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Lib Dems attack Tory voting record on gay rights

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  1. John(Derbyshire) 18 Jan 2010, 2:24pm

    Just remember this when you cast your vote folks. And the most shameful thing of all-not mentioned here-is that OVER 70% of the NEW intake of Conservative MP`s are of exactly the same homophobic opinions. The BEST you can hope for during a Conservative administration is that our hard-won equality rights will be left alone-the WORST (and probably most likely) is that they will start to reverse the process-and take them away. I fully expect a Roman Catholic opt out of adoption rights in the first year- even now they are preaching about marriage-I`m afraid you will really get the roman catholics hijacking the agenda in an attempt to enforce the Pope`s dicatates.

  2. Nice to see some actual facts and figures bandied around.

  3. Mary Hinge 18 Jan 2010, 2:33pm

    What a load of scaremongering uninformed nonsense, John

  4. Robert, ex pat Brit 18 Jan 2010, 2:36pm

    Now, if Cameron and his party are truly evolved on equality, let him introduce a bill to upgrade civil partnerships to full marriage recognition. Lets see what he’s really made of.

  5. I heard the Lib Dems say on BBC this weekend that only couples with kids should get tax breaks. So, how are they any better for gay couples in general?

  6. Mary Hinge, to say that John’s comments are ‘scaremongering uninformed nonsense’ is appalling, you must have had your head in the sand for the past 30years or be politically, totally inept. on the other hand, perhaps you are just a member of a far right organisation who think that homosexuality is an abomination? Which ever you are, you are certainly not gay friendly. I aggree with John[Derbyshire’s comments totally.

  7. I’d really like to see the Tory response to all this. It’s an awful record, especially as it includes so many front benchers – including the ‘shadow equalities minister’!
    To Robert – There isn’t a Lib Dem policy that ‘only couples with kids should get tax breaks.’ Simply untrue. Tax breaks for everyone, raising the threshold to 10grand. I am a lib dem member, just to be open and clear!

  8. Mary Hinge 18 Jan 2010, 3:41pm

    Perhaps then David (or John) please show me the proof that the following statements aren’t made up and have no basis whatsoever.

    OVER 70% of the NEW intake of Conservative MP`s are of exactly the same homophobic opinions

    probably most likely is that they will start to reverse the process-and take them away

    you will really get the roman catholics hijacking the agenda in an attempt to enforce the Pope`s dicatates

    As for not being gay friendly, David, I can assure you that I am 100% gay, but was blessed with being able to look at situations, consider and think for myself rather than trot out half truths like a parrot. This is an election for now, not 30 years ago, and to be honest the country can’t afford any more time with Brown in charge.

  9. I am frankly surprised that the levels of homophobic voting amongst Tory MPs has been that low, especially re. adoption.
    I still don’t expect much progress under a Tory government regarding lgbt rights. It won’t be a priority for Cameron and he is in hoc to the Right of his party, even though I believe that his heart isn’t with them.

  10. The biggest problem will be people who feel let down by Labour who just won’t vote. That will give the Tories the win I reckon. Lordy help us!

  11. Well Mary Hinge, you have just made your political affiliations every clear! And your agenda being merely to get rid of Brown.
    Surely, this is about learning from History and what the Conservative party did to us when they were last in power. Also take a look and see how the majority of Conservatives have voted very recently on gay matters…..whatever David Cameron says, they do not appear to be very gay friendly and at the next election we will be voting for a political party not just David Cameron.

  12. Justin Hinchcliffe 18 Jan 2010, 5:09pm

    I see the usual trolls are out in force today peddling their anti-Conservative lies. Sad, really it is!

  13. Simon Murphy 18 Jan 2010, 5:38pm

    Hey Justin

    How come the Tory Party is utterly incapable of showing real evidence of being committed to equality? (and I am not talking about David ‘PR’ Cameron’s vague speeches).

    please name me 1 piece of pro-gay policy in the Tory’s plan for government should they be elected. Just 1 please?

    Even the LGBTory group is incapable of critizing homophobic extremist Iain Duncan Smith.

    The Tories are quite simply not to be trusted. They have failed miserably to show any support for equality.

    A vote for the Tories is a vote against LGBT rights

  14. I cannot vote for conservatives as I do not beleive the homophobic prejudice of the Tories throughout the 80′ & 90’s has simply evapourated.

    I cannot vote for my Lib Dem Mp either (and I’m Lib Dem) because of his attitude towards Gay people & his expense claims.(see video).

    I’m not even sure Labour is standing where I live?

  15. Poor deluded, ignorant Justin Hinchcliffe! He is one of those who failed to explain why every Tory MP present in the Commons voted to retain the Waddington amendment in the Equality Bill. But it is not possible to get between a fool and his folly. Where are Sister Mary – I have a nice car, nice job and nice House – Clarence and the redoubtable Vulgus Regina in all this?

  16. I am surprised to see what Anon has said about his Liberal Democrat MP. I thought that the only homophobic Liberal Democrat was the Bigot Beith from Berwick who, along with his wife Baroness Maddox, had his snout well and truly in the trough!

  17. Mumbo Jumbo 18 Jan 2010, 8:24pm

    Justin Hinchcliffe (Chairman of Tottemham Conservatives and editor of Hunter and Shooter) said:

    “I see the usual trolls are out in force today peddling their anti-Conservative lies. Sad, really it is!”

    Justin, given who you are and when you choose to comment on here, the lack of self-awareness in that comment is of truly galactic proportions.

    No wonder one of your own candidates publicly denounced you as a “complete idiot”.

    Mary Hinge said:

    “I can assure you that I am 100% gay, but was blessed with being able to look at situations, consider and think for myself rather than trot out half truths like a parrot.”

    In that case, you will be letting us have the “full-truth” recent voting figures from Conservative front benchers and back benchers.

    No? Thought not.

  18. John(Derbyshire) 18 Jan 2010, 8:38pm

    OK Mary and Justin-I will make 2 explicit predictions.

    During their first term-the Conservatives will allow catholic adoption agencies to opt-out of equality legislation extended to gay couples.

    Secondly-the maximum term for abortions will be reduced from 24 to 20 weeks.

    My source for stating that “over 70% of the new intake of conservative MP`s will be homophobic” is non other than Anne Widdecombe (as proudly stated on Radio 4 “The World Tonight” programme)

    Both Iain Duncan Smith and William Haigh have made no secret of their opinions of gay people. In fact-Iain Dunca Smith is a known roman catholic zealot. They just want to impose their so called “moral values” on gay people-as indeed Iris Robinson did before she got caught out herself.

  19. Patrick James 19 Jan 2010, 4:02am

    Robert writes:

    Now, if Cameron and his party are truly evolved on equality, let him introduce a bill to upgrade civil partnerships to full marriage recognition. Lets see what he’s really made of.

    I feel this is an excellent comment.

    Surely this inequality is an excellent opportunity for the Conservatives to show that they are in favour of equality for LGBT people.

    Instead we get an apology from David Cameron for Clause 28, the repeal of which he voted against in 2003. How very cheap he is.

  20. Patrick James 19 Jan 2010, 6:07am

    Mary Hinge writes

    This is an election for now, not 30 years ago, and to be honest the country can’t afford any more time with Brown in charge.

    George Osborne and David Cameron got it totally wrong in the economic crisis.

    The “wait and see” approach they adopted would have ruined the UK’s economy.

    The was no option but to refinance the banking system of the UK which had collapsed as a result, in fact, of the deregulation introduced by the Conservatives in the 80s.

    We know that the UK now faces spending cuts and tax increases to pay off the inevitable deficit that came about as a result of this recession, but we are in a far, far better position than we would have been had George Osborne and David Cameron had their way.

    What we definitely cannot afford now is the massive inheritance tax cut planned by the Conservatives to benefit the richest elite in the UK.

    The Conservatives are planning to give billions to the richest in the country at the very time when we need all the public finance we can get.

    That is what we cannot afford.

  21. @Neville. Lib Dems in Cornwall are a mixed bunch on LGBT issues. Unfortunately Andrew George Mp (St.Ives & Helston) is NO friend of LGBT people (see video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKRJjFOeKMA). Niether is Colin Breed (East Cornwall). (unlike Mathew Taylor Mp (TRURO) & Dan Rogerson (Nth Cornwall who are both excellent & LGBT supportive) Julia Goldsworthy Mp remains a little vague on LGBT.

    As to the gay youth in the video (for which some attacked us on here repeatedly for campaigning about) Well Ofsted finally carried out an inspection of Cornwall’s Childrens Services in 2009…and widely damned & condemned them, forcing the Government to take overall control of Cornwall’s abysmal Children’s Services where homophobia is rife. This forced the resignation of Mr Dean Ashton, the head of Children’s Services…the very same who point blank refused (like Andrew George Mp) to give any assistance to the homeless gay youth. It took time (since 2005) but eventually we succeded.

    We are still working on the serious & sinister problem of embedded homophobic attitudes & practises against gay persons still protected in Devon & Cornwall Constabulary. However, the Devon & Cornwall Constabulary Independent Advisary Group LGBT strand vice chair is well versed in the catalogue of police homophobic abuses by police in Cornwall in the last few years, including multiple LGBT suicide issues…and this is a LIB DEM controlled area, so I’m not sure the Tories could really do much worse…or could they?

  22. vulpus_rex 19 Jan 2010, 3:22pm

    Ho Hum – Pink news and some of it its dumber readers again doing the work of the Labour party proganda mongers – how long till they get really desperate and start with the “Tories want to eat your babies line”?

    The fact is no party at all has an exemplary history on LGBT rights. This is apparently irrelevant to the ridiculous apologists for new labour who cannot do basic sums:

    New labour = ruined economy, country now bankrupt owing BILLIONS to the gilt market… (continue with a list of incompetence as long as your arm)

    A vote for anyone other than the conservatives next May will let the unelected, rotten, corrupt, crimimally incompetent Gordon Brown back into power.

    It might not be a pretty choice but I’ll take David Cameron over five more years of the vile Brown any day.

  23. Dim Vulgus Regina always assumes that anyone who is it not a supporter of his homophobic party must be a labour supporter;the poor thing is not very intelligent.

  24. Please don’t throw the bath out with the bathwater! While some of you may dislike the current labour leader, is that seriously good reason alone to deny the prospect of another Labour term with a new leader? Brown may last for a while but there is plenty of new blood to take the helm. If you throw the Labour party out of government, you throw away that chance! Think, and think hard before you vote. Don’t throw out a whole government, who have advanced gay rights proberbly further than any other party could even promise in words! No, i don’t like Brown either, as a figurehead, but i will still vote for a future Labour Party and a positive future for gay equality!

  25. vulpus_rex 19 Jan 2010, 5:17pm

    “While some of you may dislike the current labour leader, is that seriously good reason alone to deny the prospect of another Labour term with a new leader?”

    Don’t make me laugh – the only single reason Brown is still there at the putrid, stinking head of the New Labour Corpse is because the party is stuffed to the gunnels with talentless yes-men.

    Brown may be utterly sh**e beyond all belief but can you seriously imagine the country being run by that stupid, lobotomised harpy Harman or any of her equally dreadful colleagues?

  26. What a common,little, vulgar man Vulgus Regina has turned out to be. He is well named as the Vulgar Queen (Vulgus Regina) I am surprised that he so dislikes Harriet Harman, for she, for someone who fawns over Tory class, should be ideal for his forelock-tugging approach. Dear Harriet is a niece of the Earl of Longford and a cousin of Lady Antonia Fraser, surely an ideal person for a working-class Tory like dear Vulgus to much appreciate and to whom he should curtsy.

  27. Robert, ex pat Brit 19 Jan 2010, 5:59pm

    Patrick James, thank you. You can bet that Cameron will avoid anything to do with full marriage recognition which will prove once and for all that he and his party are merely window dressing to attract conservative gay men and women. When it comes to delivering, they’ll be in for a rude awakening. As I said before, if he and his party are truly evolved on equality, let them introduce a bill to recognise civil partnerships as marriages and allow straights to form civil partnerships by choice and in so doing prove they are better than Labour. THe tories are just as corrupt as labour, to think otherwise is naive. We’re waiting, Cameron! Lets see what you’re made of.

  28. Patrick James 19 Jan 2010, 6:03pm

    John writes:

    Don’t throw out a whole government, who have advanced gay rights proberbly further than any other party could even promise in words!

    I think John makes good sense. I am a Labour kind of a guy and I like more about Brown than I dislike.

    With respect to LGBT issues Labour has not been perfect but we have seen good advances with a Labour government.

    During Conservative administrations the only advances have come as a result of intervention of the European Court of Human Rights.

    If we look at the history of the Conservative Party on LGBT issues it really is appalling. There is more even than the Lib Dems have brought up. The Conservative Party bitterly opposed decriminalising consenting sex between men in Northern Ireland in 1983 and in Scotland in 1981. Of this I’m very aware as I grew up in Northern Ireland. In fact the first gay sex I had in Northern Ireland was illegal activity and illegal because of the Conservative administration at that time. It took a huge amount of work by very dedicated people to get the law changed in Northern Ireland. Some of them experienced appalling homophobic attacks such as bricks being thrown through their windows. One of them received a visit from the police and had drugs planted in his house by the police which they promptly “found” so that they could arrest him.

    People might say that this is something from the past, but it is being repeated in the present by the Conservative Party. The Conservatives have created this tiny European grouping which includes the Polish Law and Justice Party. This is a very homophobic extreme right wing party in Poland. I feel that the same injustices I saw in Northern Ireland are being perpetrated against LGBT people in Poland by the Polish Law and Justice Party and its supporters. The present day Conservative Party is giving the Law and Justice Party huge support by boosting its esteem and credibility.

    In other discussions we have debated how we might be able to do some good for LGBT Ugandans who will be victims of the new legislation in Uganda. David Cameron has very notably made absolutely no comment about this Ugandan legislation. This is sending a clear message to the Ugandan government that if the Conservative Party gets in power in the UK it will take no action against them because of the legislation.

    I notice that some people wish to say that concern about LGBT issues is the politics of the 70s. These things I have mentioned are absolutely current and desperate. Being concerned about human rights is not “something of the 70s” but very much present day.

    Being concerned about human rights is not the converse of being concerned about the economy. In fact the two are very much linked together.

    If the Labour government had not re-capitalised the banks then the money held by the banks would have disappeared when the banks collapsed. This means that the savings of millions of UK people would have simply disappeared. Judging by a couple of posts in the forum this is not understood.

    George Osborne and David Cameron at the time of the crisis were opposed to the government taking action to re-capitalise the banks. Remember that they and their elite keep their vast amount of money very well protected overseas and so they are insulated from the very real fear of losing all your savings.

    Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling took absolutely the right action during the crisis. It was the right action for the economy and for the interests of all the citizens of the UK.

    The criticism of them by the Conservative Party is absolutely shameful. The Conservatives got it wrong on that essential issue.

    We do have a deficit now but that is by far the least painful option that was available at the time Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling made their decision which was the correct one.

    It is obvious that this deficit will need to be reduced and that means cuts in the public sector and tax increases. However at this time when we desperately need public finance the Conservative Party wishes to cut inheritance tax for the wealthiest. To give billions to the wealthiest elite out of public finances whilst cutting essential social services to the poorest.

    The Conservative Party’s overseas record on human rights is far more appalling than that in the UK. This has damaged UK interests overseas and I believe has been damaging to the economy as well as being clearly immoral.

    During the 1980s the Conservative Party provided tacit support for the apartheid regime in South Africa by opposing sanctions against the state. This was astonishingly mean spirited but also short sighted for it created loathing for the UK state amongst many current day political figures in Africa. This can only be immensely damaging to UK trade and interests. The same is true in South America as a consequence of the Conservative Party’s support for General Pinochet.

    And so I say, it is not possible to separate human rights considerations from economic issues.

    Being concerned about human rights issues is not something of the 70s but totally about the present day.

  29. vulpus_rex 19 Jan 2010, 6:28pm

    Patrick James – Just a few bits of inconvenient information for your fantasy little bubble world in which Labour hold the monopoly on equality:

    1954 Wolfenden report commissioned by Conservative government

    1966 Lord Arran Tory peer introduces private members bill to
    decriminalise male homosexuality

    1967 Tory MP Berkely introduces private members bill to decriminalise homosexuality

    1992 John Major Tory Prime Minister lifts ban on homosexuals serving in the diplomatic service

    Around same time JM MP also decriminalises homosexuality in the armed forces

    1994 Edwina Currie Tory MP introduces Private member bill to equalise age of consent (Blocked on a free vote in which many Labour MPs, David Blunkett springs to mind, voted against the amendment.)

    Not all about clause 28 is it?

    “Being concerned about human rights issues is not something of the 70s but totally about the present day.”

    Is this why Labour:

    Have ended the right to trial by Jury
    Want to lock you up for 42 days without trial
    Throw people out of their conference for heckling using trumped up terrorism legislation
    Started illegal wars (100,000 dead Iraqis and counting)
    Introduce ID cards

    Labour are a financial catastrophe for this country, an utter, unmitigated disaster who have pi**ed a generation of wealth up the wall.

    They now spend more on interest payments than on education – all to fund the vanity and incompetence of Gordon, destroyer of economies, Brown.

  30. It upsets me that so much debate on this news site is vitriolic and aims merely at sounding off as opposed to establishing the truth. I must assert a few facts, and show what they entail, if anyone disagrees, with the facts, or that they entail what I say they do, say why!

    1. Labour is more LGBT friendly than the Conservatives; this is seen both from the voting record of Labour MP’s and from the policies the government has pursued. It may be said that some of these policies were necessitated by European mandates, but this is not necessarily true; after all, think of the many opt-outs Britain has made to EU policy.

    2. There are high profile Conservative MP’s who have voted against the LGBT rights legislation enacted by Labour, and who have made homophobic statements.

    3. The recent voting record of Conservative MP’s does not substantiate the thesis that they have changed significantly on matters LGBT.

    4. David Cameron has given his support to most major LGBT rights legislation, recently, but not all (see theyworkforyou.com). In any case, we should judge politicians, given their record for saying things they don’t mean, or that they don’t abide by, on their record. Cameron’s record on gay equality is not enviable, in this respect.

    Now, one could infer from this that one shouldn’t vote for the Conservatives. The argument might be as simple as,

    1. One shouldn’t vote for a party most of whose MP’s have voted against most LGBT rights legislation.
    2. The Conservatives are a party most of whose MP’s have voted against most LGBT rights legislation.
    Therefore, one shouldn’t vote for the Conservatives.

    But, one might argue against 1, as follows.

    1. In a certain situation, S, one shouldn’t vote for a party most of whose MP’s have voted against most LGBT rights legislation, unless there is some issue or some set of issues, which are more important than LGBT rights in situation S, AND these issues are better resolved by the party mentioned in this sentence.
    2. There is some issue (or set of issues) which are more important than LGBT rights in S.
    3. This issue (or set of issues) is better resolved by the party mentioned in sentence 1.
    4. In siuation S, it’s not the case that one shouldn’t vote for a party most of whose MP’s have voted against most LGBT rights legislation.
    Therefore, in S, one should vote for the party most of whose MP’s have voted against most LGBT rights legislation.

    This would be a convincing argument, if a definition of ‘more important’ in premiss 1 could be supplied and if the situation appealed to could be specified.

    Before we have further discussion, therefore, we must establish what the set of issues, or issue is, invoked in the above argument. We must then establish premiss 3.

    Unless we do this, the debate on this forum does not progress and just becomes the exchange of opinion.

    So I challenge you: define and justify your definition of what ‘more important’, ‘situation S'; show your argument for premiss 3. Only then can you coherently argue for me to vote Conservative.

  31. Patrick James 19 Jan 2010, 8:52pm

    Vulpus Rex writes a list of things he thinks the Conservative Party has done for LGBT issues. Unfortunately Vulpus Rex has no knowledge it seems about the workings of the UK parliament and so he is really mistaken on these issues except, in fact, the first one:
    1954 Wolfenden report commissioned by Conservative government
    In fact that is the only thing that the Conservative Party has done. Yes they did commission the Wolfenden report, but then the party proceeded to bury it when they read it :)
    It will be useful if I explain why you really don’t understand these following issues, so I will go through these.
    The key words to notice in the following three items is “Private Members Bill”:
    1966 Lord Arran Tory peer introduces private members bill to decriminalise male homosexuality
    1967 Tory MP Berkely introduces private members bill to decriminalise homosexuality
    1994 Edwina Currie Tory MP introduces Private member bill to equalise age of consent (Blocked on a free vote in which many Labour MPs, David Blunkett springs to mind, voted against the amendment.)
    So, you see, those three are Private Members Bills. These are not actions of a Party. They are individual actions. The clue is in the name. Sometimes they are put forward with the party’s backing but very often they are not.
    There is a very good bit of information about Private Members Bills at the Parliament UK website. I think you should read this.
    The Private Members Bills you have quoted were not supported by the Conservative Party at all. They did not have the backing of the Tory Whips office.
    If this misinformation is coming from this LGBT Tory group then I feel it is important they are put right because it reveals a basic lack of understanding on the workings of parliament on their behalf.
    If I were to list the number of Private Members Bills put forward by the Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs advancing the causes of LGBT rights issues it would be a truly massive posting! :)
    Now I want to turn to these next “two” items:
    1992 John Major Tory Prime Minister lifts ban on homosexuals serving in the diplomatic service
    Around same time JM MP also decriminalises homosexuality in the armed forces
    These are both the same thing. Maybe that is why they happened at the same time? :)
    What you don’t realise is that in 1992 John Major had to decriminalise homosexuality in the armed forces because the European Court of Human Rights were onto it.
    Vulpus Rex writes:
    Not all about clause 28 is it?
    You are absolutely correct. The Conservative Party have blocked legislation decriminalising homosexuality in the UK as I stated in my previous post and attempted to block legislation relating to many LGBT issues.
    Now Vulpus Rex turns to issues he thinks arose during the current Labour administration:
    Have ended the right to trial by Jury
    This was ended long ago in Northern Ireland. But you don’t know that do you? That’s because you only seem to read apparently very ill-informed Conservative Party information material.
    In fact the “right to trial by Jury” was ended by Lord Diplock. It is worth reading up on this because you will find that the Conservative Party 100% backed the case against using juries in what became known as the Diplock courts, and the issues were the same as today. As they say, there’s nothing new under the sun :)
    Vulpus Rex writes:
    Want to lock you up for 42 days without trial
    Well, they don’t want to lock you up, but if you are arrested they introduced an increase in the period of detention. You don’t know very much about these things, that is clear. If you grew up in Northern Ireland like I did you would have a much better knowledge of these issues :) In the UK detention periods under trial have been possibly forever in the recent past. You didn’t know that did you? Like the Diplock courts this was with 100% Conservative Party backing.
    Throw people out of their conference for heckling using trumped up terrorism legislation
    This is just silly :)
    Started illegal wars (100,000 dead Iraqis and counting)
    The Conservatives backed the war in Iraq 100%. They also backed it by the US and yet no claims from them that there was any illegality on the behalf of the US.
    I opposed the war in Iraq myself. It is really funny now to see that the Conservative Party has remodelled itself in such a short period of time.
    What you don’t realise it seems is how adept the Conservative Party is at rewriting history. You can see with these other issues, the Diplock courts, the detention issues, these are very old and historically the Conservative Party has been full square behind them, but you’d never think that today would you? :)
    Introduce ID cards
    I think this smacks of desperation on your behalf.
    Labour are a financial catastrophe for this country…
    I have covered this just fine in my previous post.
    Actually I did make one mistake in that post so it might encourage you to read it to see if you can spot it.

    Ta Ta! :)

  32. Patrick James 19 Jan 2010, 8:59pm

    This time I have put some para spacing in because I think it looks better!

    I wish this board had a preview ability.

    Anyway here is the posting:

    Vulpus Rex writes a list of things he thinks the Conservative Party has done for LGBT issues. Unfortunately Vulpus Rex has no knowledge it seems about the workings of the UK parliament and so he is really mistaken on these issues except, in fact, the first one:

    1954 Wolfenden report commissioned by Conservative government

    In fact that is the only thing that the Conservative Party has done. Yes they did commission the Wolfenden report, but then the party proceeded to bury it when they read it :)

    It will be useful if I explain why you really don’t understand these following issues, so I will go through these.

    The key words to notice in the following three items is “Private Members Bill”:

    1966 Lord Arran Tory peer introduces private members bill to decriminalise male homosexuality

    1967 Tory MP Berkely introduces private members bill to decriminalise homosexuality

    1994 Edwina Currie Tory MP introduces Private member bill to equalise age of consent (Blocked on a free vote in which many Labour MPs, David Blunkett springs to mind, voted against the amendment.)

    So, you see, those three are Private Members Bills. These are not actions of a Party. They are individual actions. The clue is in the name. Sometimes they are put forward with the party’s backing but very often they are not.

    There is a very good bit of information about Private Members Bills at the Parliament UK website. I think you should read this.

    The Private Members Bills you have quoted were not supported by the Conservative Party at all. They did not have the backing of the Tory Whips office.

    If this misinformation is coming from this LGBT Tory group then I feel it is important they are put right because it reveals a basic lack of understanding on the workings of parliament on their behalf.

    If I were to list the number of Private Members Bills put forward by the Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs advancing the causes of LGBT rights issues it would be a truly massive posting! :)

    Now I want to turn to these next “two” items:

    1992 John Major Tory Prime Minister lifts ban on homosexuals serving in the diplomatic service

    Around same time JM MP also decriminalises homosexuality in the armed forces

    These are both the same thing. Maybe that is why they happened at the same time? :)

    What you don’t realise is that in 1992 John Major had to decriminalise homosexuality in the armed forces because the European Court of Human Rights were onto it.

    Vulpus Rex writes:

    Not all about clause 28 is it?

    You are absolutely correct. The Conservative Party have blocked legislation decriminalising homosexuality in the UK as I stated in my previous post and attempted to block legislation relating to many LGBT issues.

    Now Vulpus Rex turns to issues he thinks arose during the current Labour administration:

    Have ended the right to trial by Jury

    This was ended long ago in Northern Ireland. But you don’t know that do you? That’s because you only seem to read apparently very ill-informed Conservative Party information material.

    In fact the “right to trial by Jury” was ended by Lord Diplock. It is worth reading up on this because you will find that the Conservative Party 100% backed the case against using juries in what became known as the Diplock courts, and the issues were the same as today. As they say, there’s nothing new under the sun :)

    Vulpus Rex writes:

    Want to lock you up for 42 days without trial

    Well, they don’t want to lock you up, but if you are arrested they introduced an increase in the period of detention. You don’t know very much about these things, that is clear. If you grew up in Northern Ireland like I did you would have a much better knowledge of these issues :) In the UK detention periods under trial have been possibly forever in the recent past. You didn’t know that did you? Like the Diplock courts this was with 100% Conservative Party backing.

    Throw people out of their conference for heckling using trumped up terrorism legislation

    This is just silly :)

    Started illegal wars (100,000 dead Iraqis and counting)

    The Conservatives backed the war in Iraq 100%. They also backed it by the US and yet no claims from them that there was any illegality on the behalf of the US.

    I opposed the war in Iraq myself. It is really funny now to see that the Conservative Party has remodelled itself in such a short period of time.

    What you don’t realise it seems is how adept the Conservative Party is at rewriting history. You can see with these other issues, the Diplock courts, the detention issues, these are very old and historically the Conservative Party has been full square behind them, but you’d never think that today would you? :)

    Introduce ID cards

    I think this smacks of desperation on your behalf.

    Labour are a financial catastrophe for this country…

    I have covered this just fine in my previous post.

    Actually I did make one mistake in that post so it might encourage you to read it to see if you can spot it.

    Ta Ta! :)

  33. While I know it is important, there is a whole lot more to politics than gay rights. Yes I want my rights to be equal but I also want a country that is not bankrupt and in a complete mess. There is no-one in the Labour party who would do a better (or worse) job that Gord B, they are unelectable. We will be left with a Tory government come June, we should get used to it even though they really are no better. They are weak and we will remain in a mess for some time. Lib Dems are no better. None of the main parties are really electable. It will be a case of people not voting on political views but just to get Labour out, just like they did to get the Tories out in 1997. So because I strongly feel that if you don’t voted you can’t moan and whinge about things, my vote will have to go to a small party. Oh and no not the BNP!

  34. Patrick – Thank you for the detail of your reply but it is all nonsense – I nominate the following one as an ountstanding example of stupidity:

    Trial by Jury ended in Northern Ireland years ago – oooh that is amazing! Patrick James now has mathematical evidence that two wrongs do in fact now make a right! So if they brought back hanging years ago in NI that would make it OK in the rest of the UK. Great – all moral and philosophical argument defeated with “well they do this in Northern Ireland” – I’m still laughing!!

    Now tell me also – what is “silly” about the fact that Walter Wolfgang was thrown out of the Labour party conference for Heckling? It gained national press coverage at the time for the fact that they had to use Anti-Terrorist legislation to arrest and remove this man.

    Doesn’t sound silly to me – sinister perhaps- and a clear warning of the wholly authoritarian nature of this foul government and the fact that they will abuse and twist legislation to stifle dissent or criticism.

    Honestly the list of Labour depravity is endless – forgive me but I can only assume that your dogmatic attempts to defend them so unquestioningly suggests you work for them and they are paying you to post this rubbish.

  35. Luke.

    The problem is that you are believing the nonsense statistics made up by certain others on here.

    Using the Lib Dems own figures

    One in Six on section 28
    One in ten on age of consent to 18
    One in five on age of consent to 16
    One in three on gay adoption
    One in three on the EA(SO)R [which quite frankly was a ridiculous bill that I would have voted against for other reasons)

    None of which constitute “most”

    Indeed it would be more factually accurate to state that the vast majority of Conservative MPs did not vote against any of the “gay rights legislation”

    But why let facts spoil the Labour HQ posters who are clinging on to office for dear life.

    David

    My agenda is not to “get rid” of Brown, that is merely the consequence of a badly needed change of government, for gays, straights, everyone. If you believe otherwise then I am afraid that either you are completely deluded, or must be on the payroll vote

  36. Sister Mary clarence 20 Jan 2010, 10:39pm

    “Started illegal wars (100,000 dead Iraqis and counting)”

    “The Conservatives backed the war in Iraq 100%. They also backed it by the US and yet no claims from them that there was any illegality on the behalf of the US.”

    Possibly Patrick if Labour had presented the facts fully and honestly though they wouldn’t, eh?

  37. Greg Mullholland in Leeds north West is another homophobe, I even wrote to him about his voting record…. No response.

  38. #

    Comment by John(Derbyshire) — January 18, 2010 @ 20:38
    #

    Robert writes:

    Now, if Cameron and his party are truly evolved on equality, let him introduce a bill to upgrade civil partnerships to full marriage recognition. Lets see what he’s really made of.

    I feel this is an excellent comment.

    Surely this inequality is an excellent opportunity for the Conservatives to show that they are in favour of equality for LGBT people.

    Agreed!

    Guess who isn’t getting my vote this election? Same old out-dated party.

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