Shame he did not tell that to his Tory peers then!
“Should we teach them about civil partnerships being a way of same-sex couples showing commitment just as married couples show commitment?”
Well I don’t agree with that – or see how he reconciles it with “education should teach people about equality, that we treat people the same whether they are gay or straight” – but… still nice to hear.
Typical Tory bullsh!t.
Teach children about equality? Nice idea. But Cameron himself is opposed to marriage equality for gay couples.
Teach them that discrimination is bad? How when the Tories in the House of Lords are a pack of old, unelected bigots who support homophobic discrimination.
Most importantly if the Tories get elected will Cameron allow that homophobic, religious extremist Iain Duncan Smith get his bigotted, catholic hands on the Family portfolio.
Don’t forget – a vote for the Tories is a vote against LGBT rights.
Do his comments extend to faith schools?
Yes, if he cannot ´educate´ his own peers that lesbians and gays are equal, then how does he propose to do it in our schools?
does this cover homophobia schools? (ie ‘faith’ scools)
how hypocriticl do you need to be to tell kids to be for equality while voting against it….
“Yes we should!” – shameless looted from Pres. Obama. And, yes we should… give those Tory Lords a good smacking. Nothing will persuade me to vote for Cameron, he is an empty vessel that makes too much noise.
David Cameron is pretty genuine. I still think there are far too many loons in the rank and file – the triumphalist announcement of the defeat of the Equality bill on Conservative Home shows this.
It is commendable that he has made this statement – though, I’d like to hear him say that no child should be told they are disordered, or immoral because of who they are – whatever school they are attending.
Actually this headline panders to the conservative lords and churches ike. Whilst I think teaching about gay relationships is important ahouldn’t the bigger issue be to teach children to accept who they are without fear of hatred and violence? To grow stronger and not accept anyone saying who and what they are is wrong!
For those of you familiar with ‘Yes, Minister’ (and others too!) you might recognise this statement of the form, here’s what I thik is right, whilst setting up a precedent to do nothing about it.
So, if you believe him (to begin with, and I am very suspicious of him, for many reasons) then he is saying:
“Should we teach them about the importance of equality, whether you’re heterosexual or homosexual? Yes we should.”……AND “how schools teach sex education should not be dictated from on high in Whitehall or Westminster.”
Reading between the lines – he is saying: “I would like to appear personally, and in leadership, as a supporter of equality….AND I don’t actually have to do anything about it though (which I imagine would damage my popularity), because in my speech I am committed to devolving these decisions to schools and away from central government. For me, this is WIN-WIN!
I imagine he is having lots of private conversations with IDS and that ilk to explain this stance away as spin and tactics in order to save face within the tories.
Call me cynical!
Up until recently I under lived in a borough under a Tory MP. I was in contact with for a while over an issues that was concerning me. I can tell you he was a wonderful man, kind , understanding and extremely helpful. Whilst talking to him on other things I mentioned the lack of support for gay rights that the Tory party has shown over the years, including his own poor record on some , not all votes on gay issues. He told me although he did disagree with some of the way the party had voted he had to toe the party line. It was for this answer I decided never to vote Tory again. As the MP in question was gay. I really felt is was like the turkey wishing every day was Christmas. it’s a shame because like I said he was a wonderful MP. I could also mention the local Tory councillor, who knocked on my door canversing my vote, and on being told it was a gay household, he informed me nicely that he disagreed with my life style.
Its sound bite politics to deflect the damage the Tory Lords have done.
Cameron stabbed us in the back in the house of lord and today has the gaul to smile and offer us meaningless words of comfort today.
This is why I’m voting Lib Dem.
Nice one Dave but the only way you will conince me that you mean it and are not just vote grabbing the headlines is if you do a turn on Menat play suited for sex site!
Yes I very much agree with you.
Cameron has figured out that he can simply talk like a progressive while taking actions that suit the right wing in his party.
Adrian T writes:
David Cameron is pretty genuine.
I don’t think that David Cameron is genuine personally. He knows fine well that on the day he said this the Tory peers all but one voted that religions could maintain homophobic discrimination.
My own feeling is that Cameron is astonishingly capable of duplicity.
David Cameron used to work in PR.
He was a professional liar even before he entered politics.
Believe him at your own risk.
“We treat people the same whether they are gay or straight except when we vote in Parliament on the laws needed to enact this and except in faith schools – which I plan to expand.”
I am beginning to believe there is a very deliberate strategy regarding GLBT votes that Cameron and the Tories are executing in the run up to the election. That is the staging of statements of support and events such as the first official gay pride event at their last conference giving good P.R around equality, while the rank and file MP’s and Lords continue their historical support for anti-gay legislation. There is a world of difference between words and actions.
Of the 31 shadow Tory cabinet members, ten have voted at least once against gay equality. Nineteen members of the shadow cabinet joined an attempt to block the Equality Bill. I stand to be corrected, but has there ever been a bill introduced by the Tories to explicitly advance gay rights?
Cameron’s career prior to an MP was in PR and this latest soundbite sounds straight out of a marketing playbook. He does not convince me….
I just wrote this post then I see Mumbo Jumbo beat me to it. Anyway here it is:
Don’t forget that yesterday David Cameron was wanting a boom in faith schools.
The big difference between David Cameron’s talk on faith schools and his talk today on teaching children about gay relationships is that there is a lot of very real action on his creating a boom in faith schools but there will be no action at all on teaching children about LGBT relationships.
F_cking typical of all you red leftie tossers. You complain for years about Section 28, Missus Thatch having destroyed all gay life on the planet and the Tories being responsible for everything from the Holocaust to your 5 day old milk going sour in the fridge.
When these people really DO try to change things for the better, you still continue to moan. It’s either the wrong thing, too small, too late, the wrong colour or he’s wearing the wrong f_cking tie.
Isn’t it about time you got a bit with the times and be objective about politics instead of being stuck up to your necks in mud, continually bemoaning every party that isn’t Labour?
I totally agree with RobN. Cameron is a goog guy who deserves our support.
Really measured and persuasive, RobN, nice one.
Yeah RobN cos you’re the king of objectivity….
Spin it anyway you like but the look at the FACTS and then defend the Tory record:
* One in six current Tory MPs standing for re-election voted in favour of Section 28 in 1988.
* A sixth voted against Section 28′s repeal in 2003 including a third of the shadow cabinet. David Cameron, Francis Maude and William Hague were among them.
* One in ten voted against reducing the age of consent for gay men from 21 to 18 in 1994.
* Almost one in five voted against the Sexual Offences Amendment Bill in 1999 which reduced the age at which anal sex is legal from 18 to 16. Seven of these, including shadow equality minister Theresa May, are in the shadow cabinet.
* One in three voted to allow only heterosexual married couples to adopt in 2002, including seven members of the shadow cabinet.
* One in three voted against the Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations in March 2007, which allows the Secretary of State to make regulations defining discrimination and harassment on grounds of sexual orientation. This included 33 – a third – of frontbenchers and four members of the shadow cabinet.
* Nineteen members of the shadow cabinet joined an attempt to block the Equality Bill which would introduce a single ‘public duty’ requiring all publicly-funded bodies to proactively promote equality.
Of the 31 shadow cabinet members, ten voted at least once against gay equality. One, the shadow Europe minister, Mark Francois, voted against repealing Section 28, allowing gay couples to adopt and 2007′s Sexual Orientation Regulations. He also joined the attempt to block the Equality Bill.
Cameron is not attempting to change things for the better he is just TALK. If he was the Tory lords would not have voted against equality the very day before and the Tory homepage would not be touting it’s move on the day he came up with this crap….
I for one would love to see real change from the Tories but will remain critical until they actually vote for us not against us….
I just checked my fridge and sure enough my milk is sour. Cameron you are a b*rst*rd!!
But you have to say that about your boss Justin Hinchcliffe.
Why do the Tories need to send in one of its own spin doctors (Justin Hinchcliffe) onto pinknews to deflect negative comments?
PS Patrick, while I view Cameron more favourably than you, I agree the Tories cannot be trusted – too many cranks in the rank and file. The LGBTories and the Conservative Humanists must assert themselves.
As pointed out by Patrick James above – Cameron is another of these people who thinks we need faith schools, breeding grounds for sectarianism and bigotry. (Cameron is a non-believer, I am almost sure).
The only sensible party on this issue is the LibDems and possibly the Greens too. Why the hell do we need to ruin childrens minds with faith…? With China and India turning out science / engineering graduates in their hundreds of thousands, we need to be filling their minds with SCIENCE for goodness’ sake, if we want to compete in an innovation led world economy.
Teach kids about Evolution from the age of 7. Now, which party leader will call for that?
I am squarely with you on this Rob.
As for persuasive – there really is little point trying to be persuasive is there. You wanted the Conservatives to change. Every policy statement possible indicates they are. Yes, there are some people remaining in the party with unsavoury views but they are being marginalised as and when the opportunity arises.
If you don’t like the part ydon’t vote for it – simply, but give the whining a rest. You are in a minority in the gay community now. Snivel and belly ache all you like. Most people can see Labour for what they are.
You are voting for Labour because of what you stupidly believe that have given you and will give you in the future – screw the rest of the country and everyone in in. What is best for anyone other than yourselves matters nothing to you.
It used to be the Tories that were seen to be selfish – but Jesus Christ take a good hard look at yourselves and the flimsy reasons you give for supporting Labour.
As yourself which if the following apply to you – bitter, selfish, resentful.
Yes – that’s right. All of them.
Oh, and did I mention stupid.
Its a good job it only needs a cross on the ballot paper!!!
There is a bigger world
Way to go Sister Mary Clarence – hurling personal abuse to anyone who disagrees with you as “bitter, selfish, resentful and stupid.” Your Tory colleague RobN adds “tossers” to the mix. Pink News should be a safe place for us to discuss issues without this kind of invective and abuse – keep that for your Conservative Party meetings please.
If Cameron is so committed to our FULL equality and outperform Labour, let him support passage of same-sex marriage to prove it and allow his fellow straights, if they so choose, to form a civil partnership, all things being equal. I’d vote for him too if he did that and I hate tories, just as a thank you.
It comes as no surprise that the “usual suspects” are taken in by Cameron. I’m not that interested in discussing the politics with them.
However I will point out that it is the present nature of the contradiction that is the issue. This is not about past activity so much. It is true of course that the Conservative party has a long history of supporting LGBT discrimination. But Cameron’s apparently positive statements about LGBT issues contrast with current Conservative party activity as well as that history.
As Mumbo Jumbo illustrated very well, today David Cameron says he wants children to be educated about gay relationships, but only yesterday he wants a massive increase in faith schools. The faith schools are exempt from educating children about LGBT relationships.
So, there is a contradiction between the actions and the words. The faith schools are action, whereas the LGBT relationship education is just words.
The Conservative party’s creation of the ECR group in the European Parliament with the inclusion of the Polish Law and Justice Party
is I think the most reprehensible single action against LGBT people they have pursued and this, of course, is a current activity.
So this is not a party with just a bad history on LGBT issues, but one which is aggressively following an anti-LGBT agenda at the present time.
more empty words – only his actions would show what’s likely and he supports faith stuff whilst allied to a right-wing extremist party
No 20: RobN: You say:
“When these people really DO try to change things for the better, you still continue to moan.”
Please explain how David Cameron’s statement that he thinks children should learn about gay relationships (while refusing to say what this means in practical terms – although his support for faith schools should ring the alarm bells)
These LGBTory Sheep really do take the biscuit. They’ve voluntarily blinded themselves to the fact that under the Tories their hard won freedoms are going to be dismantled.
Watch out LGBTory Sheep. Religions being allowed to discriminate against gay people is just the 1st step.
Iain Duncan Smith is waiting for step 2.
The man’s a smiling assassin .. so right wing it doesn’t bear contemplating. I wouldn’t trust a word he says … just take a look at who he choses to associate with in Europe ….
DaveP – I think you’ll find that RobN is actually a UKIP supporter.
I take your point though that people should be able to post comments on here without getting insults hurled at them, but isn’t that something that works both ways?
I’ve said it before, and I will repeat it again: I am NOT a Conservative voter. My primary reason is because of their pro-Europe stance, and nothing will change my mind about them or any other party that supports that suicidal concept.
However, that doesn’t mean I like the ineffectual, vox-pop, money-squandering, politically correct, nannying bunch of flea-bitten scumbags that are currently in power.
I just think the Tories realise that they too have to get a facelift and to stop pandering to the blue-rinse Christian middle class England crowd and start appealing to so many that have become so massively polarised against the party. Competition is always a good thing, but in my mind, the political system is wrong and they, like Labour want to keep the status quo and keep British politics as a two-horse race.
What this country needs is a serious kick up the arse to the parliamentary system where others get at least a foot on the ladder; Be it proportional representation or whatever. Yes, this also means nutcases like the BNP might get in too, but I would rather everyone gets any opportunity rather than the constant choice between Mr Laurel or Mr Hardy.
I read the article and thought it was great and then I started to read the comments and got really disheartnend and THEN I read RobN’s message. Whew THANX RobN!! I guess we’ve been run over so many times we just assume we’re being run over again. BUT one of those times, and this could be the one, someone is going to mean it and stick to their word and we have to be there to support him/her. Those words are out there for evetone to read and to hear. I feel there has to be some validity to them..
Oh god its the same rubbish on here, the same comments from the labour voters. I voted labour at the last election but i wont be this time. I am actually more bothered about other things going on in the country than just the ‘gay rights issue’. Can’t you people accept that political parties change??? Labour were the same under Blair as in the 1970′s were they???
Anyway, there is an election coming soon so you can vote for who you like. Why do all you people feel the need to impose your political vierws on others and shout at people when they don’t agree with you, you’re just bullies and it seems that most of the people on this site are just die hard labour voters with no grip on reality.
Andrew, there’s just as much browbeating from the tory side in here, so we’re even. Nothing will change under a tory government. If you think it will then you’re in for a big surprise. If we truly had full equality, we wouldn’t be having this argument about who supports equality or not and so far, neither Brown nor Cameron have the guts and political will to make sure that full equality comes to fruition. Expect nothing more from Cameron on that, he’s not that progressive just like Brown. They’re not Paul Martin of Canada, Jose Zapatero of Spain either who stuck their necks out against overwhelming odds and went a lot further than Blair, Brown or Cameron or Brown could even conceive or imagine. They’re not that visionary or are capable of seeing the larger picture. Neither would get my vote because both parties prop up that unelected, undemocratic tory stacked parasitical anachronism we call the House of Lords. That’s hardly democracy where a body of people who we don’t elect get to vote on our rights.
This reminds me of the time I had meetings with my Town Council. They would regularly come out with words like ‘should’ and we ‘could’ do more.
The words mean nothing. If Cameron had said we ‘will’ be supporting gays, then that ‘would’ be saying something!
See how he has over used the word ‘should’ like we were meant to hear it, he is bullsh**ting us.
Adrian T – you might want to read some on the comments on Conservative Home denouncing the position the Lords have taken
I found this on the Tory Homepage:
Tories defeat Government attempts to force religious bodies to employ gay people http://tinyurl.com/ykgthug
Comment 27 by Sister Mary Clarence
“You wanted the Conservatives to change. Every policy statement possible indicates they are.”
Yes. But every parliamentary vote indicates not.
Every one. Time after time. Handsome is as handsome does.
“Yes, there are some people remaining in the party with unsavoury views but they are being marginalised as and when the opportunity arises.”
But the huge Conservative vote against the Equality Bill was led by Baroness Wasi, the shadow cabinet minister for Social Cohesion and Social Action. Not exactly marginal. And has David Cameron taken the opportunity to marginalise her? No.
In a different thread yesterday you made this excuse for the vote on the Equality Bill:
“I think the reality is that many of the Lords voted based on the religious beliefs rather than their political persuasions.”
If this is true, the implication is that David Cameron is not in full control of his party and, looking at the evidence provided by the voting figures, the Conservatives have been infiltrated by a very substantial number of religious zealots who ignore reason and take instructions not from their political leader but from their religious leader.
Now, that really should scare us.
Good for Cameron! He’ll win a massive proportion of gay votes and it is this reality that really sticks in the gullet of all those old-time socialist dinosaurs.
Cleggy – as I suggested to AdrianT, read the comments on the article.
Mumbo Jumbo, ‘every parliamentary vote indicates not’. Are you suggesting that the opposition votes with the government every time an issue arises. Do you imagine that Labour are going to support legislation proposed by the Conservatives when they are in power.
In politics it is customary for the ‘opposition’ party to ‘oppose’ the government.
You and the various other Labour trolls are so convinced the sky will fall in when the Tories come to power, but you’re overlooking the fact that they are by far the largest party in local government having more boroughs under their control than Labour by an outrageous majority …. and yet there are still gay bars, Pride marches and other gay events, gay businesses and of course gay people free to walk the streets.
They have been elected by gay and straight people alike who have come to the rational and reasonable decision that whilst no party is without fault entirely, the Tories are offering us the best chance of a better life.
saint dave at it again, honestly, is there anything that man wont promise?
Tories are still behind Labour. Only opinions to the wind, no promises, and no gay marriage. Call me again when Dave tells the audience that he is going to introduce gay marriage equality legislation.
Cough, have Labour promised gay marriage in their manifesto?
Hands up who know why not?
For all your ranting and raving on here , who are pro tory, please read my comment number 11 again. THIS is the reality of the tory party in day to day practice regarding gay issues. IT says more than anything about this party. Do we all really want to be kamikazi queers and vote for some one who does so very for us as a minorty?
“Up until recently I under lived in a borough under a Tory MP. I was in contact with for a while over an issues that was concerning me. I can tell you he was a wonderful man, kind , understanding and extremely helpful.”
Heartwarming to hear!!!
“Whilst talking to him on other things I mentioned the lack of support for gay rights that the Tory party has shown over the years, including his own poor record on some , not all votes on gay issues. He told me although he did disagree with some of the way the party had voted he had to toe the party line.”
That’s great Dave, I think you’ve made the argument that some of us have been putting across. Irrespective of whether an individual MP has caught up on the issue of equalities he or she will be expected to vote according to the party line.
David Cameron has made it very clear what the part line is and anyone not following it will do so at their peril.
Thanks for that, so you will be voting Tory now after all?
The thing is “bobbet”, if Cameron wants to go further than Labour to prove just how supportive he and his party are for FULL equality, then his gay constituents should be lobbying him to do just that, get behind full marriage equality for gays, and full civil partnership equality for straights who choose not to marry. Now that would be truly progressive, far more than Labour. If he did that, I predict his election would give him a mandate.
Dear sister, Does not what happened to me show that they come across one way and vote the other. Well I for one am not putting my head in the oven by voting Tory. I know that those that are pro on here in a few months time will be wailing and shouting about all the injustices that has been done against us. THE TORIES ARE ANTI GAY, they always have been, they always will. And if you think other wise , your kidding yourselves.
Dave: I’m not saying the Tories do everything the gay lobby want, but they at least try to accommodate us. I would rather that than let the loony lefties pander to minorities to gain populist votes whilst letting the rest of society rot from the inside out.
First and foremost, I am a British citizen first, and a gay man second, and that is the priority the Tories rightfully place us.
Dave – I thought the guy helped you – did you not say he was very helpful?
I would rather that than let the loony lefties pander to minorities to gain populist votes whilst letting the rest of society rot from the inside out.
But Rob do you not realise that in most of the tories eyes, you and I as a gay men are part that rot?
unfortunately RobN many tories would only see your sexuality and discriminate against you and others because of it
that’s the way many act
I do agree that all relationships should be taught about
Dave: What I am saying is I would rather live in a country where things are working well for the majority of people, and being gay is not that important, than get all the gay benefit rights and live in a craphole of overburdened public services and poor standards of living.
I’ve said it too many times before, gay people have it pretty damn good. Not perfect, but it could be a whole lot worse, so when you look at things like the wars, public spending, our massive financial deficit, immigration, education, crime etc. etc., our problems pale into insignificance.
RobN – isn’t that how the bigots want it? they don’t think that LBG are that important to have rights, equality, freedoms or even life!
They stoop to the lowest of levels to get vote!
No perverts is just another homophobe
” …. public spending, our massive financial deficit, immigration, education, crime etc”
Chester they affect us all, I think what RobN is saying is that you cannot judge the worth of any political party based on how gay friendly they are alone.
SMC: Got it in a nutshell. Gay rights are all very well and good, but they don’t rule my life. One has to see the bigger picture, and prioritise what is really important. When (not if), the Tories get back in, they are going to have one almighty job clearing up the mess this incumbent bunch of idiots has left behind, and frankly, I don’t blame them if they put LGBT stuff on the back burner whilst they try to regain some semblance of an operational country back together again.
Just because they don’t jump to attention at the beck and call of every screaming queen that wants something does not make them homophobic.
RobN – you sound very homophobic yourself
Chester are you sure you know what the word means?
Yes Sister – do you?
It’s all very well harping on about the Tories not backing gay marriage but have never yet heard Labour backing it either!
That’s a bit unfair Squidgy, its just that in three parliaments they haven’t had time to do it yet – been too busy running the economy into the ground, dismantling the NHS and generally screwing up the country.
some of Labour did Squidgy but they we’re too chicken, they called it CP’s so as not to anger religious homophobes
Chester: “RobN – you sound very homophobic yourself”
…And you sound like yet another stereotypical right-on, PC leftie gay man that thinks the f_cking world only revolves around himself.
you don’t know what I think TBH
Homophobia must end yet you don’t seem to agree on that basic point or see what others POV is as you always shout others down or resort to abuse
oh dear – looks like all you Labour trolls have just been sold down the river by Harriet Harperson ….
I agree with the comments about Cameron, but to those taken in by the lib dems, there is a lovely conference video on the net, where Simon Hughes is virtually begging a Muslim audience to ‘lead us into the future’, and calls for a Muslim prime minister. Tread carefully, please.