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Gay unions threaten ‘fabric of society’, bishops say

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  1. When is somebody go to stand up and tell these goddam bigots to stay out of our lives? I think it’s time we face it: we need to take on these Catholic bishops. They are the enemy, a roadblock to gay people living productive lives.

  2. I notice there are all sorts of demonstrations all over the country against some supposed “sharia law” in the UK. However, it seems highly unlikely that such laws would be brought in here given the influence of those Christians here.

    So, that leads to the question, where is the outrage over the Christians attempting to impose their beliefs on everyone else?

  3. Simon Murphy 19 Nov 2009, 12:15pm

    Actually it is the catholic clergy and their systemic sexual abuse of children over generations, and the support and protection of these vicious perverts by the catholic hierarchy which has caused far more damage to the fabric of society,

    Who takes these child molesters and their protectors seriously?

  4. Simon Murphy 19 Nov 2009, 12:26pm

    Write them an email:
    The addresses are:
    commdept@usccb.org,
    Media-Relations@usccb.org

    “Subject: Gay unions threaten ‘fabric of society’ according to USCCB?

    Dear USCCB

    It was with great confusion that I read today about the pastoral letter by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops which warns about the dangers of same-sex marriage and partnerships, saying they will affect everyone.

    Considering the systemic sexual abuse of children over generations by the catholic clergy , and the support and protection of these vicious perverts by the catholic hierarchy i.e. the bishops; I am wondering what moral authority the catholic church has to condemn the civil rights of the law-abiding gay community? Your church far more seriously damages the fabric of society than the gay community does.
    I consider the catholic church to be a safe haven for child molesters and the catholic hierarchy is the protector of child molesters.

    Keep your paedophile noses out of the civil rights of others please.

    Your contribution is not requested or welcomed.

    Yours sincerely

  5. I think the statement is the wrong way round, surely it is the medieval thinking and practices of some churches that threatens the fabric of societies.

  6. The Halcyon 19 Nov 2009, 12:57pm

    Your Broken Society, Catholic Bishops of the USA, not OUR society.

  7. Interesting that we’re lumped in with the wider community of fornicators – anyone who has sex outside marriage, and married heterosexuals who use contraception. Looks like the leaders of the Catholic Church are hell-bent on making themselves appear as irrelevant as possible.

  8. Ok, these Bishops are 100% wrong. They are completely out of touch with reality. And they have just alienated at least 50% of the Catholic congregation who are either gay or not married in the way they are prepared to recognise as marriage. If they sent all the unmarried mothers in my local church home there would be a lot of empty seats and a lot less kids being baptised, confirmed etc. If they sent the gays and the divorcees home, too, and their kids there wouldn’t be any alter servers or eucharistic ministers. No way do they just lump all those people under a baner of ‘sinners’ and sit there all self-righteous.

    But Simon Murphy, I really think you need to calm down on the priests and paedophile thing. Your assumption that every Catholic priest is a paedo is just as misinformed as the assumption that every gay man is one. I don’t know how many priests are involved in the abuse, but it isn’t ALL of them by a long shot. The decent ones have as much right to be upset as any gay man or woman subjected to ignorant assumptions about them.

  9. Philip Lowe, Jr. 19 Nov 2009, 1:53pm

    I am a former Catholic who was at one time involved in the Catholic church’s ex gay ministry called: “Courage”. I am sad to say that this action of the US Catholic Bishops does not at all surprise me. It disgusts me, but does not surprise me. All of the comments that have been left concerning the pedophile problem which is world wide, are very valid and correct.

    In the last six months or so, my partner and I have become members of a local Episcopal Cathedral where the attitude about LGBT individuals is very different than those of the Catholic church. It is refreshing and beautiful. My partner and I are welcomed there, we are affirmed there and we could some day have our relationship blessed and recognized.

    The Catholic Bishops are not the only one’s who speak and they do not speak for everyone. They only speak for themselves.

    I am going to post a link to a story that was written in the Washington Post this past week. It is called “A Christian case for same-sex marriage” and it is written by Episcopal Bishop John Bryson Chane of the Diocese of Washington. It is excellent, I invite you to read. The link is http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/john_bryson_chane/2009/11/a_christian_case_for_same-sex_marriage.html

    Keep up the fight, and tell the Catholic Bishops to flush their paper, after all that’s all it’s really good for.

  10. Brian Burton 19 Nov 2009, 2:13pm

    Philip Lowe Jr.
    I concure with your sentements exactley. They churn out these homophobic directives in order to disguise their own crimes against children in their care over the years. To have grown men tearfully recalling the constant fear of foot-steps approaching their bed and the Catholic Preist on duty that night wanting his sexual needs satisfied. Then when the Preist is fount out, the Bishops protect them. The Catholic Church should be phisically disbanded in my estimation!

  11. this article is not even about paedophilia. it’s about the attitude of bishops towards anyone who doesnt’ get married in a catholic church according to their rules. bringing in the paedo issue just takes us off onto a tangent, though since that always happens on Pink, I don’t know why i’m surprised.

  12. Funny how they never explain quite how all these relationships they fear and hate actually threaten society – we are just supposed to assume that the black magic is mysteriously at work. It makes me recall a synod of bishops in the late Roman Empire getting irritated with the increasing pretensions of the Pope (a new phenomenon in those days). His Holiness insisted that they all accept his view of doctrine; they replied that they would read his submission with all the attention it deserved. Think about it.
    They are mad and irrelevant, as well as corrupt and hypocritical.

  13. Simon Murphy 19 Nov 2009, 2:43pm

    No 7: Rose: “Your assumption that every Catholic priest is a paedo is just as misinformed as the assumption that every gay man is one. I don’t know how many priests are involved in the abuse, but it isn’t ALL of them by a long shot.”

    I am not claiming that all priests are paedos so I wish people would stop attributing this opinion to me. I have NEVER made that statement.

    However what must not be forgotten is how the catholic church hates us. They have no reasoning or logic to their hatred. It is an instinctive, reflexive hatred that goes all the way to the very top – the Pope.

    I think that in the face of such irrational bigotry it is a very effective weapon against these bigots to remind them at every turn how they lack the moral authority to judge others based on the systemic abuse of children by the priests and the protection of priestly paedophiles by the hierarchy.

    No-one knows how many catholic priests molested children but in EVERY country where the church were allowed to control schools; orphanages etc there have been thousands of children sexually; physcically and mentally abused by the priests and nuns. Ireland; The UK; USA; Canada; Australia; Spain; Mexico etc etc. And in each of those countries it has not been isolated incidents. It has been widespread and happened over generations.

    These morons try to use ‘god’ to justify their bigotry. I say we throw their own shameful, sick history back in their face at every turn. They have no hesitation in slandering us. We need to remind people just how ridiculous it is for the catholic church to sit in moral judgement over anyone.

    It is a perfectly reasonable question to ask. If a Bishop says we are threatening the fabric of society, I see nothing wrong in asking him to confirm whether or not he has ever molested a child or protected a child molester.

  14. Simon Murphy 19 Nov 2009, 2:53pm

    No 10: Rose: “ringing in the paedo issue just takes us off onto a tangent”

    No it doesn’t. I think it is very useful to bring their shameful acceptance and protection of paedophilia into the discussion.

    People hate paedophiles. The catholic church over the last hundred years was a safe haven for many paedophiles (not ALL priests just in case you think I am claiming that). People need to be reminded of that. Otherwise they may think the catholic church actually has the moral authority to sit in judgement on others.

    I used to be a catholic altar boy so I certainly don’t think I have any reason to protect the church.

  15. “A pastoral letter agreed at the US Conference of Catholic Bishops warns about the dangers of same-sex marriage and partnerships, saying they will affect everyone.”

    Well, if my personal life and my right to live with who I choose is everyone’s business, why are these people not paying for my mortgage and contributing to my expensive lifestyle?

    I’ll be sure to send my bank details on to the bishop, as he’s seems all to eager to interfere with MY life….

  16. Simon, out of curiosity, are you still technically Catholic? I assume you have been baptised, have you “defected” from the church?

  17. Oh Bishops Dears, we thee implore
    Just GO AWAY and spout no more!
    You’ve screwed the folks you represent,
    Now it’s high time that YOU repent!
    You’ve peddled hate, you’ve peddled fear
    Instead of LOVE as Christ made clear.
    Stop judging others and examine
    YOURSELVES!

    Judge not, that ye shall not be judged!

  18. David North 19 Nov 2009, 3:52pm

    The sole reason that priests are not allowed to marry is due to the First Lateran Council of 1123 stating that priests, deacons, subdeacons, and monks were absolutely forbidden to have concubines, contract marriage or even remain married.

    The reason was to ensure that money remained with the Church and was not inherited.

    Ergo, it was about greed.

    Very christian that is……NOT

  19. Oh here we go yet again. Those bishops trying to blame gay people for being the root of all evil in the known world *sigh*. How predictable…and pathetic.

  20. Robert, ex pat Brit 19 Nov 2009, 4:06pm

    And how many catholic brides wearing white dresses walking down the aisle are virgins on their wedding day? Last time I checked, a secular marriage licence issued to religious couples who intend to have a religious ceremony, doesn’t mandate procreation. The problem with this particular cult is that it thinks it owns marriage to the exclusion of others. They’re so damned hypocritical, it defies rationality. Its an evil force in the world.

  21. They’re right – same-sex marriage does threaten the fabric of society, if what that phrase means is “creating a fairer, freer, healthier and happier society than the one we’ve had for ages”, or “challenges us to face the fact that the concept, religious attitude to, and legal structure of marriage has changed dramatically over the past 1500 years in Christendom, not to mention all the millenia before that in every other culture in the history of humanity”.

    It IS a serious threat to the fabric of society. Which is good, because society could do with being re-woven from stronger, cleaner cloth from sustainable sources.

    Note the radical difference in tone to that of the British Quakers, who recognised the legitimacy of same-sex relationships in 1963, and decided en masse this year to not only start recording all civil partnerships in the same way they record marriages regardless of the law, but also to actively lobby the UK government to extend marriage to same-sex couples.

    What’s the difference? One organisation requires that members sign up to a specific creed and agree with specific theological rulings; the other believes that the divine is accessible by all, that the Light is found in every person, and emphasises both personal and corporate responsibility within each Meeting. Top-down hierarchy and consensus decision making. I’ll leave you to work out which one’s which.

  22. @ Anon: Its probably also worth bearing in mind that Quakers follow a philosophy which is based on christian tenets, but not the religion as such. Although descibing it as I have is a crude approximation at best I know.

  23. Simon Murphy 19 Nov 2009, 4:32pm

    No 15: Will: “Simon, out of curiosity, are you still technically Catholic? I assume you have been baptised, have you “defected” from the church? ”

    Technically I’m not in that I do not believe in ‘god’ therefore cannot be one. But I was baptised as an infant

  24. douglas in canada 19 Nov 2009, 4:47pm

    When a ship and its crew are enjoying good weather, they feel freer to explore; when they feel under attack, and are afraid of ‘going down,’ rules come into play and freedoms are lost. I think the church is going down, and this is a last-ditch grab at some form of control [although I realize they've been 'grabbing' for a long time.]

    The idea of “the fabric of society” is a good one, but they are too narrow about it. That fabric, as has already been mentioned above, is stronger and richer when woven with different kinds of threads.
    And society truly is an interweaving. None of us grew up solely and singly under the influence and care of our parents, as the only two people on the face of the earth, capable of doing so. We had aunts and uncles, grandparents, cousins, teachers, neighbors, even strangers, all contributing to our growth. In the list, parents may rank high, but they are not alone. If marriage seems to be the qualifier for ability or appropriateness, are parents supposed to prevent their children from associating with unmarried adults? After all, if a single parent can’t do it right WITHIN the home, then a single person shouldn’t be capable OUTSIDE the home either.

    Cohabiting… is the sin ‘cohabitation’ or ‘fornication’? They need to make up their minds. They probably just want people to live alone, build up their sexual frustation, go talk to the priest about it, so that he might “help” them out. For all we know, there might be a study showing that when people started to cohabitate, the priests’ ability to “get some” started to decline.

    Contraception is “objectively wrong” and “essentially opposed to God’s plan for marriage and proper human development”. Hmmm… Man and woman marry, truly love each other and are physically passionate about it. Start to have children, even though they are poor [The church does NOTHING about the poor part.] Because of their love and passion and the lack of permission to use contraception, they have more kids – kids they can’t afford to look after. Where is compassion in this? I suppose the church will have to tell them to stop loving each other. Now, isn’t that is cheery f**k-up!

    All in all, it’s amazing that a church (that prevents its spiritual leaders from marrying) seems so informed and qualified to tell married people what to do. Try to write a cookbook without ever having handled a pot or turned on a stove. Tell me how to build my house, when you’ve never picked up a hammer or saw.

    Let’s start planning the church’s farewell party! It won’t be long in coming.

  25. Philip Lowe, Jr. 19 Nov 2009, 4:50pm

    When I was coming out, my counselor at the time was working at a local AIDS Project. At the time I was working as an organist at a local Catholic parish. The counselor I was seeing was a former Orthodox Seminarian who was thrown out when he came out.

    He told me something that to this day, just makes me so angry. He told me that I would be hated by many Catholic Priests for the rest of my life, mostly because I will have learned how to come out and how to be a good gay man who will love myself and love others in the way God created me. It is a lesson I would learn that many of the Priests he has counseled in his office AFTER they have been infected by HIV. The local Diocese would send their infected Priests to the AIDS project before they send them off somewhere far away so no one would see them again or know what happened to them.

    Imagine that? I say this statement is just a snap shot of what they are not facing with in their own walls, and they want the rest of the nation to stop reminding them. Well, too bad, they need to be reminded.

    BTW, a recent new website has been establish to OUT certain closeted gay priests in the Archdiocese of Washington.

    Again, I am so thankful that at least the central powers of the Episcopal Church do not think quite like this. There are members who are not happy and even some Bishops. But the Episcopal Church and our Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori plan to move ahead with allowing LGBT individuals to be considered to be Bishops and the development of same-sex marriage rites. They just believe that recognizing the dignity and integrity of LGBT people is very important. As I said in an earlier posting, these Catholic Bishops are not the only voices that speak. They do not represent my faith, the Episcopal Bishop of the Diocese of Minnesota does.

  26. By the way the pastoral letter can be found at http://www.usccb.org/laity/LoveandLife/MarriageFINAL.pdf . It’s a very interesting point this – whether homosexual orientation as such, and same-sex unions *do* have the capacity to rock society and affect traditional marriage, or do *not*.

    In a recent case in California a plaintiff was frustrated by a judge who asked, reasonably enough, whether he could cite any specific way that heterosexual marriage was damaged by the existence of same-sex unions. He couldn’t.

    The reverse is the “radical” answer, from Anon (above) at 16.07, who takes the view that recognition of same-sex unions will make for a more equitable society, one that doesn’t preserve the status quo.

    American Catholics form approximately 22% of the US population, which seems to suggest something about the relative importance of the USCCB in US society. The unarguable fact is that extending rights to minorities does not *subtract* anything at all from majorities who enjoy the same rights.

  27. How is it that people who profess to work in the name of a true and just God can condemn people for who they are or what they do in the provacy of their homes? Why are Catholics so sexually obsessed with people’s sex lives?? My world does not revolve around my sex life. I happen to be a gay woman whose life is just as boring and just as wonderful as anyone elses. I dont sit and wonder what priests do in their bedroom and I really resent them being in mine. It appears the Catholic faith represses people to the point where only one opinion matters. Im sure Jesus would embrace solid loving families no matter what form they take. I have raised my daughters to adulthood in a lesbian-headed home where their opinions matter, their creativity is embraced and their straightness is encouraged as that is inherently who they both are,,straight people. I enjoy their gay and str8 friends and I love the young men they fall in love with regardless of their culture or colour.

    Diversity and inclusion is the religion in my home and woe be unto anyone who steps over the threshold with racial or cultural biases. I have made my home a positive space for anyone who wants to just be themself whether they are black, brown, white, gay, straight, jewish, muslim, christian and yes, catholic. We do not discriminate against who and what someone is. We do feel sorry for homophobes, bigots and racists,,, however I would never pull up the welcome mat if one of these lost souls needed some tea and a friendly face in a time of need. I have raised two young women who are well-read, diverse, sweet and kind, inclusive and embracing. They are well-spoken and very well-liked. If this is the kind of family these Catholic priests wants to crush I am truly sorry for thier souls and their black hearts. What a sad time for any Catholic.

  28. As a practising Christian I am often saddened by the language and the vitriol aimed at the church in this section;It makes me realise just how the churche’s stand on the Gay issue inflames literate, articulate men and women whose observations we read on these comment posts.

    However, it is articles like this one that really inflame me and make me realise that pronouncements such as this from the US Catholic bishops, promulgate hatred and irrepairable harm to any form of reconcilliation between Gay people and those who represent the established Church

  29. “But Simon Murphy, I really think you need to calm down on the priests and paedophile thing. Your assumption that every Catholic priest is a paedo is just as misinformed as the assumption that every gay man is one. I don’t know how many priests are involved in the abuse, but it isn’t ALL of them by a long shot. The decent ones have as much right to be upset as any gay man or woman subjected to ignorant assumptions about them.”

    Rose, I totally agree. But I also aknowledge Simon’s frustration that priests can put their willies up children’s behinds and the gay community is somehow seen worse than that! As long as the Catholic church spews its vitriolic hatred amongst its masses the more frustrated the gay community seems to get. Let them fester in their hate, their ignorance of the human condition, their hatred towards any family not headed by opposite-gendered people. The rest of us should just carry on raising our wonderful inclusive children in our solid loving homes so that at least in some parts love and acceptance rules the day. Dont waste valuable time fretting over those that seem to have lost their way.

  30. Yes, I totally agree with you, Jax, about Simon’s frustration. It is partly out of concern for HIM that I think he ought to let it go. So much bitterness can’t be good for his own well-being.

    Since we ARE on the subject of the paedo priests after all, I may as well weigh in on that issue. Bad enough that it happened at all, and that it IS so very widespread. But instead of exposing those responsible, seeing them thrown out of the church and prosecuted as they ought to have been prosecuted, the church defended and excused and covered up. And that is why nobody is even entirely sure HOW widespread it was, and why there is such mistrust. And then this sort of thing comes along – Bishops criticising the lives of ordinary people who are harming nobody, it really does rankle.

  31. Simon Murphy 19 Nov 2009, 5:45pm

    No 30: Rose: “Yes, I totally agree with you, Jax, about Simon’s frustration. It is partly out of concern for HIM that I think he ought to let it go. So much bitterness can’t be good for his own well-being. ”

    I am confused. Let what go?

    I really fail to see where I am meant to be displaying bitterness.

    The Union of Bishops in the US says that my same sex union threatens the fabric of society. I merely asked them what moral authority they have to sit in judgement on someone else thanks to their sick history.

    They claim they are sorry and that things have changed. But the stories of systemic abuse and cover up continue to leak out, year after year. They want us all to forget the child sex abuse scandals which have so badly damaged their reputations.

    Well fair enough. But not if they are going to campaign against my civil and legal rights. I think we should all be reminding people how morally bankrupt the catholic church is, while they continue to try to hinder our rights. That seems like a perfectly reasonable and rational response to me.

    How is it bitter to question the moral authority of an organisation so mired in corruption, scandal and abuse as the catholic church.

    I don’t hate individual catholics. But the hierarchy are fair game, considering they feel entitled to criticise others.

  32. Its funny how one way or another they threaten us, and yet we do nothing to them in return. They are the aggressers, not us!

  33. Vo Dong Cung 19 Nov 2009, 5:57pm

    They said about carring for people, for childdren. But they only care for their ceation doctrime in their bible to be distroy, they care for their lies to be uncoved and humain standing up against them. So anyway they must win LGBT. That means they allway consider LGBT as their enemies. Please keep it in mind everytime they want to be as a friend.

  34. The blasted Xians are a threat to all decent people and should be rejected – how dare they try to infiltrate our communities?

  35. Angelia, christians can be gay, too. Nothing in the rules says that you have to be an atheist if you’re gay.

    Simon, for goodness sake, I dont want an argument with you. I agree with you on most issues. I just don’t share your level of passion.

  36. So my private life is adversely affecting “the intrinsic dignity of every human person”? I’m pretty sure most sane people couldn’t give a toss what I do in the privacy of my own home. I’m pretty sure most of these absurd homophobes are in the closet. That’s the only reason I can think of for their obsession with gay sex. Most people with moderate religious beliefs are actually extremely tolerant and compassionate (Jesus would be proud) but it’s just these zealots that cause all the problems.

  37. Jean-Paul Bentham 19 Nov 2009, 7:49pm

    Great story Jessica.

    “A pastoral letter agreed at the US Conference of Catholic Bishops warns about the dangers of same-sex marriage and partnerships, saying they will affect everyone.”

    “….they will affect everyone”???? Hello!!! They have affected everyone, and it’s G-R-E-A-T.

    Nobody pays attention to catholic bishops anyway, especially the pope.

    In my opinion if the bishops want to improve and/or strengthen the fabric of society, they need to allow…I should say beg…women to become bishops.

    If this pastoral letter has stirred up so much opposition in the UK, I can’t wait to see how American catholics react. Check it out in the New Catholic Reporter from Kansas City (award-winning independent catholic reporting).

    Oh, and don’t forget to buy a china cup with the photo of ben16 stamped onto it when his hollowness comes to see you all pretty soon on an …official visit.

    But I ain’t bitter.

  38. Brian Burton 19 Nov 2009, 8:11pm

    Rose,
    Dear, dear Simon one-man gung-ho anti-Christian whacho mania. This dominates his arrogant attitude to his wretchet existance, for that is all it is and will continue so, untill he sees the light! Such an anti Christian was Saul of Tarsus and look what happened to him on the road to Demascus! Simon will continue for now boring the tits off all of us untill that fateful day when he takes a long walk off a short pier!…Yippee!

  39. Brian Burton 19 Nov 2009, 8:19pm

    Whats all these Gay Bishops complaining about anyway? We’ll let Simon Murphy take them to a Vicars tea party!

  40. Hmm, thinking I give up the gay thing and seek to live like a bishop. That would be living in palaces, surrounded by antiques, wearing long gold frocks and nice hats surrounded exclusively by other men with half the day spent on my knees…..

  41. Marriage is one man and one woman and sex only within marriage and then only for procreation. Well, that’s the adulterers forbidden accesss to church, the divorced as well, the co-habiters, anyone who’s had sex before marriage or without getting married………..

    Now that leaves……….

  42. This is really bad news for the B16 and Georg.
    I really do feel bad for them.

  43. Jean-Paul Bentham 19 Nov 2009, 10:05pm

    Here’s the first of the American reactions written up in the “National Catholic Reporter”.

    It will only take a minute or so to read, haha!

    hxxp://ncronline.org/news/bishops-claim-moral-authority-amidst-widespread-confusion

  44. Well not much I can add to what everyone said without re-treading the same wording, so I will just say.

    Dear “saviors of man kind”, Please stop trying to pretend you are interested in saving a society which you have condemned since the discovery of electricity and clear thinking. If being gay and enjoying life is wrong, then being/becoming one of you is already my own personal vision hell.

    Yours truly

    -Progressive Society

  45. Is anyone surprised at this decision? As if the infestation which calls itself the “US Catholic Church” is not the world’s most dangerous bunch of right wing bigots…? These moronic buffoons have stood in the way of progress ever since their inception.

  46. Justin Hafey 20 Nov 2009, 7:29am

    The real threat to the common good are these out of control bigots having as much power as they do.

  47. Come on guys and gals. You have to expect these kind of rants as the old ways start to fail and mankind is left with only the “GOD” it has created. Don’t get me wrong GOD is alive but is so tiered of people against each other for what does not pertain to them. God has purpose for ALL not just those with small minds and limited faith in the unfolding words of God not man. Please stop putting words in GODs mouth. God can and has spoken many times and will continue to speak. But you just have to listen and know when he is speaking to you.
    Unfortunately this has happened in the past weather it be the color of your skin, the origin in which you come from…or just the very thought of freedom would get you killed. So why does the church and state decide to continue this hatred and preach hatred. Sounds so familiar does it not?
    2013

  48. Brian Burton 20 Nov 2009, 8:38am

    Timothy dear, would you please repeat that again?

  49. Aussie Gay Activist Paul Mitchell 20 Nov 2009, 8:50am

    Actually the opposite is true:

    “Religion, churches, war, famine, hatred of others, priests (who are all child molestors), the clergy is the real one’s that is a multifaceted threat to the very fabric of society in all of it’s forms”!!!!!!!

  50. Aussie Gay Activist Paul Mitchell 20 Nov 2009, 8:55am

    I became an atheist when I was 14 and then when George W. Bush said this quote: “God told me to invade Iraq”, that is when I started to despise/frown on religion in all of it’s forms!!!!!

    Religion sucks, churches suck, priests are all a bunch of child molestors!!! Religion just causes all the problems of the world.

    Why does religion exist anyway??????

  51. Brian Burton 20 Nov 2009, 9:07am

    Aussie Gay Activist Paul,
    It is not Religion to blame for all your troubles, it’s people who use Religion to suit there own ajendas. Islamists do exactly the same to excuse their atrocities and so-called Holy-wars. Try and put the blame where it belongs old cobber, your fair-dinkum is out of Cinck I thinck!

  52. This has nothing to do with religion as much as dirty ol men who hide behind what other men have written in a ‘holy book’. These people can do so because that way they don’t have to explain themselves as the dirty pervents They actually are. I’m sure they would be horrified if we all went round thinking about what they all do in bed so why would they do it just because we are gay? There is more to us but these vile people feel they have to right to spurt out so called ‘religious’ hatred speeches that in actual fact is simply because they don’t dare think we are just as loving and caring as well as provide in the wider commuity. These people can’t think for themselves so they hide behind the biggest tool, the holy books. God put us on Earth to love, have faith and live in peace. Not judge. I strongly believe God put gay people on Earth to stop overcrowding esp from the likes of the men who feel it’s their ‘religious duty’ to inpregnant every woman on earth.

  53. Aussie Paul:- religion exists because when it works it keeps things calm. Without it, it creates choas. People have their right to believe in their religion, which should not be about hatred, nobody has to right to take away others beliefs. In the end religion is blame for wars etc but it’s an excuse because religion Should be about not harming others. It’s science that will end the day not religion no matter how much it’s used as an excuse.

  54. personally I am on Simon’s side. I think Christianity is pointless drivel – a socio-emotional crutch for those disinclined to think for themselves. However, many people disagree with me and I have no right to impose my views open them although it saddens me that we have still so many of such in advanced societies like the UK. At least, gay Christians, if you are going to be gay Christians, be Christians in churches which acknowledge your right to be gay. Join the URC (as I understand Brian to have done), or if you have to a sympathetic Anglican parish (I think you’re hopeful but the C of E is a quasi democracy and attempts to reform it from the inside are not totally irrational – though I wouldn’t bother if I were you). it’s not a total contradiction in terms to be a gay Christian. but after what the bishops have said here, and they won;t change this millennium, being a gay catholic (or a gay evangelical Christian) and supporting this by your presence in their churches is intellectual dishonesty of a high order.

  55. What exactly is “the fabric of society”? Does this phrase actually have any real meaning?

  56. Brian Burton 20 Nov 2009, 12:29pm

    Agnostic,
    Hary knows I am a Gay Christian ( not Fundamentalist though as Simon Knows!) I have Probably lived longer than most on this thread and been around the block a good few times more too. Now, Agnostic, let me explain to you what the meaning of ‘Fabric of Society’ is. I remember very well, Beirut in in Lebanon in 1960, the most wonderful advanced and pro-Western city in the middle east. Then civil-war destroyed Beirut and it’s whole ‘Fabric’ and even today, that Fabric is still non-existant and the country devided. Bosnia in the 90s. The Serbs smashed the Bosnians’ fabric of society but has since been rebuilt with the help of the UN peace-keeping force. There are eliments of humanity in the UK who would like to smash our Fabric of Society right here under your nose Agnostic and you would’nt have Pink News threads to ask a question like ‘What exactly is ‘the Fabric Of Sosiety.’ The people I am refering to now are those who look at a map of the world and expect to find Utopia on there somewhere. So, Agnostic, I implore you, gaurd the British ‘Fabric of Society’ with your Life, it’s very dear, just as you are Agnostic and Harry and Simon and all the Children of Pink!

  57. not too long ago that these biggots were shouting out at mixed race marriages. Their attitudes should be left in the history books. Certain religions and parts of religions have spread hatred and bigotry for centuries. They should now be pulled into line with other organisations when it comes to equality and spreading hatred. there is no place in modern society for any of this hatred.

  58. Brian Burton 20 Nov 2009, 1:47pm

    Harvey like Harry you are a splendid fellow. In the old days nobody pretended to to be a bit better than his neighbour. In fact, to be a bit better than your neighbour was concidered to be silly and middle-class. Nowadays with out modern mania for PC and morality, everyone has to pose as a paragon of putity. It’s led us into the paranoid state we are now!

  59. Father Andrew Gentry 20 Nov 2009, 4:05pm

    The utterances of the US Conference of Catholic bishops or for that matter any other assortment of bishops is as useless and irrelevant as a hind teat on a wart hog! What these “good ole boys” simply do not understand is no one with any amount of intelligence above that of an earth worm cares what they say or takes what they say as anything even remotely of value! Just like the Temple Establishment of ancient Palestine they live in a world of their own making thankfully most of the rest of us do not. Whether it is religion or ideology or science or philosophy people always find a way to be misuse, abuse and otherwise render impotent the true values of the same!

  60. Jean-Paul Bentham 20 Nov 2009, 4:11pm

    agnostic (57):

    The “fabric of society”?? It’s anybody’s guess. Here’s mine:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcGBcJKalrQ

    Timothy (49):
    You are part of the fabric of society, ain’t ya? 2013 what, moron.

  61. Jean-Paul Bentham 20 Nov 2009, 4:16pm

    There is no point in “standing up” to bishops; it just gives them a reason to fill up their brandy sniffers.

    There is no point writting to bishops; their thrashcans overfloweth.

    What we are witnessing here is the birth of countless thousands of atheists, or, the proverbial shot in the foot.

  62. Who the ckuff cares what a few daft old bitch-ups, Roman Catholic or otherwise, spout on about.
    I couldn’t give a monkey’s.
    Keith.
    SALFORD

  63. Derek North 20 Nov 2009, 10:09pm

    I really don’t get it with Gay Christians.

    Your bible hates you. No matter how you paint it up.

    You can of course re-interprete the much re-translated book, to suit, however it still hates you.

    The majority of the worlds populous that reads this comic and their own versions of it believe it too, hence all the daily grief gay people have to go through.

    So, have your Adam and Eve, which of course includes incest as how did their next ‘begat’ child produce another as it only had Adam and Eve to sh@g.

    Snakes talk to people, bit of “Harry Potter” there, and of course
    lets not forget feeding 5000 from a bit of bread.

    Lets also look at graven images.

    Christ allegedly died on the Cross. Therefore our religion should wear the instrument of torture as a rememberance.

    What if Christ was Guillotined.

    Would you all wear little silver guillotines round your necks and complain to employment tribunals centuries later when those who see through it ask you to stop it.

    Don’t you get it.

    Its all a fib.

  64. Simon Murphy 21 Nov 2009, 6:15am

    I propose a new ‘Bible’

    I want Jordan/Katie Price to write a new volume of memoirs (she’a alreasy had 3, at the age of 31 – but who’s counting?) and we should all declare it our Holy Book. Jordan can play the ‘Mary’ character. Harvey can play the ‘Jesus’ character. And Peter Andre can play ‘Joseph’

  65. Brian Burton 21 Nov 2009, 7:47am

    Simon Murpy,
    And ofcourse you are His Un-Holiness the atheist Pope!?

  66. Brian Burton 21 Nov 2009, 7:52am

    You anti-Christian jug-heads, you are so pathetic, I find I feel Guilty to laugh at your crass ignorance!

  67. Brian Burton 21 Nov 2009, 9:02am

    Simon,
    Never fear Dear, The Lord of Heaven and Earth is with you to prevent you falling, that you may not dash your hand against a stone.

  68. Brian: you seem to be very angry at atheists. You really need to look at yourself and realise the delusions which are gripping you (I,mean, someone rising from the dead, how stupid can you get :-) ) are just that, delusions because you’re secretly scared of death. The late Sir Arthur C Clarke had it right: religious belief and practice are mild forms of mental illness.

  69. “The Lord of Heaven and Earth is with you to prevent you falling, that you may not dash your hand against a stone.”

    WTF?

    Are you taking the piss? Do you have a medical condition that affects your mental capacity Brian???

    I’ve been reading your comments with shock and awe, as they say. You want to be christian, by all means do, but don’t dare have the audacity to enter a gay site and offend us by defending the so called christian faiths who condemn us as sinners!!! What’s more disgusting is you how insult those who question the fallacy of religion!!! How dare you, you pompous ignorant ass! Can you prove a god’s existence? No, you can’t. So keep your PERSONAL faith, and f*** off.

    You’re a fool, Mr. Burton, a pompous and stupid fool, and Simon et al is right to laugh at your silly attacks.

  70. Brian Burton 21 Nov 2009, 2:31pm

    Harry, Terry, Take a hike you ignorant creeps. My exchanges with Simon are just that! Humorous exchanges, so shut your bus-sized gobs and give your arses a chance creeps!

  71. Just heard on the News at One Radio 4, that the Pope and Rowan Williams have met in Rome and have agreed to press for “..closer relations”
    The mind races!
    I hope they will be very happy together.
    Wonder who’ll do what and if it’ll be platonic or tectonic.

    Daft old pair of tuncs.
    Keith.

    Oh..!!!!

    “Bus sized gobs…??!!”
    Oh! Brian Burty!

    I love THAT..!

    Can I pinch it…or have you copyrighted it..?

    Just luv it!
    Hahaha.

  72. Burty!
    Someone recently posted a comment that you “buy a dictionary”.

    Don’t you dare, Brian..!
    Ha.

    You just, in the words of the song, which I am sure you will recall, “Stay as sweet as you are, don’t let a thing ever change you. Stay as sweet as you are, don’t let the world re-arrange you..!”

    You are a hoot, Brian, and loveable wiv it…
    Hahaha!
    K

  73. Is that it Burton? Is that your response???? You expect us to think that your efforts to silence anyone with an opposing view of your witch doctor religion, is juts being “humorous exchanges”????

    LOL! Pathetic. We’re just not as stupid as your are, Brian, to believe that load of baloney!

    Is there anything as sad as the oxymoron of a “gay christian”? I’ll keep my self respect, thanks, Brian, you can keep your your cheap playground insults and your daft defence of that nazi-pope.

  74. Brian Burton 21 Nov 2009, 5:59pm

    Terry, Get a life you moron! You are a ‘stalker’ you pratt-face.

  75. Brian Burton 21 Nov 2009, 6:20pm

    Keith,
    Thank you for your sweet kind words dear, at present, as you see I have a moronic stalker dogging my footsteps, I bet his main-chance is stalking Children!

  76. Brian Burton 21 Nov 2009, 6:35pm

    Keith dear,
    There is such a lack of Love on these threads! He says this so I say that, pure hate I’d say!
    Love is fed by the imagination, by which we become wiser than we know, better than we feel, nicer than we are; by which we can see life as a whole….only what is good can feed…Love. But anything can feed hate.

  77. Jean-Paul Bentham 21 Nov 2009, 9:03pm

    Many of the teachings of Jesus(whether he was fictitious or not) make a lot of sense to me, although I have left the RCC to become an agnostic, I suppose. Who cares?

    The fact remains, if we return to the subject at hand, that the pathological sexual teachings of the RCC, American bishops and all, have caused, and continue to cause, nothing but misery to countless millions of human beings who will one day refuse to give a penny to this outdated and crystalized religious business…I mean institution.

    Then B16 and Rowan, and any other religious drag queen, will end up wearing what John the Baptist supposedly wore, and let’s have a look at today’s special on the menu, shall we.

    But I ain’t bitter. Everyone has a right to express her/his point of view, innit. That is one thing PinkNews has taught me, finally.

  78. Jean-Paul Bentham 21 Nov 2009, 9:20pm

    Laughter = best medicine!

    So there’s a guy at a bar, staring blankly at his drink. He stays like that for hours.

    Then, this big trouble-making truck driver steps next to him, takes the drink from the guy, and just drinks it all down. The poor man cries. The truck driver says,

    “Come on man, I was just joking. Here, I’ll buy you another drink. I just can’t stand to see a man cry.”

    “No, it’s not that. This day is the worst of my life. First, I fall asleep, and I go late to my office. My boss, outrageous, fires me. When I leave the building, to my car, I found out it was stolen. The police said that they can do nothing. I get a cab to return home, and when I leave it, I remember I left my wallet and credit cards there. The cab driver just drives away.”

    “I go home, and when I get there, I find my wife in bed with the gardener. I leave home, and come to this bar. And just when I was thinking about putting an end to my life, you show up and drink my poison.”

    Yuk, yuk!

  79. Although I have belief in God I don’t have a single faith. I guess I’m best decribed as an anthropologist as I kinda believe there’s good and bad in all religions. Don’t forget that what they say about gays they also say about other religions. If you belong to another other than your own apparently you’ll go to hell anyway or be stoned to death as not a true believer, weither your gay or straight, yet most if not all worship the same God. That’s why I have to question a lot of what a holy books says. They are just written by men (mostly) nothing to do with the words of God. I just don’t believe God would want you dead for believing in him but not belonging to the right faith. For that reason I can’t help but think faith is what you and you alone has to have and believe.

  80. Brian Burton 22 Nov 2009, 9:29am

    There is no such place as hell in the after-life. (We tend to create that here on earth dears, don’t we?) Absloutely unforgivable, trying to confuse people with this subject-matter. one of the greatest figures in literature since the Greek days Keats remarked that he had as much pleasure conceiving the evil as he had in conceiving the good. I don’t intend standing remote from what I firmly belive and what is an unshakable bilief an implicit belief in Christ.

  81. Brian you clearly are not able to argue rationally. You say (with various attempts to spell it correctly: remember i before e except after c) that you have an unshakeable and implicit belief in Christ. That does not indicate that you have any rational basis for such a belief, just a blind acceptance of the infantile drivel in the gospels . And it puts you in the company of some pretty undesirable people – even the URC has, as I understand it, a “moratorium” on debate on the issue, in other words has too many bigots in it to adopt safely a gay affirming position. Try the novel concept of thinking for yourself – or maybe you are a self hating gay, a traitor to the gay community, like the gay catholics or the gay mormons?

  82. “There is no such place as hell in the after-life.”

    This is the ultimate in pretentious stupidity. You said this like an afterlife is a given! Since when? Can you prove this afterlife? No. Can anyone? No. So what’s your proof? Oh, wait, you don’t have any, do you? No. But I’m sure we’ll get some 1920′s styles insult to tell us to shut up, as that is all you can do when faced with an logic.

    “There is such a lack of Love on these threads!”

    Really? And your stupid insults towards anyone who doesn’t believe in your religious nonsense is spreading the “love”??? Yeah, your a Christian all right Brian, you have the two classic traits that makes you a typical one:

    – Hypocrisy
    – A lower intelligence

    Well done….

    …..Moron.

  83. Jean-Paul Bentham 22 Nov 2009, 4:48pm

    In defense of my old buddy, Brian, I must say that he is evolving, as we all are, at his own pace.

    It’s just possible that he has found a comfort in the fellowship of his religious community that he does not find among us.

    I understand where you are coming from, Harry, and the situation is without a doubt highly confusing.

    Bottom line is I think you and Brian are both honest, good-living human beings. Like a good friend of mine told me the other day, friendships need not be compromised because of divergent points of view.

    Life will take care of hurting us over and over again,eh.

  84. You are entitled to your view John-Paul. At least you think. However, the mere fact that Brian appears to take comfort in the drivel he practises does not make either the beliefs right or help the millions of fellow gays that his religion has harmed.

    I accept that there may be individuals who have been so badly intimidated by others in their lives that it would be unfair to expect them to defend themselves rationally. I have no reason to suppose that Brian is one of those, merely a Christian who throws out insults rather than attempts to argue.

  85. Jean-Paul Bentham 23 Nov 2009, 6:15am

    Speaking of drivel, the pastoral letter (and that’s all it is, a letter) written by the American bishops states that:

    “To promote and protect marriage as the union of one man and one woman is itself a matter of justice. In fact, it would be a grave injustice if the state ignored the unique and proper place of husbands and wives, the place of mothers and fathers and the rights of children, who deserve from society clear guidance as they grow to sexual maturity.”

    How out of touch with reality can American bishops get? Do they have a doctorate in it or what?

    Why don’t the American bishops bring their baloon down a few hundred feet and distribute justice to the millions of children who are the result of a broken marriage between one man and one woman.

    And by distributing justice to neglected children, I don’t mean sucking on their joy sticks or raping them without lubricant.

    It’s our responsibility to see to it that these sex abuse scandals are never, not ever, overshadowed by some ludicrous pastoral letter whose only purpose is to attempt to pontificate to a people who respect the Universal Declaration of Human Rights a wee bit more than the a place called Hell whose only purpose is allow hard-earned money to make its way to the coffers of the crumbling Vatican multi-national business.

    How dare they speak of “the rights of children, who deserve from society clear guidance as they grow to sexual maturity.”

    They’ve got more nerve than there are stars in the galaxy!! And all the sheep can say is bah-bah-bah, or else they’ll be called heretics. Gasp!!

  86. I’m wading on this one a little late, but I’d say the “fabric of society” is more undermined by the child abuse and abhorrent cover-ups by this church than stable and loving gay relationships! Did these bishops even bother to read the sickening reports that come out about his church like the Ryan report? They should be ashamed to even show their faces in public.

    And Terry, I’m sure Brian didn’t mean to come across so parochial on his beliefs, I doubt he means to offend anyone, however I totally agree with Harry who is quite right to point out we gay people have been “badly intimidated by others in their lives that it would be unfair to expect them to defend themselves rationally”

  87. Will: my reference was actually to those Christians (gay ones in particular) who have had so much Christianity thrust down their throats that it is unfair to expect them to throw it off (Irish catholics are an excellent example).

  88. WTF? Bishops = Bigots.

  89. I stand corrected! :)

  90. People here may be interested to sign a petition to the Prime Minister on the Downing Street site:

    | We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to introduce
    | Marriage Equality.
    |
    | http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Gay-Marriage/
    |
    | We ask the Prime Minister to bring in equality for all British
    | citizens regardless of sexual orientation with regards to
    | Marriage. This means extending the rights of same sex couples to
    | become legally married as is legal in Canada, Belgium, 5 states
    | of the USA, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Spain and South
    | Africa. Civil Partnerships should also be open to heterosexual
    | couples who do not necessarily want to get married.
    |
    | Equal but different is NOT equality. Love is Love.

    Some homophobic and sexist idiot at No.10 has labeled the page “Gay marriage”

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