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Thailand to limit gender reassignment surgery

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  1. Pumpkin Pie 27 Nov 2009, 6:04pm

    They must also undergo a mental evaluation before the procedure and attend appointments with a psychiatrist afterwards.

    Whoa, nelly. This should definitely have already been in place. Apart from this, so long as they’re allowed to start hormone blockers before puberty, they’ve got it better than we have.

  2. My concern would be with the gender industry (the psychs) getting a foothold and with the mention of a “mental evaluation”. There may, of course, be exceptions but I believe almost all trans people know far more about themselves than any psych could ever tell them. We are certainly not talking about a “mental” condition; I see lots of other people walking around the streets every day who ought to be sectioned, they’re the ones who can use help, not trans people! The “failure rate”, those who regret their decision to proceed to SRS, is almost zero. I don’t think that many people would go through everything that’s involved in SRS unless they were sure about themselves. There’s now a fair degree of scepticism about the Benjamin guidelines; sure, they keep psychs in business at up to £200 an hour but whether they actually help people going for SRS, I’d doubt very much. The “real life experience” is perhaps irrelevant anyway, most of us had been living as we knew was right for ourselves for far longer than one year before having SRS.

    Btw, I doubt very much you could get SRS for $2,000! I’d guess that now the cost would be around $10,000.

  3. Pumpkin Pie 27 Nov 2009, 11:35pm

    Very valid points about the psychologists running the show. I am aware of the often draconian restrictions they put in place which harm trans people here in many Western countries, and I should have pointed that out.

    The only reason I was saying this is a good step is to stop people who suffer from things like body dysmorphic disorder from making a big mistake – such people find that transitioning wasn’t a magic cure after all, and they still hate themselves. Similarly, there are problems in some countries of young males transitioning solely to get into the sex trade because they have so few options to earn a living. (NB: In a similar way, feudal China had to pass a law against self-castration, due to how coveted the positions of royal eunuchs were!)

    Yeah, the psychological community needs to lay off a bit over here, but some psychological guidance can be a good thing. I hope Thailand keeps things casual.

  4. Thailand is full of libertines. Such liberatines would eventually distroy that country, and people will be very sorry for their sins.

  5. I think this may be the kind of thing you mean:

    Yes, castration of people to get them into the sex trade isn’t right, unless those people are willing and complicit in it, perhaps a necessary qualification. I can see it isn’t an easy matter to deal with. Having the show run by the psychs is not the answer, though, they would have an obvious vested interest in delaying transition and prolonging unhappiness.

    This is from “The Nation”.

    I am not doubting the sincerity of the competent Thai authorities and it may be that the seemingly natural Thai sense of tolerance means that in practice it all works out fine.

    Rahman, your very name discloses that you are imprisoned in cultural repression, unworthy of response.


  6. Jane.

    “Rahman, your very name discloses that you are imprisoned in cultural repression, unworthy of response”

    Your name, Jane, shows that you are a white imperialist racist and your views should be treated with utter contempt.

    Jane = RACIST

  7. Oh dear, how eloquent!
    Proves my point.

  8. theotherone 28 Nov 2009, 2:06pm

    Either psych assessments be put in place for all Cosmetic Surgery or they must be removed as a requirement for GRS.

    If I want my nose remodeled I can pay to have it done, if I wish to have my Genitals remodeled I have to submit to the patriarchal pity of a Psych and allow myself to be labeled as Mentally Ill.

    Letting the Psychs in is always a bad thing.

  9. A “white, imperialist racist”?
    Did I actually even mention colour, nationality or race?

    I assume, however, that you identify with Rahman’s views
    and with his mindset? If that is so, then why not express
    those views in a coherent way rather than resorting to
    labelling and name-calling?

    Enjoy the Sabbath, peace to all.
    Shalom, salaam.


  10. theotherone 28 Nov 2009, 2:09pm

    oh and can the Homophobic Islamofascists get lost, we’ve got more important things to do than laugh at you.

  11. Rahman (message no. 4), I just noticed your, perhaps Freudian slip of the keyboard, “liberatines”, what a charming, wonderful word, liberation and libertines in one word! I shall use the word with pleasure and think of you always.


  12. We have long been repressed and kept in the mental heath system and the DSM by the likes of Kenneth Zucker and Ray Blanchard of the Canadian based Clarke Institute.

    Zucker likes to torture trans kids with his reparatve therapy program. While Ray Blanchard spent 20 years measuring men’s penises so he could prove men with a small penis turn out gay. He has now made up “Autogynephilia” it is a sex-fuelled mental illness made up by Blanchard, who defines it as “a man’s paraphilic tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman.” He is now trying to label trans people with this diagnosis in the DSM V.

    Unfortunately these two quacks will keep trans people in the DSM and the mental health sector for at lest the next ten years.

    Lets hope Thailand only impose HB guidelines and not the dodgy 1950’s science of Zucker and Blanchard.

  13. theotherone 29 Nov 2009, 2:11am

    abi: I always think that we are people who have looked at ourselves striped of any masks and as such are more sane and rational than the Psychs themselves.

  14. Abi, this is in today’s NY Times, it isn’t about trans people but I sense a kind of scepicism towards DSM-V, see the last para on page 2, for example. It would be interesting to look back to earlier versions and have a good laugh at the nonsense the psychs were spouting 30 years ago.


  15. sorry, scepticism……..
    duh to me!

  16. theotherone 29 Nov 2009, 10:09pm

    what a load of bloody rubbish! Patholigising a normal part of life and…well why SHOULD Women be constantly up for sex?

    This nonsense shows just how unscientific Psychology realy is.

    Psychologists need thrown out of discussions of Gender and Sexuality. Go back and study the sex drive of lab rats.

  17. Theotherone, exactly what I thought. As I was reading the article, I couldn’t believe some of the comments from the psychs. Well said!

  18. theotherone 30 Nov 2009, 12:15am

    it’s the same as patholigising childbirth, ovulation, patholigising the end of a Woman’s fertile period and so and so on.

    Likewise the patholisation of sexual desire as discussed in the article: you’re mentally ill if you’re into 9″ heels, you’re mentally ill if you like to be bound during sex, you’re mentally ill if you don’t like sex, you’re mentally ill if you’re attracted to the same sex – oh wait they removed that didn’t they?

    I’m afraid that when Psychology gets involved in issues of sex and gender it begins to resemble a grubby little peeping tom and unfortunately we (‘Transpeople’) are bound to them: I’ve known people who have been asked not just who they slept with (male or female or both) but how they slept with them, how often, what they fantasised about, how manny people they had slept with…Psychs are grubby little Buggers (but they wouldn’t engage in Buggery as that would be unhealthy and dysfunctional.)

    Next time you see a Psych Jane just remember you’re looking at a seedy little voyeur, it always makes me laugh to think that way anyway.

  19. Definitely making it harder is not the answer to this, getting people to think about their decesion is. It is not something you can go back on in a few years time.

    In terms of Psychology, I personally believe it is not a mental illness, it is a medical issue. Sure a person should sit down and think about it. But yes the Psychologist does not need to be told your sexual history before. I was asked why I haven’t been with a boy (afterall I couldn’t be girl when I haven’t been with a boy), why wasn’t I dressing more like a “girl”. Which begs the question what exactly do girls wear: we don’t all dress the same, that is very apparent. I never changed how I dressed and I have never had a problem living my life as a woman. I don’t think Psychologists are the problem, I think it is how society and the “trans community” defines trans and woman.

    I got more flack from “trans” people for not being girl enough, trans enough or any number of identities that apparently I was not. But then again I had the same thing when I was in a boy body and now in a girl body. “Trans” criteria are problematic since there is no universal understanding of what a woman or man is supposed to be. So how do you go about defining who should qualify for surgery?

  20. theotherone 30 Nov 2009, 9:32am

    Hi Chloe.

    you’re right about ‘Trans’ Identities not being a Mental Illness but I’d be loath to call them ‘illness’ either. Perhaps ‘Identities’ is a better term? Identities in the same way that Bisexual, Lesbian or Gay are identities. Once we allow ourselves to be labeled as ill or dysfunctional then we allow The Professionals to crawl all over us with their grubby little sexologist/ psychiatric/ caringprofessional perversions. No one has the right to define how another person identifies; not The Professionals and not other Trans people.

    Keep holding your head high my dear.

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