What is it with these pointles sad little men that despite being high up in an organised religions hierarchy, they simply fail to understand their own religion.
They are filled with man made organisational nonsense and run their “Church” as if it were a business.
There is never an ounce of humanity comes out of these people.
Only their own self interest and preservation of their own way of life, including their misogynism and bigotry.
Thank F I’m an athiest.
So – reading down the front page of PinkNews here – Dr. Williams will openly criticize the orderly election of a lady in America and call for a reversal, but has nothing to say publicly about Uganda because:
“It has been made clear to us, as indeed to others, that attempts to publicly influence either the local church or political opinion in Uganda would be divisive and counter-productive.”
The cohesion of the Anglican Church is more compromised by Dr Williams’ deafness to Mary Glasspool’s statement that “Any group of people who have been oppressed because of any one, isolated, aspect of their person yearns for justice and equal rights.” Surely it’s time the CoE was disestablished?
I wonder if any other Harry Potter fans are reminded of this paraphrased extract:
“The Church is homophobic. If you accept that fact straightaway. Archbishop, and take the necessary measures, we may still be able to save the situation. The first and most essential step is to remove the Church from the control of the bigots”
“Preposterous!” shouted Rowan Williams again. “Remove the bigots? I’d be kicked out of office for suggesting it! Half of us only feel safe in our beds at night because we know the homophobes are standing guard over bigotry!”
“The rest of us sleep less soundly in our beds, Rowan, knowing that you have stolen reason from the debate by trying to stifle progress towards equality” said the Diocese of Los Angeles. “They will not remain loyal to you, Rowan! Bigotry can offer them much more scope for splitting the Church than you can forestall! With the bigots united, with decention prohibited, you will be hard pressed to stop them regaining the sort of power they had before female ordination!”
Dr Williams was opening and closing his mouth as though no words could express his outrage.
“The second step you must take—and at once,” the Diocese pressed on, “is to send envoys to the gay community.”
“Envoys to the gays?” Williams shrieked, finding his tongue again. “What madness is this?”
“Extend them the hand of friendship, now, before it is too late, or Richard Dawkins will persuade them, as he did before, that atheism alone among philosophies, will give them their rights and their freedom!”
“You—you cannot be serious!” Williams gasped, shaking his head and retreating further from the Diocese. “If there were a genuine debate about gay ordination in the Church — people hate them… end of my career.”
“You are blinded,” said the Diocese, their voices rising now, the aura of power around them palpable, their eyes blazing once more, “by the love of the office you hold, Rowan Williams! You place too much importance, and you always have done, on the so called status quo! You fail to recognize that it matters not what someone is born, but the person they grow to be! We tell you now, take the steps we have suggested, and you will be remembered, in office or out, as one of the bravest and greatest Archbishops of Canterbury we have ever known. Fail to act—and history will remember you as the man who stepped aside and allowed the bigots a yet another chance to destroy the Church we have tried to rebuild!”
Rowan Williams – what a pathetic little excuse for a human being – more worried about his church than his congregation. Typical of religion.
I wonder why this person still has not condemned Uganda’s genocidal new homophobic law – oh yeah he doesn’t want to divide his church on the issue.
Here’s hoping for the break-up of the Anglican church!
The Episcopal Church in the US ought to tell the Woolly Welshman to get lost. It’s not Mary Glasspool’s nomination that raises “very serious questions”, it’s the reaction of Williams and others like him. The Anglican Communion is dead, put it out of its misery. It’s the Episcopal Church that pays most of the cost of the Anglican Communion, anyway, so tell them to get lost, including all the tribal bigots in Africa, and let them fend for themselves.
Rowan Williams was appointed amid general expectations that he would support a progressive approach. These have been ground into the dust because holding this ramshackle organisation together is more important to him than respecting diversity – the only recipe for a ‘national’ church, though never really officially acknowledged. Evangelicals and fundamentalists are totalitarians who claim absolute truth who thus will not live in communion with anyone who does not submit to their version of it. It is obvious that anyone who puts unity before any other value is completely at their mercy and that they have an effective veto on anything they dislike.
The theological chasms dividing other branches of Anglicanism are only so obvious because the latter are not state churches obliged to perform a masquerade of unity. In Britain the farce is increasingly disintegrating because the doctrinaire bigots who have taken over during the last 40 years are declaring unique ownership. They will destroy the Anglican church pretty soon, and make disestablishment all but inevitable – a ‘national’ church in a modern democracy – an absurd idea at best – must at least make a pretence at pluralism.
This is probably the biggest favour the Anglican Bible-bashers can do us.
It’s my understanding that Rowan Williams actually *is* more of a progressive, socially. But he was put in an office that now has a virtually impossible goal – getting people who hate each other to accept each other. If I had to constantly deal with people like Akinola and those other Anglican leaders who are so inhumanly homophobic, I would just resign – there is too much pressure and too much hate in such a world. He will eventually have to accept that he can’t hold the ideological differences together – he will have to allow the American Episcopal Church to be totally gay-friendly, and maybe actually return to his own more gay-friendly roots, and accept a loss of clout with the other churches.
Lesbian bishop – bad
Ugandan genocide – a-ok
Behold Christian love!
“Very serious questions??! No, the only question it raises in my mind is “WTF is your problem?” Either accept every single word the Bible says, making no allowance for the ideas of its time and the human failings of the writers, and go round campaigning to re-introduce slavery, make women marry their rapists, etc etc or stop justifying your own bigotry by picking and choosing bits from the Bible you want to abide by while ignoring others. Do these people think about nothing else but sex?
“Do these people think about nothing else but sex?”
I would presume so.
They are all so hung up about it that they ain’t gettin any, and clearly begrudge anyone who is…..
Bloody useless man!
Firstly, the potential split in the church is being caused by a group of people who refuse to accept a broad church of differing views, but as fundamentalist, quite naturally want everyone to abide by their rules, and are convinced that only their views are right. They use blackmail by threatening to walk off the field and take their ball with them.
The Episcopalians on the other hand are not trying force other people to agree with them, but simply serve their own congregation as their congregation wishes. It is no skin off anyone else’s nose.
Time for Williams to stand up against intolerance.
Oh, and get those 27 bishops out of our legislature, they are a total anachronism, and an affront to democracy.
Williams can’t tell or order ECUSA to do anything. It’s a democratic institution that elects its bishops and makes decisions through convention. Undoubtedly, that is another source of annoyance to the hierarchies in England and elsewhere who are unaccountable, meaning lacking popular legitimacy but also meaning they are free to spout their bigotry, as people like Nazir-Ali do, without fear of having to respond in a public forum. Who is Williams to even “suggest that diocesan bishops should reject” Mary Glasspool?
Iris, yes it is all about sex, they ignore the much, much greater sins, the money sins of thieving bankers, lying politicians on the make, corrupt African dictators, they ignore the millions dead through the prohibition of the use of condoms, they ignore abuse of children by priests, instead “sex” is the greater sin. Fools, deluded, lying, self-serving fools.
Tow words. F**k him and his gutless lack of courage.
Protest Uganda Anti-Homosexuality Bill
Thursday 10th December 2009
Ugandan High Commission
58-59 Trafalger Square, Charing Cross
London, WC2N 5DX
To coincide with International Human Rights Day, this Thursday 10 December, Sexual Minorities Uganda (SMUG) has called for worldwide protests against the draconian Anti-Homsexuality Bill currently being debated by the Ugandan parliament.
Under this proposed new law, gay Ugandans will face execution for certain homosexual acts.
See details of the legislation here:
If you can’t attend Thursday’s protest, please lobby your MP and MEP. Ask them to write to the Ugandan High Commissioner, Joan Rwabyomere, urging that the legislation is dropped. You can email your MP and MEP here: http://www.writetothem.com
You can also email the Ugandan High Commissioner, Joan Rwabyomere, yourself:
“The new Anti-Homosexuality Bill, if passed, proposes the death penalty for ‘aggravated’ and ‘serial’ homosexual acts and extends the existing penalty of life imprisonment for anal sex to all other same-sex behaviour, including the mere touching of another person with the intent to have gay relations. Life imprisonment is also the penalty for contracting a same-sex mariage,” said Peter Tatchell of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) human rights group OutRage!.
Out Rage! is backing the London protest, which is being coordinated by the Gay Activists Alliance International, with the support of Gay Uganda and Ugandan LGBT exiles. Mr Tatchell will speak at the rally, together with Davis Mac-Iyalla (Nigeria and co-founder of GAAI) and Skye Chirape (Zimbabwe)
“Membership of LGBT organisations and funding for them, advocacy of LGBT human rights and the provision of condoms or safer sex advice to LGBT people will result in a minimum sentence of five years and a maximum of seven years for “promoting” homosexuality. A person in authority who fails to report violators to the police within 24 hours will incur three years behind bars,” added Mr Tatchell.
“Astonishingly, the new legislation has an extra-territorial jusridiction. It will also apply to Ugandans who commit these ‘crimes’ while living abroad, in countries where such behaviour is not a criminal offence. Violators overseas will be subjected to extradition, trial and punishment in Uganda,” he said.
According to Dennis Hambridge, GAAI global coordinator:
“The bill is likely to be detrimental to the fight against HIV/AIDS by denying gay and bisexual men access to condoms and safer sex advice and driving countless numbers of them further underground. It will create even more stigma, discrimination and oppression
“Activists in Uganda have reported to GAAI that there are eight gay people currently awaiting trial or sentencing in Uganda.
“With immense pressure being put on the Ugandan Government to drop the bill, by human rights groups, governments and religious groups worldwide, we call on our people in the UK to support this protest,” he said.
GAAI are also hoping that gay Ugandan John Bosco Nyombi will be able to attend Thursday’s protest. Earlier thsi year, the British courts ordered the return of John Bosco Nyombi to the UK after he was illegally and forcibly returned to Uganda while seeking asylum in the UK.
The Ugandan Anti-Homosexuality Bill violates the equality and non-discrimination provisions of the African Charter on Human and People’s Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), to which Uganda is a signatory. These breaches of international humanitarian commitments undermine the right to privacy and individual liberty and thereby set a dangerous legal precedent which threatens the human rights of all Ugandans. They are part of a wider drift towards an authoritarian state. President Museveni is fast turning into another Robert Mugabe.
The Anti-Homosexuality Bill has been condemned by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, International Commission of Jurists and the World AIDS Campaign.
It violates the Commonwealth principles of human rights and human dignity. You can email the Commonwealth Secretary-General, Kamalesh Sharma, here:
“Iris, yes it is all about sex, they ignore the much, much greater sins, the money sins of thieving bankers, lying politicians on the make, corrupt African dictators, they ignore the millions dead through the prohibition of the use of condoms, they ignore abuse of children by priests, instead “sex” is the greater sin. Fools, deluded, lying, self-serving fools”
Seems they should sort their own problems and issues out first then. Haven’t they heard the quote:- “You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye….”
so he can’t publicly condemn murder of gays, lesbians and bisexuals yet he can interfere when it’s a lesbian bishop and shows his agenda is only about making the church look good
The archbishop of Canterbury can f**k off.
I wonder if Rowan still have any authority left? He has never been a proper leader in my eye, let alone a spiritual one. He never takes a stand or say what (if any) ever he could in a straight-forward manner. The always forward and republican Anglican church is dying under his (supposed) leadership because he can never be brave enough.
I think he should be charged for influencing homophobia which is against equality laws. His half-hearted statement is encouraging hate. It’s time Mr. Williams declare whose side he is on and stop being a crippled leader. Even Benedict is bold enough to declare his ignoramus fight against condoms; but it gives him dignity at least, so we know what he stands for. But for Rowan, he is too afraid of conservatives in the Church as well as the gay community. Hipocrit!
I’m all for disestablishing the C of E altogether, diminishing its power, nothing more than a bunch of hypocritical parasites and spongers off the state. They should go out and find real jobs and contribute their fair share to society.
Cantaur (as is his latin nomen) needs to face the fact that in the ECUSA the “people” and clergy of the diocese elect their bishops. They don’t have a Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, or David Cameron doing the job, or a college of cardinals. The other ECUSA bishops get to approve, or not, but it is first and foremost the voice of the grassroots people of God. So, maybe Rowan can follow his mentor Tony over to Rome, or maybe he can realize that the Holy Spirit is at work among the people of the ECUSA and other progressive branches of the Communion.
I agree it’s time to dis-establish the C of E and get those Bishops out of Parliament. Anyone fancy drafting a petition to that effect to 10 Downing St?
Mark, when does it start? How about adding the abolition of the antiquated, undemocratic House of Lords where these bastards sit in judgement, they weren’t even elected either? Hardly what you could call democracy at work and definitely not representative of the people.
They would be still burning people as witches if they had the power. Nutters, the lot of them.
A Limerick for Alleged Former Liberal Archbishop Williams
There once was a Liberal named Rowan,
As Bishop grim Traditions he kept towin’
He coddled Sharia,
Next he’ll be praying “Ave Maria”
His path: Henrican, Ugandan, then Roman.
The Gay Community in UK should organise A mass protest At Lambeth Palace and keep it up untill that Idiot Williams has resigned!
Congratulations Rev Mary Glasspool.
She added: “I am very excited about the future of the whole Episcopal Church, and I see the Diocese of Los Angeles leading the way into that future.”
Yes, congratulations Rev Bishop Mary Glasspool!
The Episcopal Church shows that love is stronger than hate.
The Archibishop of Canterbury, Rev Dr Rowan Williams, would do well to look to the example of Jesus Christ for inspiration and courage. Jesus was a brave man who stood up to the religious leaders of the day and criticised them for being overly-pious and in cahoots with corrupt politicians and profiteering businessmen. Remember how He overturned the money-changers’ (i.e. bankers’) tables in the Temple courtyard? Remember how He criticised the pious, hypocritical Pharisees for being “whited sepulcres”? Remember how He was criticised and condemned for making friends with people who were marginalised and outcast by the religious leaders and the self-satisfied middle classes of the day? He said, “Remove the log from your own eye before you criticise the speck in the other man’s eye”. He also said, “let him without sin cast the first stone”. Do you remember the Ten Commandments, Dr Williams? I am pretty sure that one of them is “Thou shalt not kill”. Where is your courage? Stand up for love not hate. Christ was crucified for His beliefs and yet you are worried about being called a “colonialist” by corrupt, murdering politicians! It is not colonialist to stand up for equality and it is never colonialist to condemn killing people or taking away their God-given free-will to love who they choose!
The people causing division are those who preach hate, discrimination and murder in the name of God.
Rowan Williams is just contemptible. He coddles the homophobes like Akinola but has the unmitigated GALL to criticise the ECUSA for a lesbian bishop. What is wrong with this picture?!
I think the Episcopal Church needs to tell Williams and all his homophobic buddies to take a hike and then leave the Communion. They’ll be much better off without any ties to the nutters. As nearly as I can tell, Bishop-elect Glasspool harms no one, talks badly or uncharitably about anyone,and certainly doesn’t associate with the likes of Akinola, Lively, Warren, or any of the others who will doubtless applaud if the Anti-homosexuality law passes and Uganda begins the judicial murder of LGBTQ Ugandans. I’d much rather be in Bishop-elect Glasspool’s company any day!
Dr Rowan Williams is such a disappointment and a spineless wonder!
Sorry I meant to say “does not talk badly or uncharitably about anyone…”
The Archbishop of Canterbury presides over the greatest example of the Emperor’s New Clothes in recent memory except for the case of the ex-govenor of Alaska Sarah Palin. If she can see Russia from her front porch I guess the Archbishop can see lesbians in Los Angeles!
The Independent has come out with the very point made here, contrasting Williams’ stances on Mary Glasspool and on Uganda.
Some good comments, too, by their readers.
“The bishops of the Communion have collectively acknowledged that a period of gracious restraint in respect of actions which are contrary to the mind of the Communion is necessary if our bonds of mutual affection are to hold.”
Playing with an online language translator is hilarious, but there’s a time and a place for that, Mr. Williams. Why not just get back to doing your job? Oh, right. I just remembered what your job is. On second thoughts, keep playing with Babelfish or whichever program you use – you’ll do the world less harm that way.
Can he say that with any degree of certainty or is this just his blind prejudice, hatred and stupidity coming through?
I don’t believe Williams is prejudiced, hateful or stupid, merely a coward trying to placate the those who are to keep his church together. The two contrasting cases quoted here illustrate that he is tough on the forgiving and soft on the bullies and haters.
Appeasement is a word that seems appropriate…
Mihangel apYrs – appeasement is right as he’s more concerned with holding the church together and keeping the homophobes happy then he is concerned with what’s right
“…a period of gracious restraint…our bonds of mutual affection …”
Using such words to describe organised prejudice and discrimination in their workplace against good people being true to their harmless and inborn nature would seem to show a complete lack of contact with either reality or honesty.
How powerful are we – this pathetic man is running scared.