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Echoes of Prop 8 as Maine voters repeal gay marriage

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  1. Vincent Poffley 4 Nov 2009, 11:39am

    Utterly outrageous. Americans are strangely proud of their weird governmental system, but it is seriously lacking if this sort of thing is routinely allowed to happen. A majority of three percent is in favour of denying basic civil rights to a vast number of people, so it happens immediately and without recourse to appeals.

    This is not democracy at all. Democracy pays attention to the rights and needs of EVERYONE, minorities as well as the majority. This is Ochlocracy plain and simple – crude mob rule.

  2. This angers me so much, why do the hard core religious hate us so much? Why do they attack our right to love . It seems to me that abolioshing Religion would solve a lot of the worlds problems!

  3. Simon Murphy 4 Nov 2009, 12:16pm

    It is not just the hardcore religious in Main who hate us. In fact it is the majority of voters in Maine who are hateful scum – 52.7% of them in fact.

  4. Unbelievable :( Why does anyone have the right to discriminate against other human beings? And, no, sorry – saying that some special book says you can just won’t cut it. If gay people had got married in Maine it would not have affected straight marriages ONE BIT.

    Why not now let some states vote on black rights, eh? After all, it seems to be just fine to allow a majority to persecute a minority.

  5. vulpus_rex 4 Nov 2009, 12:25pm

    The tyrrany of the majority is an unfortunate side effect of Democracy.

    What I find amusing though is how the hard left bleat about its abuse in such cases as this but love it when it comes to small minded bits of class based spite such as banning fox hunting.

    The rights of the few should not be decided by the many.

  7. VIVA MAINE! Good news!

  8. Alesha what do you mean by that???

  9. Mihangel apYrs 4 Nov 2009, 1:01pm

    quite agree.

    all those Jews whining in the camps had nothing to complain about! This falls nicely in your view that people watching animals being torn apart while alive is somehow entertaining or sport rather than a manifestation of the nastier side of certain humans who would equally engage in hue and cry if they were allowed.

  10. mattincinci 4 Nov 2009, 1:11pm

    maine repeal gay marriage with the help of the catholic church, the number 1 reason gays need to let go of god

  11. Ah, Alesha welcome back. I missed your dull witted three word repartees:- so insightful, so intelligent. Brava! But seriously, you should take a break from smashing your face off a keyboard to dish out these little gems of wisdom, we don’t want you to tire yourself out now, honey, do we?

    How does America purport to be the “land of the free” when discrimination under the guise of democracy can take precedence over human rights? I’ll take the EU over the “land of the free” any day…. I don’t think these people know the meaning of the word “freedom”, no matter what they call their French Fries these days.

  12. Mihangel apYrs 4 Nov 2009, 1:28pm

    Let’ shope the proposition to ban divorce is now raised: a really good way to defend marriage wot?

  13. vulpus_rex 4 Nov 2009, 1:42pm

    Mihangel apYrs – Get a grp on your hysteria and try not to insult the memory of 6 million dead with your pathetic exaggerations.

    What kind of cretin thinks that a benign support of a tradition you may not like means you believe in sending people to gas chambers?


  14. Tim Hopkins 4 Nov 2009, 1:45pm

    People over 65 mostly oppose same-sex marriage; people under 25 mostly support it. The 5% margin against same-sex marriage in Maine and California will therefore be gone in around 7 years, to put it bluntly as opponents die out and younger supporters reach voting age. It is inevitable that we will win on this; it will just take a little longer.

  15. Brian Burton 4 Nov 2009, 1:46pm

    Trust you to make comparisons with ‘Con’ Party dogma!! Cameron can’t say U-turn if you want to, he’s U-turned already and split you down the middle again before his ‘Cast Iron Promise.’ Win next election with a split party? I don’t think so!

  16. Human rights shouldn’t be vote on by anyone.

    American gays should just migrate to another country, save your hope for a better place!

  17. Mihangel apYrs 4 Nov 2009, 1:57pm

    Demcoracy: vulpus-rex – your starement said it all – majority rules so the minority can suffer. What memory of 6 miilion dead Jews did I insult? They died for exactly the same reason that you whinged about foxhunting – a party with a democratic mandate brought it about.

    And to examine further your “benign” tradition: to yoiu also support bar and badgerr baiting, dog fights, cock fights, ratting? Or are these too working class to protect.

    YOU made the snide comment about the dictatorship of the democracy (and I believe you will willingly lap up whatever homophobic crap a tory govt will dish out), I have protested and fought against whichever coloured govt curtail our rights.

  18. Jen Marcus 4 Nov 2009, 1:59pm

    This, indeed, is tyranny by the majority. For the life of me, I cannot understand how basic civil rights allegedly guaranteed by the First Amendment of the US Constitution: Freedom of Association and in the Equal Protection clause of that constitution can be put to a referendum and vote. Under such a process, Blacks would still be slaves and they, and women would not have the right to vote. I think the fundamental underlying problem is the twisted BS coming from religions, their “unholy” archaic, pre-scientific and metaphoric books and scriptures coupled with and exacerbated by their ministers reiterating those twisted lies and half truths from their church pulpits to their followers; not done for the glory of God of Love and Justice, but to maintain their personal and institutional power, prestige, property and possessions. The problem also lies in the fact that many people have so much existential angst that they are afraid to challenge these charlatans because they fear damnation in some after life, or they just don’t give a damn because it doesn’t directly effect them. Today, and if ever, in Maine, and the rest of the USA, Not So Much, The Land Of The Free!

  19. Vincent Poffley 4 Nov 2009, 2:17pm

    As soon as democracy descends into the tyranny of the majority it is no longer democracy. The word comes from the Greek – “demos” means “the people” and “krasia” means power. The important thing to note is that the demos is NOT simply the majority of the people, it is ALL the people. A measure which discriminates against certain sections of the demos is thus NOT a democratic measure. Aristotle coined the term I used above to describe this kind of thing – Ochlocracy, meaning the rule of the mob (specifically a mob of sailors in the Attic dialect, but I digress) – which was the dark face of Democracy in the same way that Tyranny was the dark face of Monarchy. We who value democracy and fairness would be wise to recognise this distinction today.

  20. vulpus_rex 4 Nov 2009, 2:19pm

    Should you care to cast your narrow, quick to judge mind over the originial post, Mirhangel, I don’t believe I supported the Tyrrany of Democracy I merely highlighted its existence – please don’t twist this into a perverse legitimisation of the holocaust.

    I rather think you have your own double standards to excuse – you appear to favour a democratic abuse when it prohibits something you don’t like the idea of, e.g fox hunting. Again something I don’t actually state I support but use as a very apposite example of the apparent hypocrisy of people like you.

  21. Direct democracy is mob rule. Imagine what would have been the effects of this sort of thing on the civil rights of Catholics in Northern Ireland, or on those of foreign immigrants virtually anywhere.

  22. Robert, ex pat Brit 4 Nov 2009, 2:26pm

    Alesha, you dumb f–ktard, we may have lost in Maine and California, but for every loss there will be an eventual gain. Then…we will come after you and your kind, big time, guaranteed, to give you a dose of your own hate medicine. I’ll leave that for you to figure out, assuming you have a brain. F–k your god and your cult too!

  23. Folks, I think some of your understanding of democracy isn’t entirely correct. The vote of the majority is but one aspect of Democracy, and the “tyranny of Democracy” only occurs when democracy fails.

    In political theory, democracy describes a small number of related forms of government and also a political philosophy, and there are two principles that any definition of democracy includes:- equality and freedom.

    The will of the majority is not supposed to over ride the freedoms and equality of the whole.

    What Maine and California have engaged in is the imposition of the discriminatory beliefs of the majority on the minority, this is not democracy as its is understood to be.

  24. Mihangel apYrs 4 Nov 2009, 2:51pm

    using terminology such as “benign tradition” and “small minded bits of class based spite such as banning fox hunting” rather suggests your feelings – though I imagine someone practicing the pendantic sophistication that you exhibit finde it easy to resile from clear statements.

    The issue of fox-hunting removes a right from some people to kill in an unpleasant way some animal. The vote in Maine removes the right of some people (lesbians and gays) to do something that has no affect on anyone or anything else.

    In this country we have laws limiting the rights of the cruel to be cruel. This is in no way the same as the rights of bigots to be bigots to the detriment of others. If you are unable to understand that you are as cretinous as you accuse me of beiing. If you do understand that and still hold them to be the same, then your hypocrisy is no more than I would expect.

    YOU said “What I find amusing though is how the hard left bleat about its abuse in such cases as this…” I cannot find anything faintly amusing in the thought that people have been discriminated against and damaged in a case where democracy has chosen to do it, I wonder at your mindset

  25. The rights of a minority up for a vote of the majority. How democatic! Tyranny of the majority. What a disgrace America is with regards to it’s treatment of gays. To add further insult, President Obama said nothing about this issue in Maine. His opposition to this vote would certainly have helped defeat this hateful measure. But why would “our fierce advocate” in the White House want to risk offending the likes of his dear bud, the anti gay bigot “christian” Reverend Rick Warren. A post suggested gay Americans move. If my partner and I could, we would. It’s not that easy. Those of you that live in progressive countries such as Britain and Canada are fortunate that your rights aren’t put up for vote. I am so ashamed to live in America. And saddened that my President and his party (to whom this cash cow has now ceased giving $$) have no back bone and believe that I (and tens of thousands of other citizens) don’t merit equal rights.

  26. PlainJane 4 Nov 2009, 3:18pm

    With yet another defeat of gay marriage in the US, isn’t it now time for the LGBT rights movement in the States to get more pragmatic? Yes, it’s horrible that Maine voted against gay marriage (albeit by a pretty narrow margin) but look at Washington State – much great support for same-sex couples to have equal rights, just not through calling it marriage.

    What is more important here? The ability to call your partner your husband or wife or the access to the many, many rights that marriage confers? Surely now is the time to turn up the heat on getting some strong federal recognition of same-sex partnerships on the statute books.

    I’m in England and in a civil partnership. Most people here seem to consider me married, in fact the ones who make the disctinction between marriage and civil partnership are other gay folks. My civil partnership gave me the right to sponsor my US partner to live in this country (a favour she can’t return to me in the States). It means that I am her legal next of kin, and she is mine. We have the same rights as every heterosexual married couple, with the exception that we could not have a religious ceremony as part of our ‘wedding’. Frankly, that doesn’t bother me that much.

    Longer term I’m sure we will see ‘marriage’ being a sexual orientation-neutral term. The US population at least is obviously not ready for this yet. This doesn’t mean that we should wait for equal rights. If the HRC and other powerful LGBT groups in the States would just start lobbying for partnerships which would give equality, rather than getting hung up on the word marriage, we might actually get some.

  27. The land of the free, where all men are equal…

    Anyone else remember a time when that’s what America stood for?

  28. Har Davids 4 Nov 2009, 3:21pm

    Could racists have slavery brought back with a referendum?

  29. Actually PlainJane – no.

    Last night the conservatives won a battle. But even the most vehemntly anti-gay activists (Peter laBarbera, who wants to see homosexuality recriminalised for example) admits this.

    The anti-gay marriage lobby won by the thinnest of majorities. 10 years ago, Maine had barely granted rights to gay peole at all.

    Those who voted against hgay marriage are undoubtedly older, and it’s only a matter of time before the balance tips.

    Many conservative christians are angered by the Schubert campaign, which reminded voters we can all be tolerant and give gays the same rights without calling it marriage (Some states barely have any rights for LGBT people).

  30. vulpus_rex 4 Nov 2009, 3:30pm

    Mihangel – are you really this dense?

    In lots of nice easy words for you:

    There is a phenomenon known as the tyrrany of democracy.

    This has the effect that sometimes the rights of a minority get trampled on.

    This is not a good thing and no-where have I said thus.

    I find it amusing, though ironic is probably a better word, that some people are prepared to suffer that abuse when it suits their purposes.

    You have amply displayed the latter, and if you cannot see your own two faced hypocrisy then you shouldn’t really be lecturing others on their intelligence and your repeated attempts to twist the above are tragic.

  31. Mihangel apYrs 4 Nov 2009, 3:42pm

    if you can’t see the difference between between a majority stopping people doing something that harms nothing with stopping someome from doing something that does it is obvious that dicussing it with you is pointless.

    Your easy conflation of the right to be cruel with the right to marry suggests that your insensitivity of other living things puts you well and truly in the “unspeakable” category. There are times when a majority decision is the ethical one: if you are incapable of discerning the difference then I suggstive a period of reflection and silence on your part would be welcome

  32. Will:”What Maine and California have engaged in is the imposition of the discriminatory beliefs of the majority on the minority, this is not democracy as its is understood to be. ”

    Indeed. I also wonder how religion is allowed to poke its nose into legal matters when, as I understood it, there’s a separation of church and state in the US.

  33. vulpus_rex 4 Nov 2009, 4:06pm

    As I said Mihangel – narrow, small minded dismissal of something 1 million people marched through London to defend is nice and convenient when it suits you.

    Can I encourage you to practice what you preach and reflect upon your own dishonest confusion of principles. Hypocrite.

  34. Why does every topic i care to comment on always have an argument between vulpus_rex and someone else?

    In regards to Maine, gay people come to the UK, they will let anyone in here, terrorists, murderers etc
    As long as you aren’t a politician making naughty films you can get benefits and a council house here

  35. Rev JD Spears 4 Nov 2009, 4:38pm

    Torn between anger and grief I do not know how to properly respond. Many have argued that Gay Rights are not Civil Rights, merely on the basis of skin color, are practicing a form of prejudice that is not American, or perhaps it is? After all history does show that America has nearly always discriminated based not or reason, or fact, or the Constitution but one pure unadulterated hate.

    Although I am hoped that reason, fact, or Constitutional law would have prevailed in Maine, it seems that is not to be the case. Deep grief, much anger, and an overwhilming sense of befuddlement is the state of my being today.

  36. Mihangel apYrs 4 Nov 2009, 4:45pm

    thank you for that Vulpus: your inability to reccognise that certain activities should be banned for rational reasons suggests that I am wasting my time, but one last time:

    are there times when an activity should be banned, either by govt decision or by popular acclaim? Yes or no?

    If yes, then you are the hypocrite since you have supported that position from the start. If no, then give me your opinion of the rights of a parant to permit the genital mutilation of a daughter, and the right of the majority to want it banned on the rational ground of harm to an individual. I happen to consider the pointless distruction of an animal for fun to be an equivalent – no consent possible. However, much as I detest boxing, I would not expect it to be banned because the majority so wished, because the participants can give informed consent.

    Please try to see the difference.

  37. I see that the semi-literate Vulgus is at it again. He seems unable to control his animosity and vulgarity!

  38. “Indeed. I also wonder how religion is allowed to poke its nose into legal matters when, as I understood it, there’s a separation of church and state in the US.”

    Well said Iris… doesn’t seem that separate at the end of the day…. lets face it, their last president had full blown conversations with god every morning (by his on admission) and helped him make up his mind about policy. WTF? Anyone else would get admitted to a day release clinic for help with a mental illness!

    You got to hand it to the French, at least they got that church/state separation bit right.

  39. @ Steve [Comment #2] why do the hard core religious hate us so much?
    Every organisation down through History has felt the need for an ‘enemy’ for a variety of reasons – to somehow justify their position, to retain dominance over their followers, to keep the rank and file membership in order (nothing like an external threat to promote obedience to the leadership) and of course to divert attention away from what they really are all about.
    The Nazis did it with horrifying effect in the 1930s and 1940s and used the Jews as the ‘great enemy’, some Churches, now that they no longer have the ‘bogey man’ of Communism as the enemy, have picked Gays as the ‘great enemy’ in the early 21st century.
    Far easier to drum up hysteria against Gays than it is to look at themselves and how they have so pathetically failed to live up to the basics of what they preach. Easier to bash Gays than to look at such matters as child abuse by clergy and its cover-up by bishops and archbishops.

    Like the Nazis in the 1940s … the religious right wing WILL ultimately fail!!!!!!

  40. A sad day.

    To all those people who think that religion is automatically homophobic: you are completely wrong. Unitarians, Pagans, Quakers and many other people of religion support LGBT equality and same-sex marriage, and actively campaign for LGBT rights.

  41. Oh and I forgot to mention the Metropolitan Community Church, run by and for LGBTs.

    And then there’s all the LGBT religious organisations: Soulforce, the Radical Faeries, the Minoan Brotherhood, the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence….

    Try not to alienate your allies.

  42. ‘You got to hand it to the French, at least they got that church/state separation bit right.’

    You said it. Freedoms in the US is all rhetoric. America has a long way to go to catch up on Europe when it comes to civil rights, unfortunately.

    And Iris, I think its because religious are losing so much of their power in Europe. A dying animal is a dangerous animal.

  43. “Try not to alienate your allies.”

    Yewtree, I totally agree with you, not all religious are the same. But when it comes to state affairs, it needs to be religious free, and for the benefit of all its citizens. Belief, after all, is a personal thing.

  44. People!! Alesha is American so cut her a break…they aren’t known for their brains. Sorry to any American who has one. Seems the only Americans with brains and definately heart are gay ones and their allies. Everyone else just festers in their crappy health care and education and self-loathing. SO how can they care about other people’s happiness when they dont have any. And “str8” people who bash on here are just little faggots and dykes who crawl out of their closets to poke at real gay men and lesbians cause they just cant deal with being who they are. Well at least Maine is just one more place I would never spend my vacation dollars. Collectively I wonder how much money Maine will lose when we all stop going there….. hmmmmm

  45. vulpus_rex 4 Nov 2009, 5:29pm

    Neville – either join in with an opinion on the subject up for discussion or p**S off you old fool.

    Mirhangel – again, (nice and slowly) I haven’t particularly argued strongly one way or the other for banning things, I merely pointed out that sometimes that happens in a democracy and that sometimes, rightly or wrongly, that trumps a particular minority’s position.

    Fox hunting is a contentious issue that I did, and still maitain was banned because a bullying, left wing government chose to overlook the arguments of one particular minority, not on the grounds of cruelty or otherwise, but out of spite.

    I.e. They resorted to an abuse of democracy for unprincipled reasons.

    The cruelty or otherwise of fox hunting is not the issue – it could have been knitting and I would have made the same point.

    The rest of what you say is irrelevant as by now it must be clear even to you that at no point am I suggesting that the holocaust or FGM is acceptable if enough people think it a good idea.

  46. Why the hell are you crapping on about fox hunting? Give it a rest and grow up.

  47. vulpus_rex 4 Nov 2009, 5:44pm

    Because it became part of a discussion, the same way you started crapping on about religion.

    Now as I said to Neville, make a sensible contribution or p**s off.

  48. I will when you will, you bitter halfwit. Same old vulpus_rex, same old anger, same old attack in lieu of anything rational. Pathetic.

    How does it feel to be disliked by so many in here? You and RobN should become friends, he a lonely right wing moron like yourself.

  49. Dear, dear, poor old Vulgus Regina could certainly do with a book on English Grammar. He might be able to find a copy of ‘Teach
    Yourself English Grammar’ which was published some years ago. He clearly does not know the difference between the infinitive ‘to practise’ and the noun ‘practice’. There are many books on manners and etiquette which he might, possibly, benefit from perusing!
    His ignorant comments about democracy and the will of the majority are far too puerile to consider.

  50. Mihangel apYrs 4 Nov 2009, 7:30pm

    V-R and I are having a debate (that occasionally turns to invective because we differ strongly on some points. But that;s what it is: debate. He is adamantly tory (and libertarian I think) while I am somewhere on the liberal left. Any insults he’s thrown are at me, as are anything I’ve given back are meant for him.

    The gay community (I said that to infuriate RobN) has both ends of the political spectrum: all we have in common are our sexual orientation and the need to ensure that any benefits society has we partake of. Anything else in politics etc is individual.

  51. Well Mihangel apYrs, I do agree, but that twit likes to utter playground level insults like “Now as I said to Neville, make a sensible contribution or p**s off” by way of a “debate”. We’ve all seen it before from him.

    While he’s entitled to say what he wants, he’s not entitled to get away without out reproach for his silliness and 5th grade petty attacks. Free speech is not freedom from consequence of saying stupid things.

  52. Vo Dong Cung 4 Nov 2009, 9:04pm

    Roman Catholic want girl marry with gay, boy marry with lesbian, Hahaha….the funny thing forever….hahaha….

    Let see, soon black American will be baned from Presidental candidate, and they are “free” to be slaves again. The non-democracy under the fake-democratic umbrella.

    And then Pope Benedict XVI continues to freely kill millions, millions unborn babes. The recent holocaust created by Roman Catholic Church….their hands never clean from human blood. I see human beeing created by Satan,that they call the kind of “unseen God”. I dare with Pope Benedict about to prove the existing of “Loving God” as they used to said for money to cover up Roman Catholic Church’s child sex crimes.

  53. vulpus_wrecks another thread 4 Nov 2009, 9:41pm

    Like everything else bad in the universe, this decision in Maine is all the fault of McBroon and NuLiebour and I was right (not at all shockingly disrespectful to the poor Americans who have just had their rights ripped away from them) when I tried to introduce a brilliant, original, incredibly witty and not at all predictable Conservative party political point equating fox hunting with gay marriage because, as we all know, the fox, like LGBT people, consents to being hunted in exactly the same way as LGBT people consent to marrying each other. There! You see, it’s the same! You’re all just too stupid and too lefty-liberal to see the outstanding Daily Mail style subtlety and sheer original genius of the deep thoughts I post.

    Now, why don’t you f… off because, basically, that’s all I have to say.

  54. “Now, why don’t you f… off because, basically, that’s all I have to say.”

    Stunning level of intelligence here, simply stunning. Brava! Did you bang that out on the keyboard with your face?

    Come back when you have something of any intelligence to say, that last post was like some hormonal teenager having a hissy fit. I told you, go talk to RobN, he’s a right wing muppet too and who shares your level of vitriol and waffle. You’ll have loads in common, he’s petty desperate too, it seems. You can play pass the swastika until you fall into each others arms.


  55. “Comment by vulpus_wrecks another thread”

    Do we have to guess who you are? ;)

    Back to the matter – is there NO way this can be challenged in the Supreme Court or something? So anyone can introduce a vote like this and no matter how unfair it is, if enough people vote for it it’ll happen?

  56. Jen Marcus 4 Nov 2009, 11:39pm

    “To all those people who think that religion is automatically homophobic: you are completely wrong. Unitarians, Pagans, Quakers and many other people of religion support LGBT equality and same-sex marriage, and actively campaign for LGBT rights.
    Oh and I forgot to mention the Metropolitan Community Church, run by and for LGBTs.

    And then there’s all the LGBT religious organizations: Soulforce, the Radical Faeries, the Minoan Brotherhood, the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence….’
    Try not to alienate your allies. ”

    Right, I’m sorry Yewtree, but these religious organizations and people who are our allies and I am a member and advocate of some of them amount to and comprise a very small minority especially pitted against the likes of the Unholy Roman Catholic Church, the Baptists, Mormons,evangelicals etc.I also know that their interpretations of scripture and dogmas are considered erroneous in the view of the “unholy and ungodly majority.” Point of fact, if these folks, our allies, knew and studied the true origins of faith in God, their scriptures and the history of Christianity and other faith systems, I wonder how many would remain faithful to their religions or even their belief and faith in a God? The point is, as long as there remains a modicum of belief in these so called contradictory and metaphoric “Holy Books” you will have ignorant people using it to justify, oppress, enslave and do violence to others. From a historical standpoint stemming from twisted religious beliefs.and books please recall inhumane practices like : Racism, Slavery, Misogyny, Torture, Genocide, War, etc., etc., in the name of God?

    No, truth and science must overshadow magical thinking and human existential angst otherwise this needless human suffering and evil will continue and a true Loving God will surely continue to cry because of Her Children’s ignorance and evil practices!

  57. Mihangel apYrs 5 Nov 2009, 12:13am

    King Wolf

    chuck your grenades into the mix to stop us being complaisant. It is only by argument that we can find an answer


  58. Eagle the militant American Indian-Jew 5 Nov 2009, 12:25am

    The Hitteon Faith not only perform same sex marriages, but their faith teaches that gays in which they call “paruh” are special chosen people by God and anyone who does not accept this dogma are evil and against God. The Hitteon faith is over 5000 years old and is still practiced today. They believe that the Catholic pope is the Beast and the Christian religion the Beast Religion. I believe that too, that Christianity and Islam are the evil religions that have set about to destroy the earth and enslave men’s (and women’s) minds and their main goal is to set up a world wide One World Order system. Both of these religions have their roots in everything evil. Religion has no business in national or state politics and anyone taking away the rights of one group are taking away the rights of everyone. The Blacks and the Jews will be next. Eventually they will deny the right of Jews and Blacks from marrying. Each time a religion takes the rights away from some one, they quote from their holy (or holely) books as if a mere piece of fictional crap is suppose to influence and rule over the masses. When a work of fiction takes away the rights and freedom of any one group, then its time to start burning these books and wiping out all trace of them.
    It seems the minds of the voters in Maine have slipped back to the Middle Ages. The right to marry should be granted to every citizen everywhere and not chosen by a bunch of religious extremist who are no better than the men who flew airplanes into the World Trade Center buildings and such people should be labeled domestic terrorists and shipped off to Cuba and made to face a military court on charges of treason, then taken out to face a firing squad as the world would be better off these misfits of society were removed once and for all.

  59. I agree that not all Christians should be branded with the brush of homophobia. Many of those which aren’t have been mentioned above. However there are sadly many gay Christians who are prepared to support their evil churches notwithstanding their attitude to gay people. Examples are gay Catholics. these people should be treated with contempt.

  60. Reason HAS PREVAILED in Maine!

  61. I can’t really offer u guys in the UK an explanation for my countrymen because I am baffled, disgusted and dismayed by them constantly…we have a lot of haters here apparently….per the advice of a few on this thread where is a sane place to imigrate from the NO everyone doesn’t deserve to have healthcare-homos are less than everyone else-violence is awsome-greed is awsome -United States…can’t seem to change this lot so I am tired of it and want to go!

  62. Alesha -REASON has nothing to do with it….dumbassness yes…sorry guys shouldn’t feed into it but Alesha is yet another example of why there should be selective breeding….evolution entirely missed there!

  63. Jen Marcus 5 Nov 2009, 3:23am

    And I suspect you , Alesha, are clearly insane by making such an inhumane and idiotic statement “Get a Life.. you are a tool of the power mysogenic establishment.

  64. Many heterosexuals ‘hate’ homosexuals. Religion hates homosexuals. The ‘as usual’ absurb American way of doing things politically allows religious groups of ‘hate’, to gather signatures and then challenge the legislation of the socalled elected representatives of the people. So virtually you have ‘mob rule’ in the United States. Why bother to have elected Governments. Give a heterosexual a ballot paper to make a judgment about any issue to do with homosexuality and you will have a big chance of a vote against. My partner and I know many heterosexuals but I wouldnt trust too many of them to vote for gay rights in the voting situation. Most straights are nice to your face but not behind your back. Hetero sapiens is the dominant species on the planet not for being ‘nice’ Just take a look at the mass extictions that are taking place at this very moment. We need to get as many of ‘our’ people elected to Parliaments and in positons of power as per possible. We need to be monied, educated and influential. That is how we can challenge the power of the Religions which dominate and destroy the lives of millions of our brothers and sisters around the world.

  65. Aussie Gay Activist Paul Mitchell 5 Nov 2009, 5:41am

    They don’t call it a “people’s veto” for nothing!!!!!!!

    Both California and Maine just show (by both votes and ballots by citizens) how deeply divided opinions are on gay marriage!!!!!

    Both California and Maine were only slightly 52 percent.

    I did predict that Maine will not get gay marriage. I said it before and I will say it again “If people had every chance to vote at the ballot they will come out in record numbers and vote people’s rights away!!!!”

    I am glad that the sexual orientation and gender idenity Ordinance was voted by a large majority in Michigan (forget the name of the city starts with K).

    And not forgetting Washington State (not DC) – numbers still counting ballots but it looks good [so far 50.9 percent APPROVED stage 3 domestic partnerships].

    In Washington DC The Human Rights Act 1977 does not allow ballots on minority issues – so DC will legalize gay marriage very soon in 2010. However having said that Congress might veto it under the 30 day review period (after the Mayor signs gay marriage into law).

  66. Aussie Gay Activist Paul Mitchell 5 Nov 2009, 5:44am

    [After I am glad that the sexual orientation and gender idenity Ordinance was voted] – add; “APPROVED”

  67. Chris(tine) 5 Nov 2009, 9:42am

    First, I think this was a very sad vote, second, I am sorry for my English, I don’t have this English Grammar here you need to describe correctly what you want to express, but I try to write my thoughts down here:
    As a young gay man’s mother I had to realize and learn about the problems with missing equality (here in Germany and all over the world). I lived in a “heterosexual world” before that and did not notice the problems, although I had gay and lesbian friends and co-workers. I knew and accepted their loved ones as their lifetime partners as I knew and accepted the heterosexual partners of all my other friends. But we never talked about gay marriage. So it never came into my own mind. Realizing one of my sons was gay I suddenly opened my eyes for all these problems you boys and girls have to fight with. I am very sorry but I really didn’t realize the inequality before. Now I feel it.
    I think that one big problem is that talking about sexuality and sexual acts is still a big taboo. And if (silly) people hear about “gay” marriage they don’t realize that this an item of equal rights, but only see the homosexual act in their mind. Seeing this “act” in mind is very strange for them (as a heterosexual man or woman you are not very often confronted with these thoughts). And so they say: No, this cannot be right, because I don’ t know it. Very simple :( And many Churches and religions also say: “No, no, Dear God (seems to be a heterosexual and he) can’t appreciate gay sex, neither gay marriage.” And then the heterosexual world system is cemented.
    So the fight for equality must be combined with information and education. And you must be aware that many persons live with (perhaps unconscious) taboos in their heads, that don’t allow them to see the real injustice and inequality. Realizing your struggle for justice and equality seems to be a mind problem for those who are not involved. This may sound naive but, I think you have to explain your problems clearly to all the narrow minded who only see the homosexual act and not the problems of injustice and inequality. Then they should understand.
    Fight for your rights!

  68. Quite right, Chris(tine). Ignorance isn’t necessarily malice. But sometimes it’s hard to educate those who won’t open their minds. For some people (SOME) religion makes them close their minds.

    Also, the reason the ‘act’ as you phrase it is in people’s minds is partly because that’s what religion focusses on. It has to. The idea that people can LOVE people of the same sex is one that the religious leaders that are bigots (and I accept not all of them are) like to keep quiet. Love binds us together, but the bigots rely on our ‘difference’ to ostracise us and discriminate against us.

    I’d like to see every single person who voted against gay marriage to explain exactly WHY and in detail. They won’t because there’s no logical argument against it.

  69. vulpus_rex 5 Nov 2009, 10:35am

    My, My I see the usual suspects have spent their evening pouring out invective.

    I am particularly pleased to see that as well as a stalker (Nev) I now how have an impersonator.

    Can I reserve a special thanks though to Will who thinks he is the moderator and it is by his standards of juvenile “What are you crapping on about….” style of contribution that you must be judged.

    @55 very special – too thick to see that you were commenting on a thrid party parody, and I love the bullying!

  70. “Can I reserve a special thanks though to Will who thinks he is the moderator”

    Oh, god no. But you’re welcome. I just think you’re a utter moron. That’s all, nothing special really. Most of us do. I’m sure you find it common enough in your day to day life.

  71. vulpus_rex 5 Nov 2009, 3:52pm

    “I just think you’re a utter moron.”

    More bullying – it’s almost hilarious that the most abusive, disrespectful, hate filled person who comments in here can’t see what a foul mouthed bully he is. To be fair though, I think you’re an utter moron too so I guess that makes us equal.

  72. Yawn. Oh, boo f-king hoo, you’re such a victim now, are you? The sweet little darling who never says anything bad, that’s you alright! Please. Anyway, its not bullying if its true, is it? You are a moron. And a hypocrite. And I’m not the only one who thinks that. Load of people do. Ergo, you are a moron.

    And you need a mirror if you want to see an offensive and disrespectful person.

    Well done on the high drama though.

  73. Robert, ex pat Brit 5 Nov 2009, 4:51pm

    PlainJane…you don’t see the larger picture or able to think outside the box on this one. Civil partnerships, civil unions, domestic partnerships, whatever form of other union outside marriage will NEVER be universal. Just because society often regards your partnership as a marriage, in reality its not. There is no law written otherwise to reflect that. If they were equal to marriage, why call them something different?

    Why do you think more countries are abandoning these unions in favour of marriage? Don’t forget, straight governments legislated for it, not gays. Marriage will always far outnumber civil partnerships and their other equivalents, why would you want to settle for something that is on the decline? Do you really think that civil partnerships as good as they currently are in conferring most of the rights (not all) of marriage, in the absence of nothing at all, are going to be the norm across Europe? Its delusional to even think so and so very insular. We now have five countries in Europe allowing us to marry, a trend that will grow, albeit slowly. Marriage will be inevitable, mark my words, whether you like it or not. Just because two states in America have had legislation overturned, don’t think for a moment its the end, its just the beginning of the tide turning in our favor. For every loss there will be gains. Not every state in America has initiative/referenda ballots to take away peoples’ rights. There are more than 20 that don’t, New York state where I currently reside being one of them and where marriage equality has been passed by the state assembly on two occasions, now awaiting an up and down vote to make it the law of the state, maybe as soon as November 10, hopefully. We’re not giving up. Out of every defeat we will triumph in the end.

  74. “New York state where I currently reside being one of them and where marriage equality has been passed by the state assembly on two occasions, now awaiting an up and down vote to make it the law of the state, maybe as soon as November 10, hopefully.”

    Robert, does this mean marriage will be legal for gay/lesbian people in NY State soon?

  75. Alesha you dumb bitch, are you a closet case or do you always read the gay news?
    We will have the last laugh, frankly i don’t want to get married but i want the right and eventually we all will

    How can you win in a world where religion is declining faster than the popes intelligence?

  76. Vulpus: Don’t worry, Will thinks he’s running the show, and that we are all morons. Bit like this government, really.

  77. vulpus_rex 6 Nov 2009, 1:51am

    Lol – thanks but don’t worry RobN – d*ckheads like Will don’t worry me – he’s such a tool.

  78. Well, what a surprise, the fascist and dull witted RobN jumps in to support vulpus_rex. And followed by another playground insult from our enlightened one, made all the more intelligent by that “lol”. Beautiful.

    Who didn’t see that coming.

  79. Vo Dong Cung 10 Nov 2009, 7:29pm

    VIVA MAINE! Good news! (Alesha #7)

    To people around the world,
    From now on, any time US Goverment talking about democracy and freedom of religion, please show them the democracy and religion raping the constitution in California and Maine. This is the time to shut US Goverment mouth off.

  80. Vo Dong Cung 10 Nov 2009, 8:10pm

    “Religion hates homosexuals” (Breton #64)

    Religion do not hates homosexual, all we see they covered up their members for too long. But they are afraid of LGBT, afraid of showing their wrong doctrime in front of the world. So they try with all their effort, with all their devil thought to win. And they won. They won in turning public opinion away from their child sex raping to gay marriage. We see now, the media flooded with gay marriage news but not any of Catholic priest child abuse. And Vatican acepting CoE too. They try to make media busy on other topics.

    Why all gay web sites world wide do not have a place to remind the world, day after day, minute after minute, the Roman Catholic crimes as the web did.

    I am going to follow this web to remind our people stay away from Roman Catholic. Because, if not start right now, the other California, the other Maine will appear inside my country.

  81. 21stCenturySpirituality 11 Nov 2009, 5:30am

    This story is also being discussed on the Christian Institutes facebook page:

  82. Vo Dong Cung 11 Nov 2009, 11:36am

    Thank 21stCenturySpirituality, I registered to facebook but I can’t find some where to make comment.

  83. 21stCenturySpirituality 11 Nov 2009, 2:59pm

    Ah ha. I think you need to be logged into facebook first and then click on the link

  84. Vo Dong Cung 12 Nov 2009, 9:07pm

    I still unable to find some where to put the comment. Some friend show me…

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