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Welsh rugby star Gareth Thomas reveals he’s gay

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  1. Brian Burton 19 Dec 2009, 1:28pm

    I just wonder how many more of these huge Rugby-Football players are still in the closset? Gareth Thomas is someone who would deck a homophobic trouble maker.

  2. What an inspiring man!

  3. Now how many soccer stars are in the closet?

  4. I’m so proud of him. What a positive role model, and a world away from the stereotypes. I can’t applaud this enough, especially if he carries on his playing career at the top….. FINALLY a positive message about gay masculinity.

  5. Here is what homophobic BBC sport news has said:
    “Gareth Thomas has broken one of the major taboos that surround sport”
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/8421956.stm

  6. Take a look at the sensitive approach the Daily Mail have used compared to the BBC I was most surprised with the Daily Mail but not the BBC.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1237035/British-Lions-rugby-legend-Gareth-Thomas-Its-ended-marriage-nearly-driven-suicide-Now-time-tell-world-truth–Im-gay.html#comments

  7. I’m glad he’s had a good reaction from family and colleagues, but the denial and fear he went through show that some sections of life and society are still in the 195Os. Rugby is also a strange world in this regard. Straight players who have sex together ‘as a laugh’ can be nonetheless virulently homophobic. The ‘why didn’t you tell us – we don’t care’ reaction from fellow-players is also infuriating – we’re supposed to be mind-readers! Lots still to do!

  8. Cleggy – sadly being homosexual *is* still a major taboo in many sports. As Alfie’s story shows, he was worried that being out would affect his career so stepped into the closet and shut the door behind him. There are still many deeply closeted sports stars particularly in the various football codes for the same reason. I am off to the Emirates this afternoon to watch at least 22 players on the pitch – law of averages states a couple at least should be gay but none are out as being gay in football is taboo.

  9. Daniel Wilkes 19 Dec 2009, 3:20pm

    Has anyone else noticed that the Daily Mail has been printing some very gay-positive stories recently? Maybe with the whole Jan Moir business they finally realised that the vast majority of their readers don’t have a problem with people being gay, and that it therefore no longer makes business sense to demonise them constantly?

    Well done to Gareth Thomas for being so brave, I just wish more gay/bi men in sport (there must be more than three!) would grow some.

    (It is interesting to note that the Mail still isn’t quite adept at being sensitive to gay people… it referred to Gareth’s attractions as “urges” whilst he called them “feelings”. Or maybe I’m just being too cynical?)

  10. Adrian Tippetts 19 Dec 2009, 3:32pm

    Daily Mail readers are more bothered about crackpot health and safety laws stopping little Jimmy playing conkers at school and government corruption. I don’t believe most of its readers are all that homophobic. Congratulations to the newspaper for handling the story with sensitivity. I can’t believe I am hearing myself say this, but it seems Paul Dacre is doing far more to enlighten its readers than the BBC does.

  11. One step forward in challanging the taboo of gays and lesbians in sport . . . lets hope this will inspire more rugby and football players to come out of the closet.

  12. Patrick James 19 Dec 2009, 3:45pm

    It is great he has come out. He is so far away from the stereotype of a gay man.

  13. Fair play to him. It’s strange that rugby has a reputation for being a fiercely macho and hetrosexual game and yet from this it appears that rugby players are far more understanding and supportive of their gay teammates than their ‘less tough’ football counterparts.
    If only footballers could get this level of acceptance when they come out of the closet.

  14. It seems to me that Gay men can and do shag women…

  15. This is a great Christmas present and one in the eye for those who insist that all gay men are limp wristed fairies. Encouraging too the majority response which is supportive.

    Agree with Daniel Wilkes at the susprise that it is the Daly Mail running the main story but let’s be a little cautious. The real telling point will be how the tabloids treat any ‘kiss and tell’ story. They will already be out there with their wallets trying to persuade someone to spill the beans.

  16. i think this will mean a lot to very masculine guys in the closet and be of great psychological support. some may even come out as well which would be great.
    He is a fantastic role model for youngsters to.

  17. The Daily Mail writer may have handled it sensitively, but I notice a lot of comments there criticising Gareth for being so cruel to his wife and suggesting he is selfish for only thinking of his own happiness. The pressures on gay men to ‘conform’ and live a hetero lie as he felt he had to do is of no interest to them. Yes, a gay man can shag a woman, as Niki so sensitively put it. But it does neither him nor her any good if its a lie.

  18. Vincent Poffley 19 Dec 2009, 6:48pm

    Personally I don’t see this as at all interesting or significant. A lot of people seem to be of the opinion that this “shows that gay people can be masculine”. I find this a rather backward attitude in itself. The problem with it is that it reinforces the ancient, noxious and patriarchal stereotype that masculine = huge, hairy, thuggish brutes. It suggests that masculine = violent, competitive, ugly, emotionally stunted and crude. I mean just look at the hideous hulk in the photograph – if that’s “masculine” then I fail to see why anybody is remotely impressed by it. It’s not masculine of course, or at least it certainly doesn’t have to be. Traditional ideas of masculinity are social constructed, and there is nothing preventing them from being constructed in very different ways indeed. Throughout history we have seen all kinds of different constructions of masculinity, including many that would emphasise civilized, humane, intellectual and compassionate virtues, rather than the sort of moronic thuggery emphasised by the crude, lumbering sportsmen of today.

    Of course, if one does happen to be six foot six, have no appreciable neck, two cauliflower ears and distinctly fewer teeth than the factory standard, there’s nothing intrinsically wrong with that. But nor is there anything intrinsically wrong or unmanly with being five foot six, slender, well-groomed and entirely unconcerned with contests of physical strength. We need to get away from outdated concepts of masculinity, indeed we need to abandon the idea that “masculinity” and “femininity” are fixed concepts at all. Every man is different, as is every woman, and it diminishes all of humanity to arbitrarily prescribe narrow behaviour patterns for each gender as idealised normative aspirations.

  19. Brave decision – good for him. Hope his mates support him publicly. What a shame it wasn’t one of the yummy players!

  20. I dont condone lying Rose and try to be out. but being out is an ongoing process. you dont come out all the time … it would be a full time job. i cant imagine the tough world this guy is coming from and the pain they both went through. But peoples fight for survival is frighteningly powerful and can outweigh all else. I would expect daily mail readers to show sympathy for the partner solely and ignore his pain because they have a limited perspective of the world of homphobia. for example look at the people who contribute to their paper and help to define their limited view.

  21. vulpus_rex 19 Dec 2009, 8:05pm

    Gwneud yn dda! welcome out of the closet to my fellow welshman.

  22. In reply to ‘niki’:-

    I think that you need to understand the social pressure that Gareth and all closeted men are under. Gareth felt like his whole world would shatter if he came out. I guess life took him down a certain path with his ex Jemma, maybe the desire to have kids.

    Everyone needs somebody close in their life. Don’t be so quick to judge that ‘gay men can and do shag women’ as some sort of simple deceit on our part. For example, there are plenty of lesbian women out there who take a male partner because of social pressures, desire to have kids or fear of coming out.

    Gareth has come out as a gay man. Not bisexual. Please respect that.

  23. In reply to ‘Vincent Poffley’ (?):-

    Your desire to view masculinity and feminity as a simple social construction is absurd. There’s a biological and evolutionary basis to sex and gender which cannot be ignored.

    In your comment, you try to assert that the borders of masculinity and feminity should blur, whilst yourself constructing the nature of those boundaries for everyone. Don’t you find that ironic?

    Also, your ‘viewpoint’ that all sportsmen are the embodiment of ‘moronic thuggery’ is in itself your own construction and an insult to brilliant, emotional and thoroughly human people we happen to call sportsmen.

    I would suggest you take stock of why you have asserted those strongly-held points of view and examine your deeper, more congruent, thoughts and feelings for answers.

  24. All too often we see the BBC promoting nasty stereotypes of gay men. Jonathan Ross is one of the worst offenders. Here – surrounded by his colluding ‘poofs’ – Jonathan exclaims “This isn’t the sort of situation I’d normally want to be on my knees in ..”

  25. Just read the Daily Mail article, its well written and moving. No one should live a lie, so well done Gareth for being true to yourself and coming out. Be your own man, Good luck.

  26. @ Vincent Poffley (18): Thanks for an intelligent post. Some of the responses to this story were really starting to depress me.

    @ yepitsme (23): ‘I would suggest you take stock of why you have asserted those strongly-held points of view and examine your deeper, more congruent, thoughts and feelings for answers.’ Well, I’d suggest you take a look at why you find the suggestion that the categories of ‘masculine’ and ‘feminine’ can’t claim any authority in ‘nature’ so threatening.

  27. @Charlie

    Sorry, your comment is confused. I think I understand what you are saying. Nobody has suggested that masculinity or femininity cannot be accounted for, in some part, in biological terms. It absolutely can. That is exactly my point.

  28. I am glad he has come out to himself. It’s not really good for anyone going beyond, say about, twenty-five without coming to terms with it.

    All the best for the future.

  29. All we need now is a little Prada clad foot to step out of the same closet and we can all…have a buon natale.

  30. Yes, and it seems there’s now going to be a proper investigation into the Daily Mail over the Gately thing – this story smacks of them strategically sandbagging the front door before the floods arrive. But whatever their motives, well done Gareth Thomas, this is a very positive thing in a sport still stuck in about 1980.

  31. Some of the daily mail reader comments are bigoted even whilst “trying” to be positive. For example, one comment reads “good luck to him in his new lifestyle”. That bloody word “lifestyle” again, grrr. Maybe then they’ll start printing about us gay people in the “lifestyle” section of the Sunday papers eh? ;)

  32. Têtuniçois 19 Dec 2009, 11:58pm

    As a french gay citizen i want to say ” congratulations and thank you mister Gareth Thomas” . He is a great man !

  33. Simon Murphy 20 Dec 2009, 12:24am

    Well done Gareth Thomas. Good for you.

  34. Yepitsme wrote
    “Your desire to view masculinity and feminity as a simple social construction is absurd. There’s a biological and evolutionary basis to sex and gender which cannot be ignored.”

    . . . . .

    I agree there is a biological component to sex and gender, but there is also a social construction at work as well

    One only needs to look at the binary distinctions in stereotypes to see gender performance in action, with blurring of the boundaries in drag pointing to parody; but is there a real and authentic copy of a man or a women to accurately base this parody on. . . It appears not . . . perhaps due to complexity because it is contingent.

    At a biological level we all vary in the amounts of our oestrogens or testosterone, with gradations naturally producing variance morphologically speaking in terms of perceived gender . . . but then again this perception of gender is also subject to variance evident in the changing gendered fashions through out time.

    At a cursory glance one could say that it appears from the 18th century onwards men have been taking of their finery, wigs, make up and jewellery and weighing women down with these adornments.

  35. For a man in his sport, it is obviously a massive decision to own up and admit who and what you are.

    It’s never easy for anyone to admit being Welsh. ;)

  36. Vincent Poffley 20 Dec 2009, 1:46am

    Sex (an anatomical phenomenon) can indeed be explained in exclusively biological terms. Gender (a psychological phenomenon) has both biological and cultural inputs. Ideas of “masculinity” and “femininity” are neither of these things. They are entirely arbitrary cultural constructs, as evinced by the fact that different cultures have vastly different conceptions of these two categories, and indeed the constructions of the same culture can change drastically over time. What classical Greeks considered “masculine” behaviour is nothing like what modern Greeks, or modern Chinese, or early modern European aristocrats consider “masculine” behaviour for instance, and their individual conceptions conform strongly to their wider cultural attitudes. Culture is not biologically determined.

    And yes, I do think it would be a very good thing if our current arbitrary conceptions of “masculine” and “feminine” behaviour converged to the extent that they were no longer meaningful labels. I find the idea that there is one sort of behaviour that is the special and privileged preserve of males and another that is the special and privileged preserve of females little short of insulting. It needlessly creates in and out groups, stigmatises those who do not conform to arbitrary categories and creates immense discord and unhappiness among the excluded.

    As for sportsmen… I am still entirely unconvinced that there is any societal, as opposed to merely personal, value or merit to what they do. I shall continue to bemoan their unreasonably elevated place in modern culture at the expense of genuinely talented, important and worthwhile individuals, such as writers, philosophers, scientists and academics. The only advantage I can see to sports is the rather agreeable effect they tend have on the appearance of the male physique – an effect sadly wasted on the sort of hideous lumbering hulks who tend to make up the majority of most rugby teams.

  37. For a man in his sport, it is obviously a massive decision to own up and admit who and what you are.
    It’s never easy for anyone to admit being Welsh.

    Being a Welsh man and gay who works abroad quiet a lot I find a lot of English people pronounce themselves
    as being British is this because of some hidden shame about having to admit to being English? Gay yes English only when it suits you!

  38. Penfold, it’s just the tail end of imperialism. England just isn’t big enough for them!!!

  39. Mihangel apYrs 20 Dec 2009, 10:34am

    @Vincent Poffley
    it’s all about positive role models and encouraging young guys of a certain mindset that “butch” rugby players can be gay. The saddest parts are, firstly that he married and thus screwed up two lives, and secondly had to hide his sexuality because he thought it would destroy his career (he’s only a year or so from leaving the playing game)

  40. If only I had known as a boy that to be brave and adventurous you did not have to give up being gay

  41. Penfold: a) It was a joke, and I have no problem with the Welsh. and b) Why is it the Welsh, Irish and particularly the Scots all love to claim their nationality, whilst the English just get on with it?

    I am seventh generation pure-bred English, (I know because of the genological research done by my aunt), – which is quite a rare thing. I am staunchly proud of my heritage, and whenever asked my nationality, I ALWAYS state ”English’.

    Oh, and Rose, The British Empire was just that – The Scots, Irish and Welsh also dominated half the planet at one time, so don’t just blame us English when it suits you.

  42. Vincent Poffley wrote
    “I find the idea that there is one sort of behaviour that is the special and privileged preserve of males and another that is the special and privileged preserve of females little short of insulting. It needlessly creates in and out groups, stigmatises those who do not conform to arbitrary categories and creates immense discord and unhappiness among the excluded.”

    . . . . . . . . . . . .

    I think the case of Castor the South African female athlete highlights this. Remember the huge fuss made over her biological gender, her hermaphrodism sening the committees into a spin over the true nature of her gender, and how dare she cross boundaries was the message that was given out.

    In relation to Gareth Thomas . . . yes gays can be macho and play Rugby . . . I should no it was compuslory at my school.

  43. John K – are you saying being gay was compulsory at your school?! :P

  44. Lucio Buffone 20 Dec 2009, 1:51pm

    Please find a more flattering picture of the guy! Trust me, there are quite a few out there

  45. JonB . . . lol . . . you can wish

  46. This is a great day. This could do more for moving equality forward than years of campaigning. Equally, it could be hugely detrimental if he gets treated badly in the coming weeks.

    How the public acts now is crucial! Until then…good on em!

    http://stevehynd.wordpress.com/2009/12/20/the-only-gay-in-the-premiership/

  47. Great news this! Let’s hope other gay sportsmen/women will follow his example. What a hunk too!!

  48. RobN, sweetie, the only thing we Irish have ever dominated is the Eurovision Song Contest. We’re not Empire builders.

  49. A gay man that’s not camp, comedic or tradgic.

    Maybe the BBC might like to take note!

  50. Pete & Michael 21 Dec 2009, 10:03am

    I can fully understand the trauma that Gareth has been through, as his experience echoes what I (Pete) had gone through in my earlier life. Homosexuality was not decriminalised until around 1969, trying to meet other people was hard, my mother knew I was homosexual (mothers always do), my father virtually disowned me. Perhaps to please them, I too got married, probably because of pressure from the establishment, it was a good marriage and we had two children, towards my fortieth year, I knew I could not carry on and after 14 years of marriage, my wife divorced me because of my homosexual tendencies, I have been very lucky in meeting my now civil partner, now of 26 yrs, very soon after being divorced. I had been suicidal and in those days no-one to confide in, so one can understand that Gareth too felt the same. Having children from a hetrosexual relationship will help, because to them, one is still their daddy or mummy and being of a different sexual orientation will never matter. My ex-wife did go onto another marriage and have a son, and all of us meet from time to time.

  51. “RobN, sweetie, the only thing we Irish have ever dominated is the Eurovision Song Contest. We’re not Empire builders.”

    Well said Roe. Poor RobN has a rather fleeting grasp on history, especially any that reflects badly on his love of colonialism.

  52. (Sorry, Rose, not Roe!)

  53. Brian Burton 21 Dec 2009, 11:20am

    I say ‘Mr. Huuuuge’ Rugger player. Can I play in your yard?…..From my earliest days and my sexperiance of big muscle-men (I’ve had a few!) they loved Gay sex but always pretended they were straight! Most of them verypassive too!

  54. Rose: I was referring to the Northern Irish ie: Still part of the British Empire. Not the nation of potato farmers.

    And Will, check your history circa 1850 and have a look on a map from that date. Half the globe is pink – (That’s us).

  55. please find a more flattering photo, there must be plenty as Gareth is a very good looking guy, but this one is rather scary!!

  56. (Vincent, post18: it doesn’t diminish the fact that Gareth’s decision to come out is a brave one. If it empowers those gay and bi lads playing in the local club, to open up and be themselves, and helps make people more understanding, and less prejudiced – all well and good.)

  57. Mihangel apYrs 21 Dec 2009, 1:50pm

    for the sake of suffering humanity USE A DIFFERENT PHOTO!!

    He actually looks passable in other photoes, so why use this one? (I know it’s on his autobiography, but really!)

  58. Whats all this fuss about Imperialism and Welsh/ English debate stuff? This is about a man, like many of us, who has come out and deserves support! Well done him! (however, if it had been Lawrence Delagglio or Beh Cohen I would most likely have wet myself!)

  59. “And Will, check your history circa 1850 and have a look on a map from that date. Half the globe is pink – (That’s us)”

    You, not “us”. No surprise you’re living ion the past. Move on, grow up, and get into this century. I find your racist little tirades rather pathetic, and usually on a par with the bottom feeder level of intelligence I have come to expect from you.

  60. Kate wrote at #30: “this story smacks of them strategically sandbagging the front door before the floods arrive.” Hmmm. Could well be, Kate. Good observation.

    RobN wrote at #35: “It’s never easy for anyone to admit being Welsh.” Enough of your xenophobia, RobN. We all know where you have stood on anything “foreign”. And, for your enlightenment, let me tell you that the Welsh are very proud to be state that they are Welsh – as well they should be.

    RobN further wrote at #41: “Why is it the Welsh, Irish and particularly the Scots all love to claim their nationality, whilst the English just get on with it? The English “just get on with it”? You live in your own little fantasy, RobN. You clearly haven’t lived and worked widely abroad. I see in a later post you have clapped your eyes on an old national map at some point. Yes, much of the globe was red/pink, yes, “British”, but “British” meant “English”, “London”, “The King” or “The Queen”! And it is Englishness that unfortunately you can still find traces of all over the globe! Statues of that ugly queen Victoria for a starter, in every goddamn corner of the old “empire” with a train of statues of ENGLISH Tory public-school gits in tow! Get out a bit, travel, and LEARN, RobN. How many times have you been told on these threads, eh?

    RobN also writes: “I am seventh generation pure-bred English”. LOL! “Pure-bred English”. Oh, yes, and wot woz ya before that, me matey, eh? C’mon, tell us. Or did you slap the books shut in disgust! Most probably you’re descended from those Germanic hordes that invaded this island and chased the true Britons into the mountains of Wales and Scotland. (Do you even know that centuries ago they still spoke Welsh in Edinburgh?)

    For the first time this year I have not so far received a Xmas card from a straight Daily-Mail-reading ex-neighbour and I don’t think I WILL be receiving one in the few days left. In an email to him in the middle of the year I mentioned, for the first time, the word “homophobia”. He hasn’t been in touch with me since! He was prepared to accept that my partner and I were “so so”, but the word “gay” or “homosexual” was never to be used. I suspect he detests the very concept of “homophobia”.

    It’ll be interesting to see what happens when Gareth next enters a football arena, whether homophobes jeer at him in any way. If they do, will they be arrested? They should be.

  61. Robert Wares 21 Dec 2009, 6:06pm

    I think when the day comes we hear about another gay player and there’s no remarks upon it. Is the day, compete acceptance is here. I don’t think a man sexuality is Really worthy of any comment as it’s his own business. But I’m pleased he’s broken the mould as far as sportmen are concerned. For he’s no obviously gay stereotype of a man!

  62. Comment by Pete & Michael — December 21, 2009 @ 10:03

    There lies the rub.

    You have the poor wife, lied to by her partner for umpteen decades.

    The kids, if their were any, losing a family situation.

    The instigator, ie the Gay man who decided to come out thus spoiling the above.

    “Nowhere”, is it ever said that the bloody society that enforced its own pre-determined attitudes caused this situation.

    Don’t be that way. Go on. Have a wife, have a kid..
    BE NORMAL, AS IS EXPECTED OF YOU.

    Been their, got the hat, T shirt and bored with the latest book.

    Funny thing is. I applaud this man.

    It will not be his colleagues, team players etc that will destroy him. It will be the ignorant pointless bloody media.

  63. Eddy: “British” did NOT mean English, you socialist cretin. The Scottish Highlanders and the Welsh guards were both very proud of their achievements in India and the Far East. Back then, they saw themselves as all one country, before all this separatist crap drove a stake through the heart of this once great nation.

    As for what was my family before 1720? We couldn’t find records. That’s as far as we could take the research. Try to find many families that can go back much better than that. In your case I doubt you could discover who your own parents were, but I can guess already they weren’t married.

    Oh, and just because you don’t get any Christmas cards this year, it’s not because people are homophobic. You’re just a red-card carrying, unpatriotic, despicable little turd.

  64. This is fantastic news. It’s sad that Alfie felt the need to go so deep into the closet that he would marry a woman who he couldn’t love fully. Hopefully he will be a happy man now and I’m sure the gents will be lining up to get a date with him (the photo of Alfie is terrible BTW – he looks waay better than that ;)).

    Fair play to Mt Thomas and I hope his coming out makes it easier for other players to come out.

  65. @ Yeptistme (27): No, you’re the confused one. ‘Masculine’ and ‘feminine’ are simply gender terms and as such are ENTIRELY culturally determined.

  66. “Try to find many families that can go back much better than that”

    LOL! What is this, a school yard? Everyone’s families go back that far, you fool. Why not go find a 5 year old to have a pissing contest with, you seem to be more in their league than ours.

    I’ve scratched things of my shoes that have more humanity and intelligence than that sub-par degenerate that refers to itself as RobN.

  67. all families go far back… to the first living cells, in fact. (rob, I assume you have traced more than just the male-male-male-male etc line? what is so significant bout this line, genetically speaking?

  68. Will: You are a f_ckwit; What I’m trying to say is it’s virtually impossible to research any further as there are no records. I’m not saying my family isn’t older, just that any history of it stops there.

    Adrian: Yes, I was surprised myself to find that across all my family tree it was entirely English. (Not even Welsh, Scottish or Irish) – Mind you, that has good reason. Back then there was little geographical movement, let alone immigration, and people often were born, lived and died within a ten mile radius of their birthplace.
    I’m not trying to be nationalistic or anything, but I am rather proud that I have a unusually strongly defined geographical origin.
    It seems to many it’s OK to spout their British heriatage as long as they are not English, as it’s us that seem to get that bad rap for everything the British ever did, from the Magna Carta to the Poll tax. Oh, and of course, all English are naturally born Tories.

  69. “What I’m trying to say is it’s virtually impossible to research any further as there are no records.”

    And does anyone care that this is an excuse for your infantile racism? No.

    You are a fool of impressive proportions.

  70. Will: What exactly is racist about being proud of your own country?
    Why do socialist twats like you equate patriotism with bigotry?

  71. To be fair to the BBC, they have given Gareth Thomas a lot of news coverage today, for example this half-hour interview.

    However Gareth really wanted to help other young people, and the BBC does little to help them on children’s TV.

  72. RobN: “I was referring to the Northern Irish ie: Still part of the British Empire. Not the nation of potato farmers.”

    What’s more pathetic than you being a racist, is the lack of any wit or intelligence when making a racist remark….

  73. RobN, you make me LAUGH. I have just read your comment at #63 and I am LAUGHING.

    I’ve done massive research on my father’s side and got back further in time than you have done and I could say the same thing if there was ANY value in it, i.e. I could CROW that on my father’s side going back well over 300 years I am “PURE English”! But why bother? What’s in it? What’s better about that than being proud, let’s say, that going back 300 years on my father’s side I am “PURE African” or “PURE Spanish”! What’s in it? What’s the pathetic pride in this length of geographical “purity”?

    And, by the way, you can’t start squeaking that “British” doesn’t mean “English” with regard to the pinking of “half the globe”, as you said, when clearly YOUR PRIDE is in the Englishness of that pinking.

    What happened to you, RobN? Too many copies of old Empire-based “Boys Own” annuals when you were a kid? Was your father in the homeguard? A Captain Mannering?

    Anyway, very happy for you that you “can’t” get back any further than your “Pure English” line of 300 years. One would hate for you to manage to get back further and find that you’re descended like most English people from European invaders. I am. And I have no problem with it. 400 years ago my father’s line crossed the channel from Holland. I could CROW, in your style, that going back 500 years I am “PURE Dutch”! But why bother? What’s in it? What is all this British Nationalism that you’re about RobN? (Oh, and don’t, please, try to convince us again that you’re not BNP but you’re UKIP – we’ve heard you bleating that line before!)

  74. And let’s all remember that RobN has stated in these threads in the past that the main reason he comes on here is because “I like a good row!”

  75. “And let’s all remember that RobN has stated in these threads in the past that the main reason he comes on here is because “I like a good row!”

    You said it Eddy. A lot of frustration and unresolved anger there, in Mr. Neal. Its not wonder he’s under an imposed celibacy (as he himself admits to), I doubt it truly voluntary. I wouldn’t mind, I can accept difference of opinion and even the right to hold extreme view points, but racism is deplorable… its the recourse of the uneducated and deeply insecure, after all.

    Pity is, we have to endure the crap that comes with it.

  76. Will & Eddy: Why don’t you two go get a room somewhere?
    You can share anecdotes and wave your red flags together.

  77. Eddy, this is how the egocentric Mr. Neal describes himself on one of his many ingratiating sites about himself: “Strong willed, opinionated, sometimes dark, creative, technical, generous, cynical, artistic, funny, passionate, argumentative and not always the easiest of people to get on with, but getting to know me will reap benefits.”

    Not always the easiest of people to get on with, but getting to know me will reap benefits???? Funny???? Yeah, we can all join in on the “funny” racist remards, quite the hoot they are at kiddie parties… meet Bozo the clown, who’ll make a ‘coon’ out of a balloon and then tell you all why they don’t belong in “our” country stealing our women and taking our jobs.

    Narcissistic nutter, more like.

    Quite cry for “please understand me”, isn’t it?. Of course, He forgot to add in ‘racist bigot with delusions of colonialism’ into the list of “attributes”

  78. Brian Burton 22 Dec 2009, 9:15pm

    Why all the inane acramony over a professional Rugger player comming out as Gay? I think you all ought to have your naughty Bottoms seen to with my favorate swishy cane!

  79. Gareth-if you`re reading these comments,I`m ready to take your message,and I am very discreet!You sound like a wonder ful man,and I could make you very happy….and not just for Christmas!
    Call me when you feel like it….or should i join the queue???!!
    Happy Xmas,and a peaceful Gay life ahead…
    Wayne xxx

  80. Will: Are you STILL on a mudslinging exercise? So far, there are now three or four threads on here, and on all of them you have attempted to slag off myself, and often Vulpus Rex as well, but have said absolutely sweet F_CK ALL about the topic. Personally, your verbal diarrhoea bores the arse off of me, so Lord knows what others must think. Either stick to the topic, or go elsewhere.

    If you wish to attack me for my opinion, go ahead, but instead you are just down to nasty remarks to try and one-up me. It’s not clever, it’s just pathetic. If you want to REALLY win an argument, try actually staying on the debate instead of resorting to name calling.

  81. To RobN, if you want to REALLY win an argument, try actually staying on the debate instead of resorting to intellectually retarded racists remarks.

  82. Poor RobN! Bedevilled by the ever vigilant who don’t let him get away with his East End nationalist ravings.

    RobN, you can’t screech at Will at accuse HIM of being off-topic when in fact he, and I, are dealing with the upshot of your unfortunate remark re. Gareth Thomas at #35, where you intentionally DARED to say (in order to stir up):

    “It’s never easy for anyone to admit being Welsh.”

    Will, can you hear him bleating now, “Yeah, bu’ I pu’ a smiley after i’, didn’t I!”

    You don’t get away with making deliberate racist gibes like that, RobN, and certainly not by the addition of a little smiley!

    Will, he doesn’t say of himself: “Strong willed, opinionated, sometimes dark, creative, technical, generous, cynical, artistic, funny, passionate, argumentative and not always the easiest of people to get on with, but getting to know me will reap benefits”, does he? Hilarious! A lot of its true, though unflattering, but having watched what this guy’s written over the months I don’t know where on EARTH he gets the “generous, . . . funny, . . . [and] getting to know me will reap benefits” from!

    I think we’ve got to know RobN’s inner thought-world pretty well on these threads, and I certainly can’t say I’ve reaped any benefits yet!

    RobN, maybe you could instruct me as to what benefits I have reaped as a result of having observed your straight-from-the-heart thoughts on these threads over the course of many many months?

  83. Eddy: Yes, I put a smiley after it. Even the Welsh don’t take themselves THAT seriously.

    How can I be racist? The Welsh are the same race as the English, you f_ckwit. Or would it still be racist for me to have a pop at Essex people as I’m in London? Or maybe even slag off South Londoners, as I’m in North London? At this rate, I can be called racist for calling someone in the adjacent street nasty names.

    To sum up, Gareth Thomas did good, and I admire his courage, and I’m really pleased he for one, is finally dispelling his national stereotype involving sheep and wellies.

    [Waits for gasping sharp intake of breath from all around]

  84. “The Welsh are the same race as the English, you f_ckwit”

    Ignoring the low intellect vernaculars which Rob seems to think will somehow improve the validity of his nonsense, this statement is incorrect. Well, duh. The Welsh are of Celtic origins, sharing their roots with the Irish and the Scots. The English are of Saxon origins. The Welsh have a Gaelic based language, while English is a West Germanic language that developed in England during the Anglo-Saxon era.

    Your grasp of even your own country’s history is laughable. But this is no surprise, racism tends to be are domain of the ill-informed and the uneducated. NO doubt you like to think everyone is English, to make you feel one bit better as to why people couldn’t be arsed “getting to know you to reap benefits”

    Its with the same ignorance that he uses the term “potato people” when referring to the Irish. An ignorant remark, made by fools with no knowledge of the Irish struggle during those times, or Irish history.

    As you quite rightly pointed out Eddy, his own “description” of himself is narcissist, and is fairly aspirational (or deluded), rather than based in fact. Uttering that racist nonsense (we’ve seen other disgusting examples here on Muslims and other Europeans) clearly makes him feel more superior, at least on a superficial basis. Racist behaviours by certain LGBT people is not uncommon unfortunately, as s 2009 survey by the Human Rights Campaign Foundation in the United State found. Thankfully some strive to move past that stereotyping, while others wallow in it.

  85. Will: If you are going to quote me, please get it right. I called the early Irish a “nation of potato farmers” – not potato people.

    And that is, in essence all they were. If potatoes weren’t that important to them, why did the blight and resultant famine not nearly wipe out the entire country?

    I don’t say this as some kind of bitchy, racist snipe, as you seem to perceive, but one of a genuine matter of fact. That’s the way it was. There is no shame in agriculture.

    As for origins, you and your like are the first to claim we are all from common stock. (Third amoeba on the left) -but I state that a country builds roots and traditions, and that the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish still have a common root, whereas this country has doubled in population in the last 30 years. That is not natural population diffusion. It’s a f_cking invasion.

  86. Robn seven generations is your mother your auntie and is your brother your dad and do you have a red neck six fingers and play a banjo? you twonk!

  87. Derek Williams 28 Dec 2009, 5:54pm

    While it is unquestionably crucial for every gay or lesbian person to be ‘out’, it is of even greater importance for those of us who are, to recognise the role model of good citizenship that this visibility imposes.

    Our higher than average association with risk taking behaviours such as unsafe sexual practice and substance abuse, together with the perception of a fundamental dishonesty created by years of lying about our sexuality and all that connotes, seriously undermine our public credibility and make it all the harder for us to convince the ruling straight majority that we are worth bothering about.

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