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Anti-gay hate preacher’s march may be banned

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  1. Mihangel apYrs 5 Jan 2010, 12:25pm

    what I really want to know is how a fit, educated man is “on benefits”. It really p*sses me off that our money goes to support those who hate us.

    Our country is really at the wall when we keep people in idleness merely because they breed like bunnies, and they STILL despise us, ALL of us

  2. Musclelad23 5 Jan 2010, 12:34pm

    Anjem Choudary, like Nick Griffin is a complete media wh0re. Islam4uk are the muslim equivilent of the BNP/national front. They don’t stand for majority of muslims like the BNP dont stand for the majority of whites. My muslim boyfriend and family are frankly disgusted by there twisted slant on islam. They truly are muslim fascist supremists. It always makes me laugh how much in common they have with the far right. I say we let Islam4uk and the skinhead thugs kill each other. like proper have a riot and wipe each other out. What a great society we will have then.

  3. This man is filth, but the demonstration should not be banned, free speech is free speech, however dirty and twisted it is.

    The best censorship is self-censorship, decorum, self respect and consideration to others; and his living on “Kaffir” benefits despite being fit enough to march shows how much decorum and consideration he has.

    Let him march, let Wootten Bassett turn its back on him, and let the press ignore it, just don’t – police – arrest any white man you see who hurls abuse at these men, like you did at the Danish Embassy and Luton protests.

    Isn’t it time this man was nicked for benefit fraud though? After all, it was the taxman who finally nailed Al Capone.

  4. Agree with you Musclelad23. What gets me is the do-gooders who will protest against the BNP but not against this group when what really is the difference? Funny how these hypocites like Choudary seem to hate our ways, values and rights but happy to take the p**s via benefits.

  5. Simon Murphy 5 Jan 2010, 1:16pm

    Does this guy have a British passport? Does he have dual nationality? If he has dual nationality then he needs to be stripped of his UK citizenship and deported. His human rights should not threaten the human rights of others. The fact that he encourages people to kill homosexuals means that his personal human rights do not need to be considered before deporting him.

  6. Brian Burton 5 Jan 2010, 1:23pm

    I’m sure the UK Security forces has this Islamic heathen terrorist in their sights!

  7. So Julian wants the police to allow white racists shouting abuse at Muslims and daft old Alan Johnson just can’t wait to express his support for racists. People are quite right to protest about the rape and murder of civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan and everywhere else “our brave boys” happen to be.

  8. Angelica if it wasn’t for “our brave boys” (obvious why you put them in brackets) volunteering to join you’d have conscription so get off our backs we do what we’re ordered to, as for your little rape and murder jibe everywhere we are stationed, we are stationed in many places including Germany, Cyprus and the Falklands are you saying the British Armed Forces are raping and pillaging there too?.. you should be aiming that at the Taliban as they do it quite often and without a thought. As for white racists shouting abuse fair enough they shouldn’t but then why should racist muslims be allowed to shout abuse during demonstrations?

  9. One; Wootton Bassett and its people deserve a George Medal for their steadfast support of our deceased troops and their families. Two; anyone who wants to put the Queen in a Burka and turning Buck House into a mosque should be deported for treason!
    Three we may have free speech and democracy but we have put up with theses mad mullahs for two long. They don’t like the UK but they like the money; deport them to Iran to play with the other nutters! (oh yes, he hates gays too; wot a suprise!)

  10. “Does this guy have a British passport? Does he have dual nationality? If he has dual nationality then he needs to be stripped of his UK citizenship and deported. His human rights should not threaten the human rights of others. The fact that he encourages people to kill homosexuals means that his personal human rights do not need to be considered before deporting him.”
    This man should not be deported for committing no crime, nor should people be deported in general, except for in exceptional circumstances. We should be allowed to say that we think gays should be stoned to death, or that tories should be stoned to death, etc. Likewise, we should be allowed to protest, so long as it is peaceful, and does not lead directly to gross human rights violations. This censure based on offense is limiting important freedoms. As for human rights, no ones human rights should be curtailed, that is the point of having them. They are, by nature, those which humans, regardless of their status, should expect to have. Should the human right of someone to have sex with someone of the same gender be ringed around with restrictions, for example. Other human rights are just as important.

  11. “As for white racists shouting abuse fair enough they shouldn’t but then why should racist muslims be allowed to shout abuse during demonstrations?”

    1. Demonstrate that the muslim demonstrators referred to are racist.
    2. Both should be allowed to hurl racist abuse, yet. Offense is not grounds for curtailing speech. My support of gay rights could offend many people, but that is not grounds for silencing me. Offense is purely subjective and in the eye of the beholder.

  12. It continues to amaze me that these people argue about rape and murder where ‘our brave boys’ are trying to improve society in a country that actually supports rape in marriage and limits on Afghani women’s basic right. These are laws made by the government of the country not the troops on the ground trying to stop these extremist from taking our liberities away from us. In a area that if you belong to a wrong sect of Islam or a different religion, or indeed for being gay you most likely will be murdered. Where if a woman is raped it is she who gets punished for it. This is what Islam4uk stands for and wants for the UK and the world. I feel genuinely sorry for the innocent muslims who don’t agree with this group because no doubt short sighted people will blame all not just the ones who cause the problems.

  13. Gaz, love, I didn’t put “our brave boys” in parenthese but in inverted commas. Yes, British troops have abused civilians wherever they have been stationed. I am not sure you can equiparate the sort of BNP-supporting racism you get on this list with people shouting that British troops are baby murderers – that is simply the truth – have you not read the innumerable reports of civilian casualties, including children?

  14. Folks, I wrote to the PM re the corrupt govt we are supposed to support in Afghanistan; guess wot, no reply! Shows how much the govt cares about public opinion eh(!)Our politicians are weak as water on this one! IF the mullah marches thru Wootton Bassett, the BNP will no doubt “deal” with him in a way I could not support politically but would not exactly feel sorry for said Mullah!

  15. Angelica:- the difference being that civilians have died because of errors not because of deliberate targets. Yes it shouldn’t happen but lets look at the other side. When a suicide bomber in Afghanistan, Pakistan or indeed in the UK detonates can we say the same? If you say ‘I am not sure you can equiparate the sort of BNP-supporting racism’ are you suggesting that for some reason Islam4UK’s double standards are ok? They are not different than the BNP and should be protested against just as much.

  16. Let him march, and then we can put up slogans about how we support the danish cartoonists, and stage a kiss in in front of them.

    He is an attention seeker, looking to generate headlines. He represents a tiny fanatical minority and shouldn’t be on the front pages.

  17. Mike, I very much doubt the BNP will need to get involved. I have a feeling the anger within the community and country may well do it for them. If this goes ahead it may well cause riots. Wootton Bassett doesn’t need this.

  18. Squidgy, I totally agree. However, I am sure these people intend to cause civil unrest as an excuse to publicise their sick ideas! I’d hate to see the town turned into a riot scene. Someone needs to tell this idiot that most of the muslims who are murdered are blown up by their own kind who reckon they will get 100 virgins in paradise(?!) don’t think the underpants bomber will be much use to the virgins eh!

  19. the.kitty.channel 5 Jan 2010, 2:42pm

    “We should be allowed to say that we think gays should be stoned to death, or that tories should be stoned to death, etc” (Comment by Luke — January 5, 2010 @ 14:00).

    I can’t agree with that and I don’t think you’d find many who would. Freedom of speech doesn’t extend to threats or threatening language aimed against individuals or groups.

  20. Angelica: Iraq, like Afghanistan, and many other places, is a WAR. Give it a rest with your leftie crap about human rights, Geneva convention etc etc. You’re on one side, they are on the other. Shoot them before they shoot you. This isn’t some Hollywood movie. Atrocities have been committed in every war since the year dot. You can’t go attempting to invoke some kind of standards when it’s two sides out to obliterate one another. I agree just being a soldier is not ‘brave’, (even if you come home in a box) – but that said many do go above the call of duty for what is a crap job, poor pay and sod all equipment.

    Racist f_ckwits like Choudary deserve a good kicking and deportation. if this isn’t incitement to racial hatred, I don’t know what is.

  21. No 10: Luke: you say: “As for human rights, no ones human rights should be curtailed, that is the point of having them. They are, by nature, those which humans, regardless of their status, should expect to have.”

    Agreed in principle.

    However if this hate-preacher has British citizenship as well as citizenship of another country, then it is perfectly acceptable to strip him of his British citizenship; deport him to his other country. His human rights will not have been violated at all.

    Along with citizenship rights come citizenship responsibilities. By advocating the murder of law-abiding British citizens (ie the gays) he is breaking his contract of citizenship. He therefore does not deserve to be a British citizen, and if he is already a citizen of Pakistan then he will not be stateless and Britain need have no further concern for him.

    Kick him out. He has broken his contract of citizenship and seeing as he has an alternative citizenship status in another country it is perfectly reasonable and fair to deport him without a 2nd thought.

    It is not as easy to do this with people who do not have dual citizenship as Britain cannot make someone stateless.

    Muslim extremists with dual citizenship can be deported without a 2nd thought; British Jews who have a dual citizenship in Israel and who participate in the illegal occupation of Palestine by being members of the Israeli army should also be stripped of their British citizenship.

    All these people are working against Britain therefore they should be removed from Britain – they should not be allowed take advantage of their dual citizenship.

  22. Robert, ex pat Brit 5 Jan 2010, 2:56pm

    I’m against a ban on offensive speech as uncomfortable and unpleasant it can often be. This is slippery path to fascism when speech is curtailed no matter how incendiary it might be. I hate it personally, but allowing people to say what they want, no matter how extreme is only going to alienate and polarize them by the majority.

    Muscledad213, I have a problem with Islam along with right wing christian cults, but Islam really takes the cake. It allows the execution of gay men having sex and the stoning of women who transgress sexual codes outside of marriage. Not one of Islam’s national leaders has ever condemned it and thereby I challenge Islam to refute that it is a peaceful cult. I think not. Silence gives consent. These people have to learn that when they migrate to the west, they cannot expect to impose their religious beliefs and way of life on the rest of the majority. If they can’t accept that, then they should return to their country of origin, and for those born in the UK, move to the middle east, simple as that. Nobody is forced to remain in the UK if they don’t like it. Our leaders need to summon the courage to make that statement, loud and clear, grow a spine at least and put aside political correctness.

  23. Simon Murphy 5 Jan 2010, 3:15pm

    Muslim people are always going on about how Islam is a cult of peace.

    Does anyone have links to any mainstream muslim British organisation which condemns homophobia?

    Is there a mainstream, British muslim group which condemns homophobia?

    If not then why not? Surely if islam is the cult of peace then it would have serious issues with the sickening homophobia of even the more mainstream islamic cult organisations.

    Gay people who defend islam on ‘freedom of speech’ or ‘freedom of religion’ conditions need to ask themselves which muslim country in the world does not ban homosexuality. The answer is 1 muslim country – Turkey is the only muslim country in the world where homosexuality is not punishable by death or imprisonment.

  24. Brighton John 5 Jan 2010, 3:21pm

    But they DO like it here, the benefits are what brought them here and what is keeping them.
    They want to keep the Kaffirs working for them and their families. This man is ostensibly a lawyer, why can’t he find paid work?
    Equating this evil cult with the BNP is ridiculous. And anyway he is their best promoter.

  25. Has he really got dual citizenship? I know he’s a British Citizen because he was born in the UK but I don’t understand why he’s staying here if he dislikes Britain and most of its citizens so much.

    Free speech is one thing, but extremism is another. I hope to see all the moderate, decent Muslims protesting against this man. I believe he’s the same guy who held a meeting and refused to let women in. Nice.

    As to why he’s not working as a lawyer – would YOU employ him….?

  26. Mihangel apYrs 5 Jan 2010, 3:35pm

    we’ve discussed free speech before. I have no right not to be offended, but I have every right not to feel threatened going about my life. That means screaming for our death is not free speech, but saying we’re hell-bound is (if unpleasant)

  27. Robyn Griffiths 5 Jan 2010, 3:48pm

    As an ex-serviceman I am furious that these objects even want to march through Wootton Bassett. The march should be banned and the group outlawed as a threat to national security. the leaders should have their British citizenship revoked, escorted to a port and made to swim to the nearest land that is not British.

  28. Simon Murphy 5 Jan 2010, 3:49pm

    No 25: Iris: You say: ” I hope to see all the moderate, decent Muslims protesting against this man.”

    Don’t hold your breath. For a “cult of peace” islam is always very slow to criticise any other muslim, irrespective of deranged and evil he may be.

  29. I personally feel that freedom of speech should be allowed on the basis it does not restrict others’ free speech and human rights. My own opinion of his opinion is irrelevant, I have no right to stop him for I am sure alot think my opinion is wrong but if any violence or threats are made they should be stopped.

  30. So much racist talk and dreams of violence on this list – looks like the BNP gay group has finally got organised!

  31. I only hope that the BNP are at the march and kick the crap out of this knob head
    If he doesn’t like us then he can go home and stop claiming benefits rather than getting a proper job

    If he stated that he wanted to go to Australia or America just to riot and hold disrespectful marches then i doubt he would get in, so why do we put up with it?!

  32. Simon Murphy : “Gay people who defend islam on ‘freedom of speech’ or ‘freedom of religion’ conditions need to ask themselves which muslim country in the world does not ban homosexuality.”

    The problem is Simon, hte argument is a double-edged sword – there are many out there that would like to see websites such as this closed for their “organised promotion of perversion” (in their eys) – So who is to say what is or isn’t acceptable free speech?
    As soon as you allow some, and prevent others, you have the thin end of a very nasty wedge, one that in recent times this government has tried to force using the lame blanket excuse of “prevention of terrorism”. Freedom of speech is the first and foremost human right in a civilised society. If you lose it, you are falling towards totalitarian state control.

  33. @Stephen
    “if this hate-preacher has British citizenship as well as citizenship of another country, then it is perfectly acceptable to strip him of his British citizenship; deport him to his other country. His human rights will not have been violated at all.

    Along with citizenship rights come citizenship responsibilities. By advocating the murder of law-abiding British citizens (ie the gays) he is breaking his contract of citizenship. He therefore does not deserve to be a British citizen, and if he is already a citizen of Pakistan then he will not be stateless and Britain need have no further concern for him.”

    I don’t thing citizenship should be made contingent on whether you happen to be offensive to a group of people. Mr Choudry, however odious his views, is an advocate of Sharia law. One should be allowed to advocate sharia as loudly as offensive as one likes, as one should be allowed to advocate any policy. I don’t think we should go down the road of rescinding citizenship, it would be a very bad day for civil liberties if we did.
    You mention a ‘contract’ that all with citizenship make. I certainly don’t know of any actual contract, so perhaps you are referring to a hypothetical contract- one which should regulate our citizenship. This sounds like a very dubious notion to me. What would be the terms of the contract? Think of people like early gay rights pioneers advocating civil disobediance. I can just see a scenario in which the existence of a contract would have rescinded citizenship from such pioneers. This highlights the risk with the notion of a contract. It might end up penalising those who are fighting for human rights that are not recognised, as gay rights weren’t.
    You say ‘all these people are working against Britain therefore they should be removed from Britain – they should not be allowed take advantage of their dual citizenship.’

    The worry for me is what counts as ‘working against Britain’. We have already seen huge clampdowns on civil liberties done on the premiss that certain people are working against Britain therefore they should be removed from Britain. Again, I fear the too easy abuses of rescinding citizenship based on some antipathy against a person.

  34. Simon, many of your remarks about muslims are patent nonsense.

    e.g,

    “Don’t hold your breath. For a “cult of peace” islam is always very slow to criticise any other muslim, irrespective of deranged and evil he may be.”

    What a ridiculous generalisation!

  35. Simon Murphy : “Gay people who defend islam on ‘freedom of speech’ or ‘freedom of religion’ conditions need to ask themselves which muslim country in the world does not ban homosexuality.”

    Are you suggesting that, because most muslim countries don’t permit homosexuality, we shouldn’t permit Islam? That is a terrible argument.

  36. Father Andrew Gentry 5 Jan 2010, 7:14pm

    well here we go again. freedom of speech does not give one the right to cry fire in a crowded theater nor does it allow so called clerics of whatever stripe to incite their duped followers to kill gay people. As for Islam I think there is a legitimate question to be raised as to why there is not at least in the mainstream media a condemnation of violence and a repudiation of extremist groups who go around killing other Moslems in the name of Islam. The overwhelming majority of deaths of children and the elderly and the young have been committed by Moslem extremists not by British soldiers or any other Western “infidels” as we are called. Had it not been for British and American as well as many other Allied soldiers the UK would be a Nazi occupied country and you dear Angelica would not be allowed to speak about anything positive or negative! It is simple, either you abide by the laws of a secular humanist culture that recognizes freedom of religion and freedom from religion or you leave, and when your religion is in contradiction to the rights of all to be whom and what they are either forget your religion or practice it amongst yourselves or leave the country! If this nutter cannot accept this basic principle of multicultural diversity then put him willingly or not on the next plain to Saudi Arabia and every other nutter like him. Lastly in America there is a group of hate-filled zealots who try and disrupt the funerals of military personnel killed in action. The police rightly keeps them far away from the families who are grieving and saying a final farewell. This bigot and his group under no circumstances should be allowed to march. In fact I have a suggestion for the anti gay muslims, christians, or whomever we should find a large desolate area of land for you force you to live there and let you proceed to destroy one another so the rest of us can get on with the business of living a peaceful life!

  37. I don’t want to get into this too much, because it’s a nasty topic. But Luke, what civil liberties have been infringed lately? We still have trial by jury and habeus corpus, the two greatest protections of civil liberty known to man. We have the right to peacably assemble. We have freedom of the press. There is no blanket internment of muslims in this country despite provocation. They are still free to live, work, be educated, enjoy the same health care as everyone else, and there is even help for those who feel threatened or intimidated for being muslim. The worst that has happened is that the period under which suspects can be held without charge has been extended. And considering what some of those people are suspected of, do you really object to letting the police have time to gather evidence to prosecute them? Would you prefer them bombing Heathrow because the police had to let the go because of civil liberties.

    And in return for these freedoms, the British public get these outrageous insults under the guise of ‘freedom of speech’

    Anyone remember when the likes of Gerry Adams used to have his words spoken by an actor on the news because he was considered so outrageous? And yet this guy can say what he likes? He’s got more freedom here in the UK than he would get in the muslim countries he advocates. Yet his hatred of this free country is palpable.

  38. Simon Murphy 5 Jan 2010, 8:11pm

    No 34: Luke: you say:

    “34.

    Simon, many of your remarks about muslims are patent nonsense.
    e.g, “Don’t hold your breath. For a “cult of peace” islam is always very slow to criticise any other muslim, irrespective of deranged and evil he may be.” What a ridiculous generalisation! ”

    OK – considering that homosexual activity is punisable by death or imprisonment in virtually ALL predominantly muslim countries (secular Turkey excepted) and considering that not a single mainstream muslim organisation in Britain condemns homophobia, then I fail to see how I am generalising.

    It is a generalisation to state that islam is a cult of peace, considering this. It is not a generalisation to say that islam is homophobic considering the facts.

    I’m sort of surprised that LGBT people on here are defending the freedom of speech of a man who wants to kill them.

  39. Simon Murphy 5 Jan 2010, 8:17pm

    No 35; Luke: you ask:

    “Are you suggesting that, because most muslim countries don’t permit homosexuality, we shouldn’t permit Islam? That is a terrible argument. ”

    That is not what I am suggesting.

    What I am suggesting is that muslims who use their religion to justify murder like this psycho does, should remember that incitement to murder is a crime irrespective of whether their freely chosen cult permits it. And that if they persist in incitement to murder then the government should not feel any obligation to allow them to stay in Britain when they are in possession of a passport from another country.

    Islam is no friend of LGBT people and no-one should fool themselves into thinking it is.

  40. Simon Murphy 5 Jan 2010, 8:19pm

    No 30: Angelica: you say:

    “So much racist talk and dreams of violence on this list ”

    please specify the racist language.

    Islam is not a race remember. It is a freely chosen, voluntary set of beliefs.

  41. Simon Murphy 5 Jan 2010, 8:22pm

    No 33: Luke: you say: “You mention a ‘contract’ that all with citizenship make. I certainly don’t know of any actual contract, so perhaps you are referring to a hypothetical contract- one which should regulate our citizenship. This sounds like a very dubious notion to me. What would be the terms of the contract? Think of people like early gay rights pioneers advocating civil disobediance. I can just see a scenario in which the existence of a contract would have rescinded citizenship from such pioneers.”

    Surely you are not making a comparison between civil disobedience and advocating murder.

    I don’t recall a gay activist group EVER calling for the execution of heterosexuals.

  42. Simon Murphy 5 Jan 2010, 8:29pm

    No 32: RobN: you say:

    “The problem is Simon, hte argument is a double-edged sword – there are many out there that would like to see websites such as this closed for their “organised promotion of perversion” (in their eys) – So who is to say what is or isn’t acceptable free speech?
    As soon as you allow some, and prevent others, you have the thin end of a very nasty wedge, one that in recent times this government has tried to force using the lame blanket excuse of “prevention of terrorism”. Freedom of speech is the first and foremost human right in a civilised society. If you lose it, you are falling towards totalitarian state control. ”

    But freedom of speech is a myth. It’s a great theory but it has never existed in any civilisation.

    Doesn’t the US Bill of Rights guarantee freedom of speech with some exceptions (I think it is the example that freedom of speech does not extend to shouting ‘FIRE’ in a crowded theatre).

    Likewise Holocaust denial is a crime in many European countries. That is a limitation on freedom of speech.

    Adolf Hitler on the other hand faced no consequences for his statements in the 1930′s about Jewish people. And look what happened then… If he had faced legal sanction for incitement to murder and jailed then who knows whether millions of people would have survived.

    Freedom of speech is limited. It only applies so long as your freedom of speech does not threaten my right.

  43. i bet this guy isnt actively looking for work. He has a full time job alteady… preaching hate. he is probably ripping off his followers as well by getting them to donate to his cause and the pocketing the money. some people will follow anything..even a bad smell.

  44. if this cu*t rapist does protest, i hope the bnp/nf do the same and batter up these terrorists. (i hate the bnp/nf but we might as well get some good use out of them as these worshippers of a pedo god are 100% worse than the bnp/nf)

  45. Incidentally, there are lesbians and gays among the troops being insulted by this man and his followers for doing their duty.

  46. “I’m sort of surprised that LGBT people on here are defending the freedom of speech of a man who wants to kill them.”

    That’s exactly the sort of person that free-speech laws were created for! The person everyone militantly disagrees with!

    Simon, let’s go back to what you said:
    “Don’t hold your breath. For a “cult of peace” islam is always very slow to criticise any other muslim, irrespective of deranged and evil he may be.”

    How can Islam, being a non-human entity, ‘criticise’ a human entity? The sentence doesn’t even make sense. Perhaps you mean that the majority of muslims are slow to criticise other muslims. That is rubbish. Muslims criticise muslims all the time. Your argument implies that there is little criticism in mainly muslim countries. How absurd!
    Perhaps you mean that Islam, understood as a set of cultural, social and (perhaps political) institutions, is slow to criticise muslims. This is a rather grandiose claim. Let’s break it down. First note, any attempt to make claims about a set of widely diverging group of social, cultural and political institutions must be careful not to misrepresent the diversity of the groups in the set; there are self-defining muslims who are atheist but share cultural features with their religious brothers; there are gay followers of Islam; there are muslims varying in doctrinal matters of all sorts. Clearly, enumerating the different groups comprising this set already shows potential room for disagreement amongst muslims.
    Your generalisation is just as ridiculous as the following:

    Christians are always very slow to criticise any other Christians, irrespective of how deranged and evil they may be.

    “Doesn’t the US Bill of Rights guarantee freedom of speech with some exceptions (I think it is the example that freedom of speech does not extend to shouting ‘FIRE’ in a crowded theatre).

    Likewise Holocaust denial is a crime in many European countries. That is a limitation on freedom of speech.”

    Simon doesn’t seem to have grasped the concept of there being grounds for restricting freedom of speech. We don’t restrict speech just because it offends most people, or most people find it vulgar, or crass, or insensitive. There aren’t good grounds for restricting the speech of people marching peacefully through an area, saying hateful and bigoted things. Doing so will not violate anyone’s rights. That’s why it is so shameful that Holocaust deniers are denied the ability to spout their rubbish in many European countries.

  47. “Freedom of speech is limited. It only applies so long as your freedom of speech does not threaten my right.”

    What counts as ‘threatening your right’? I have the strange feeling it means, ‘say anything which sounds hateful towards homosexuals.’

    But of course we should be allowed to say hateful things, so long as we don’t physically harm anyone.

  48. Luke, stop going on. The bottom line is that a nasty bunch of narrow-minded bigots have proposed to do something deeply hurtful and offensive to a great many people and if this country has any collective sense the answer should be no.

  49. theotherone 5 Jan 2010, 11:23pm

    Angelica you disgust me.

    If it wasn’t for the British Army then we would be living in a world controlled by extremist Right Wingers. Between the Allies in the Second World War (a particular debt is owed by Russian and Polish troops) we would have saw Jews, Sex Workers, Communists, Socialists, Queers, the Mental Ill, people with learning disabilities and Gypsies wiped out across Europe.

    Without the Army fighting the Nationalist and Unionist groups in Northern Ireland we would have had far worse bombing campaigns in the Uk than we did.

    When you’re enjoying your ability to be controversial and Left Wing remember that, without the sacrifice of a whole generation of European youth, you would be rounded up and sent to the Gas Chambers for it.

    1. I think comparing “the War on Terror” with /actual/ wars like World War 1 and World War 2 is a very bad thing to do. The “war” in iraq and afghanistan are VERY different.

  50. Brian said: ‘I’m sure the UK Security forces has this Islamic heathen terrorist in their sights!’
    Well yes. But will they do anything about this man who advocates the slaughter of gays? Mmmmmm. We’ll wait and see!

  51. Robert, ex pat Brit 5 Jan 2010, 11:47pm

    Simon Murphy, in the U.S., freedom of speech is also limited when it comes to threatening the life of a political figure such as the president, senator or congressman or other public official, with the possibility of jail time, so its not just limited to shouting “fire” in a crowded theatre. No civilisation has total freedom of speech, though I do support the right of anyone to say harmful things as long as they don’t incite others to go out and kill someone or cause bodily harm, then that becomes a criminal offence.

    If you recall during the Thatcher years when IRA broadcasts were banned in the UK and what did it do? Precious little to stop the bombing and maming of people at home and in N. Ireland.

  52. Why not have a BBC online debate? “Should Anjem Choudary face execution?”

  53. 21stCenturySpirituality 6 Jan 2010, 1:42am

    Ive read quite enough about this low life benefit leach today. Take away his visa, put him on a plane under police escort and get him out of this country NOW. If he wants to live in an islamic state he can piss off back to the one he came from as far as I’m concerned. Our taxes shouldnt pay for this sponging hate monger to stick two fingers up to our legal system, our culture and our values.

  54. As gay folk we need to realise we subsidize these fanatical religious whores. We generally pay taxes at the highest rate – as single people even when we’ve been in a relationship all our adult lives – and we get the least from it.
    Glad to see the UK has the balls to stand up to freaks like this. Here in the US we have the likes of Phelps and his inbreds who are rarely banned from their ‘free speech’.
    Speech is never ‘free’ when it is cloaked in hatred and bigotry.

  55. Dear Friends

    As a gay man I am very much aware of the hatred fascists like Anjem Choudary and his Islam4Uk followers have towards us, and others.
    Whatever our political views, people like Choudary should not be allowed to voice their opinions unchallenged.
    If the planned march in Wootton Bassett by Choudary and his clowns go ahead, can we please, please show them the gay voice by planning a gay festival march to ridicule them?
    Remember, Choudary is no better than Griffin.

  56. Jean-Paul Bentham 6 Jan 2010, 3:00am

    Simon Murphy,

    Health, prosperity and peace of mind in 2010, mate.

    Keep up the good work.

  57. Jean-Paul Bentham 6 Jan 2010, 5:59am

    The plane! The plane!

  58. This piece of scum receives £25,000 per year from the British tax payer – but hates everything British so why does he not go and live elsewhere? probably because he would have to work and no where else in the world would put up with his incitement of hate.

    Why are we so dam spineless in the UK – he said Peter Mandleson should be stoned to death for being gay -why was he never charged with incitement to murder -if we when out and called for Choudary to be murdered you would find the police knocking at your door.

    Im ashamed to be British at times when we allowed this filth to continue his hatred

    Mark

  59. Bishop Ioan 6 Jan 2010, 9:45am

    It’s ridiculous to let this piece of filth mouth his nonsense. I think he ought to be deported as soon as possible. This idnivdual is calling for the deaths of GLBT people (and if they got in power, there would be a lot of others on the list). When is the West going to regain a survival instinct and DO something?!

    Fr. Andrew is right–had Birtish, Americans and other Allied troops not faught and defeated the Axis, there’d be no free speech at all. Let’s not let these people turn ANY country into a Muslim theocracy. And make no mistake that is what people like this want to do to Britain, America, and ever other non-Muslim nation on earth. I have no problems with people practing their faith peacefully, but if they start calling for the death of others you can be damned sure I will have something to say.

  60. Simon Murphy 6 Jan 2010, 11:54am

    No 47: Luke: You ask:

    “What counts as ‘threatening your right’? I have the strange feeling it means, ‘say anything which sounds hateful towards homosexuals.’”

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-11708.html/

    Calling for homosexuals to be stoned to death sounds specifically like threatening my right to life.

    My right to life is more important than his right to express his wish to murder me.

    If you are claiming otherwise then you have serious issues.

    You’ll be bleating about ‘freedom of speech’ when you’re being sent to the camps.

    Tell me Luke – do you think that Germany had the right idea in the 1930′s to allow the Nazis to call for the murder and execution of the Jews?

  61. Simon Murphy 6 Jan 2010, 12:09pm

    By the way – I do think that he has the right to protest peacefully. But considering that he plans to protest a commemoration calling dead soldiers ‘Baby-killers’ and ‘rapists’ in front of the dead soldiers grieving families means that his right to ‘freedom of speech’ is instantly cancelled. If he proceeds with his protests then there will be violence, rioting and possibly murder.

    Do you support violence, rioting and murder in the name of ‘free speech’

    You need to stop splitting hairs. This place is not some arcane philosophy seminar. The real world is not decided by some arcane theories.

    And remember no society in history has ever had absolute freedom of speech. It is a conditional freedom, always has been, always will be.

  62. Jean-Paul Bentham 6 Jan 2010, 12:24pm

    Why – tell me why – are the moderate Muslims in the UK so silent about this heretical insanity in Islam??

    In many ways, silence means consent, don’t they know that?

    And then they’ll wonder why we stay away from them.

  63. Jean-Paul Bentham:- Actually many Muslims & Muslim Groups have condemned Islam4UK and have said that if this rally does go ahead they demonstrate against it.

  64. So anyone who protests against Choudry is a racist, according to Angelica. How very open minded and free from prejudice.

    This man cannot be deported because of a naive piece of legislation devised and directed by the EU in the European Human Rights Act. Another example of things not being thought through when politicians want to make a press statement about “rights”

  65. “According to The Sun, the father-of-four receives over £15,000 in housing benefit, to live in a £320,000 house in Leytonstone, East London. The cleric is also given a £1,820 council tax allowance, £5,200 in income support and £3,120 in child benefits, totalling £25,740.

    By contrast, a private fighting the Taliban in the Afghan badlands is paid a basic £16,680 – or £13,430 after tax.
    Choudary, who lives in a £350,000 East-London home, also has his rent paid for by Waltham Forest Council.”

    This is the kind of MAN you are dealing with.

    SELF SELF SELF ( Islam my @rse )

  66. “Speaking to the media, Choudry said Lord Mandelson should be re-educated about the “evils” of homosexuality – but would be executed if he confessed to a queer relationship.

    He added: “If a man likes another man, it can happen. But if you go on to fulfil your desire, there is a punishment to follow.”

    WHY IS THIS SICK IDIOT NOT DEPORTED.

  67. Mihangel apYrs 6 Jan 2010, 2:11pm

    this sicko is British, born, bred, got passport.

    So there’s nowhere we can send him

  68. Har Davids 6 Jan 2010, 3:23pm

    Let him and his fellow-loonies do his walkies, but don’t forget to ask the BNP to attend. Killing two birds with one stone, wasn’t that an expression?

  69. Jean-Paul Bentham 6 Jan 2010, 3:23pm

    J Abrams (65):

    Your algebra makes perfect sense to me!

    Mihangel ap Yrs: Bonne et Heureuse Année 2010, mate.

  70. Joe Johnston 6 Jan 2010, 3:29pm

    Oh but there is somewhere we can send him Mihangel ap Yrs – stand him in front of me and I’ll show you where I’ll send him – and he won’t be coming back

  71. theotherone 6 Jan 2010, 3:33pm

    there’s nowhere we can send him

    —Perhaps we should send him to Coventry?

  72. Mihangel apYrs 6 Jan 2010, 3:46pm

    Jean-Paul
    je vous remercie, et a vous aussi.

    J’espere que cet an est mieux que le dernier pour notre famille

  73. What has poor coventry done to deserve him!!!!

  74. so we pay him to live here nad enjoy the benefits of a basically civilised society which he wants to subvert. Strip him of his citizenship and send him and all his ilk to Bagdad or Theran; they would like it there (not; no benefits system you see!) Allah will provide eh?

  75. 21stCenturySpirituality 6 Jan 2010, 5:28pm

    Choudary says he wants to live in an islamic state so stop his benefits and take away his british citizenship, put him on a plane under police escort and fly him to the nearest islamic state. Why has this man not been charged with contempt of court?
    While this man gets £25000 a year as he sticks two fingers up to our legal system, our culture and our values, and makes no useful or positive contribution to this country at all, there are people sleeping rough on the streets who dont even know where there next meal is coming from who are far more deserving and who make a far more positive contribution to this country than this asshole, who get little or no benefits at all. I work for two homeless charities and I see this first hand. Its wrong, so so wrong.

  76. If a leftie-type dares defend him…. lol ;)

    This guy is a media whore, and you know what… it’s working.

  77. This group should be allowed their democratic right to protest, reagrdless of the fact they do not support the democracy that gives them taht right.

    The Police should be instructed to advise them that they can have their demonstration in a remote part of the edge of the town, say a field. Other people should be kept away, including the media. This will starve them of the oxygen of publicity they want and prevent trouble whilst allowing them their right to protest. Any attempt by the group to move away from the designated area would be viewed as an act likely to cause a breach of the peace and they should be arrested.

    Everyone wins – they cannot say their rights have been breached and none of us are forced to listen to the crap they have to spew. It becomes a non-event. WB council could license a party for the centre of town and get in a massive sound system so that whatever noise the protest makes is drowned out completely.
    They could put up a stage in the high street so that no-one could see the protest going on behind it…

  78. theotherone 6 Jan 2010, 10:45pm

    What has poor coventry done to deserve him!!!!

    –good point

  79. Pumpkin Pie 7 Jan 2010, 2:37am

    There needs to be more unity amongst the ranks of those opposed to hate. I’ve seen a lot of people on this site say that more moderate muslims should protest the radicals. They don’t because they don’t feel that these people speak for them or about them – unlike those of us looking in, they regard the radicals as being nothing to do with them. No, we shouldn’t expect them to campaign on our behalf – they should be invited to join existing campaigns. This [x] group against [x] group is a load of rubbish. People who are against hate, no matter who they are, should all consider each other allies, because our enemies (al-Qaeda, the BNP, Islam4UK, United People of Luton, whatever) CAN’T do that. It’s impossible for them.

    I heard an interesting story about the aftermath of the Luton shenanigans. In response to the anti-soldier protest, some Luton natives tried to set fir to a random mosque. The moderate native population did nothing. You know what the moderate muslim poulation did? Held their own anti-radical protest to hound the radicals out of town. If all the moderate people of that town were united, neither the muslim nor British radicals would have been allowed to get as far as they did.

    Also, one final note: I think it is disgusting that anybody could think protesting a war and the actions of service people in wars should be banned. Hate speech should be (so, no, I’m not condoning anything Islam4UK does, seeing as how they are very hateful), but why can only white people protest the war? A little decorum should be required – picketing funerals is disgraceful – but otherwise, the army should not be protected from demonstrations.

  80. Why do some people think that these muslims are radical and others are not – they’ve obviously not read the koran or hadith. Islam is a radical ideology. Full stop. It’s radical to exectute men and women for being gay, like the authorities do in saudi arabia, yemen, iran, iraq, etc, or put them in prison for 10-15 years, like they do in countless other islamic countries.

    Next time anyone thinks that a muslim should have the freedom to say what they want, they should take a few minutes silence and think about the gay men and women who are DEAD or persecuted in the name of allah.

    For a gay man or womam to defend freedom of speech for the islamic ideology is like a jew defending a nazis freedom of speech – its masochistic, or uneducated about the reality of islam.

    And if you’re a gay muslim – you’re suffering from stockholm syndrome.

    I’ll leave you with a quote from islamic text that you think they should have the freedom to educate people with and which is used to murder and persecute gay men and women as we speak……

    “When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes.”

    “Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to.”

  81. Pumpkin Pie 8 Jan 2010, 5:29am

    Why do some people think that these muslims are radical and others are not – they’ve obviously not read the koran or hadith. Islam is a radical ideology. Full stop.

    There’s stuff just like this in the Bible, and we all know plenty of moderate Christians. Only fundamentalists take their sacred texts literally, others just see it as part of their culture. And there’s the key word: culture. What sort of culture a person was brought up in, and what sort of values they were taught, are far more important than what religion they follow.

    I’m an atheist, so why am I sticking up for muslims? One of my best pals is a muslim. Lovely guy, hard worker, loves his LGBT friends. Just your average Mr. Nice Guy. I hate the thought of him being told what he can and cannot believe thanks to paranoid mobs out on their anti-Islamist witch hunts. By all means curtail the specious “rights” of religious institutions, but don’t trample on people who have done nothing wrong. This is how you help the terrorists turn moderates into radicals. People don’t like being oppressed.

  82. these fundamentalists (muslim,christians etc etc) should not have the right to preach hate and intolerance in this way! free-speech my ass! so whats the fuss all about when people burnt the Koran?!? thats free speech surely! (ps: I do not agree with this either) respect and love thats what we all need despite our differences (cultural, sexuality, religion etc)

  83. I wonder if all this would be going on now if stupid man made religions were never invented.

    The best thing to do if this march goes ahead is just to ignore the bastard.
    He really doesn’t deserve the effort or attention he’s getting.
    He’s just some angry gay hating bum who needs to get a job and get on with his own life……
    And if he really doesn’t like the way this country is run then he knows where the door is and by all means he should use it !!

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