I have no interest in asking a prospective MP about British CP’s being recognised abroad.
I want to ask them why I am denied access to the legal contract of civil marriage based solely on my sexual orientation.
“Use your vote – thousands of bigots will.”
Indeed – although of course seeing as Stonewall are opposed to gay people being allowed to enter the contract of civil marriage based solely on our sexual orientation, I wonder if we should regard Stonewall as bigots?
After all Stonewall are damaging the LGBT rights movement. They are the ‘Uncle Toms’ of the LGBT movement. They are the ‘good’ gays who will NEVER cause an ounce of discomfort for government. Their main function seems to be to rubberstamp government policy with no regard for the constituency they claim to represent.
By all means question your MP. But also remind your MP that Stonewall speak for nobody but their own 20,000 members
What’s happened to call me Dave’s answers to our questions?
SimonM, I totally concur with you. I’m going to do the same. As for CP’s being recognised abroad….not going to happen since they’re in the minority across the EU, Canada and already five states in America. Civil marriage is the trend not civil partnerships because of their lack of portability in six out of eight countries already that allow us to legally marry.
Why are trans people excluded by Stonewall?
Silly question, SimonQ.
Under the all-wise Mr Summerskill, there’s no T in S-onewall.
Haven’t we been asking these question alreayd, have the answers changed? I’m interested in CP recognition abroad but no-one tells me where it is already recognised. No-one knows for sure do they? As far as we know they are probably recognised alreayd, the FCO tells us we have to ring around every foreign embassy and ask them ourselves !!
try this website http://www.uklgig.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2213, will tell you more that any MP , fco or gay org about CP recognition abroad!. Agree with the other comments about Stonewall – gay marriage – main gay issue in the UK surely! Who will do anything about it , not lab or cons, lib dems might but they won’t get in, so lets all vote like anyone else and base it it on the crap economy, rubbishy services, poor pound etc ….
Confused, No. 7 and Kitty, No. 6….There are errors in that website you posted. I know first hand that in the American states of New Hampshire and Massachusetts, CPs are NOT recognised as marriages but as civil unions. They are NOT recognised as marriages anywhere. The various forms of same-sex unions that exist in Europe and elsewhere are not indentical and equal. For instance, a British CP’d couple choosing to reside in France would NOT enjoy all of the rights they enjoy in the UK because France’s version, PAC, offers only a handful of rights, far fewer than CP’s provide. It is futile supporting CP recognition elsewhere because of the disparities that those other forms of legal unions convey. Only civil marriage can eradicate all of these issues and none of us would be having this discussion if that were the case in the UK. 8 countries now confer civil marriage on same-sex couples, each reciprocating the others’ marriage laws. However, that said….my partner and I travelled to Canada to get married, but….here at home, our marriage is not recognised as such, only as a civil partnership which it clearly is NOT last time I read our “certificate of marriage” issued by the province of Ontario, Canada.
The only party in our own country strongly in favour of civil marriage equality is the Green Party. Meanwhile, one or two in the Liberal Democratic party support it, and of course, NONE in Labour or Tory parties, no surprise there. That won’t change either, no matter who occupies No. 10 Downing Street unless we demand the change we need, without any meddling by StonewallUK who do not speak for the thousands of us who want that freedom to choose to marry or not.
SimonM, describing StonewallUK as bigots I think hits the nail on the head. They most certainly are! The sheer arrogance of them when they claim that they speak for the vast majority of British gays is breath-taking at best. 20,000 or more out of 2-3 million is hardly the majority.
Stonewall need to stop peddling the lie that they speak for ANYONE other than their 20-30,000 supporters.
They do not!
I may have been harsh in calling Stonewall ‘bigots’ because I think a more accurate description of them would be ‘homophobes’.
Pope Ratzinger is a bigot. I would not however regard Ben Summerskill as a bigot.
The fact remains however that Summerskill is opposed to same sex couples being allowed acess to the legal contract of civil marriage, based purely on their sexual orientation.
Regardless of how you try to spin that, it remains homophobic.
Stonewall are in large part to blame for the fact that marriage equality is dead as an issue in the UK. Labour and the Tories are suffering from the delusion that Stonewall is the ‘official spokesgroup’ for the LGBT community.
They are not.
I would encourage everyone to question their prospective MP’s about the issue of marriage equality (or any issue of importance). But it’s also worth pointing out to prospective MP’s that Stonewall is a minor lobby group who represent a tiny number of LGB (but not T) people, and are sorely out of touch with the LGB (but not T) constituency they pretend to represent.
It’s a very sad situation that Stonewall are consigning themselves to the scrap heap through their refusal to support equal rights for same sex couples, as they have done a lot of good work in the past.
SimonM, we need to grow a rival organisation with civil marriage quality as a top priority. I don’t understand why we don’t have one, other countries do, even Ireland. Many in the CP camp have been lulled into a false sense of security that the battle for full equality is over now that CPs are on the books, StonewallUK included. How can any sensible person assume that bestowing similar rights to one specific group under a different name is about equality? How is it that eight countries came to the realisation that these varying forms of same-sex unions were not equal in any way shape or form? My goodness, who would have thought Spain and Portugal would have gone that extra mile? It puts us to shame. Those of us who haven’t given up the fight for FULL equality need to mobilise and get our own movement off the ground.
I looked at the website cofused posted, isn’t it mostly saying that the British civil partnership will get at least the same rights as what is currently available in that country. My reading from some of the comments from the embassies are that the British civil partnership will be regarded as a gay marriage if that’s the only thing that country has to offer. Getting a gay marriage in the UK won’t mean that it will be recognised as a marriage in antoher country necessarily, France does but Germany doesn’t and they have refused recently to recognise Duthc gay marriages as marriages. I’m all for gay marriages and from this website it looks like Slovenia and Luxembourg are going to bring in one soon but lets not confuse it with getting rights in our EU or foreign countries in the same way as a straight marriage.
“we need to grow a rival organisation with civil marriage quality as a top priority.”
Stonewall has already got the contacts and access to those in power.
A quicker way to reach equality would be for Stonewall to catch up with the LGBT community and state quite clearly that they regard CP’s as inadequate.
If they continue to refuse to support equality then quite simply people need to stop donating money to them.
At the present time they are not fit for purpose as an LGB (but not T) advocacy group because of their opposition to legal equality for gay couples.
I recommend that Ben Summerskill resign after the election and be replaced with a new head of Stonewall who is not opposed to equality.
Then they should stop parroting the government line and start actually campaigning on the issues that matter to the community they currently only pretend to represent.