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Protestors will tell Pope to ‘snog off’

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  1. Very very nice – and what is planned immediately before and during his visit? That is, if he is allowed into Britian. Keep the pressure up.

  2. Oh, like that’s REALLY going to make Ratzinger wish he hadn’t said anything. it’s all very well and good, but no bugger’s going to notice, least of all old Popey himself who will be limoed through the streets like a bat out of hell.

  3. Why to the Italian Embassy?? The Vatican is an independent country, the last remaining absolute monarchy in Europe. Doesn’t it have its own embassy?

  4. Did a google, here is the address of the actual Vatican Embassy, though I suppose nobody would want to go all the way to Wimbledon!

    Apostolic Nunciature of Holy See (Vatican City) in London, United Kingdom
    54 Parkside
    Wimbledon
    London
    SW19 5NE

  5. Oi! I was born around there! I think the reason it’s the Italian Embassy is because he will be staying there during his visit. More secure and such like. And anyway, it’s the Italians who give this lot lodgings so why not.

  6. The Toly Father will go to Wimbledon to do a toly.

  7. I also thought the decision to demonstrate in front of the Italian embassy was a bit arbitrary… Surely we don’t already know where he’s going to stay when he comes over

  8. Simon Murphy 13 Feb 2010, 2:27am

    Won’t he be staying at a batcave somewhere?

  9. Well that story gave a good laugh if nothing else!

  10. As far as I know, (and these figures are not totally accurate) there are about 4.1 million Roman Catholics in Britain, (excluding the Polish contingent), of which 1,350,000 are church going but the numbers are decreasing. It seems to be a disproportionate amount of money, 20 million pounds of tax payers money, to spend on the visit for a ‘handfull’ of RCC. The only other possible reason for the visit (and I am hedging my bets here) could of course be a sort of ‘solidarity’ with Roman Catholism, which is a sort of a Christian organisation come business, against Islam which is one of the fastest growing religious sects in the world. Col Gadaffi was once quoted as saying that there was no need for terrorism as the followers of Islam are breeding so fast, that Islam will be the biggest world religion in 35 to 40 years and will thus takeover or dominate every aspect of life. Islam is the real enemy of freedom and Christianity and it is a worrying situation. Iran’s growing nuclear capabilities, mosques popping up eveywhere and so it goes on.
    Is this the reason for the visit? I submit this for my learned fellow gays’ comment.

  11. Rich: good point. The American Christian’s believe that due to low birthrates and mass immigration, Europe will, in 50 years time be predominately an Islamic state. If that is the case wish I don’t think should be dismissed, then it’ll be goodbye to freedoms and gay rights. Don’t forget Turkey is the first Muslim country coming into th EU. For all the bashing religion gets I do strongly believe in this country and perhaps throughout Europe it’s a case of ‘better the devil you know’!? It may not be perfect but compared to the alternative I’ll put up with it.

  12. Rich, don’t forget that them “islams” is comin’ up the drainpipes as well. They can do that ‘cos they’re oily you know, being foreign ‘n all.

  13. A pathetic statement Coemgenus!

  14. Ciao

    LOVE

    MAKES …

    THE WORLD GO ROUND

    THE WORLD GO ROUND

    THE WORLD GO ROUND

    Good Luck

  15. Christianity and Islam can be equally bad for freedom

  16. Don’t know how you work that one out Chester. Living in a christian country at least we have more freedoms than if we lived in an Muslim country. Being so blind is being naive to the extreme danger to our future as gay people. Ok granted it ain’t perfect living in a christian country but like I said I’d rather that than the threat of being hanged in a muslim country.

  17. OK, let’s make this snog-in work! That means that hundreds of us have all got to snog our partners (or someone) for a full five minutes so that the press can really get some great footage of same-sex couples down each others throats!

    Now, this is not going to work unless the thing is VERY WELL ORGANISED. You know how squeamish and timids Brits get. What’s needed is for someone to be there with a bloody loud megaphone, to get the crowd worked up and prepared for a good five or ten minutes before the second from which the snog-in begins.

    “Lips and Tongues at the ready, please, for five whole minutes! Counting down, five, four, three, two, one, . . . SNOG!”

    And then, five minutes later, “OK, guys and gals, you may, if you wish, now have a breather!”

    It’ll need this kind of organization to ensure the photographers get the footage! OK, Zefrog?

  18. I think it will only really hit it’s intended target if someone is brave enough to snog Ratzinger! That’s a kodak moment I’d pay to see (though if it were me I’d insist on him wearing a bag on his head!)
    Talking of guilty pleasures, when that lady made a grab for his throat during last year’s Xmas address and pulled him to the ground was I the only one cheering? Made my Christmas!

  19. Hi Flapjack, no you weren’t the only one cheering by any means. There were two of us here who wished she’d managed to throttle the goat!

    But you’re considerations of a “Kodak Moment” do make me think that more than just the Snog-In is needed. There needs to be placards with brave, BOLD, and very direct messages on them to His Holeyness. And, may I suggest, at least half a dozen white-robed effigies of his mitred self dangling by the neck from fishing-rods!

    AND the organisers need to make sure all this happens AS WELL AS make sure a very tempting Press Release goes out to the major papers and broadcasters a couple of days beforehand!

  20. How about a team of buff gay strippers dressed in Vatican robes over thongs which leave nothing much to the imagination gyrating in front of the popemobile pumping to the beat of the dance remixed “I am what I am”? Maybe get some amps and pump it out during his address to the crowds as well!

  21. Brian Burton 13 Feb 2010, 5:59pm

    The Popes past is what he is. It’s the only way he should be judged!

  22. I think those who believe that it’s better to live in a Christian society than a Muslim one shouldn’t lose track of the fact that the freedoms we enjoy are because we live in a secular society where religion is not allwed to dictate our laws. Christianity is no friend of personal freedoms.

    It’s obvious that if we compare a European country to a middle eastern one we have that impression. The example of Belgium springs to mind. There Islam is considered one of the three national religions, on a par with the Christian and Jewish religions. Yet they have same-sex marriage and we don’t. Instead of worrying about Islam, we should worry about our political institutions allowing religions to get away with special exceptions at the expense of our individual rights (see recent news).

  23. Flapjack, what a GREAT idea, you theatrical entrepreneur, you!

    Anyone know a bevvy of good-lookin’ gym-bunnies who would be up for Flapjack’s idea?

  24. Jean-Paul Bentham 14 Feb 2010, 12:55am

    @valerio:

    It occurs to me that if the European Muslim population does increase – as I believe it will – then the gay-Muslim population will increase also, adding strength to GayIslam. Also, I’m not so sure Muslim women will put up with a violent and institutionalized patriarchy much longer. And that goes for Christian women as well.

    No comment on the Italian Embassy, but some of you have read my mind.

  25. 1) So intimidating elderly women on their way to Mass on a Sunday is “loving” is it? I”d like to see what would happen if they pestered Muslims or Jews on the way to worshipping at the mosque or synagogue!
    2) There is a huge difference between love and lust – Love is shown in the selfless willing of the good of another person, not in using another person’s body as a “snog” protest. I’m sure all those holy men and women who have, because of their Catholic faith, given their lives to look after the poor, the dispossessed and the sick really need a lesson in how to love from people who seem only interested in their own agendas.
    3) It will actually be the 6th Sunday in Ordinary Time, not St Valentine’s Day…even then the saints remembered by the Church on the 14th are Cyril and Methodius. St Valentine(s) – as there were probably three – gave their lives for Christianity, so doubt he / they would be happy with this “protest”.

    As to some comments about the role of religion and the British State – what on earth planet are you living on? Catholicism has been the most persecuted minority in British history, and there are laws still in existence to bar Catholics from holding certain offices, and from becoming or marrying the Monarch. There is nothing to stop Muslims or gay men or lesbians from doing this! The Anglican Church, because of its links to the Monarchy and therefore our much cherished constitution, is the State Church but doesn’t really pose any direct challenge to any aspect of law making (bar some bishops in the Lords).

    The Pope has been invited here as Head of State from a Sovereign Nation which has full diplomatic ties with the UK. As Supreme Pontiff the Pope also leads 1.3 billion Catholics world-wide, which makes him one of the most important global players (unlike the dwindling UK). If the Queen and the Government have invited him then it’s only right they pay. He is not coming here as leader of Catholics, but as Head of State invited by the Monarch.

    As for Europe becoming Muslim – well, this does seem inevitable what with the bizarre and self defeating mass immigration policies of the EU over the past 20 – 30 years. We’ll see what happens to Gay rights when that happens.

    Someone said that all our freedoms here are dependent upon a secular State! What? Christianity is the foundation of most of our laws and fundamental principles – most of which were fought for by prominent Churchmen, such as Wilberforce.

    One last comment – whenever I pass Westminster cathedral I often see the homeless around, usually receiving help (the Cathedral runs one huge homelessness centre by itself and is involved with another)…I never see any hanging about gay venues. Maybe the poor and those most in need in society know who really cares for them…Not gays and atheists, but those motivated by a higher Love.

    PS – which reminds me, if religious bodies stopped providing all the social help that they do this State would be bankrupt (having to find 100% funding for homelessness charities, schools, carehomes, rehabs, and so on)…I don’t see many gay organisations and humanists willingly (and for free) deciding to look after those whom society really despise – i.e. the disabled, the sick and the rejected.

  26. Weither we like it or not people all over the world feel the need to follow religion, it gives them peace of mind. I personally don’t follow religion but I do understand and in some circumstances respects the right to do so. Surely if we learn anything from history we must learn that if one religion falls into decline another one will take over. Islam is the fastest growing in the world at the moment. So my point is, yes it’s not ideal but if we are to have religion (and we have no choice, those who believe will out number those that don’t) then I would much rather have it under a Christian one than a Muslim one. At least in this country what the church says doesn’t necessarily rule me as a gay man, oh I know they’d like it but Generally they don’t. Under an Islamic state that wouldn’t be the case.

  27. Seb – “Christianity is the foundation of most of our laws and fundamental principles – most of which were fought for by prominent Churchmen, such as Wilberforce.”
    You neglected to mention that other Churchmen before Wilberforce were responsible for implementing and endorsing slavery in the first place. Besides, I was always led to believe that moral philosophy started with the Greeks, going right the way up to Emmanuel Kant and beyond. No church required.
    “If the Queen and the Government have invited him then it’s only right they pay. He is not coming here as leader of Catholics, but as Head of State invited by the Monarch.”
    Yes, and who subsidises their invites, hmmm? Could it be the taxpayer? In this instance a large proportion of the taxpaying public paying for the pope to come over and tell them how few rights they should have. Next you’ll be advocating an extravagent all expenses paid invite for Fred Phelps.
    If the pope wants a junket fine, but don’t expect the rest of us who hate his guts to cough up £20 million for the privilege. I hear youth hostels cost an average of 25 quid a night, and given his track record on abortion, Aids in africa, women’s rights and gay rights that’s the extent to which I would expect someone who lives in a palace that’s also a city to be subsidised.
    Hell- he should be paying us. After all he’s the one preaching about vows of poverty, I didn’t realise they included sponging off the UK taxpayer while living in your own city!
    As for your islamic straw man, being the lesser of two evils doesn’t merit the red carpet treatment either.

  28. Pumpkin Pie 14 Feb 2010, 10:35am

    I never see any hanging about gay venues.

    Do you see them hanging around straight venues? Muppet.

  29. Pumpkin Pie 14 Feb 2010, 10:54am

    I think those who believe that it’s better to live in a Christian society than a Muslim one shouldn’t lose track of the fact that the freedoms we enjoy are because we live in a secular society where religion is not allwed to dictate our laws. Christianity is no friend of personal freedoms.

    It’s obvious that if we compare a European country to a middle eastern one we have that impression. The example of Belgium springs to mind. There Islam is considered one of the three national religions, on a par with the Christian and Jewish religions. Yet they have same-sex marriage and we don’t. Instead of worrying about Islam, we should worry about our political institutions allowing religions to get away with special exceptions at the expense of our individual rights (see recent news).

    What a brilliant comment. So nice to see someone taking a measured approach to Islam. I am wary of fundamentalists, and even intolerant “moderates”, but when people just tar every muslim with the same brush, it works against us. Just as we have christian allies, we have muslim allies as well. Maybe not as many, although that’s mostly to do with nationalities, but they are out there (one of my best friends is one) and it benefits us not to alienate them.

    This comparison between muslim and christain countries is problematic. Muslim Turkey legalised homosexuality 150 years ago. Christian Uganda attempted to make homosexuality punishable by death and is still pushing for life imprisonment. There’s more to culture than religion.

    I would hate it, but you know what I think would happen to us if Britain converted to Islam? Not a whole lot, because Britain is secular. We need to combat fundamentalism and anti-secularists, whoever they are, not just whichever religion we deem to be the worst.

    As such, I hope everyone who participates in this event has a great time!

  30. All you need is Love 14 Feb 2010, 11:56am

    I will keep it very basic:

    Mirroring oneself or an organisation:

    They say when people argue unconsciously the first thing they do is attack the other person with an attack on themselves.

    For an example “get a life” and so on blah blah blah.

    Seb:

    2 There is a huge difference between love and lust.

    3 is shown in the selfless willing of the good of another person, not in using another person’s body.

    3) It will actually be the 6th Sunday in Ordinary Time, not St Valentine’s Day…even then the saints remembered by the Church on the 14th are Cyril and Methodius. St Valentine(s) – as there were probably three – gave their lives for Christianity, so doubt he / they would be happy with this “protest”.

    ( The Church live off the poor. The poorer the people the richer the Church. )

    “It shows a willingness of the good of another person not in using another person’s body.”

    Enjoy reading his message again read it all.

    P.S. can somebody post the postcode of the demonstration so I can use my satellite navigation system to get there.

  31. Flapjack – When the State is funded so much by religious organisations, esp. the Catholic Church the least it can do is say thank you and offer to pay (as with any other) State visit of the Pontiff. The Church props up major parts of the health system, social services and education even here in secular Britain, without which the State would be bankrupt and taxes much higher. The tax breaks given to religious organisations (as charities) don;t even begin to make up for the amount they freely spend on servicing various social and welfare projects. It might also surprise you to know that Catholic pay taxes, too, and have a right to have that money spent in a way they would like, once in a while. The money they give to the State, like everyone else is obliged to by English law, goes to fund abortions and sexual health services which run contrary to their consciences – yet they still pay and very rarely complain. We live in a democracy not a gayocracy, where everything must conform to the same sex or humanist / secular agenda. If there are religious people in a democracy expect that they have some influence on the law. Only two types of governments have stopped religion from contributing to society: those on the extreme right and those in Soviet regimes.

    Pumpkin pie – You forget that the Greeks and Romans and even Kant had no moral objection to slavery, or even concerned themselves with it. St Paul, unable to change the Roman legal system (being condemned by it himself) advised people who found themselves with servants who were owned not paid for (i.e. slaves) to treat them like brothers and not commodity. You might be surprised to know that wasn’t the done thing in the 1st Century. There is more slavery in the world now, and the only people fighting against it are in Churches (even organisations like Amnesty etc were founded in Christian parishes). I wonder how many men who watch porn are really concerned about some of the sexual slaves used in making those videos? do I ever see them hang about straight venues, why yes, such as the churches, mosques and synagogues. The sad reality is that there aren’t any “gay community” type charities that offer help to anyone outside their own community. The only concern the gay scene seems to have is the protecting of its own right to have copious amounts of sex and alcohol. I don’t see gay charities contributing the the greater good of the society at large – unlike the Church, which provides services to all who need them. In fact gay charities eat up public funds only for the benefit of usually gay men (as opposed to lesbians) who seem to need the services of the NHS or sexual health groups more than the average straight person.

    Why should all the millions of decent religious people have to fund free condoms and lube for those who can’t keep their willies in their pants?

    All you need is Love – yes, that is all you need, true Love, God’s Love which is allied to Truth, which never changes however painful that might be to accept. As for the Church living off the poor – you seem know nothing either about the Church or real poverty.

    I hope you found the protest – I walked past and it seemed embarrassing for having such a low number of attendees. There were probably 10 times more people in the 12pm Mass at the Cathedral, and that was only one of about seven there today. Lots of gay men and women would have been at those Masses, who are far happier being called Catholic than known for a particular aspect of their sexual lives.

  32. Well, I don’t know about here but the French protest was marred by threats and acts of violence from the religious quarter. The demo was moved from the Notre Dame cathedral for safety but some who stayed and demonstrated were attacked. So much for all that good ol peace loving christianity. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/14/gay-kiss-in-in-paris-take_n_461879.html

  33. Jean-Paul Bentham 15 Feb 2010, 2:12am

    I saw footage of the French Kiss-In on Towelroad. There were thousands of young gay couples who took the advise of the gendarmes and went to another church called St-Michel.

    Most of those interviewed said they were disappointed, but at the same time they were glad to have avoided violence. The Police knew that there 200 young catholic men ready to protect Notre-Dame.

    According to Towelroad, it is true that those who stayed and those who returned to Notre-Dame were beaten with motorcycle helmets and kicks.

    But the Kiss-In at St-Michel appears to have been a success; check out the video clip.

  34. “In fact gay charities eat up public funds only for the benefit of usually gay men (as opposed to lesbians) who seem to need the services of the NHS or sexual health groups more than the average straight person.”

    What a bizarre comment Seb. Gay charities ‘eat up public funds’ no differently than any other. You clearly haven’t seen inside a GU (STD) clinic. If you had you’d see that the majority of people in their seeking treatment for an STD are Straight! For all your love of sniping you could at least find out the facts first instead of digging your own conclusions and coming up with false statement to suit your own religious ends. Isn’t that the whole problem, you don’t seek the facts to make up a religious arguement you create them to suit yourself, thus spewing inaccurate lies in the hope they stick. So much for your idea on love!

  35. It should have been a toly-in with everybody doing a toly outside the embassy in honour of His Toliness.

  36. Seb-
    “Why should all the millions of decent religious people have to fund free condoms and lube for those who can’t keep their willies in their pants?”
    Good point. Maybe you should ask most of Africa, dying in droves because they get their sex-ed lessons from an 82 year old Catholic virgin who believes condoms increase the spread of aids.
    And that’s before we mention the uncanny knack he has of shifting paedophiles in his clergy around from parish to parish without getting the police involved and silencing witnesses.

  37. So what happened? This was yesterday, and of course there is no mention today anywhere on the net!!

  38. Pope Benedict XVI was once dubbed “God’s rottweiler”, but he has proved a less authoritarian pontiff than his hard line reputation led many to expect.

  39. Seb@31, you don’t have to go back as far as Rome and Greece for slaves remember. Good god fearing christians held black people in servitude for a few hundred years (often sold by the Muslim aficans to the Europeans by the way!) I don’t remember the church being so anti slavery? And as for church child abuse you can’t get worse than chopping the bits off angelic little choir boys so their voices wouldn’t break! The Church has a lot to apologise for and won’t!

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