Slow day at the music-writing factory Elton? Why this idiot feels compelled to speak on behalf of the gay community is beyond me. I mean he married a WOMAN for crying out loud. Or are we supposed to forgive and forget cause he was out of it on coke for about 20 years? Leave the theology to the experts and just do what you do best indulging yourself.
If Ian Watson gave this as his reason why Jesus was not gay…
“Jesus was a Jew and Jewish law regards homosexual practices as a sin. When Jesus challenged his enemies to prove him guilty of sin, they couldn’t do it. Therefore, I have no doubt whatsoever that he was not a gay man.”
… then he needs to remember that Jesus mixed with prostitutes and healed the sick on the Sabbath, all of which were against Jewish law.
We know very little about Jesus and nothing about his sexuality. Both Elton and the God-bothering nutter are talking nonsense. As a Bible-basher the latter should also know that Jesus taught that the Law was made for man, and not the other way round. But selective dyslexia is normal in religious bigots.
Dare you to say Mohammed was a drag queen, Elton. ROFL
Whaty does he know about it? People should nto delve into what they kno wnothing about!
Oh dear… Bless im!
I never met Jesus (but who can say he/she has?), so I really can’t say whether Elton John is right, or not. It sounds like bull-s**t to me, to be honest.
Well, I can’t certify that Jesus was gay any more than the next person, though the fact that he hung around Judea with 12 single guys who followed his every move and never settled down with Mary Magdelane does kind of beg the question!
increase the medication Elton love
Gay Christians and their apologists are very fond of pointing out that Jesus said nothing in the Gospels about homosexuality and that he would have condemned the Church’s oppression of lesbians and gays. The clear implication is that he would have taken a benign attitude towards lesbian and gay sexual practices which are clearly condemned in both Old and New Testaments of the Bible. It has even been suggested that Jesus was himself gay and that, were he alive today, he would support the campaign for lesbian and gay rights.
It is true that there is no record in the Gospels (the only sources for what Jesus allegedly said and did) of him referring to homosexuality, but it is absurd to conclude from this that he would have taken a more liberal stance on homosexual practices than his contemporaries, and condoned them. There is not a shred of evidence to support this conclusion. On the contrary, the views he expresses in the Gospels about other aspects of sexual morality all point in the opposite direction.
He supports the statement in Genesis that in the beginning God created humankind male and female, and uses this as a basis for ethical guidance: That which God has joined [i.e. the heterosexual married relationship] let not man put asunder.
In the Sermon on the Mount, he stresses the importance of adhering strictly to the Mosaic Law – a law which required the death penalty for homosexual acts: Do not suppose that I have come to abolish the Law and the prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to complete. I tell you this: so long as heaven and earth endure, not a letter, not a stroke, will disappear from the Law until all that must happen has happened. If any man therefore sets aside even the least of the Law’s demands, and teaches others to do the same, he will have the lowest place in the kingdom of Heaven.
And not content with insisting on compliance with the Law, he wants to go further in condemning what he regards as sexual sins. Whilst the Law condemns adultery, he goes so far as to claim that lustful looks are equally culpable: You have learned what they were told, “Do not commit adultery.” But what I tell you is this: If a man looks at a woman with a lustful eye, he has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Whilst the Law allowed for divorce in certain circumstances, Jesus condemns it outright and claims it makes people adulterers: They were told, “A man who divorces his wife must give her a note of dismissal.” But what I tell you is this: If a man divorces his wife for any cause other than unchastity he involves her in adultery; and anyone who marries a woman so divorced commits adultery.
There is also a passage in Matthew’s Gospel in which he advises his followers to mutilate themselves rather than give way to sexual temptation – advice taken literally by some, notably the Greek Christian writer Origen who castrated himself in an attempt to get rid of his sexual urges.
Thus, the prudery and puritanism which has characterised the Church’s attitude to sex from the earliest times can be traced back directly to Jesus himself, and the baleful worship of virginity, celibacy and sexual abstinence which has flourished throughout Christian history is all there in germ in the Gospels.
If Jesus were himself gay (and, again, there is not a shred of evidence for this in the Gospels), he would seem to have much in common with those closeted, repressed gay members of the Church of England’s General Synod who voted in favour of the homophobic motion carried overwhelmingly at its meeting in 1987.
Well many people suspected Dumbledore from the Harry Potter series of books was gay before JK Rowling.
Unfortunately whichever novelist wrote the bible is dead, so there is no way of confirming or denying the sexuality of the fictional character of Jesus.
It it makes Elton happy to think that Jesus was gay then good for him. I always found the character of Peter to be far sexier than Jesus who really did seem like a dreary wimp.
Thank you for your elequence as well as the mine of information you provide. Speaking as a long-time Gay Christian, Elton is entitled to believe Jesus was Gay or what ever he thinks is right for him. I want every one to believe in Jesus and they can even say that He is a Pink Triangle or part of it (As in Holy Trinity) In a Play at Glasgow Arts Festival, I did not mind a bit that Jesus was depicted as a ‘Transexual’ The Chuches were up in arms but I could not see the harm in depicting Jesus as anything at all. Now, people think of God in Human terms only, but God is not Human…Just Spirit and all Powerfull.
I attended a Humanist Funeral once. The deceased was an elderly Lady who in 1945 after WW2 was over, she went to Europe to work and help the thousands of displaced children and to me this Humanist Lady was doing God’s work wheather she knew it or not.
I have been told on these threads that I worship ‘sky pixies’ but they are entitled to their opinion too.
Elton John is wrong. One day or another he will pay the price for his insult. No bodyguards will protect him from revenge of Christians.
“Mr” Howard Berar, as a general rule I think you’ll find that, in the civilised world at least, Christians these days prefer following the sixth commandment to murdering those who think differently from them.
There is a long tradition in certain religious quarters (apparently going back all the way to the early church) of thinking that Jesus was gay. This seems to have died out in the 19th c.
And then there is John, the “disciple that Jesus loved”…
At the end of the day, you can find more or less anything and it’s opposite in the Bible.
Interesting to see the article discribing Jesus as the son of god. While there is some historical evidence that a man called Jesus did exist, his divine filiation is as questionable as the existence of god itself…
“And then there is John, the “disciple that Jesus loved”… ”
Sounds hot. They should make a movie out it called ‘I shagged the son of god and all I got was this lousy t-shirt’
I notice that the theologians and philosophers of religion are out in force again… how nice to see that after a cursory reading of certain facts, they feel accomplished enough to pronounce judgment upon a man that they know so little about… just like the religious fundies!
They’re all as bad as each other, taking any opportunity to slap everyone else’s heads with their vicious fundamentalist claptrap.
No wonder intelligent and cogent people of faith, and intelligent and cogent people of none, don’t join their hideously negative organisations.
And yes, Elton is entitled to say what he please, a pity it is in the press though, not exactly intellectual of the year is he? And yes, there is a school of thought within theology that believes Jesus may have been gay, there is certainly circumstantial evidence for such, as there is for an intimate relationship between Jesus and Mary of Magdala. Theories and assumptions, rather like science in many ways. Religion or science, or science and religion, it simply isn’t an issue (except to the fundamentalists on both sides).
Let’s just leave the name-calling (you started it) and insults to those with little knowledge of each other’s claimed “specialisation” shall we?
Or perhaps every time religion is mentioned, even in a positive way by an alleged “gay icon”, you feel the need to crawl out of cave and hurl mud at the sunshine, knowledge of said subject aside, to boost your own media presence and provide an opportunity to market your organisation?
And for the record, many gay clergy in the Anglican Communion are distraught by the homophobia in said communion, and openly and bravely stand up and fight it, as they do in all other denominations and religions. What you have written insults not only their faith, but their very identity. The identity that they believe Jesus, and therefore God, affirms and accepts with love and grace. Shame on you and shame on anyone that does so. I may have lost my faith, but I am pretty positive I don’t wish to be associated with such discourtesy and scurrility. Good day.
I always knew it! Something to piss of the religious bigots with now! :)
It’s a well known fact Jesus is gay.
there’s nothing in the bible to condemn gays, lesbians or bisexuals and ‘homosexual’ was coined in 1868
the bible’s also been mistranslated, re-edited and misunderstood
Good for you, Elton! Well done! You’re famous as hell and lots of kids listen to you and they’re gonna remember this!
“Mommy, Elton John says Jesus was gay!”
“Nonsense! Rubbish! Elton John doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He’s just a silly little pop-singer!”
“Oh. OK, mommy. Whatever you say.” (But thinks: “Elton is cool. Mommy is not. I believe Elton!”)
And Elton COULD very well be right!
“Elton John is wrong. One day or another he will pay the price for his insult. No bodyguards will protect him from revenge of Christians.”
Really? Does this mean they’re going to stop singing Candle in the Wind, because that song really annoys me.
Seriously, when I saw this on the BBC news, I had several thoughts.
a) Pink News are going to have a field day.
b) Some religious type is going to be ‘outraged’. I’m only surprised it’s just the one, yet.
c)Elton, bless his cotton socks, sounded in this interview as loopy and out of touch as the Pope! Whoever wrote down the string of utterances from him did him no favours.
@12, Brian Burton. Brian, why is it that you and people like you insist that everything good is done is your gods work? The lady you spoke of was a Humanist and yet you insult her memory by insisting the work she did was gods. It’s a pity your god wasn’t there in time to stop the war in the first place, that way it would have saved her a train ticket and an awful lot of people an awful lot of suffering. Stop trying to own every good deed done by people. At best it’s mischievous at worst, it’s drifting towards dishonest.
Elton John is wrong. One day or another he will pay the price for his insult. No bodyguards will protect him from revenge of Christians. (You’ve got it all wrong, christer dummy.)
Elton John is wrong. There never was a Jebuz, it’s just another silly sky pixie myth, and not one of the best. One way or another he will pay the price for his silliness. Nothing can protect Elton from the redicule of GLBT folks.
George Broadhead – if you’re the ‘gay humanist’ George Broadhead, I sympathise with a lot of your platform, but your view of the NT is simplistic. Jesus’ views of the Torah as presented are contradictory and he is even shown praising the faith of pagans who would have been completely indifferent to it. He is depicted as saying that the Law was made for Man, and not the other way around.
There is in fact no coherent portrait of Jesus in the NT, something denied by ‘fundamentalists’, but which is part of its interest.
Your critique of irrationally repressive Christian attitudes to sex is justified, but your crudely selective take on the Gospels undermines your position.
Elton John clearly demonstrates how easily people just make up thesises about other people that they never knew and never met. This is what lots of religious folks go like – they say “god doesn’t support that.” – “jesus loves u.” well, that’s same as if i’d say “the Queen doesn’t like my neighbours cat”.
They give someone characteristics and make it up, just like that. Just because they read a book (bible) and joined the fan club (church goer)or what..
What if their strange god changed his mind about lots of things, i mean more than 2000 years is quite a while, i also often change my mind. So why they never talked to him about actualizing the bible?
IN MY OPINION > AS LONG AS HE WAS GOOD: HIS GENDER, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, AND RELATIONSHIP STATUS, DOES NOT REALLY MATTER IN THE BIG UNFOLDING STORY OF THE UNIVERSE.
Jesus was about as real as father Christmas. In theory he came down to experience human suffering and temptations, so in order to do so fully he would have had to have gay feelings.
Well, Elton is not the first guy to come up with this theory. I think there are actual scholars who have made this claim. Sadly, my interest in the topic is so small that I can’t be bothered to back up what I’m saying with a google search but google away ye non believers.
Who cares whether Jesus was gay or not.
Jesus is dull.
That old slut Mary Magdalen sounds like a much better night out. I bet she can make the girls scream as well as the boys.
Well back to Jesus. I suspect Judas was the son of god’s gay lover, but Jesus gave Judas crabs, so Judas decided to betray Jesus to take revenge. I don’t think Judas wanted Jesus to die simply for giving him crabs though. That was a miscalculation on Judas’s part.
Are you talking about the guy in Mel Gibson’s movie?
He was gay??
Well, that explains it it, then.
I guess I’m with Suzo on this one. Practically everything written or said about Jesus comes under the heading of “Fan fiction”, seeing as the gospels mostly postdate his crucifiction by a good hundred years.
Make up your own Jesus story, one of them’s got to be right by the same law that says get an infinite number of monkeys and an infinite number of typewriters and sooner or later they will have written the script to Mel Gibson’s “Passion of the Christ”
Elton’s entitled to his opinion. But it would follow; most priests and clergymen are gay anyway — when they’re not RC paedophiles.
DG: “AS LONG AS HE WAS GOOD”
Why should even that matter in the big unfolding story of the universe? Atheists are crazy – they say life is meaningless and then they get their knickers in a twist about this, that and the other. They never actually live out their lives as if it was all meaningless. Why not pretend to care and then be thoroughly selfish? It’s not as if you believe any “higher being” will judge you.
Atheists are crazy? And we’re not the ones who believe in a mythical figure written about in a book put together donks ago. We’re not the ones who believe carting the bones of dead folk they call saints does anything better than create traffic jams and add to the green house effect. We’re not the ones who believe the blind and crippled were miraculously cured and then fed and watered by divvying out a few loaves of bread and a couple of bottles of wine tasting strangely like water. We’re not the ones who believe statues bleed or cry or do the twist. We’re not the ones who think miracles happen on a daily basis. We’re not the ones who think the world was created in six days and the old chap was so puffed he had to have the next day off. And you call US crazy? Get a grip for goodness sake.
it’s win win. if there is a god then great if we are here by blind luck it’s just as amazing.
I have no ideas whether Jesus was gay or not. We simply do not have evidence one way or the other. Thus, there is about a 10% chance that he was. Perhaps this should be a little higher since it is very odd for a Jewish man of his age to be unmarried in 1st century Palestine. What is more alarming and indeed fightening is the outright hatred that has spewed forth from so-called Christians at the very suggestion of it. After all, perhaps we was gay but celibate – Elton didn’t actually say that Jesus had a boyfriend, just that he was gay. If these people really do believe that it is not wrong to be gay, just wrong to have gay sex, then I cannot understand their extreme reaction. The reality is that fundamentalist Christians really do hate us with a passion. Just take a look at the hatred they have stirred up in parts of Africa. We still have a long way to go.
Hooray for Elton! (though personally I think Jesus was bisexual – he was obviously going out with both John the Beloved Disciple and Mary Magdalene)
Given the amount of queer theology and wonderful gay Jesus art & poetry, I wish the fundies would just grow up and get over themselves and realise how wonderful and liberating the idea of Jesus as a sexual being, and as a bisexual man, is, even though it’s quite likely that he never existed, and is therefore (as someone suggested above) a fictional character.
And for those who say that Jesus never mentioned homosexuality: he did say several other things that suggest he would be LGBT-friendly, and he healed the centurion’s “servant” (a mistranslation for doulos, a male lover). There are plenty of websites that go into this in great detail (e.g. the Would Jesus Discriminate website) if you’re interested.
AngieRS – you worry about the greenhouse effect (which won’t a big problem in your lifetime) but also claim life is meaningless. As I said – crazy. Enjoy your life. You live in a wealthy developed country – why give a toss about global warming? Or maybe deep down you don’t really believe in the atheism stuff? You want to do good in ways that won’t directly benefit you. That makes sense coming from religious people. It’s totally irrational for atheists.
Yeah, ChrisP, that was meant to be tongue in cheek, as was the bit about statues doing the twist but you seemed to bypass that. Wow! I’m crazy and irrational eh? Yet I’m not the one, hang about, I’ve done this already…see no 35. There you can re-read my words and then answer/refute them properly, which you didn’t do the first time round and I doubt you will do now, and then come back and tell me who the irrational one is. Y’know, they used to lock folk up for believing in imaginary people. Funny, though, cos they used to burn those who didn’t. Funny ol lark, this christianity…innit?
Sorry, my sig should read AngieRS
Someone above said Hoorah for Elton but would he dare say the same about Mohammed. Well, darlings, I’m to say it for him.
The Prophet, Peace Be Upon Him, was a disgusting paedophile.
So there we are, darlings! Elton and me: speaking out against the two biggest lies in the world.
AngieRS – it wasn’t obvious to me that your global warming ref was tongue in cheek but I’m sure there’s some other issue you get all deadly serious about even though genuinely “doing the right thing” in the general sense won’t benefit you directly.
For example, an rational atheist living in the UK should tell everyone they care about the suffering in Haiti (to build-up or maintain a reputation for being a nice person) but in reality not give a toss about Haiti or give any money to charity. There’s the slight risk of being caught out as a ‘moral cheat’ but no eternal punishment. Strangely enough there are very few atheists who behave this way. Most seem to think sneaky selfishness is wrong in some deep meaningful way.
After all these years..
How the devil are you!
Not heard of you since we were up at GIRTY’s..!
You never could spell, dahlink..!
It is not ‘PEACE’ dahlink..it is ‘PISS’
(aksherly it is Keith…from SALFORD..!
You know what, ChrisP? I can’t make head nor tails of your last post. I’m looking for rational explanation of your belief. You either can’t or won’t give me one so I think I’ll leave it there. Ta Ta.
Ta ta AngieRS. Keep kidding yourself there is no God. It’s a shame you cannot actually live out your life as if it didn’t have any meaning.
I’m more curious about the female side of old Yewah.
Eternal Lillith couldn’t stand him & his obsession with making Toyboys. The first being Lucifer, made to love him only & Yewah to love Lucifer only. Growing tied of Lucifer, cast him aside to make Michael, that was’nt enough either so he made Adam.
No wonder Eternal Lillith shot through with Lucifer.
Great how stories can be twisted to suit, & good on Elton to Peek at the ancient Hebrew texts. Often androgynous, Yaweh could even be a her. Jesus was also accused of being a drunkard therein.
Here is sompin from the scrolls.
“For I am the first and the last.
I am the honored and the scorned one.
I am the whore and the holy one.
I am the wife and the virgin.
I am the barren one, and many are her sons”.
Can the American Catholic Society & The Brisbane Courier Mail suck on that?
Chrois P – atheists aren’t crazy etc and can find their own meaning
If Elton says jesus was gay, who am I to argue? He’s probably had her!
My verification words today are ‘ungodly’ ‘won’. We live in hope.
Gosh Elton you have set the pussy amongst the pigeons dear heart! All I know is the sign outside the local church said nothing about his sex life, just “Jesus Saves” and someone wrote underneath, “but now he wishes he had shoved it under the matress”
By the way who are all these posh lady’s on here? I am suprised Penelope Arbuthnott- Stjohn-Devillers Von Stuckellhauser has not popped up yet!
Oh, we’re here and watching, Michael, don’t you worry!
(And my verification words for this posting are “impression” and “hovered”!)
Sir Elton cleared it up in the most recent edition of “The Advocate”:
It’s clap-trap peddlers like you that cause all the problems. You are exactly in the same hidious catogory as Moir of the Daily Hiel. Two of a kind, and twice as nasty. Your Life (such as it is!) is meaningless. Therefore you should get one you hidious scumbag!
Brian, come, come! That’s no way to talk to a loidy – and we seem to have quite a lot of them on here at the moment. Moderator your expression, Brian dear. And nip into confession before your visit to Church next Sunday.
I wonder why Elton John is trying to draw more attention to himself?
I always thought the Bible was a fairy tale and this proves it.