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Harriet Harman will not continue fight over gay church staff

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  1. Good-for-nothing, weak-minded woman of few principles that she is. Appals me, but doesn’t surprise me.

  2. It seems like, and will be portrayed as, a victory for the Catholic Church. I had thought that the Labour Government was supposed to champion minority views…oh no…hang on..there’s an election coming.

    (Ironic that the two security words I have to type to add this to the comments are “him” and “kebab.” Who’s been skewered now?

  3. Typical!

  4. so she chickens out and a Nicholls shows his homophobia
    so much for equality

  5. rarther than just moaning why not do what i have done and rounded up friends to email protests to her and other Labour MP’s and the press- Labour hate bad publicity and we can use this fear to highlight the issue

  6. Simon Murphy 3 Feb 2010, 12:25pm

    Her email address is harmanh@parliament.uk

    I will write to her to ask her what she is going to do to ensure that not a single penny of my tax money is allotted to bigotted churches.

    I think you all should also.

  7. Vincent Poffley 3 Feb 2010, 12:29pm

    Religion should be treated in exactly the same way as masturbation by our society. It feels good for those who do it and there should be no opprobrium attached to the practice of it. But it should be considered extremely distasteful if done in public and an obsessive commitment to it should in no way be a condition for high office or grant the practitioner special privileged dispensation to ignore the laws of the land.

  8. Simon Murphy 3 Feb 2010, 12:35pm

    To: harmanh@parliament.uk
    Subject: Shame on you for your cowardice over Equality Bill

    Dear Harriet Harman

    I wish to condemn your spineless, contemptible, despicable climbdown over the Equality Bill.

    Effectively you are saying that religious groups who receive state funding are allowed to discriminate against gay and lesbian people in employment.

    You are a disgrace. An embarrassment to your ministry and an embarrassment to your party.

    Effectively we now have an Minister for Equality who approves of discrimination against a tax-paying, law-abiding minority group.

    Please confirm that any religious organisation who discriminates against a gay employee will not be receiving a single penny of tax-payers money. I do not want my tax money to fund discrimination against people, based on their sexual orientation.

    Please also confirm that not a penny of taxpayers money will be wasted on Josef Ratzinger’s visit to Britain in September. Why should gay taxpayers have to fund the presence of a hatemonger in our country.

    You are a national embarrassment.

    Shame on you and your disgusting cowardice

    Yours sincerely

  9. Thanks Simon, I’ve just cut and pasted your letter!

    I now have to type anything aerobics.

  10. I don’t think it’s Harriet Harman who’s responsible for this surrender. I reckon Brown is behind it, he is, after all, the idiot who invited this pope over for a visit. I’ve already emailed my Labour MP and asked him to thank Brown for stabbing us all in the back.

  11. Simon Murphy 3 Feb 2010, 12:51pm

    Well by all means contact Gordon Brown to express your disgust as well.

    He can be reached at:

    https://email.number10.gov.uk/Contact.aspx

    You get an automated email response from that and you need to click a link inside to confirm your message gets sent.

  12. I was born in Italy and one of the reasons I left is the incessant interfering by the Vatican in all political matters which keeps the country in a state of social backwardness. It’s sad to realise that I just can’t seem to be able to get away from these people. Today’s decision by the British government is very disappointing and, by the way, I will most definitely be at the demonstration against the pope’s visit.

  13. Bash 'em hard 3 Feb 2010, 1:10pm

    .

    To Simon Murphy from Gordon Brown and Harriet Harman.

    GET STUFFED!

    .

  14. Thanks, Simon, did that though I doubt he’ll ever see it. I think maybe pressure from his MPs will do more.

  15. The Halcyon 3 Feb 2010, 1:25pm

    Playing devil’s advocate – if Harman had stuck to her guns, the Equality Bill would have yo-yo’d back and forth in the Lords and never would be within a chance of gaining assent before Parliament is dissolved so everyone affected by the proposals in the Equality Bill would get nothing rather than something.

    I am disappointed that there is no grand showdown with the Roman Catholic Church (I’d love to see women Priests appointed – that’d really be one in the eye for Widdecombe and Gummer) but actually, the total effect of the climbdown is neglible. How many gay muslims would want to become an Imam for example?

    There are already legal protections in the 2003 Employment Regulations on Sexual Orientation and a religious-backed organisation has to provide some damn good reasons as to why they won’t employ a LGB person or why they sacked them on the grounds of sexual orientation. The excuse of “it’s against our religion” just won’t pass muster.

    Heck, if people really feel that strongly, we should all get jobs with religious organisations, announce our sexual preferences, all get sacked and then sue them into bankruptcy en masse.

  16. The intent was clarify scope of previous Act 2003. To be honest, I’ve read relevant sections of both. This kind of wording such as “proportionate means, conflict, complying with doctrines, significant number” all needs to be tested in court and a certain type of case (e.g. youth worker discrimination) would need to be brought.

    It is so disappointing that Harriet backed down. Not because of the Pope but to avoid a hold up of this Bill before the election. We are the sacrifical lambs.

    Simon Murphy etc who wrote to Ms. harman. If I got that letter in any walk of life, in whatever capacity I’d bin it immediately. Get your point across without resort to personal attack. Remember its not about the anger we feel personally but making your point effectively. You’ve wasted your time there.

  17. Mihangel apYrs 3 Feb 2010, 1:58pm

    would she – they have retreated so quickly had it been to do with women’s rights

  18. so we have thrown in the towel to the views of the arch Homophobe of Rome? Shame on the Govt! we are nOT ruled by Rome anymore and he has no rights to voice his hatred in our nation!

  19. andrew flynn 3 Feb 2010, 3:01pm

    Unbelievable! Everybody is equal, but some are more equal than others

  20. Simon Murphy 3 Feb 2010, 3:15pm

    No 16: Paul Mc: You say: “Simon Murphy etc who wrote to Ms. harman. If I got that letter in any walk of life, in whatever capacity I’d bin it immediately. Get your point across without resort to personal attack. ”

    Where is the personal attack in my letter? I can’t see it.

    I do not attack Harriet Harman as an individual. I took special care not to engage in personal insult. I am attacking the Ministry of Equality which is going to ignore a clear inequality for its personal convenience.

    It is not personal to refer to a so-called Minister for Equality who is actually going to ignore inequality as spineless and contemptible.

    It’s not mean if it’s true.

    And it’s not personal if it is referring to her office (but not her individually).

  21. That’s labour for you folks!

  22. Sister Mary clarence 3 Feb 2010, 3:34pm

    “Where is the personal attack in my letter? I can’t see it.”

    Unfortunately that’s probably true Simon.

    If I got a letter from you I’d bin it too.

  23. @Simon M. Personal? Oh let’s say ‘shame on you and your disgusting cowardice’. Not an expression of your deeply held feelings and disappointment but just nasty. And highly personal. Your sentiments are right but this letter is a waste of effort. It’s a numbers game. If she gets letters of disapproval they’ll count. Personal attacks will get binned or count against. I’m just saying.

  24. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 3:38pm

    indeed it is Labour Paul.

    Dear Miss Harman,

    It is with regret that I write this email to you, regret after finding that you have allowed religious groups to discriminate against Queer people with youir decision to not continue implementing The Equality Bill.

    As Minister For Equality you are effectively saying that some members of British Society are more equal than others and that Religious Belief trumps not only British but European law.

    I urge you to reconsider this decision.

    Yours,

  25. Christine Rourke 3 Feb 2010, 3:38pm

    My letter to the cow.
    Ms Harman.

    I am a male-to-female transsexual, currently transitioning.

    I am writing to you to express my outrage at your pathetic climbdown in the face of pressure from those churches who wish to have exemptions in regard to LGBT employment rights, in the forthcoming Equality Bill.

    There is NO logical or moral reason to exclude those religious organisations from such employment law, and you KNOW it.

    You have sold us down the river.

    So much for Equality.

    So much for your “principles”.

    Let us just hope that the EU hammer this gutless government for it.

    LGBT voters certainly will

    Mine is one more vote you and New Labour can kiss goodbye.

    Yours sincerely,
    Christine Rourke

  26. Equality minister under labour is meaningless as they don’t seek equality

  27. Simon Murphy 3 Feb 2010, 3:44pm

    Paul Mc – how can a statement of fact be nasty. The Minister for Equality IS spineless and pathetic. The clue is in her job title.

    She claims to be the Minister for Equality but does not have the backbone to support equality. She absolutely deserves to be called on it in the strongest terms.

    As for Mary Clarence – well she’s a Tory so has probably written to Harman telling her she’ll be welcome in the Tories as her agenda of inequality is perfectly in line with the Tory agenda of inequality.

  28. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 3:50pm

    the point, simon, is that you have to be civil and moderate in your response to what she’s done not abusive or your email will not be taken seriously.

  29. Is it true that Sister Mary, I have a nice job, nice, car, nice house, Clarence refers to Iain Duncan Smith as Massa?

  30. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 4:00pm

    racism again neville? You’re an idiot.

  31. Simon Murphy 3 Feb 2010, 4:06pm

    No 28: Theotherone: “the point, simon, is that you have to be civil and moderate in your response to what she’s done not abusive or your email will not be taken seriously. ”

    Fair enough. But I think my response was perfectly fair and reasonable in the circumstances.

    In any case Harriet Harman isn’t going to read it. One of her staff possibly will.

    And it is a good idea to let them know that giving into religious bigotry such as that espoused by Ratzi the Nazi is going to mean that his visit in September will be a security nightmare (and to let them know that we expect the Nazi to pay for his own security himself).

    Make no mistake – the religious people regard the governments miserable cowardice a victory. They need to realise that their appeasement of religious facism will lead to a very negative backlash.

  32. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 4:08pm

    I understand Simon but I said the same to her in more moderate tones (se my email above) and therefore my email can not be binned due to being ‘abusive’ or ‘ranting.’

    It’s all about getting the tone right.

  33. Christine Rourke 3 Feb 2010, 4:09pm

    Well, if the information I’ve just had is correct, even though this has been dropped from the Equality Bill, there is another way of winning this.

    All it needs is for a case involving this issue to make it as far as the European Court of Human Rights, and for that court to find against whichever church is cited. At which point UK law will be over-ridden in favour of EU law, and that then stands. The UK has not, so I understand, negotiated any opt-outs for that area of Employment and HR law.

    So what we need is a test case and the will and money to take it all the way to the European Court.

    Just a thought.
    chrissie

  34. @Simon – I wouldn’t be sure your letter will be read by anyone. I wouldn’t after the first line. You may get a standard reply “harriett has read your letter blah blah blah” but it will not actually influence anything but the recycling at Westrminster. This isn’t about you personally – I don’t know you. But I your kind of letter is counter productive. Just google effective lobbying uk letter and there are loads of examples. All of which (I looked at two) will mention being respectful and courteous or risk being counter productive. It’s not me saying this and its not about you unless you are personally within the scope of the amendments passed.

  35. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 4:16pm

    but christine: Europe has already threatened the government with prosecution over this and they’ve decided to go against Europe just like they did with the NHS Spine, just like they did with ID Cards, just like they did with the DNA Database.

    This government is in breach of European Human Rights law on several counts and they don’t give a flying monkey.

  36. This is disappointing, but lets look at hard facts.

    The Equality Bill was essentially a tidying up Bill bringing together many other pieces of legislation. The danger of such bills is that they run the risk of losing some hard fought gains in previous legislation. This did not happen here – the law is exactly the same as it was before. There are the same restrictions applied to religious bodies in employment practice as there were before. The Bill as drafted was not reducing their exemptions – merely clarifying those exemptions.

    At some point decisions have to be made to move on or risk losing the whole Equality Bill. That is what Harman has done.

    However the churches try to dress this up as concern for their own freedoms they continually scare-monger. The vast majority of people see through it, and see it for what it is – another mean spirited attempt by the churches to stand in the way of equality legislation. The Churches are the real losers here as they continue to put off even more people who are deciding en masse to have nothing to do with them.

  37. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 4:33pm

    oh well that’s alright john – it looks like a stab in the back, it feels like I’ve got a knife in my back but they’re actually helping us.

    Yea fvck1ng right.

  38. So, when the European Court of Human Rights rules against the UK and levies a hefty fine …. will Harriet Harman and the Church of England Bishops who supported that disgraceful vote on the House of Lords be paying it, or do UK taxpayers have to fork out because a politician is spineless and clerics are blinkered and biased?

  39. Christine Rourke 3 Feb 2010, 5:01pm

    That’s true up to a point, theotherone… Yes, in those areas the EU (in most cases the Commission) has “advised” that certain aspects of UK government POLICY might well be in breach of EU law.

    However this is not a matter of government policy, but law, and the interpretation of that law is made by the UK courts and NOT by the government.

    As I understand it, in cases where there is a judgement by the European Court or ECHR that happens to over-rule UK law, UK judges in future have to abide by the EU court ruling. It’s actually out of the government’s hands by then. The EU judgement will have to be abdided by in UK courts.

    I expect that is pretty much what this government is relying on. It gets them off the hook with the churches, and if in the future a church ends up with a judgement against it in Europe over this issue, the government can say wash it’s hands of the affair and say “Nuffin’ to do with me, guv’nor. It’s that beastly EU again”

    chrissie

  40. Christine Rourke 3 Feb 2010, 5:03pm

    “its”, not “it’s”…. doh!!

    chrissie
    ps, the captcha code for this was “Government tentacle”!!!
    How fitting.

  41. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 5:09pm

    I’d have to research that christine but the ECHM has ruled against the UK government on at least two of the issues i mentioned (namely ID cards and the DNA database) and the government continues to flout the law leading to further costs being incurred as we’re dragged through the courts by Europe which are paid by us so that we can be discriminated against.

  42. Well i thought back in december last year that the government had been warned about this issue By the EU saying that the government must insure protections cover LGBT in this area of the new law?

    They also stated they would give the UK government 2 months to respond other wise action will be taken against the UK government

  43. Jesus, we have some passive wa*kers on these pages fearful and frightened of showing ANGER! There is NOTHING wrong with demonstrating ANGER when ANGER is what you justifiably feel! Thus there is nothing wrong with telling Harriet Harman that she has now exhibited herself as lacking in integrity, that she has demonstrated despicable cowardice.

    Call a spade, a fu*king spade! And don’t be frightened of doing so.

    Jesus, the British make me sick sometimes. Flaccid, gutless, and fearful of standing up and shouting “NO!”

    Must be sweet, must be nice, mustn’t grumble? It is USELESS sending letters like the following:

    Dear Ms. Harmon,

    Forgive me but I don’t think that in this particular case you have done the right thing. I know you’re a good and wonderful person and I admire you enormously but on this particular occasion I am a little disappointed in the action you have taken.

    Please forgive me for having to speak so strongly about how I feel.

    Yours sincerel,
    Little gutless Brit.

  44. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 5:53pm

    action we will pay for through our taxes – we pay to be second class citizens.

  45. Harman did the right thing to back down. Gay / Lesbians have enough rights now. People are fed up being lectured by this government.

  46. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 6:00pm

    yea sally and I’m sure you wander the streets shouting expletives at passers by. When you’ve had a little experience of lobbying and letter writing you realise that abuse gets you nowhere.

  47. Sorry, theotherone. Will try harder to be good little gutless Brit and write sweet little letters that cause absolutely no one to realise that there is ANGER and very strong feeling and that they had better think twice.

    Sorry,
    Little Gutless Brit.

  48. theotherone
    Sally

    Got passed the angry stage! Been fighting for over 40 years and conserving my energy for further battles.

  49. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 6:09pm

    go away sally, there are grown ups here.

    you know I’ve been on the wrong end of police surveillance, been involved in more Anarchist groups than you could throw a stick at, helped organise three large scale Women’s events and formed links between support groups and the wider community so I think I’ve got some experence of pushing doors open.

  50. Theotherone, Bobby Sands demonstrated what it takes to move the British establishment . . . but you wouldn’t be having any of that, would you! Too dirty, not nace, too angry, too loud, too much, too dramatic. Must be nace, must be held-back, thoroughly reserved: a good gutless little Brit, “so laid back, you’re almost horizontal”.

  51. theotherone, hey, good, there you go, you’re getting angry! Now what you’ve written there is more like what you should be putting in your letters. MPs are only people, you know, just like you and me. Talk to them the same way you talk to people here. They aren’t robots. They snigger at the ineffective polite letters that you have suggested should be written.

  52. Sad to read that as always, the government of the day bends over to kiss the Pope’s arse.

  53. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 6:15pm

    bobby sands? I’ve to take instruction on how to lobby from a terrorist? Throughout my activist career I refused to give my support to any group that condoned violence.

    Now as you comment much on people being ‘brits’ I assume that you’re not yourself from Britain? You wouldn’t then remember the IRA (and Unionist) atrocities otherwise you would be less eager to use the example of a terrorist.

  54. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 6:17pm

    ‘They snigger at the ineffective polite letters that you have suggested should be written.’ and they throw away and disregard ones that they can label as abusive or unhinged.

  55. theotherone, I think Sally’s talking about someone with sufficient conviction to show totally justifiable anger by taking massive action. And by the way Bobby Sands and the others who died after him by starving themselves to death DID in the end cause Westminster to revise its attitude towards the Northern Irish problem. Freedom fighters aren’t terrorists.

  56. You are all shouting about nowt.
    Save your energies and please stop, at least, shouting at each other.
    He will be coming here; it is a done deal; as in, since when did this bunch of prats at no.10 listen to its voters..?

    Just make sure that he sees along the route much mooning and hears Lily Allen’s “Ckuff you, ckuff you very, very mu-u-u-u-ch.”
    Keith.

  57. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 6:24pm

    a terrorist is someone who kills for their beliefs therefore the IRA where terrorists I should know I was spoonfed IRA propaganda as a child in my nice, respectable Catholic family that laughed when innocent people where blown up.

    Would you defend the 9/11 bombers or the 7/7 bombers?

  58. Theotherone, why don’t you stop and THINK!

    Imagine you are an MP. And imagine you get 50,000 absolutely stinking abusive letters from angry constituents. And imagine when you step outside your front door you feel they are going to lynch you because they are there and they are so angry. You are going to do more than just take note. You are going to quickly reconsider your actions.

    But 50,000 gutless little letters? Waste of paper. Full stop.

  59. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 6:27pm

    boby sands, your romantic hero carried hand guns and planted explosives. He killed innocent people:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Sands

  60. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 6:29pm

    and why don’t you live in the real world: these people have constant police protection, cars to and from their place of work, they buy their shopping in parliament.

    They don’t give a toss what people think unless it may mean they will loose their seat.

  61. theotherone, please direct your anger and your disagreement towards those who have invited the old goat of Rome to these shores. write whatever kind of letter you want to, but WRITE . . . and please get everyone you know to write (in whatever way they like just so long as they write)

  62. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 6:31pm

    a reaction to your here’s death I can’t help but agree with:

    The Chicago Tribune wrote that “Mahatma Gandhi used the hunger strike to move his countrymen to abstain from fratricide. Bobby Sands’ deliberate slow suicide is intended to precipitate civil war. The former deserved veneration and influence. The latter would be viewed, in a reasonable world, not as a charismatic martyr but as a fanatical suicide, whose regrettable death provides no sufficient occasion for killing others.

  63. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 6:33pm

    you ask me to direct my anger? Will you be doing the same Sally? You seem intent on attacking myself when I’m on the same side as you.

  64. Ah yes, bobby sands, the great irish hero, involved in bombings and shootings, on whose death people were murdered, whose death was the main contributor to the hardening of extremest opinion on both side of the political divide, whose organisation was up to its neck in drug running, protection racketeering, smuggling, bank robbery and kidnapping. Let’s not mention the murder of innocents both in Northern Ireland and in mainland Britain. The bodies of some of them still not recovered. And you want to hold up scum like that as an example of how to move the government. P1ss off

  65. If they’re afraid of a clash during the visit by the Head of the Vatican City State, why not just cancel the visit.
    They should do so anyway unless and until until the current pope declares ex cathedra that Pius V’s excommunication of Elizabeth I was invalid.

  66. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 6:37pm

    I can’t help but agree with you angie, i agree with every word you say.

  67. There’s a world of difference between displaying anger which will be translated into effective action and losing control and being abusive. If you can’t very clearly demonstrate your fury without losing control and tipping into abuse, you’re not only ineffective, you’ve lost before you’ve even begun.

  68. How about some boys and girls just cut the sniping here and get emailing emailing emailing, pronto, huh?

    There’s plenty to be writing about: Harman’s about-turn and that old fool from Rome.

    And then once the emailing is done, start thinking about imaginative ways of presenting yourself at the protest against the old fool once he’s here.

  69. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 6:47pm

    you could turn up in a dress but you would just look like the cardinals.

  70. Sister Mary clarence 3 Feb 2010, 6:50pm

    “And by the way Bobby Sands and the others who died after him by starving themselves to death DID in the end cause Westminster to revise its attitude towards the Northern Irish problem.”

    That must be some comfort to all those who died at the hands of terrorists in Northern Ireland. Perhaps you wouldn’t be quite so glib about it if your kiddie had lost an arm as a result.

    ‘Freedom fighters aren’t terrorists’ – no but people who blow other people up with car bombs when they are out shopping or having a drink of an evening in a pub are.

    ‘Imagine you are an MP. And imagine you get 50,000 absolutely stinking abusive letters from angry constituents’

    The point is Sally that they won’t. The Equalities Bill isn’t exactly hot news of 99% of the population. It brings together existing legislation (which is actually still there, is it not?).

    It ain’t going to spark a revolution if the courts have to look in one place rather than another for a piece of legislation that protects us.

    I am entirely with theotherone in believing that being civil when you are complaining about the inequality will get a lot further than all this shouty, shouty man the barricades cr@p

  71. I agree with Eddy. It’s important to write and to start thinking about protesting against the pope. And it’s also important to think about the incredible effect that the Stonewall RIOT had, on the extraordinary effect that the ACT-UP demonstrations had, and on the massive and beneficial effects that Peter Tatchell’s organization OUTRAGE has had. The evidence is there to see. We mustn’t shirk or shrink from showing our anger in a very strong way when it’s called for.

  72. weaklingvcowardly defender of bigtry and inequality. i hope the eu reams the govt for refusing to follow the law.

  73. But John G some girls might ladder their stockings getting involved in things like that! LOL! (And some “butch men” might get their hair slightly out of place! LOL!)

  74. I have never thought she was a large supporter of LGBT rights in the first place

    But as I said in my previous post
    The EU last year issued a firm warning to the British Government about this new equlaity law they stated that LGBT rights and safeguards must comply with EU regulations on equlaity

    The EU made a firm warning of this and stated that action would be taken if the government failed to respond

    I agree protest must be done and is the only real way of getting our point across to these homophobes

    I would also contact peter tatchell send your views and let him know how strong you feel about this he will listen

    Also flood your local Labour MP`s with complaints about this and Miss Harman herself LET THEM HEAR YOUR VOICE

    Don`t just sit back and do nothing pull together and let them know that the LGBT people will NOT stand for this 2nd class status ever again.

  75. Mumbo Jumbo 3 Feb 2010, 7:38pm

    If you want something to send you totally over the edge today, get a stiff drink and read this from “out and proud gay man” Andrew Pierce writing on this subject in his first column for the Daily Mail.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1248110/ANDREW-PIERCE-Why-I-gay-man-agree-Pope–Harriet-Harmans-equality-mania-promotes-intolerance.html

    Sadly predictable – but I still actually want to be sick.

  76. Yet Nicholls is reportedly a closet gay man himself – just like the pope. It’s time for Peter Tatchell to open a few dossiers if not closets.

  77. We are facing an election in only a few weeks time and, given the objections of the bishops in the House of Lords, this seems the only practical thing Ms Harman could do. Am I happy about this? No I most certainly am not – however if the law is to pass in a short period of time she has to give way on something. If, as widely predicted, the Tories win the next election, we will not see the chance of this happening again for another generation. I feel really sad that this woman, who has been committed to equality over the years, could be the subject of such abuse in these forums.

  78. theotherone 3 Feb 2010, 8:46pm

    so she stabs us in the back and we THANK her? How passive can we be?

  79. MumboJumbo, thanks for that link to the article by Andrew Pierce in The Daily Hate. Andrew Pierce is a poor deluded gay man who has no concept of how much he has benefited from pro-gay legislation and advances that have been hard-won. Sucking up to the Daily Hate readership, he is an embarrassment and a shame to us all.

  80. Type the two words: 3 Feb 2010, 9:24pm

    http://recaptcha.net/

    Pope Hitler youth

    Pope ‘obstructed’ sex abuse inquiry

    Germany Jesuit head apologises for child sex abuse
    The head of a Catholic order in Germany has apologised for the systematic sex abuse. Fr Dartmann said he was ashamed the order did not investigate.

    The college is the alma mater of many politicians and business leaders

    “…My feeling as a Christian leads me to be a fighter for my Lord and Saviour. It leads me to the man who, at one time lonely and with only a few followers, recognised the Jews for what they were, and called on men to fight against them As a Christian, I owe something to my people.” – Adolf Hitler

    “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so” — Adolf Hitler

  81. Dave Page 3 Feb 2010, 9:37pm

    A terrible shame that these Lib Dem amendments to improve equality have been rejected.

  82. We can also voice our opposition by signing the “Ban the Pope Petition”

    Already over 10 000 signitures today, and an article written about it in the Times.

    http://www.secularism.org.uk/petition-the-pm.html

  83. So we have this and just now on newsnight a piece on the Ugandan LGBT genocide bill that’s saying we are abnormal that contained 5 mins of LGBT hate and 20 secs of support for us.

    It looks like the order have gone out in government to attack us to secure votes.

  84. Abi1973 . . . thanks for mentioning this I meant to watch the report, but missed it.

    “5 mins of LGBT hate and 20 secs of support for us.”

    A coded message which says we are pretty worthless as a people, and do not deserve the justice and consideration that an informed discussion would bring.

    Bascially . . . we are second class citizens!!!

  85. theotherone 4 Feb 2010, 2:08am

    vote labour everyone! vote labour everyone!

    they love us.

  86. theotherone 4 Feb 2010, 2:28am

    ‘the fight against homosexuality’ the fight? HOW DARE THE FVCK1NG BBC LEGITIMISE HOMOPHOBIA! It';s all over now folks, equality is lost for a generation as Labour turn on Queers in a desperate attempt to gain votes.

    Bring on a Tory government – please.

  87. Katie Murphy 4 Feb 2010, 8:03am

    The pope should be greeted by a hundred couples signing up for civil unions in public.

    The german pope also UNexcommunicated a Bishop Williamson last year. A bishop who is a holocaust denier.

    What else would you expect from a pope who grew up in Nazi Germany

    He should be dragged off to the International Criminal Court in the Hague. Somehow he escaped notice re Nuremburg

  88. Christine Rourke 4 Feb 2010, 10:24am

    The No 10 Petition Website for the Secular petition now says…

    “Sorry, due to high traffic this website is currently unavailable, please try again shortly.”

    chris

  89. theotherone 4 Feb 2010, 12:39pm

    perhaps the sites been pulled by the government :-0

  90. Well, Labour have now officially lost my vote.

  91. theotherone 4 Feb 2010, 1:34pm

    i don’t know how any Queer person can vote for them now.

  92. We now have over 12 000 signitures on the Pope Petition, e-mail all your friends to sign the petition.

    http://www.secularism.org.uk/petition-the-pm.html

  93. Simon Murphy 4 Feb 2010, 3:42pm

    No 86: “Bring on a Tory government – please. ”

    You’re not serious I hope?

    Those Tory homophobes will not only block any new legislation; they will try to reverse legislation already in place (the catholic arch-homophobe Iain Duncan Smith will be in charge of families if the Tories win which would be hilarious if it was not so sinister)

    If the Tories win (and they are likely to) then gay rights are going to come under sustained attack from the Tories. It’s time to stop being polite and to start shouting.

    Harriet Harman is a pathetic, spineless wimp. She needs to hear that. And David ‘PR’ Cameron needs to know that his government will be hauled through the ECHR every time he allows his sinister crony Iain Duncan Smith try to reduce our hard won rights.

    I want to see abortion information stalls and condom giveaways everywhere the Pope appears.

    Actually I want him to be kept away from the public for his own safety.

    He is a genocidal maniac and he is not welcome here.

  94. Father Andrew Gentry FCSF 4 Feb 2010, 4:11pm

    I see that appeasement is alive and well. Chamberlain would have been proud of such cowardice in the name of diplomacy!

  95. Sister Mary clarence 4 Feb 2010, 4:21pm

    Simon, do you ever feel reality slipping away from you. Election just round the corner and your beloved Labour kicking into touch gay equality.

    Might it be because they’ve already lot the gay vote, so are focusing priority elsewhere?

    David Cameron’s government hauled through the the ECHR – isn’t it New Labour’s government that has been there more than once or twice.

    You’re not stupid Simon, but you’re starting to sound it

  96. theotherone 4 Feb 2010, 4:24pm

    simon: only half joking.

    This government is in a sustained retreat from anything that could be called mildly Liberal. They’re attacking queers and now attacking Immigrants – anything to get a vote from the BNP and as we’re dealing with a Party that’s courting the Fascist vote then it’s time to get them out.

    The Tories will not reverse Equality Legislation as it’s part of European Law – it’s Labour who are ignoring this.

    Given that there is no difference between the parties on this issue then should we not turn our attention to Civil Liberties, the economy, Employment Law, Tax, Public Expenditure and all the other things the Tories are outstripping Labour on.

  97. theotherone 4 Feb 2010, 4:35pm

    an example of where Labour are fvck1ng up:

    Labour want to bring in a law which would effectivly make Employment Agencies illegal.

    The main point of companies using Employment Agencies is to employ people for short term contracts without having to spend money on recruitment when an employee may only be with them for 3 – 6 months.

    As this would be made impossible to do under a law proposed by Labour employers will not seek short term workers and therefore Unemployment will rise.

    Labour say that Employment Agencies are used to exploit workers but strangely The Civil Service is the largest single user of Employment Agencies in the UK.

  98. theotherone 4 Feb 2010, 4:46pm

    how Labour fvcked up:

    Labour borrowed unimaginable amounts to give to banks early in the current Depression (‘Recession my arse) saying that this would be passed on to business. The banks hoarded the money and began foreclosing on overdrafts held by Businesses causing a worsening of the Depression.

    When Businesses then asked the government for money the government said it couldn’t as it had given all the money to the banks.

    When this grand plan failed the government responded by borrowing vast sums of money and giving then to the banks in the hope it would be passed on the Businesses but the banks hoarded it…

    Can you see the pattern emerging?

  99. theotherone 4 Feb 2010, 4:51pm

    how Labour fvcked up again:

    In the middle of the worse Depression since World War 2 the Government continued to spend billions on the DNA Database (even though they will never be able to implement it as Europe has ruled it illegal), the NHS Spine (which has now been abandoned as they couldn’t get the computer software to work) and ID Cards (which the claimed to have scrapped) while at the same time reducing entitlement of Social Security Benefits to three months for anyone made unemployed by a Depression that was largely their falt.

  100. theotherone 4 Feb 2010, 4:53pm

    and then there was tax:

    The Government has doubled the rate of Income Tax for the Lowest Paid workers while implementing a Tax on City Bonuses that is so full of loop holes that no one will have to pay it.

    More to come later…

  101. Simon Murphy 4 Feb 2010, 5:08pm

    “Simon, do you ever feel reality slipping away from you. Election just round the corner and your beloved Labour kicking into touch gay equality. Might it be because they’ve already lot the gay vote”

    I’m not a Labour voter.

    Have you read the interview in the Independent today, where David Cameron refuses to acknbowledge that one of his Polish chums is an anti-Semitic, homophobe, despite the fact that said Pole made a statement which claimed that 43% of British paedophiles are gay, despite only making up 1% of the population?

    Cameron has just lost the LGBT vote with that interview. Read it and weep. It paints a picture of a man utterly without integrity, willing to sell his grandmother to the highest bidder if it will win him a few votes.

    If I were you, then I wouldn’t be casting aspersions about MY grip on reality when it is you who will vote for a party whose leader thinks that rap music had led to a 40% increase in violent homophobic crime, but thinks religion has nothing to do with it.

    And all you Tory voters – do you think that a claim that 43% of British paedophiles are gay (despite making up only 1% of the population) is homophobic?

    Why do you support a party whose leader thinks that such savage, pig-ignorant homophobia is acceptable?

    As for LGBT equality laws not being reversed?

    I present Iain Duncan Smith – a catholic extremist and proposed Tory Minister for the Family – a man whose current activities with the Centre for Social Justice is ALREADY actively campaigning to reduce the parental rights of non-biological gay parents.

    I suppose we are grateful that the LGBTory Group are fighting the LGBT corner so vociferously.

    Except of course they are NOT. They don’t even have permission to condemn the Polish Law and Justice Party – the party that thinks that 43% of the LGBTory group are child molesters.

    Don’t be referring to MY grip on reality when the evidence it crystal clear – the Tory Party are the nasty, homophobic party. Their homophobia is seen through their actions even though David ‘PR’ Cameron’s empty words try to sound encouraging (for example ‘Children should be taught about gay equality, but what i REALLY want to do is to massively increase funding for homophobic ‘faith schools’)

  102. theotherone 4 Feb 2010, 5:11pm

    simon: Labour has provided huge funding to ‘Faith Schools’ which teach Creationism and has allowed them to say whatever they like about Homosexuality.

  103. Simon Murphy 4 Feb 2010, 5:21pm

    Indeed – but David ‘PR’ Cameron wants to increase this funding to faith schools.

  104. To take up Simon Murphy’s argument that the conservative want to increase funding to faith schools.

    Unfortunately it is much worse than that . . .

    “Tories to oversee biggest expansion of religious schools since 19th century”
    http://www.secularism.org.uk/tories-to-oversee-biggest-expans.html

  105. Pumpkin Pie 4 Feb 2010, 5:49pm

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1248110/ANDREW-PIERCE-Why-I-gay-man-agree-Pope–Harriet-Harmans-equality-mania-promotes-intolerance.html

    Wow, thanks for that link, Mumbo Jumbo. That was truly disgusting. This is exactly what I expected was going to happen. A high-profile gay man from the homophobic Daily Telegraph moving to the Daily Mail: seriously, who DIDN’T think this is what would happen? When homophobia comes from one of “us”, it’s taken as Gospel truth by the bigots. No-one does more damage to us than those who work from within, as we’ve seen numerous times from America’s “ex-gays”. The Mail never had any intention of making up to us. All they wanted was to legitimise their hate and pander to their loathsome readership under the pretence of being reasonable. That’s all they ever do.

    I figured I was going to say this, but I waited until I had some proof: Andrew Pierce is a loathsome, money-grubbing, self-interested, homophobic vermin. I hope he and his buddy Jan Moir get on splendidly.

  106. You guys should check out the national secular society website

    The government are now likey to be prosecuted for not following the european code of practice regarding the law on LGBT equality

  107. theotherone 4 Feb 2010, 8:14pm

    Dear

    Thank you for your email of 3 February addressed to the Rt Hon Harriet Harman QC MP, about the Equality Bill. Your email has been passed to the Government Equalities Office, and I have been asked to reply.

    The Government sought to clarify in the Equality Bill the kinds of employment to which organised religions such as a Church or a Mosque can lawfully apply requirements relating to gender, marriage or sexuality so as to comply with religious doctrine or avoid conflicting with strongly held religious convictions. This was to address concerns expressed to us by Churches and others about the interpretation of a definition of employment for the purposes of an organised religion that was in the Bill. Both that definition and its clarification were rejected by the House of Lords. The Government respects the decision of the House of Lords and will not seek to reverse it as it does not change the existing protection for individuals from discrimination by organised religions as employers.

    Yours sincerely

    Regards
    David Vickery
    Government Equalities Office
    9/F8
    Eland House
    Bressenden Place
    London, SW1E 5DU
    Tel: 0303 444 1204
    Fax: 0303 444 3303
    Website: http://www.equalities.gov.uk

  108. theotherone 4 Feb 2010, 8:24pm

    and while we’re discussing religion in politics – hasn’t the Labour party asked ‘faith advisers’ to help shape government policy?

  109. Sister Mary clarence 4 Feb 2010, 8:52pm

    theotherone, I wonder if Simon got such a swift reply to his tirade?

  110. PumpkinPie wrote: “Andrew Pierce is a loathsome, money-grubbing, self-interested, homophobic vermin. I hope he and his buddy Jan Moir get on splendidly.”

    That’s putting it strongly, Pumpkin, but you’re bang on the nail there. He’s a gay disgrace! And I hope some of his gay friends have the GUTS to tell him so.

  111. We now have over 13,480 signatures on the Pope Petition.

    Email all your friends to sign the petition.

    http://www.secularism.org.uk/petition-the-pm.html

  112. One thing I dislike about this site is the fact that you constantly parade before us the sneering faces of our enemies. For weeks now we’ve had to look at Jan Moir’s pork-pie face and Iris Robinson’s demented smirks. And now he have Harriet Harman beaming at us. is there no other way to illustrate your news stories about these people?

  113. Sorry, meant to write ‘And now we have …’

  114. theotherone 5 Feb 2010, 12:49am

    alas sister I do not consider it much of a reply. Should I reply back pointing out that there are frequent battles with the Lords? Should I point out that this is a matter of European Law?

    After last night’s Newsnight piece that was discussed on this thread I saw (in the take away as we got a meal – we had been too busy to cook and this is typed in a short break before returning to work) Rab C. Nesbitt in which ‘Rab’ found a new way of skiveing off Benefits – declare himself a Trannie.

    How I laughed as Transexuals where portrayed as blokes wandering around with facial hair, dressed in pink and skiveing off doing a hard days work. Trannies are, the BBC would have us believe, work shy layabouts.

    WORK SHY? i AND MY PARTNER RUN A COMPANY WITH A TURNOVER IN EXESS OF £1.5 MILLION A YEAR! wE OFTEN WORK UNTILL 2 OR 3 IN THE MORNING WHEN THERE’S WORK TO BE DONE. LAZY? THE BBC’S COMEDY DEPARTMENT IS WHERE THE LACK OF A WORK ETHIC LIES TO COME OUT WITH THIS OFFENSIVE BULLSH1T.

  115. Mihangel apYrs 5 Feb 2010, 8:29am

    “The Government sought to clarify in the Equality Bill the kinds of employment to which organised religions such as a Church or a Mosque can lawfully apply requirements relating to gender, marriage or sexuality so as to comply with religious doctrine or avoid conflicting with strongly held religious convictions…”

    the Xian and judaic writings contain passages that make clear that women aren’t to lead, nor work outside the home.

    To conform to this, churches ought to be allowed to diccriminate against women applying for “manly” jobs, and keep them to scrubbing floors and flower arrangement. Is Hattie Harperson OK with that?

  116. There is an article at this link.
    http://womenborntranssexual.com/2010/02/04/we-wanna-be-excommunicated-or-whats-a-girl-gotta-do-to-get-a-drink-around-here/
    Which I think sums up everything about this entire farce.

    The pope was once in the Hitler Youth, then a year in the Wehrmacht, during WW2.

    Anyone who took part in that, who campiagns against rights. We all know exactly where he is coming from. We know his holy book is Mein Kampf and we should all of us, not just gay, transsexual or any other group, but everyone at the top of our voices shout at every politican in the land, until they get the message.

    The politicians are taking orders from the Vatican which is classed as a seperate state. It is not even within the European Union. It maybe in Rome, but it is seperate state from Italy.

    The Vatican has no place telling any country what to say.

    The inquisition was stopped by Napolean. Maybe we need another Napolean to rise up and stop them again.

  117. Harriet Harmonium.

    Fill it full o’ wind and it’ll play owt yer want; two choons at the same time; or glide seamlessly from rock to Mozart; or just huff and wheeze.

    Just press the right button and off she’ll blow.

    What a shambles.
    K

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