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Top family law expert says gays could successfully challenge UK marriage ban

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  1. Hee, hee, hee! So WHO are going to be the first brave pair to take up the gauntlet and proceed to challenge the UK “gay marriage ban”?

    Nice brave and preferably photogenic couple, please! You’ll be our heroes for evermore!

  2. WOO GOOD NEWS!! :)

  3. Lady Deech however, is a stupid ass.

  4. “The limit to same-sex relationships is that they cannot be a reproductive unit in a way that is best for the welfare of the child if they cut out all contact with members of the other sex or falsify the birth registration.”

    yes because it’s much better for a child to have a father so it can be abused, mistreated and taken for granted. How dare lesbians think of raising children in a happy and loving household (!)

    i think neutering the hets would solve a lot of problems, then maybe they’d leave us alone.

  5. Mihangel apYrs 16 Mar 2010, 6:24pm

    I think Deech would be an interesting person to debate issues with (such as SS parenting): she seems at least to think rather than react.

    Emma, please don’t over-generalise, not all men, even straight men, are abusive bastards, the majority do try their best for their children.

  6. I have never been comfortable with the 2 mums being able to be on the birth certificate. Even if my female partner and I did have a child through IVF I would be concerned with her being on the cert as the other parent. That child will get to an age and want to know where it’s genes are from.

  7. “The limit to same-sex relationships is that they cannot be a reproductive unit in a way that is best for the welfare of the child if they cut out all contact with members of the other sex or falsify the birth registration.”

    What does that mean “if they move to a single-sex desert island?” No, I reckon that wouldn’t be very much fun, as well as pretty hard to find, never mind buy!!

    The reality, though, is that all the LGBT families I know go out of their way to ensure their kids have a balance, broad and eclectic range of role-models, from ALL genders and sexual orientations, race, colour and yes, even religions, exactly *because* their own upbringing was so limited they’d never come across someone like themselves and so we grew up thinking we were the only ones.

    Anyway, I can’t imagine wanting to stand in some drafty church, in front of a bloke with really bad dress sense … I mean, BROGUES? under a gold and purple frock??? EEEUUUUKKKKK!.. and THE HAIR!!!!

    There is a good example of a role model I DON’T want for my children! … come to think of it, right there’s the type of person I’ll take out an injunction on, to stay as far away from my children! A potential, church-shielded pedophile!

  8. Well, the 2-mums-birth-certificate is just the same procedure as in the case of heterosexuals using IVF to conceive. Even if the dad is not the biological father, he appears on the birth certificate as the dad. Interestingly that doesn’t shock half as many people as those who are appalled by the 2-mums scenario because at least “it looks real”.

    And it’s not an anti-father thing either. From April of this year same-sex male couples who have children through surrogacy will also be able to obtain a parenting order to have both fathers’ names on the birth certificate. I’m guessing Lady Deech will be shocked when she hears about that one.

  9. Tim Hopkins 16 Mar 2010, 9:24pm

    Where B Deech has got it wrong is that for a long time, many birth certificates have not been a record of who the biological father is, as Val said. In part because of the rules since 1990 about children born to mixed-sex couples from donated sperm. But also because there are many children whose biological father is not the man mentioned on their birth certificate – for example where the father was not the mother’s husband, but the husband does not know that. And of course there are many birth certificates with no father named – they were not immaculate conceptions! Therefore her argument, that including on the certificate a mother’s female partner is disguising the true facts, has no basis at all.

    I hope she’s right though about the chances of an equal marriage court case – I get the impression she’s talking about a case in the English courts rather than at the European Court of Human Rights, where the chances are probably less good at the current time. We’ll find out about the Euro Court when the judgment is issued in Schalk & Kopf v Austria, probably this summer.

  10. lisaoutthere 16 Mar 2010, 11:14pm

    About time. And extend the recognition to places like South Africa where gay civil partnerships AND weddings have been legal 3.5 years now. My (gay) South African wedding certificate is not recognised here in the UK even though my straight colleague’s South African wedding certificate is. So, his wife gets his full work pension when he dies, my wife gets nothing.

  11. Mihangel apYrs 17 Mar 2010, 8:04am

    so much for those who have stated here that “CP = marriage” ….

    I would welcome their interpretation of this.

  12. Yes, one of the problems with same-sex marriage is that they’re not recognised internationally. This is part of Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg’s campaign for Marriage Without Borders –

  13. It would be great if we could scrap Civil Partnerships in favour of All being able to marry if we chose. There’d be no need for Marriage Without Borders because marriage is the same the whole world through. Though of course, not for the bigotted.

  14. I agree that CP is great because it was the best that was available at the time. And those that knock Stonewall should remember that. But it is not good enough now and we – and Stonewall – must press for full marriage equality.

    As top Baroness Deech, remember that she is religious – so what do you expect?

  15. I wonder how many of you have ever read any of Deech’s articles? Come on Spike, Val, Tim Hopkins and others – tell us how many of her articles you have read?

    In fact, although she generally takes an outdated, moralistic and reactionary approach, her arguments are powerful and thoughtful. I’ve probably agreed with less than 10% of what I’ve read of what she’s written – what I agree with is primarily her position on not imposing obligations on cohabiting couples.

  16. Lisaoutthere, my partner and I had to go to Canada to get married and we too are in the same situation, our marriage certificate is not recognised here at home. Its disgusting and offensive.

    Dave Page…..same-sex marriage is recognised in seven, soon to be eight countries where it is permitted. Each of those countries reciprocate the recognition of one another’s marriages, so in a sense, international recognition has already made inroads. Unfortunately, our own country isn’t among them. I am encouraged though that Lady Deech believes that we may be more successful in challenging the decision to ban us from access to civil marriage here at home. According to a poll taken some months ago, it was estimated that more than sixty percent of the British public supported same-sex civil marriage. That’s most encouraging. Now to get Tory/Labour governments to do something about it but I’m not as encouraged by either. I don’t think Cameron would be supportive but that shouldn’t stop us from pursuing it.

  17. Roland, full civil marriage equality must be the next step towards our fall equality, but remember this too…..StonewallUK does NOT support it. I’ve had several email exchanges with it over the past couple of years about this very issue. Their response….”many gay people don’t want marriage” or….”civil partnerships give us more than enough rights.” Go figure. I’ll continue knocking them for that alone. It buries its head in the sand on this one when its apparent that full marriage equality is slowly emerging as the only vehicle to get us our full rights as evidenced by eight countries that abandoned various forms of legal unions because of the inequalities inherent in them. That trend will continue to grow, while civil partnerships, PACs etc. won’t. There is absolutely NO parity between the varying degrees of same sex unions across the EU, only marriage will resolve the inequities of that absurd and ridiculous situation. For example, if a civil partnered British couple were to reside in France, the rights they enjoy in the UK would not be identical to any rights under PACs which convey only a handful of them. Whereas, a gay French couple enjoined in a PAC but residing in the UK would be accorded all the rights of civil partnerships. How on earth can anyone in their right mind deem that as equal? Six EU countries now offer civil marriage equality and each recognises the other’s marriages. We don’t have any of that with CPs and other unions.

  18. The change in the law put gay couples on an equal footing with straight couples in that straight couples can list the mother’s husband as the father even if he is not the biological father. Granting equality is correct, but the system is incorrect and the certificate should list biological parents and other parents such as spouses of biological parents.

    The change means that gay men co-parenting with lesbian couples cannot be named as fathers on the birth certificate, even if they are actively involved fathers. This is very wrong.

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