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Gay porn star dies in taser arrest

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  1. Aussie Gay Activist Paul Mitchell 15 Dec 2009, 11:40am

    The police who were involved in the incident are homophobic bigots!!!

  2. This doesn’t seem that related to him being gay. He was arguing and someone felt it was getting out of hand and called the police. Then he had weed on him and panicked and tried to hide it. Nothing to do with being gay. Just typically overzealous US police.

    Also, he MUST’ve been a pornstar if he reckoned he could swallow a baggie full of weed… couldn’t get one down my throat.

  3. These tasers should be outlawed in Britain.

    1. I strongly disagree. A man in B’ham was holding a knife to the throat of an innocent woman bystander. There were only 2 options, try to shoot him without harming the woman (VERY high risk, and being covered by his blood / flesh would traumatise her even if the bullet missed her), or taser him. he was tasered, and neither he nor the victim were injured.
      Only the negative about tasers make the news, sadly.

  4. I don’t know how many times people have told me that marijuana isn’t dangerous, but it seems to have done for him. :-| What a waste of a beautiful young life.

  5. Why is this “gay” news again?

  6. Declan Joel Delamere 15 Dec 2009, 1:29pm

    This is outrageous but typical of the US attitude to We have “policing” in Europe, they have “law enforcement“.

    From the video, there were many and various faults on the part of the police:
    1. A taser should never need to be deployed at such short range, their purpose is to disable a subject from a distance.
    2. The safety of the subject should take priority over effecting an arrest (though it is unclear whether the police knew or saw him try to swallow the bag – but the closeup of the camera crew certainly caught it (unless that was post production zoom etc.)
    3. Four minutes of botched attempts at the heimlich manoeuvre is ridiculous. At what stage did the police grab the medical bag? Why did none of the police perform an emergency tracheotomy?

    As to the issue of his being gay and/or involved in the porn industry – on the face of it this is irrelevant. However the coroner’s court will ask whether he was known to or recognised by the police, whether he had any prior record of crime or suspicion of crime. I suspect they will not ask whether he was known for being gay – so we will never know whether this is a factor.
    More likely is that they would ask whether he had a history of drug use and potentially known for that instead.

    I concur with the earlier poster that tasers and all firearms should never be used by the police with the exception of specialist units called out to specific incidents such as siege, hostage, imminent terrorism – certainly ordinary police officers should be stripped of all armaments, especially in the US where they clearly have no respect for live in refusing to ban guns even after repeated massacres – shame on them!! They should be forced to do this by UN and the rest of the world.

  7. How can you say police officers shouldn’t be armed?! Do you realise the criminal scum they have to deal with every day? My husband is a police officer and if it was up to me he would be armed to the teeth out on the streets.

    What happened to this poor guy was a dreadful accident and its a distressing video to watch but he was fighting, he had illicit drugs on him and he was resisting arrest. It is easy to say the police should have responded differently but it looks a stressful situation. Are you sure you could have handled it better?

  8. Declan Joel Delamere 15 Dec 2009, 2:24pm

    In reply to Reb:

    Many countries manage their policing much better than the US without the need of guns, UK and Ireland for example.
    There is an argument to be made that arming the police service increases the level of gun crime in the general population… the US is a case unto itself where ordinary people are allowed to have guns!!
    Some would say the police are scum for behaving in such a ‘heavyhanded’ way; and I would say that even here in UK, they seem to be assuming a role where they believe they are above the ordinary person – in a position of control, rather than one of service which is what we employ them for.
    From the video I don’t concur that they knew he had illicit drugs on him at the time of the arrest (though as I said in my earlier post, they may have had prior knowledge of this, and they will be questioned about it I expect.)
    Hi resisting arrest is another questionable aspect: when exactly did his resistance (perhaps through fear of being found with a bag of grass and trying to grab an opportunity to swallow the evidence) turn into a choking panic that the officers interpreted as resisting their arrest? Were they slow to recognise the difference?

    Where are you from Reb? I ask because it would colour your attitude to policing in general. I’m Irish, a neutral and pacifist state where all firearms are banned except for specialist units as outlined earlier; I live in the UK with an unarmed police force again with exceptional specialist armed units on call for specific incidents that require it. This informs my attitudes, but I feel certainly it’s a far safer and correct situation than that which obtains in the US – which I find frankly offensive and ought be quashed by international action against that country. They should be forced to ban firearms.

  9. Declan, really I accept many of your points but people are always so quick to assume the police are at fault and the public are brutalised innocent citizens! I don’t accept that the police generally behave badly, most of them are good hard working people that are just trying to get through the day like everyone else.

    Im English.

    As I understand it most Americans are in favour of an armed population so it would hardly be democratic for us to ‘force’ them to do something they don’t want to do. Personally I think they are insane.

  10. In this case the guns argument is a moot point, isn’t it? He wasn’t shot by a gun, he was shot by a taser. But it wasn’t the taser that killed him, it was the plastic bag of marijuana he was trying to swallow to hide the evidence. He was trying to hide it from the police officer, I guess, not from the taser. And it wasn’t that he was knocked out by the taser, otherwise he wouldn’t have stood up quickly and tried to pull the bag out of his throat. In this particular example, guns, tasers, police officers and life itself all seem to be innocent of blame. (^_^)

    The moral to this story is surely that cannabis can kill – particularly if you swallow a plastic bag full of the stuff and suffocate on it.

  11. I’m sure this will be put down in the statistics as evidence that marijuana is a dangerous drug….

  12. Pumpkin Pie 15 Dec 2009, 3:13pm

    I’m with Declan on this one. Said pretty much everything I wanted to say and then some. Tasers are not “make perp go down now” buttons. They should only be used when necessary, not when convenient.

  13. Declan Joel Delamere 15 Dec 2009, 3:52pm

    Thanks for the support Pumpkin.

    Reb, I agree with you: most police (here anyway) are honest, decent, hardworking ordinary men and women who serve the public as best they can. But I had an ex bf who was a trainee met officer (he used smuggle me into the station house behind Marble Arch ;-) but the attitude he and seemingly is being propagated more and more is that it’s their job to control and rule over people, not to be servants of the people – this is very sad.
    In US I think it is a different matter, a very, very sad way of policing with a ‘them and us’, ‘shoot first ask questions later’ kind of attitude which does nothing for policing.
    With regard to US democratically wanting to ‘bear arms’ – just like they decided on regime change in Iraq, the UN does have to power to intervene with a resolution if international pressure was there to achieve it. I doubt it would happen, but if it saved another mindless massacre in that country it would be worth it.

    Dec

  14. Denis Nzioka 15 Dec 2009, 3:55pm

    So sad. This is horrific. Why use such force?

  15. This tread seems to be more of an exercise in knee-jerk anti-Americanism than an objective discussion over the facts of this event. American gun laws, gun ownership, and massacres have absolutely nothing to do with this story. Infact, the use of a taser may not even be relevant to this man’s death but that is besides the point. Declan’s comments were so ridiculous that I seriously have to question his/her intelligence. Lets look at your three points;

    1.) Police issued taser guns generally have a range of about 35 feet. It would seem, that by its very design, it is not meant to be used from a distance. It is generally used when officers are in fear of their own safety/safety of others or the probability of causing harm is greater manually restraining a suspect than using a taser.

    2.) There is no indication that the police officers knew he had ingested a bag of any sort. Once they realized he was choking they utilized their training in an attempt to save him.

    3.) An emergency tracheotomy? I think you need to stop watching movies. Do you think they are E.R. physicians during the day, police by night?

    Please spare us the European smugness Declan. This is an unfortunate incident but your lectures on gun laws are completely unrelated.

  16. I think I’d have tasered the reality tv crew!! The dramas in other people’s lives should not be filmed for public entertainment!!

  17. @Declan – I agree with you. Ban tasers completely I agree with Amnesty International.

  18. Alex Richardson 15 Dec 2009, 7:09pm

    The reporter states that the bag was swallowed prior to the television crew arriving. Looking at the video, it would appear that he was ‘resisting arrest’ because he was already choking to death. Hindsight is a great thing.

  19. ChristoRay 15 Dec 2009, 8:02pm

    Why is this newsworthy? Gay people die everyday in all sorts of accidents, murders and bizarre and unpleasant scenarios such as this one. It’s undoubtedly sad for this guy’s family, but it seems to have been deemed worthy of inclusion here simply because he used to have sex with strangers in front of a camera for a living. Hmm. Had he been a builder, a charity worker or a history student, say, I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t have heard about it.

  20. Of course it is sad this young man died but he brought it wholly upon himself and apologists for criminality should be ashamed to try and make misguided political capital out if this incident. It has nothing to do with homophobia – that is crying wolf which discredits those who experience real homophobia. The police have a tough job to do – if Grande hadn’t been a drug abuser/dealer and hadn’t tried to resist arrest he would be alive today. We can have sympathy for his family but this should be a lesson to all druggies. End of Story.

  21. Perfect news!

  22. Free the weed man

  23. “The police who were involved in the incident are homophobic bigots!!!”
    The law is for everyone Aussie Activist, you should know that

    This guy choked trying to swallow his drugs and resist arrest
    Hardly a role model for others
    To suggest the police were homophobic biggots is such a stupid comment from you, if we want equality then it means facing up to crimes we have committed that are fair to us and straight people
    Gay people are not legally entitled to take/deal drugs

  24. some of you are way off in left field,the taser or force did not kill him,the bag did.he was a fool a swallowed the bag of weed.
    An how do you get homophobic biggots,they did not know he was a porn star,give your head a shake.
    Bottom line is a young man is dead because he swallowed a bag.

  25. Sister Mary Clarence 16 Dec 2009, 5:23am

    People might actually want to have a look at the video before they start ripping into each other. The guy was seated on the ground gasping for breath when the taser was fired at him – an officer would likely face prosecution in the UK for using it in such circumstances here. It falls well outside the scope of use here.

    Arguably is appears from the footage, that the ‘resisting’ involved him raising himself off the floor to enable himself to breath after officers forced him to the ground (where he sat motionless saved the gasping for breath (and was then tasered at a distance of under two feet away).

    Having raised himself off the floor, where he was pinned chest down with officers pushing down on him (evidently struggling for breath), once seated he seemed calmer and concentrating on drawing breath.

    When tasered he stood up to move away from then officer who had just fired the device at him and pulled it off. He can quite clearly be seen to be asking the officers to help him explaining he couldn’t breath.

    Again here, the taser should not have been used on a person in breathing distress, this in itself presents a high risk of injury or death, as is also the case if the recipient is high on drugs.

    I do agree however that taser is a better option than the gun, but a better option still is to do some good old fashioned policing and defuse a situation. There was no evidence of good policing at all. The officers for whatever reason misread what was happening and ignored for a considerable amount of time (which subsequently proved to be fatal) a choking man’s pleas for help.

    Its all very well to say its his own fault for breaking the law, but doing thirty two miles an hour in a thirty mile an hour zone is illegal, but it doesn’t warrant a bullet in the head.

    Police responses should be proportionate. Officers should be using good communication and interpersonal skills, tact and diplomacy to calm situations.

    I think firing 50000 volts at close range into a man who in reality was already in his death throes fall somewhat short of that

    It was a complete waste of a man’s life

  26. Patrick James 16 Dec 2009, 6:33am

    The Sheriff, Frank McKeithen, says that Andrew Grande died because he had swallowed the bags of marijuana.

    But Andrew Grande in the video is very clearly wanting help for something stuck in his throat. I wonder if he had received that help instead of being attacked by the taser would he still be alive today?

    I know that it is always easy to be wise after the event watching a video on the computer, but It is hugely sad that through foolishness a man has died in this way.

    I also think that if marijuana were simply legal this drama would not have happened.

  27. Jean-Paul Bentham 16 Dec 2009, 7:08am

    I agree with tsuchan (4).

    My sympathy to Andrew Grande’s family and friends.

    And if a potentially dangerous alcoholic drink is legal, I often wonder why marijuana, which so often has a calming effect, is illegal.

    Finally, I feel certain there’s more to this story than meets the eye.

  28. Aussie Gay Activist Paul Mitchell: “The police who were involved in the incident are homophobic bigots!!!”

    And you are an overeactionary f_ckwit that obviously didn’t read the story properly. People like you that knee-jerk react to any incident immediately screaming “Homophobe!” give the rest of us a bad name. You are not an activist, you are an idiot with a persecution complex.

  29. I am so sick of the police use of force in the country! It’s completely uncalled for and excessive! It’s as if we live in a Nazi police state, anymore.

  30. Marty McCormack 17 Dec 2009, 9:06pm

    This is a tragic event. The police in this case murdered a young man. Look at it 4 police and a camera crew against a skinny young man. It appears to already be edited and not much was done to save his life. I only pray that these officers who were over zealous on camera face murder charges.

  31. This is a sad story, & the video is an example of the lack of sensitivity by the police to someone in a distressful situation. They only perceive there one aim, & never the whole picture. I had a bad experience with the LAPD. I was parked in my car on Hollywood Blvd, in front of a friends house, & we were rehearsing our lines for a play we were in, for a few mins. All of a sudden the police in 4 squad cars, appeared out of nowhere, & they had guns pointed at us & ordered us to come out of the car with our hands up. Once out of the car, I was thrown hard on the asphalt wet street (it was raining) 2 officers pinned me down similiar to the poor yng man in the film. I had 2 weeks prior to this dislocated my right shoulder, & was under the Dr’s care. The officers put handcuffs on me, & forced my hands behind my back. I yelled out in pain, & said I had just dislocated my shoulder, & my shoulder was hurting bad with this agressive angry treatment I was getting. I also asked what are you doing this for. I’ve done nothing wrong. The officer said, shut the f_ck up or I’ll break your arm. This is the truth so help me GOD. So, I laid on my stomach in the street for 10 mins in pain, & the rain was coming down heavy by then. My girlfriend was a few feet from me handcuffed also, & her clothes were ruined, because she was laying near the curb in the mud. After about 20 mins they came over & untied me, and all they could say was, your not the right suspect. You fit the description, & the car was similiar, but the woman who reported the burglary walked over to view me, & realized I wasn’t the afro-american man, that came in her apt. I have curly hair that’s about it.. I’m caucasian. Welll, I never got an apology from any of the officers, for this abusive treatment, nor did my girlfriend. We had a crowd of many peole all around us watching the whole ordeal. It was very humiliating, & painful. I filed a complaint against the LAPD, because of complications with my shoulder healing afterwards, & the stressful emotional & physical abusive behaviour of these officers. I later got a letter with an apology for what happened. And there was no mention of paying for the cleaning of my girlfriends clothes, or the humility of all her neighbors watching her in this situation. The main point is that I was treated very badly, & I know if I resisted that officer would have broken my arm. This is barbarick treatment, & I have no respect for the police since this happened to me. And I feel if they were more aware to what was going on with this kid they might have saved his life, instead of shooting him, & stressing him more, which just tightened his throat, & led to his death. I feel sorry for his family, & I’m sure they could care less that the boy died, just like they were with me, no apology from any of the 8 officers on this scene with me & my girlfriend.

  32. I know all three of the deputies. They didnt even know the guy nor if he was gay. Come on are you serious. He resisted and they used the right force. Tasers are NOT to be only used at a distance. They can be used at point blank range up to 30 ft. Furthermore the taser was not the issue. He choked on a bag he swallowed. They tried to save his life. If HE would have not resisted he would be alive. So if they didn’t tase him would pepper spray been a better alternative. As for you non US citizens if you don’t like our police carrying guns don’t come here. Our gun laws are very open and OUR police HAVE to carry guns to survive. WOW unbelievable. Until you walk in a US police officers shoes shut up. BOTTOM LINE IF HE WOULDN’T HAVE RESISTED AND SWALLOWED THE BAG HE WOULD BE ALIVE. Oh I have been to the UK and have witnessed the POLICE there beat a few people’s asses because they have no other tools but their hands and clubs to deal with resistive people.

  33. The police who were involved are members of the Army of God, a Christian group who is secretly working to destroy gays for God in America. The video clearly shows many police who could have stopped the gay man with out shooting the gay man with a taser. Proof that police have an agenda to kill gays and hide the fact that they are a secret army for God in America. The CIA and FBI who are also members of the Army of God are also involved.

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