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Trans woman told it was ‘illegal’ for her to use women’s toilets

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Reader comments

  1. 1 Feb 2010, 4:03pm

    What law exactly would Katrina Harte be breaking? If they can’t name it, then it’s obvious discrimination.

  2. ChutneyBear 1 Feb 2010, 4:20pm

    Whatever her legal gender thats the toilet she should use….problem solved

  3. So, everyone apparently supported her, and then one day one, single, uno employee said she couldn’t and she just up and left and never went back?

    While I do think its stupid that happened to her, I also see it as kinda strange that there is all this facebook stuff going on now, when, (and if she was correct in say that pretty much everyone else working there supported her)she could most likely just go in and just mention it to the other staff there and probably get an apology from the one person who said that.

    In short. People just cant let one thing break them so easy.

  4. so lets get this right; a trans man can have a baby but a trans woman can’t use the Lady’s loo? What a mad world!!!!

  5. i don’t think there are ANY actual laws governing what toilet to use. it’s just a social convention. somebody was overstepping the mark.

  6. chutneybear,

    a transwoman needs to live as a woman for several years (including using womens toilets) before she can have her legal gender changed to female.

    i hope she sues and makes a small fortune, so other people arent so hateful and so stupid.

  7. ChutneyBear 1 Feb 2010, 5:40pm

    well go with social conventions if you know what I mean….if she is looked upon as a woman then let her use womens toilets, thanks for that Xaria, I wasnt aware of that! Excuse my ignorance!

  8. The Grinch 1 Feb 2010, 6:11pm

    I’m forever using the Ladies and Disabled Toilets – it’s the only place I can get any privacy from jealous queens eyeballing my large wang.

  9. Liz Church 1 Feb 2010, 6:30pm

    It is social convention that we observe, not any legal requirement when we choose which loo to go in. If it were otherwise, a mother would not be able to take her young son into the ladies.

    Section 29 of the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 as amended in April 2008 makes it unlawful to discriminate against those in transition in the supply of goods and services. They haven’t a leg to stand on in my view.

  10. Dionysian 1 Feb 2010, 8:00pm

    Rose@5: The only ones which springs to mind are “Indecent Exposure” or “Outraging Public Decency”. Both would require someone to make a formal complaint.

    As I assume the ladies facilities in question have only cubicles and no urinals she would not be exposing herself if she shut the door. As for decency, she is dressed as a woman, behaves as a woman and, both to herself and those around her, is a woman regardless of birth certificate or progression through transition surgically. You would be hard pressed to make anything of it. It is difficult enough to find a problem with a macho rugby player using the ladies if he just went in, did his stuff and left again (after washing his hands, of course).

    It isn’t like she went outside and urinated on a public war memorial in the town square, now, is it?

  11. theotherone 1 Feb 2010, 10:33pm

    People just cant let one thing break them so easy.

    —it’s not one thing, it’s one thing after the other, a constant drip-drip.

    The pub seems to have decided that she’s no longer welcome. It happens. I and my partner used the same hair dresser for years but on the last visit it was made perfectly plain that we where no longer welcome.

  12. I am supporting a friend through the transitioning period. Thankyou PinkNews for such articles. It is very informative.

  13. Liz Church – You’re totally right about that. I was told this on a council diversity workshop just last week, the bottom line is that if gender reassignment is underway, even at the pre-op stage you are permitted to use the toilet of whichever gender you are reassigning to. Should be pretty straight forward.

  14. “if gender reassignment is underway”
    Actually I believe current legislation is that if you’re under the care of a physician for the purpose of gender reassignment, you are protected under discrimination legislation. You don’t *technically* have to be transitioning yet. Although the exact boundaries of ‘transitioning’ and ‘gender reassignment’ are somewhat vague, I think that’s an important distinction to make given the abysmal state of ‘common knowledge’.

    Something to consider though- that automatically excludes crossdressers and transvestites, those in drag for any other reason, transpeople who are not yet out to a physician, and almost always transpeople under the age of 18 from legal protection, or even recognition (there where plans to expand legislation in the equality bill, but I don’t think they where that sucsesfull).

  15. theotherone 2 Feb 2010, 12:20pm

    john: the law is meaningless, pointless and not worth the trees that dies for it.

  16. The last Met Police commissioner sir Ian Blair said he would expect any trans woman found in a male toilet to be arrested for soliciting. As the 2008 London Pride toilet scandal proved its on ilegal for trans women to use the ladies loo’s nor do we need to produce gender recognition certs (its illegal to ask for a trans person to produce one). Its a shame on the day of London Pride when trans women where denied the use of the correct toilet by security. That two trans women where assaulted in the male toilets one of them sexually fails ever to be mentioned.

    Let my people pee

  17. theotherone 2 Feb 2010, 2:21pm

    Let my people pee

    —the right to piss as a human rights issue. It shows how far behind Trans rights are.

  18. But sometimes I use the women’s loos if there’s a queue and I identify as a man…

    So let’s face it people – the only reason we have separate toilets is so women don’t have to sit in our piss, which for some reason some of us fail to get into the bowl.

  19. But sometimes I use the women’s loos if there’s a queue and I identify as a man…

    So let’s face it people – the only reason we have separate toilets is so women don’t have to sit in our p*ss, which for some reason some of us fail to get into the bowl.

    Why is p*ss censored?

  20. Oops it’s not, and double – now triple post. Sorry!

  21. Joanna Sue 4 Feb 2010, 7:11pm

    As TS myself, working through the Real Life Trial, one needs to present as Female. This means the use of female restrooms. If you cannot pull this off it puts your transition in question. Most psychologists provide “carry letters” stating the person is working on transitioning and should be considered as the gender they present as outwardly. Since I am not from the UK and have no idea about the social impact of being denied a given pub, I cannot fully understand. Here if it were me, I would just go to a different one which was OK with my being there. I hope that she gets what she wants from all the widespread word about being denied access to the bathroom, but I suspect once the dust has settled, she will find that her choice in pubs will still be elsewhere.

  22. There is and there was never any law in any part of the world that prohibits someone of going to a specific bathroom for any kind of reason. Well, except maybe for the Jim Crow laws.

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