, original, important, serious people with serious views that need to be taken seriously.
Like your “green inkers”, they simply cannot understand how thick the rest of us are for not seeing things with the same brilliant insight as they do.
To them, everyone else is, as vulpus-rex put it so memorably, “economicly illiterate” (sic) – it’s the only funny thing he’s ever written and he didn’t mean it.
As the “great” Mail “journalist” and gay-hating Conservative supporter himself would say “you couldn’t make it up”.
I think the tories have been reading pink news, realised there is no hope of getting gay people to vote for them (except for a few retards who would vote for them even if they legalised execution for gay people). They blanked us so they can get the christian and other homophobes vote. When the tories get in, and they probably will, we should all move to where we are treated equally and where gay people have some power over how they want to live – oh wait a minute – there isn’t a place on earth like that.
Jay what rubbish. LGBT people voted Conservative in the 1980′s – in fact my boyfriend at the time did – so they sure as hell will now.
Gay issues aren’t the number one priority for everyone, hard though that will be for some to swallow. There is transport, the economy, wars, id cards and other civil liberties and much more.
gs – did you vote tory too?
“Jewish issues aren’t the number one priority for everyone.” This phrase could’ve been written by a Jewish person in 1932. I wouldn’t be surprised if these people were also deeply nationalists. Some are just unaware of how history repeats itself, and are living in a bubble of comfort.
What’s left for the people who, because of their sexuality, are living on the streets, prostituting or begging? Not even their dignity. David Cameron will pay his PRs to burp for them, too.
All of you who are truly gay PLEASE listen up.
The ONLY political party who has CONSITANTLY supported gay rights is the LIBDEMS. Their support of gay rights goes way back to the 1960s and the then Liberal Party. Admittedly the Labour Party has attempted to do something about this BUT the Conservative Party NEVER has and in spite of all the spin from ‘CallMeDave‘, surely it is evident that what they SAY and what they actually DO are totally different.
Yes, I fully understand why some people say that they want change but the ‘change’ to the Conservative Party would be disastrous for us gays at this point in time. ‘CallMeDave’ might be forweard thinking and there may be a few new Conservative candidates who are pro gay rights but a great many of the present Conservative Party backbenchers think we are ‘filthy perverts’. and that’s not just my view, that is what Lynne Featherstone MP said on her Blog happened when she was speaking about gay rights in the chamber of the House Of Commons. That is what they shouted out….. ‘filthy perverts’.
Maybe, in time, the Conservative Party as a whole may come around to promoting gay rights but they are not capable of doing it in this election.
No Dean I’ve never voted Tory or Labour. I’m a LibDem.
Bobbet it’s quite insulting to compare the situation for LGBT people in the UK today with that of Jews in 1930′s Germany. Please get real. One of the reasons I wouldn’t vote Labour is the Iraq war which has made that country probably the worst place on earth for LGBT people. Maybe we should stop thinking of ourselves for a minute eh?
I’ve been out since 1982. Much of what has happened under Labour has made life worse for us. As a gay man I have been verbally abused and threatened on the street more in the last five years than in the previous 23. Equality laws and political correctness have destroyed the gay scene and combined with the binge drinking have ensured there are no safe spaces anymore. We now have a narrow little pink pound lifestyle that suits rich 18-30 year old males and if you don’t fit into that then tough luck. Some progress…
Are you talking about pre or post-war Germany? Antisemitism was present in pre-war Germany but the Jewish communities were still able to live their lives. Their segregation grew slowly, bit by bit, year by year, and culminated with their persecution during the war years.
Also Dean this may come as news but the Police are still harrassing gay men who go cruising. The difference is that local councils and gay charities, which years ago would have stuck up for our community, now are on board with the ‘crack down’ and are eager to ingratiate themselves with the police.
For some men who aren’t on the scene, and who meet other guys in public spots, life is worse than it was 15 years ago. One man of about 60 who wrote to me to say that meeting for a chat is the only contact he has with other gay or bi men. He couldn’t remember the last time anything sexual happened but, nevertheless, the police were harrassing him, threatening on the spot fines and letters to his home address just for sitting drinking tea in the car and TALKING with other men in a public car-park.
This is life away from the pink pound.
I keep getting people telling me what a knob I am for putting Gay Rights towards the top of my reasons for voting, afterall, it’s the economy stupid, and transport, immigration, etc. This is interesting (well, I think).
“The various politicians, bureaucrats and businesspeople disagreed about many subjects. But on one thing they were firm. The election of a Conservative government in Britain would be a disaster.”
GS, you must be kidding. Life is infinitely better than before for gay people, because of a combination of mature political correctness, and the liberalisation of public policy during the Labour years. In the past you’d be just the stuff of science fiction, a guinea pig, treated as an aberration and sent to a far away laboratory for research purposes, or worse still, sent for ‘rehab’.
Bobbet what age are you? I’m 48 and the New Labour period has been the scariest I’ve ever known. Certainly the most authoritarian: CCTV on every street, ID cards, war on terror and over-reaction to every incident which has increased hatred towards Muslims, the paedophile hysteria that has destroyed childhood, body scans at airports and personal data handed over to the Americans, coming soon: real-time vehicle numberplate recognition.
And people have the nerve to imply that we have anything to fear from David Cameron!
“vulpus_rex et al have no idea how they come across”
Get over yourself. I know very well how I come across and if it involves annoying self-righteous, hectoring wind bags like you then all the better.
Try actually having an opinion instead of posting smug, ad-hominen cr*p aimed at sucking up to the the tiny fraction of fellow posters who aren’t gearing up to vote out the most rotten parliament ever.
GS, I’m 46. CCTV, ID cards, the war on terror, the internet, etc are present worldwide. You are blaming Labour for everything which has happened to modern society in the last few years. Those are things that no party has much power over. What the perties have power over are the political discourse, and political decisions. What is wrong with investigating every incident reported to the police? Do you prefer the victims to remain silent?
:120 GS, I’m in agreement on some of this. We have seen great advanced in Gay rights under Labour, but there is too much CCTV on the streets. To be honest I would think it would make criminals think twice, but it seems it doesn’t make a hugh difference (I might be wrong on that). I disagree with ID cards. The war on terror started long ago and has its roots in Iran/Iraq and the 1950s. It seems the west interfered and this is partly as a result of ‘best intentions’. Obviously some of that has led to hatred towards others, particularly Muslims. Same thing happens with black people before. Personal data should not be sent outside this country – for God’s sake, we are supposed to be a high-technology service sector. The Gay scene is a bit youth-orientated. That’s life. I’m no longer geogious – if I ever was! Even Squidy has it right there, we are voting for the best of a bad bunch.
But it comes down to how the government decides to react to those things. Britain has the most CCTV of any country in the world. Why and who decided that was a good idea? Photographers are harrassed on the street. Just last week a Commons select committee said that Tony Blair had damaged the UK’s reputation worldwide by being so eager to support George Bush. That was his decision.
Actually I agree with you that things can change and I have said that to people in the past and have even pointed to 1930′s Germany as an example. I believe a form of civil partnership was even proposed for one region of Germany in the Thirties (or maybe I dreamt that?). But things can change for all kinds of unexpected reasons. Just as the changes over the past 13 years have had pluses and minuses. Maybe five more years of Gordon Brown’s economic policies will result in civil war and the BNP gaining power? So we should fear more Brown rather than Cameron?
A few years ago the MOD did a look ahead to what the threats might be in the future and one thing they foresaw was the radicalisation of the middle classes as they were squeezed. Exactly what is happening right now in fact…
What I keep coming back to is this:
Neither of the mainstream Parties give a toss about Queer Rights and we will have to (as we have since the 90s) rely on Europe to protect our rights.
If neither party cares then we either waste our votes (as I will) or choose another issue to inform our decision on who to vote for. Allot of people across the country are doing this and they’re deciding the Torys are best on the economy.
There will be no hung parliament – the Tories are scoring an average of 10 – 11% ahead in all the recent pools and the earlier ones that showed a narrowing where more of a political statement than a statistical one. In one YouGov poll that show a 2% difference the raw date showed a 16% Tory lead.
“Information chips implanted in the brain. Electromagnetic pulse weapons.” Oooh. I want one of those.
I’m still hoping for a Lab/LibDem pack. Actually, I’m hoping for a LibDem / Labour pack (spot the difference), but I do really do fantasy role playing anymore – not since I hurt my back!
Sometimes, better the devil you know. And if you can handcuff him to the LibDem bed, so he knows his place, all the better.
Gotta go. I’m done in.
‘better the devil you know’ – not exactly ambitious are you?
vulva-reeks….what a sad ugly little turd you are. A bit rich of you to comment on anyones posts when all you ever do is attack Genuine gay posters. You are the loser as far as anyone on here can see..so crawl back under the bitter litle stone you crawled out from You will find callmedave the salesman there waiting there for you………….
What about the gay people who have been butchered in Iraq and yet Gordon Brown still says the war was a good idea. Iraq was a socially tolerant society and now is an extreme religious iranian satellite state. No but that won’t be fair the govt’s record can never be judged no matter what they do. In UK Labour gets support no matter what they do. This has been going on for 13 years now. 13 years in power and you are going after the opposition not the govt.
I would if i could safely bet my life savings that NON of the so called gay tories posting on this site and thread are gay…not a single on . The hilariously silly Squidgy pretends to be a gay liberal D, the vile vulpus rex…well no one really knows if he is even a human,the deeply offensive and silly Sr Mary C,well we all know where she’s coming from and theotherone is just a tory troll and side show who has yet to post anything anyone can never mind want to read.Then we have the odious GS whatever he she it is .
All genuine gay people if they put an effort into it can make a difference in this election and we can with a concerted effort keep callmedaves Law and Justice racist homophobic tory party from winning this election. Even if we dont like labour there are enough Independents and Lib Dems running to make a difference.
So please genuine gay brothers and sisters do think before you send us all back thirty years. Remember the last this lot were in power…. with 175 interest and millions on the dole and thousands of people thrown out on the streets…. Vote anyone but the vile homophobic tories…for all our sakes.!
SimonM “Squidgy’s sole reason for voting Tory is ‘They are not Labour’”
Sounds like a good basis to start. I’d vote for a small, slightly limp garden snail before I voted Labour.
Considering the fact that Chris Grayling and his homophobic musings have been all over the news for the past few days, there can be little doubt but that the issue of gay rights has been on Cameron’s mind yet he choose to omit any reference to LGBT
people from his “great ignored” speech. Therefore this should be seen as nothing less than a deliberate snub to the gay community and a sign of things to come should people be naive enough to elect the Tories to power on May 6th.
On a wider point, actions speak louder than words. Whatever their other failings, there has been great progress on LGBT issues since Labour came to power 1997 as no doubt there would have been had the Lib Dems been in govt.
The Tories meanwhile have hijacked our issues in a cynical attempt to appear modern and liberal but just a short few years ago they were still cheerleaders for Section 28, opposed openly gay soldiers in the Armed Forces and were less than keen on civil partnerships and gay adoption.
More recently they have been busily cozying up to the most odious far-right homophobes in the European Parliament and as has already been pointed out on this forum, their CURRENT voting record on gay issues has been absolutely atrocious.
There is simply too much at stake for LGBT rights to turn the clock back now. Despite Cameron attempting to come across as oh so cool and 21st century, his rhetoric is nothing more than a smokescreen for a party still rooted in an anti-european, anti-gay, pro-rich, little englander mentality.
“opposed openly gay soldiers in the Armed Forces”
Sorry, Pink, that was Labour love
No, in fact it was William Hague who as leader of the Tories pledged to reverse the lifting of the ban on openly LGBT members of the Armed Forces around the same time as he and other Tory frontbenchers were defending Section 28 and coming out against the proposed introduction of civil partnerships.
Certainly the ruling from Europe on the military ban was crucially important but the UK government was not bound to implement it within a given time frame. By way of comparison, it took the Irish government a full five years to decriminalise male homosexual acts after a similiar judgement was handed down by the European Court of Human Rights in 1988. And even if the Labour Government did not instigate this particular reform, their overall record on LGBT equality is far superior to anything the Tories have or would have done. The only significant “reform” a Conservative govt ever supported and enacted was Section 28!
Even if Cameron himself is sincere in his recent conversion to the cause of gay equality (which going by his voting record is very doubtful) the party he leads is still overwhelmingly socially conservative all the way from the frontbench to grassroots level.
If people value the importance of LGBT issues in this election then they should vote for one of the three main progressive parties on offer – Labour, the Lib Dems or Greens. The Tories are just not worth the risk. Their track record of homophobia speaks for itself.
Talking about leaving people out of his speech, I wish Cameron had said a word about Gay asylum seekers.
The LibDems and the Greens have the right idea on the issue, no doubt about that.
We don’t have to second guess Cameron about Gay asylum;
He obviously shares the opinion of those who think Gays belong in an asylum.
Alas JP, none of the Parties seem to give a toss about any Asylum seekers never mind Gay ones (not to mention Bisexual, Lesbian and Trans ones.)
Amazing how Labour’s failings are transfered to the Tories. Scream about Section 28 all you like but Cameron has apologised for it while Labour has brought in something even worse.
Lets just think of some of Labour’s failings shall we?
1. Led by a man who never voted in favor of a single Gay Rights issue before becoming PM.
2. Only implemented what Europe has forced them to regarding Queer rights.
3. Tried to make Homosexuality a Personality Disorder for which you could be interned indefinitely.
4. Refused to back Scottish Labour on the repeal of Clause 28 until they could be sure it was a vote winer (please don’t tell me I’m wrong, I was there.)
5. Brought in a piece of legislation that is worse than Clause 28
6. Refuses to sack Labour Members who run Homophobic Campaigns
7. Labour had to withdraw Homophobic ‘doctored’ posters of George Osbourn in make-up.
8. Reversed a decision in the House Of lords to allow Civil Partnerships in Religious buildings.
9. Refused to back full Employment Equality for Queers.
10. forces Trans People to devolve their marriages to get Gender Recognition.
I could go on and on and on but, frankly, it makes me sick to think about it.
That kind of re-enforces my belief that the UK would not be a “country of choice” for Gay asylum seekers.
jean-Paul and Canada is? Robert Dziekanski would probally disagree.
theotherone’s little list (137) seems to assume that under a Conservative Government there would have been action against homophobia and in support of LGBT rights. Check their manifestos. David Cameron may smile and wave at gays but as he has already said he will do nothing for us. As PM he would privatise anything that moves and use the financial crisis – created by unregulated greed in the private sector and only saved by our money – to push for a roll back of the state. This is the agenda underneath all the ‘lets-be-friends’ rhetoric: he just wants our votes.
Dean, I would not have brought up this issue unless I thought it clearly expressed in the following article:
Is it possible you skimmed it too rapidly?
I do not mean to say that the UK is not a worthy choice…au contraire.
My point is that a gay person running for his/her life usually has no idea of the journey ahead, nor is the destination necessarily a deliberate choice.
The attitude you have shown towards me it exactly my point in argument to Why we need to rid of this government. You have demonstrated the nasty vile side that so clearly goes as a badge on the chest of Labour. Even opposition politicans are civil to one another but what you show is nothing but intolerance..
My comments are mine and part of a debate. Neither you nor I are right or wrong we just have our wown opinions. The way you turn nasty just plain shows you up for who you really are though I suspect yet again its the one of many guises yet again. One problem I wish PinkNews would deal with.
When will call me ‘Dave’ get around to answering the questions he asked us for?
Or is it a case of a lack of substance from ‘Dave’ and Tories? He never had any intention of answering us, he just wanted to be seen doings something LGBT related!
Tories promise you the world but intend to give you nothing!
Actually in the story on Sunday, towards the end PinkNews announced that Dude Dave C would be answering our questions soon.
#130 c: 17.5% interest
Note how Patrick feels obliged to descend into personal abuse. Anyone who disagrees with him can’t be a ‘genuine gay’ person and is ‘odious’ and must be a ‘Tory’. Patrick, no need to wonder if I’m ‘he, she or it’ as you put it (and exactly what would you classify as ‘it’ by the way?), every post I’ve made has a link to my website where you can find out who I am. Who are you? Hiding behind a name with no link… And as I already mentioned, I am a LibDem, I have never voted Labour or Tory.
Something I’ve noticed about the (extreme) left, and which I want to highlight, is a hysterical reaction towards anyone who disagrees with them. They can’t have a debate and discussion. It must become a personal attack and extreme smear campaign — instantly you’re labelled as possibly BNP, a fascist or Tory just because you have the cheek not to support New Labour!
Glad to see the Pink News polls showing strong support for the Lib Dems.
GS.. the only reason i included you in the post you refer to was your post #59, where you attempted to become a pink news editor, by critisising my drag and drop article from the Sunday times.If you had taken the time you used to do a word count, to read the article you would have noticed that the original writers name was attached as well as the Sunday Times tag. But noo, what really riled you was the content of the piece about homophobic Callmedaves European partners the Law and Justice party. The origin of the piece wasn,t any of your business unless you are in the employ of Murdoch or are the original writer. In the event Pink News saw fit to remove the article so no harm done. In other words i attack when attacked…so butt out.
You’re wrong Patrick. What really ‘riled’ me, as a freelance journalist and photographer myself, was you copying and pasting an entire 4,500 word article. The fact that you credited the source that you stole it from makes no difference. It was just something for you to grab and ‘use’.
I disagree that sticking up for fellow creative people against blatant theft makes me an ‘odious’ person? And don’t make the mistake of thinking that Murdoch necessarily owns everything he publishes. Writers and photographers can licence their work in all kinds of different ways. But it’s hard enough for them to earn a living these days without people posting articles and photos all over. Just link…
GS …I actually bought the paper the article was in (Sunday Times Magazine) and nowhere on the article does it say that the piece was copywrited. If it did i would not have used it, as i myself produce intellectually copywrited material and would be annoyed if it were “stolen” I had as i’m sure you noticed earlier in the thread posted a link to the article, but then went ahead and posted the full article. my action was purely in the interest of other posters and as you will know held no gain for me.
‘heotherone’s little list (137) seems to assume that under a Conservative Government there would have been action against homophobia and in support of LGBT rights’
no James, what it is is a list of what LABOUR have done to us.
#149…..oops… senior moment…copywrited??? should be copyrighted of course….. pity we can’t edit after post…….
There seems to be some confusion here over copyright. There is no requirement for anything to be marked with the copyright symbol or have a statement to that effect. Every creative work is automatically protected by copyright unless the author/owner deliberately puts it into the public domain. Buying a newspaper doesn’t give the buyer any kind of licence to distribute or republish content from that paper. It makes no difference whether you profit or not. Though it’s more serious if you do. One of the questions would be was there any loss to the original publication or author? By posting the whole article here instead of linking obviously there could be financial loss because people don’t have to go to the other website to read it.
You can legally posts a short text extract for the purposes of review, though the law doesn’t say how much you can safely quote. And Murdoch is getting his knickers in a twist about anyone posting anything at all.
I’m sure you did it with the best of intentions though.
Jason @ #129 wrote: “Iraq was a socially tolerant society” prior to the removal of Saddam.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Oh, no it was not. Yes, gays and prostitutes were under LESS threat that they are there now, but do not think for a second that Iraq was “socially tolerant” in the sense that you may think the UK is socially tolerant. I lived there. I know.
Iraq was a loose cannon in the Middle East. It had invaded and occupied a neighbouring Muslim country. It had killed thousands of the inhabitants of that country. The torture it used to persecute the inhabitants of that country were Mephistophelian. Saddam had already gassed thousands of the inhabitants of his own country. Anyone who disagreed with his dictatorship was simply shot. Saddam was also hell-bent on developing weapons of mass destruction. The UN found evidence of this and therefore for years they monitored Iraq, though with great difficulty because of the cat and mouse games the Iraqis played.
Many of the innocent people of Iraq, those who rejoiced when we brought Saddam down, have unquestionably suffered since. But the whole region and the wider world was in grave danger and responsibility required that the dictator be removed.
It would have assisted greatly if Britain had removed Hitler before 1939 but the government of that time was too lily-livered to do so. We ended up suffering incredibly. Do not forget the horror of that period. Do not forget the hundreds of thousands of British people who died.
The inability of many people to remember realities is disturbing.
Thanks for clearing up the myth of an enlightened Iraq under Saddam.
Is it really any more enlightened now with LGBT people being tortured to death in the most grotesque ways? The torture has just moved from certain groups in Iraqi society to others? Eddy what about the ‘reality’ of the thousands who are now suffering from cancer in southern Iraq and the deformed babies, caused by depleted uranium from weapons used by the United States? Isn’t that a war crime?
The truth is that Saddam was kept in place by the West when it suited our purposes and then removed when no longer wanted. In 1983 Reagan supported Iraq and sent Donald Rumsfeld even though the US knew at that time that Saddam was using chemical weapons. Much of the talk was about oil. What a surprise. Diplomatic relations between the US and Iraq were restored in 1984!
GS, glad to note that you acknowledge that Saddam was guilty of atrocities. And, yes, I acknowledge that at one point it suited the West to let him remain in power than moving in to remove him earlier.
One could point the finger at ourselves right now and accuse us all of not taking action on Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his obvious determination to develop nuclear weapons to get the upper hand over Israel and to make fundamentalist Islam into a great force.
@ Eddy – you seem to be very selective. Many countries have committed ‘atrocities’ on their own citizens and others. But it just depends whether they are on ‘our side’ at the time or not.
Have you heard about how the US government deliberately poisoned alcohol during the prohibition days of the 1920′s resulting in at least 10,000 deaths? By comparison, Saddam’s poison gas killed 5,000. Or the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment in the US where over 40 years until 1972 399 black men were allowed to die of syphilis and never told what illness they had, all for research purposes. I can can give you dozens of other examples.
Many people would say Israel is a terror state. It has nuclear weapons that it won’t admit to, there are no inspections for those, it is in breach of numerous UN resolutions on settlements and it practices state-sanctioned assassinations. What about the ongoing blockade of the West Bank? Why should Israel have the ‘upper hand’ over any other country as you put it? It has shown that it can’t be trusted to act in a responsible and proportionate way.
hey gs, don’t you just love all that pink behind Dave’s moosh?
@ Joan – I’m voting LibDem as usual no matter what colour background Cameron or Brown stand in front of!