We would be foolish to believe anything that David Cameron says these days is anything other than opportunistic propaganda made entirely with the forthcoming election in mind.
We cannot be expected to believe that a political party which has for decades fostered discrimination and hatred towards gay people has suddenly seen the light and come round to entirely the opposite view, all in the space of just a few years. We cannot be expected to believe that exactly the same people who for years were supportive of discrimination against us are sudden converts to the cause of equality for gays and lesbians.
Cameron’s talk is cheap. Action speaks louder than words.
Conservatives have never acted to help equality for gay people and they never ever will.
Tory leader David Cameron has defended his party’s European alliances with the Polish Law and Justice Party but has refused to call them homophobic, saying the Liberal Democrats also have anti-gay allies
well if this is a direct quote, read it, David the clues are there!?!?!
He also lied (twice) about his voting record on equality! See a summary of the interview here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/lets-talk-about-sex-johann-hari-grills-david-cameron-over-gay-rights-1888688.html
Cameron is truly shameless, still refusing to accept that his friends in Europe calling gay people ‘faggots’ and believing most paedophiles are gay is deeply homophobic. This language – and the beliefs that are behind it – is what many of us have experienced in our lives and we do not need politicians supporting fascist, homophobic parties and their bigoted leaders.
Cameron’s position also completely contradicts his apparently fluffy liberalism that he wants to challenge the Church’s homophobia, help gay refugees and challenge homophobic bullying. How? By doing nothing at all; Cameron says no new legislation is needed to support LGBT people. And as we know, the Conservatives can only boast of a history of criminalising LGBT people in Government and resisting any equalities legislation in opposition.
As Cameron himself says, it is far more important to be aligned with homophobes who love the free market than politicians with principles (so basically it is more important to help keep the rich stay rich, and keep the vast majority of working and lower middle class folk poorer). This interview is just David Cameron trying to flirt with LGBT people to get us to pop our electoral cherry for him, while promising us worse than nothing.
He can’t keep sitting on the fence like this. If he thinks the criticism is irritating now, then how on earth would he cope should the tories win the next general election and be in power? If he really wants to portray himself as a strong decisive leader “willing to make tough decisions”, then he should sever links with that bigoted party. That would at least send them a message that being homophobic bigots, will hurt their political aspirations & ties with other european parties.
To use an analogy, if I met someone I liked and thought we’d get on well as friends, only to later discover they were homophobic/racist/sexist, then I would immediately sever any friendship with them, because no matter what other issues I might agree with them, bigotry would be a deal-breaker.
Even more worrying is that should the Tories win then catholic extremist Iain Duncan Smith would be put in charge of families.
He is already campaigning to reduce the rights of non-biological gay parents.
The alliance with the extremist homophobes in Poland is merely 1 strand in a homophobic Tory policy.
Notice how David ‘PR’ Cameron claims that in theory he wants schoolchildren to learn about gay relationships, but in practise the Tories want to increase faith schools and don’t want them to have any commitment to equality.
A vore for the Tories is a vote against LGBT equality. David Cameron is not to be trusted.
Hell when even the LGBTory group cannot even criticise Iain Duncan Smith’s homophobia then you know that the Tories are not to be trusted.
The biggest worry is the low income working class who’ll vote BNP because they don’t feel Labour represent them any more. None of the 3 main parties are electable!
not that i needed one, but another reason never to vote tory
“Michal Kaminski was filmed in 2000 calling gay people “faggots”, while Stanislaw Pieta recently said that most paedophiles are gay.”
David Cameron refused to condemn the comments as homophobic.
Says it all really.
David Cameron is willing to tell any lie on earth in order to get elected.
He is a fawning, insincere liar – a typical Tory public schoolboy who’d sell his own grandmother if he thought it would gain a few votes.
Not good folks! It looks increasingly likely that the Tories will win the next election. Our own Labour ´Equality Minister´ has just taken a position that is anything but pro equality. Basically, the future advancement of gay rights in the UK are fu-ked guys..
I have only two reasons to be thankful.
1) The EU will not let our human rights be eroded too much, and
2) I live in BRAZIL!
“although he added that European conservative parties still had “progress” to make.”
But of course David ‘PR’ Cameron gave absolutely no indication on how the Tories would encourage that progress.
I suppose Attitude didn’t waste their own time asking Cameron if he supported marriage equality when the proposed Minister for families – Mr Iain Duncan Smith is so revoltingly homophobic already.
i don’t believe him and shouldn’t too. i’m polish and i know for sure that polish party PiS is homophobic. cameron tries to show you that black is white.
I’m not a Lib Dem, I’m a Labour kind of a guy, but David Cameron’s statement that the Lib Dems have homophobic allies in Europe is a very annoying lie.
The Lib Dems are a part of a very large European Parliamentary grouping which is almost bound to have some homophobic people, but as it is very large it is really not a case that the Lib Dems are in some sort of alliance with them.
The Conservative Party’s parliamentary grouping, the European Conservatives and Reformists (ECR) is tiny comprising:
Conservative Party 26
Law and Justice 15
Civic Democratic Party 9
In addition there is a small number of individual members.
Because this grouping is tiny and the Polish Law and Justice party are the second largest party it means that the Conservative party has given them a huge boost to their status.
The ECR is chaired by Michal Kaminski who is a notorious homophobe and anti-semite from the Polish Law and Justice party. Michal Kaminski was given this position as chair by the British Conservative Party. As a consequence of his chairing the ECR Michal Kaminski has been made a member of the Conference of Presidents.
The Lib Dems do keep tabs on the activities of the Polish Law and Justice Party and the most recent piece about them written on 21 January 2010 is here. In it they describe:
Twenty seven members of the Conservatives’ European Parliamentary allies, the Polish Law and Justice Party, are yet again targeting gays as they demand a government clampdown on paedophiles.
It is well worth reading as it demonstrates that the Polish Law and Justice Party perceive pedophilia and homosexuality to be codependent.
David Cameron is desperately looking for something to take the heat off the Conservative Party for the amazing dishonesty with statistics by Chris Grayling yesterday.
Thanks Patrick James for a very valuable contribution, above.
Poor Cameron HAS to defend the indefensible. He only got the Tory leadership by selling his soul to the mad Eurosceptic Right in his party. He could only do this by allying himself with crypofascist loonies in Europe. Opportunism and cynicism are like lying – once you start you tend to keep going if you want to hang on to what they give you and maybe get more.
Yet his problems will only get worse in this regard if he becomes PM. His victory will make both his sinister allies in Europe and the Tory Right much bolder and more vociferous and will cause him endless trouble both at home and abroad. All this, together with facing a basket-case economy and an electorate which will want him to soft-pedal the cuts against a party which wants him to slash and burn, is going to leave him in deep doo. I suspect he will be another Ted Heath if he wins. I think Cameron is genuinely sympathetic to lgbt rights, but everything is stacked up against his doing much about them, and, like just about any ambitious politician, he values power more than principles, even if he has them, and even if the power turns out to be ephemeral.
I too am truly angered by the misrepresentaion of the crime figures. If Cameron is prepared to frighten old people on the stump before an election – what else is he capable of? Shocking.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, so now Cameron says that the state cult should get behind FULL equality? So does that mean he’s about to get behind his own statement by introducing a bill to allow us access to marriage for those of us who want it and allow his fellow straights to form a civil partnership if they don’t want to marry? Come on Cameron, grow a backbone and really put some meaning into the word “equality” if you really believe in what you said!
I’ve got a lot of support for David Cameron, but denying this is just not doing him or the Tories any good whatsoever, and he would be better to come clean with these people, rather than skirting round the issue and pissing off an awful lot of potential LGBT voters in the process.
What this country’s politics needs is TRANSPARENCY.
David, you are as clear as mud.
Come on Dave; sort yourself out; you can’t run with the Homophobic “hounds” and excpect the LGBT “Hares” to believe a word you say!
@jacek and @Patrick James agree with both of you
Like Zefrog at comment#3, I recommend the link to the full interview. It is very, very revealing:
Basically, the upshot is, we have the choice of three main party leaders.
Gordon Brown seems to understand equality at an intellectual level but has difficulty at an emotional level. Sadly, this wierd disconnect applies in other areas also and is his fatal flaw as a PM. That and his tribalism.
David Cameron understands equality at a public relations level but when questioned deeper, the whole thing falls to pieces. This lack of substance and tendency to say anything also applies in other areas and is why he would be a dangerous PM. That and his disturbing sense of entitlement.
Nick Clegg actually really understands the issues behind equality and talks about it naturally and with passion. His interview with Hari was a breath of fresh air. I just wish he would replace Trident in collaboration with the French (not the Americans) and build a new fleet of nuclear power stations to keep us going until someone comes up with a better idea for generating baseload power.
What is a boy to do?
After this performance today, at least I know it cannot possibly be Cameron.
What a contemptible little man David Cameron appears in that interview.
Here are some highlights:
1. Rap music is largely to blame for a 40% rise in homophobic assault.
2. Head teachers must be empowered to tackle bullying but no provision needs to be made for homophobic bullying despite the clear evidence that gay children are far more likely to be bullied than straight
3. Cameron believes that Polish extremist Michal Kaminski (who refers to gay people as ‘faggots’ and whose Law and Justice Party keeps linking homosexuality to child abuse) is not homophobic. He cannot explain why this bigot is not homophobic. He just keeps repeating it seemingly under the misapprehension that if he repeats it often enough people will believe it.
4. “”I’m not allied with parties that have views on homophobia or racism that I think are unacceptable.” ”
Senior Law and Justice MP, Stanislaw Pieta, has said: “I’m not saying every gay is a paedophile, but in Britain 43 per cent of paedophiles are gay and they only make up 1 per cent of the population.”
So Cameron believes that this comment is ‘reasonable’ Utterly appalling.
This interview should serve as a warning to any LGBT person thinking of voting Tory
Please did one expect otherwise.Poland has alllways been Homophobic and let religon play a major part in its poltics.
The british government willstand byas normall,espesally asleast one forget that Poland was the reason why the Lisbon Treaty did not get passed even though it violates our European Human Rights.
“Please did one expect otherwise.Poland has alllways been Homophobic and let religon play a major part in its poltics.”
But this statement from the Independent article struck me:
“The veteran gay activist Waldemar Zboralski says: “The Law and Justice Party is by far the most homophobic party in Poland, and Mr Kaminski is the leading symbol of homophobia in this country.”
Yet David Cameron refuses to acknowledge this homophobia.
Can someone please remind me again what the LGBTory group’s attitude towards the alliance between the Toriess and the Law and Justice Party.
Silly me – the LGBTory group don’t have an opinion on this alliance. They’ve obviously been told they are not allowed to have an opinion on it.
“Poland was the reason why the Lisbon Treaty did not get passed”
The Lisbon Treaty did get passed and David ‘PR’ Cameron quickly backpeddled by stating that if the Tories get elected there would be no opt-out from the Lisbon Treaty.
atleast callmedave is speaking to the Queer community. Brown’s Government is to busy stabbing us in the back to speak to us.
As to simon’s point on the lisbon treaty: you do know that callmedave had no option don’t you? If he voices discontent with any aspect of the treaty his party would be ruled illegal. Now what party was it that brought in a treaty that allows this, allows foreign troops on our streets, summery execution for civil disobedience, outlaws strikes and allows anyone who has ever entered the airspace of any european county to be extradited to said country to be prosecuted for things which are legal in their home country and which do not have to have been committed in the country to which they are to be extradited? Oh yes and you’re not granted a Translator during the trial.
“atleast callmedave is speaking to the Queer community. Brown’s Government is to busy stabbing us in the back to speak to us.”
‘Dave’ gave an interview to JOhann Hari of Attitude.
Last month Nick Clegg did the same
The month before Gordon Brown did the same
And I have say that ‘Dave’ comes across as the most insincere, opportuntistic and dishonest of the 3 of them.
He’s not even able to acknowledge that a comparison between homosexuality and child abuse is homophobic
He’s utterly contemptible
“I’m not allied with parties that have views on homophobia or racism THAT I THINK ARE UNACCEPTABLE.”
That’s the sad part.
There are political parties within socially conservative societies, such as Poland’s Democratic Party, that do sign up to the LGBT rights agenda (mainly through the European Liberal Democrat and Reform Party; a counterpoint to the EPP), as there are in many so-called Catholic countries.
It should be noted that the LibDem front bench team has one opponent of gay rights sitting on it, Tim Farron. That being said, I am still a LibDem voter.
The thing is, it’s all too easy to see that what we have with David Cameron is a superficial image in order to win power, vis a vis Tony Blair. Add to that the Tories voting record on human rights and I think we can all see what will happen if a Tory government is returned in May. Minorities, including gay and transgendered people, will suffer. The elderly will suffer. Youth will suffer, well, working class youth anyway. The economy will certainly grow strong again but on the backs of the vulnerable and disenfranchised.
The Conservatives left government last time after privatising the utilities, including water, after ruining British manufacturing in order to “break” the unions, after attempting to turn back the legal tide on gay rights… I won’t go on for space’s sake.
Thing is, there are millions of voters in this country who would suffer direly if Cameron et al were to wrest complete control of the Commons from, what has turned out to be a damp squib of a labour government.
I favour at least a hung parliament with the LibDem’s holding the balance, or a full and unequivocal LibDem victory. We should all bear in mind the Liberal welfare reforms of between 1906-1914. No other party has done as much for the majority of people in this country.
As an addendum to my last post, I’ve just discovered that LibDem MP for Westmorland & Lonsdale, has an intern from Christian Action Research and Education working for him four days a week.
Christian Action Research and Education supported Section 28, along with our old friends, The Christian Institute.
What about the Bigot Beith from Berwick? He was the only LibDem MP to vote to retain the Waddington amendment. It must also be remembered that both he and his wife, Baroness Maddox, both claimed a hefty allowance for the same property – he from the Commons and she from the Lords
the poor should fear the Tories?
The poorest paid workers have seen their tax double, lie detectors introduced for benefit claimants and new claimants are only allowed three months of benefits.
Who should the poor fear?
and neville what about Gordo Broone who didn’t vote for a single piece of Queer Rights legislation until he became PM?
We make much of the Tory’s friends but little of the other parties. Politics is politics and you make strange bed fellows but Labour’s are the strangest such as the Union backed attempt to force everyone without children to work unsociable hours? Wouldn’t that hurt Queers?
Does anyone have any information about the Labour Party’s allies in Europe and their views on homosexuality (or race, or religion)?
Do they have allies in Poland also?
If so, what is their position?
I know this is off-topic but I just thought I’ld let people know: we now have over 13,480 signatures on the Pope Petition!
Email all your friends and ask them to sign.
Labour have been linked to a Polish Party who’s leader demands his workers haver sex with him, former IRA bombers and – hilariously – David Duke, well known White Supremacist:
But I still reckon that Gordon Brown or Nicke Clegg would accept that pretending that 43% of paedophiles are gay (even though gays are allegedly 1% of the population) is revolting and homophobic.
Dave ‘PR’ Cameron thinks it’s acceptable?
I think I’m going to vomit!
and does Gordon Brown agree that there is an international Zionist conspiracy to wipe out the Arian race? After all his allies in Europe seem to think so.
and can I also ask, simon, where Gordo Broone stands on bombing campaigns that target civilians? What about how he stands on the sexual abuse of party workers? The use of violence against protesters?
All these are things HIS European allies agree with.
‘Let he who is without sin’ and all that guff.
But Simon, apparently Gordon does think its okay to jump into bed with a terrorist who murdered six British policemen.
How must they families feel about that I wonder?
Watch out Sister – your criticising a Freedom Fighter (or atleast that’s what we’re told, personally I thought he was a mass murdering thug.)
I think what matters here is that both Labour and the Tories have dodgy friends in Europe. So what? Get over it. Politics is immoral at the best of times
It is important for me to repeat some of an earlier post in this thread.
The Conservative party has created a tiny European grouping called the ECR. This contains three parties one of which is the Polish Law and Justice Party. There are in addition some individual members.
In the European parliament the Labour party is a member of the PES. The PES is a huge group consisting of may parties. There is no doubt that there will be homophobes and others in the PES, but being a member of the PES does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that you have formed an alliance with those parties.
Because the Conservative party’s grouping is tiny it represents a very specific alliance with the parties in it.
Conservatives, like Iain Dale, are trying to pretend that simply by being a member of the PES or the Liberal Democratic group ALDE, it means that you have some special relationship with the other parties in that group but you do not.
The Conservative party has actively advanced Michal Kaminski of the Polish Law and Justice Party in the European Parliament by making him the chair of their group. This places him on the prestigious Conference of Presidents.
The consequences of the Conservative parties actions are that the very homophobic Law and Justice party has had a great boost of status in Poland. The LGBT people in Poland are very vulnerable and desperately need all the help they can get from the other European countries.
The advancement of this homophobic party in Poland by the Conservative party is absolutely reprehensible and shameful. However their actions also put out a clear signal to other homophobic political organisations and parties in Europe that the British Conservative party will deal with them and if need be, advance their interests.
Are the Polish homophoic? In general? I apologize for my ignorance, but I am an American. Based on the comments I’ve been reading I am getting the impression they are. That is disappointing.
homophoic = homophobic. Sorry for the typo.
Just to reiterate:
David ‘PR’ Cameron: “I’m not allied with parties that have views on homophobia or racism that I think are unacceptable.”
So Cameron believes that the fascist bigots of the Law and Justice Party’s views are ‘acceptable’.
And utterly bizarre that gay people on here are defending his contemptible cowardice and stupidity.
David Cameron thinks that homophobia is perfectly acceptable.
That should be crystal clear to anyone who has read the article.
And what have the LGBTory Group got to say about the Polish bigots their party is in alliance with?
Ooops. How could I forget.
They’ve either been told that they’re not allowed to have an opinion; or are waiting for Tory top brass to inform them of what their opinion should be.
That’s the world of David ‘All PR no substance’ Cameron
Simon you’ve got nothing to say on any of this really,. You trot out opinion as though it is fact again and again and again.
Poland isn’t up to the same level of equality in relation to homosexuality politically or socially – FACT!!!
Politicians across all parties in Poland generally have a less tolerate view of homosexuality that British politicians – FACT
The EU functions on the basis that would-be member states have to achieve certain targets before inclusion in the EU and that further work continues after inclusion to align then with EU standards – equality is one of those. The EU is working to ensure parity in Poland and a number of other states.
Can we now maybe look at the Romanian Social Democratic Party? Can you run us through some of the notable events gay-wise in their blazing history of championing equality?
Afterwards can you maybe talk us through their appalling treatment of disabled kids in orphanages and babies with HIV. I know this is a little off topic, BUT it still comes under the broad equalities heading.
But David Cameron thinks that claiming that 43% of paedophiles are gay (despite making up only 1% of the population) is not homophobic?
The LGBT0ry have nothing to say about this?
That is very, very important to emphasise.
but simon does Gordo think that bombing campaigns that target innocent civilians, the murder of police men, holocaust denial, the sexual abuse of party workers, the use of violence against political opponents and the excusing of Russia’s genocidal activities in it’s former satellite states are acceptable?
or how about this from Labour allies from Romania:
This is not an article about Gordon Brown though.
It is an article about David ‘All PR no substance’ Cameron.
It’s a typical Tory ploy to try to divert attention from the matter at hand – namely Tory homophobia and their alliance with even more extreme, borderline fascist homophobes). Let’s stick to the topic at hand – namely the Tory Party and the unresolved issues surrounding their commitment to LGBT rights
Let’s not forget that gay groups in Poland confirm that the Law and Justice Party is by far the most homophobic party in Poland, and Michal Kaminski is the leading symbol of homophobia in Poland. Michal Kaminski refers to gay people as ‘faggots’ and was a guest of honour at the Tory convention this year.
And I cannot understand why David ‘All PR no substance’ Cameron finds this to be acceptable.
Unless of course he agrees with it?
I think we can all agree that David Cameron’s refusal to acknowledge blatant homophobia in their European partners is a matter of grave concern for all LGBT people.
Especially when the Tories themselves haven’t shown any commitment to equality for LGBT people
Or to put it bluntly:
Why does David Cameron think it is acceptable to pretend that 43% of paedophiles are gay.
He point blank refuses to condemn that.
Bear that in mind when it comes to your vote.
Sorry this might appear abit throw away in light of the interesting discusion which had emerged on this thread.
. . . but come on . . . Poland . . . A country that recently became paranoid that one of the Telly Tubbies might be gay, and so launched an investigation in to Tinky winky in case Tinky Winky’s handbag was promoting homosexuality to children.
Poland were – and still are – the laughing stock of Europe.
Simon I have no doubt at all the linkages formed with the Conservative Party and the EU will ensure that through a lengthy and slow process all parties in Poland reform many of their outdated and narrow views on homosexuality, race and disability.
The fact that the Polish Law and Justice Party has taken steps to clarify incorrectly reported statements and information published about them shows that equality issues are starting to factor into their thinking more.
The Labour Party and its trolls have done quite a lot to publish what is wrong with the Conservative allies in Europe diverting the spotlight from the behaviour of their own allies.
As for quoting individuals and suggesting they are speaking for the party, are we to assume that is the case with Miranda Grell, who hounded a gay Lib Dem councillor out of his home with accusations that he was a paedophile not so long ago. Despite the fact that the party funded her failed appeal against conviction and then when twice found to be guilty failed to sack her from the party or her post as an advisor at City Hall, I think most of us would accept they were individually held beliefs irrespective of whether they formed the cornerstone of her election campaign.
There are bad apples (or small minded bigots) in every barrel Simon. Even here …. Simon.
no actually the point is not the nature of Tory alliances in Europe but the way that they are criticised for their allies but Labour do not.
If Cameron automatically agrees with the LAJ party because they are in the same power block then Labour are Holocaust deniers.
If Labour are not Holocaust deniers then the Tories can not be accused of being Homophobic.
If Cameron’s Homophobic then Gordo has committed the offense of Holocaust Denial now we have to ask if this was ever done in a country where this carries a prison sentence for if it did then Gordo is a criminal and needs to stand down from Parliament forth with.
Using a disgustingly Islamophobic pro-Israel* site as a source doesn’t help you. Sorry, but I hate it when people link to thinly-veiled hate sites, even just for one little article. Yeah, that’s all I had to bring to the discussion. The more neutral the source, the better the info.
(*Such a loaded term. Before anyone accuses me of being pro-Palestine, my point is that supporting either terrorist state makes a person a war-monger. It’s not exactly football – to support either side is to support vicious militants with complete disregard for the lives of innocent people.)
forgive me pie, I just liked the picture…
Oh, I’m sorry. I go reading too far into these things. Still, I guess we both learned a lesson about vontroversial sources. ¯\(º_o)/¯
I meant to say concroversial, not vontroversial. Or was it vontrocersial?
‘vontroversial’ – you’ve been thinking too much about the pope’s visit.
Yes he may be a Nazi but he’s a hell of allot less use than Von Braun.
Romania is the subject of a major academic project I am currently pursuing.
The man pictured in the Nazi outfit is Radu Mazare the Romanian Social Democrat mayor of Constanta. Radu Mazare loves to wear costumes at parties etc. Constanta, the town he is the mayor of, is a seaside resort in Romania and very much the party centre of Romania.
In fact Radu Mazare was criticised widely in the Romanian press for wearing that outfit in exactly the same way as Prince Harry was criticised in the UK for wearing a Nazi outfit to a fancy dress party a few years ago. I wonder if theotherone remembers that?
The Romanian Social Democratic party is a member of the PES and any sensible UK party would be proud to have them as allies. In fact, of course, being a member of the PES does not mean that a party is an ally in any sense with the British Labour party which is a member of the PES.
The relationship between the British Conservative party and the Polish Law and Justice party is very much a political alliance as the Conservative party has formed a special tiny group to facilitate this relationship.
The Polish Law and Justice party is a far right political party which is extremely homophobic. This is unusual in Eastern Europe where in fact the vast majority of political parties are central in nature.
The advancement of the Polish Law and Justice party by the British Conservative party in the European Parliament is reprehensible and shameful. The LGBT people in Poland are the primary victims of this. They are very vulnerable and need all the assistance that they can get from other European states.
I know that perhaps being concerned for LGBT people in other countries might be alien to theotherone but maybe if he/she were living in Poland he/she might see this a different way.
The special relationship between the British Conservative Party and the Polish Law and Justice party is also damaging to the image and reputation of the UK throughout Europe and the rest of the world.
David in Indy writes:
Are the Polish homophobic? In general? I apologize for my ignorance, but I am an American. Based on the comments I’ve been reading I am getting the impression they are. That is disappointing.
Hi David, presumably you are in Indiana.
The Polish are not homophobic in general but Poland is dominated by the Catholic church in much the same way that Ireland is dominated by the church.
The Polish Law and Justice Party is a far right political party which has managed to become very large in Poland because it advances the cause of the Catholic church in Poland.
In the post war years the Polish are in no way particularly prone to supporting far right parties any more than any other nation in Europe.
Of the far right European parties the Law and Justice party in Poland have been very adept at rebranding very right wing views in softer language. They are much more skilled at presentation than other far right parties.
The British Conservative party has given the Law and Justice party a massive boost in status by creating a small European Parliamentary grouping called the ECR. Aside from advancing the cause of homophobia in Poland the British Conservative party is also saying to the other extreme rightwing parties in Europe that they are acceptable company, in fact, the message from the British Conservative party to the extreme right is that all they have to do is clean up their presentation a bit and they will then be acceptable as friends.
Throughout Europe this activity by the Conservative party is viewed as absolutely reprehensible by the European centre right and of course the European centre left.
In the UK discussion about European affairs does not enter the popular press, rather it is something for the tabloids, so David Cameron clearly feels that he can get away with this astonishing duplicity, of adopting apparently progressive language but advancing the cause of the far right.
I meant to write:
“In the UK discussion about European affairs does not enter the popular press, rather it is something for the broadsheets“
polish parties are centralist? The one Labour is allied to is headed by an individual linked to David Duke; an anti-semitic holocaust denier who sexually abuses party workers and uses violence against opponents. Centralist? Don’t make me laugh.
If Labour team up with reprehensible characters it’s not a problem but if the Tories do it then it is. double standards anyone?
As to the Romanian Social Democrat Party: proud to have them as partners? Would that be for their attempts to ruthlessly suppress the press? Or what about their harboring of former Communist Party officials? Their attempts to derail corruption charges against their members? Their homophobic election campaign of 2004? Their outspoken opposition to Same Sex Unions? Which of these points are the ones that should make Labour proud to have them as partners and indeed when will Labour critisise them, call them Homophobes?
‘The Polish are not homophobic’
—I’ll have to tell my Polish friends that, they’ll find it hilarious.
There are two Polands: the progressive Poland that gave us a huge amount of fine 19th and 20th century art and the Poland which is dominant in Polish life the Poland of homophobia, misogyny and fascist posturing.
If you ask Polish people they will tell you that Poland will not accept Homosexuality particularly Male homosexuality. The ‘punishment’ for Lesbians is often rape.
Ask Polish people how accepting Poland is of Homosexuality. Go on, I dare you.
Polish people don’t go for extremist politics? Not the older generations, the ones still scared by their parent’s experience of the German war machine but the younger ones? You regularly see gangs of Polish Bone Heads. Perhaps I’m hallucinating?
Sister Mary clarence writes:
This is ignorant and idiotic.
In general political parties in Poland do not have “outdated and narrow views on homosexuality, race and disability”.
It is the Law and Justice party which has extremely homophobic views.
The Conservative party is not engaged in some process to “educate” the Law and Justice party.
Have you read anything on this subject?
It illustrates that they know about presentation. All evidence from Poland, from LGBT groups in Poland as well as LGBT people indicates very strongly indeed that the Law and Justice party is deeply homophobic.
You write about “incorrectly reported statements”, but these “statements” are the filmed and reported activities of the Polish Law and Justice party.
The Labour party has not created allies in Europe in the way that the Conservative party has done.
First I noticed that theotherone doesn’t respond to the key points I’ve made.
I wrote that in general Poland is not a homophobic society and this is true.
I do have Polish friends, I don’t think theotherone has friends Polish or otherwise :)
theotherone knows nothing about either Polish politics or Romanian politics. It is not my role to educate him. He’s been “googling” to pick up many misunderstandings. In much the way that his googling produced the image of Radu Mazare in fancy dress which he mistook as a political statement :).
I wonder though, how it feels to be like theotherone?
Trying to whitewash the extreme homophobic Polish Law and Justice party?
Looking the other way while the Conservative party advances the Law and Justice party in this way?
The LGBT people in Poland are very vulnerable. They need all the help they can get from the other European states.
Re post #62: Thank you Patrick James for your informative and well written response. I appreciate it. It never occurred to me that the Catholic Church would play a role in this, and as a former Catholic myself, I realize how homophobic the Catholic Church really is. Also it sounds like there is quite a bit of political criss cross involved. It seems very complicated. There are many different elements and angles involved.
Yes, I am in Indiana. I live in Indianapolis. We have some Polish immigrants here, and they have always been very warm and friendly to me. So you can understand why this particular article caught my eye. Although, I have never professed my sexuality to any of them. Perhaps I should to see what kind of reaction I’d be met with. Thanks again Patrick James. I appreciate your taking the time to explain it all to me.
Let me respond directly to your posting #67 Patrick (I know how testy you get if people don’t)
Point 1 – this is exactly what happens. There is often debate about why countries are allowed to remaining in the EU when they have a poor record in one area of another. The EU is aware that the benefits membership offers these countries is a carrot to use as leverage to bring about change. It is nothing new in politics.
Point 2 – I see you’ve narrowed the field here from homosexuality, race and disability to homosexuality alone. Equality is broader than sexuality and it irritates me hugely when people try to narrow it down to one element of equality to further their ‘gay victim’ mentality. Many people across the whole social spectrum have views that most people in this country would consider antiquated. You are singling out individuals and identifying their views as the views of an organisation. We can all do that (re Miranda Grell) by there isn’t any basis for doing so so its just hot air.
Point 3 – yes it does illustrate that they know about presentation. They are now aware that eyes are on them from the European stage and they must comply with the expectations that such a position requires. If people in positions of influence stop making statements against gay people that has a ripple effect across society (stopping murder music works on this basis for example).
Point 4 – you’re right activities have been filmed and reported. Some of them filmed and reported many years ago in fact. Some of the translation has been questioned. Some of the details of the events looked into more closely and found not to be exactly as reported. So black and white starting to look a bit more grey. In any event though, pressure from the EU and peer support from the Tories will over time ensure that there are many fewer occasions where they even enter into the grey.
Point 5 – completely subjective. Labour have jumped into bed with some extremely unsavoury allies and it beggars belief that Labour trolls can come on here and make such denials. (Ok let me qualify that last statement – it SHOULD beggar belief BUT its actually just par for the course).
funny I thought I’d pointed out just how Homophobic Poland is, how horrified I am by the degree to which extremist politics have taken over Polish life.
Ofcorse I know nothing about Poland or Polish life, of corse not. That’s why I’ve attempted to amerce myself in Polish art and culture to understand the interior lifes of those coming to our shores and in the process have found a new favorite film director in the shape of Walerian Borowczyk (though he’s a bit strong for most tastes and a large number of Polish people are less than happy of you name him as one of their great directors.)
Poland’s not homophobic because you have Polish friends who are not Homophobic? I have Polish friends who are not Homophobic too but they will haply tell you just how happy they where to get out of Poland to escape it’s oppressive atmosphere. The same people are terrified of the ‘second wave’ of Polish workers who where represent the very Poland they tried to escape.
I have no interest in ‘white washing’ the LAJ Party but I have no interest in lying about Polish life either, you are.
And as I stated to another poster: the picture I posted was posted as it was funny. A political statement? You are making one by lying about Polish life and the belief systems of the Second Wave of Polish immigrants to the UK. You don’t give a toss about Queer rights in Poland or any other country in Europe if it impacts on you Liberal bvllsh1t outlook even when the truth is right in front of you.
but sister; if we don’t have Victim status then we may have to make decisions about our lifes.
Wouldn’t want that…
“I have Polish friends who are not Homophobic too but they will haply tell you just how happy they where to get out of Poland to escape it’s oppressive atmosphere.”
theotherone – its unlikely that we have the same friends, but my Polish friends say pretty much the same thing
Fascinating our Sister Mary Clarence and Theotherone are so easily able to proclaim that they each have a host of Polish friends. Theotherone says she’s a transexual and Sister Mary Clarence says she’s black so I’m sceptical that your average Catholic-indoctrinated narrow-minded straight-down-the-line innocent white little Stefan from Poland is so eager to be friends with either.
Unless, of course, they’re lying. I think they are.
whatever peter, you obviously know nothing about Poland or Polish people or, indeed, the Polish Underground.
Ofcorse I’m lying, ofcorse Sister is lying but interestingly you seem to think that no Polish people will speak to us so therefore Polish people are Homophobic.
oh and Peter: you obviously think Poland is all farmland and Catholic churches.
What an insulting, Western way of looking at the world.
Polish record labels:
A little taste of the Polish Underground for you.
Euugh – so the usual suspects are out here in force – ooh dearie me – David Cameron once spoke to a Polish politician, clearly that makes him Satan!
Cameron may not be perfect, what politician is, but it is important to remember that whatever the downside, he is not the walking, talking piece of human excrement that is Gordon Brown.
Hate the conservatives all you want but they will still be 1,000 times more acceptable than the depraved pile of steaming ordure that is the Labour party – 100% scum (Apart from Clare Short who I quite like).
“and Sister Mary Clarence says she’s black so I’m sceptical that your average Catholic-indoctrinated narrow-minded straight-down-the-line innocent white little Stefan from Poland is so eager to be friends with either.”
I think that statement Peter is more a reflection of your own racism rather than anyone else’s
Vulpus – Cameron is allied to homophobes, that’s why so many are condemning him
Chester – so are Labour – can’t hear many people condemning then though
not just homophobes sister but anti-Semites, holocaust deniers, mass murders and former Communist Party Officials.
A case of the pot calling the kettle black arse if ever I saw one.
Well stupid us, theotherone, for imagining that they’re anything like each other then.
Labour’s situation with its allies is CLEARLY nothing like the Conservatives!!!!!!!!!!
I think you forgot racist as well by the way, but of course none of those count on here to they – they could be boiling babies as long as the babies weren’t gay.
no sister: the babies can be Gay as long as the Boilers support Labour then the boiling is for a good reason.
show me proof sister mary
chester, to quote my own post:
Romanian Social Democrat Party: proud to have them as partners? Would that be for their attempts to ruthlessly suppress the press? Or what about their harboring of former Communist Party officials? Their attempts to derail corruption charges against their members? Their homophobic election campaign of 2004? Their outspoken opposition to Same Sex Unions? Which of these points are the ones that should make Labour proud to have them as partners and indeed when will Labour critisise them, call them Homophobes?
You’ve got the names of Labour’s allies in Europe, Chester, go look up for yourself.
theotherone: “If you ask Polish people they will tell you that Poland will not accept Homosexuality particularly Male homosexuality. The ‘punishment’ for Lesbians is often rape.”
Interesting that you accused me of racism when I said the same about Afro-Carribean people. Oh sorry. I forgot, Poles are all WHITE.
oh fvck off RobN, the Big Kids are playing round here.