Comments on: Labour minister welcomes rise in civil partnerships held at British consulates http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/30/mabour-minister-welcomes-rise-in-civil-partnerships-held-at-british-consulates/ PinkNews.co.uk Gay News (UK and world) from Pink News - all the gay news for the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered community in the UK and beyond- thegaynews from Pink News Sat, 13 Mar 2010 16:17:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Robert, ex pat Brit http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/30/mabour-minister-welcomes-rise-in-civil-partnerships-held-at-british-consulates/comment-page-1/#comment-80312 Robert, ex pat Brit Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:45:55 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=14758#comment-80312 Rose, reading Mihangel's response to me suggests that they're not equal to marriage and do not confer every benefit of marriage. Brian Burton....you're lucky that our government reads your certificate of civil partnership correctly. However, if you had legally married your partner in say Canada for example, you're "Certficate of Marriage" would not be recognised by our government for what it is once you stepped foot on British soil, but treated solely as a civil partnership which in reality it would not be, that's the difference and its not a question of semantics when the law does not state that CPs are marriage. The government have told us over and over, they are not. If you and your partner were to emigrate to Canada, Holland, Belgium, Spain, Norway, Sweden or South Africa, or to several states in the U.S., you're partnership would be construed as a civil union, not a marriage. Civil Partnerships or unions are by far outnumbered by full marriage equality, that trend will continue to grow, partnerships will decline. Rose, reading Mihangel's response to me suggests that they're not equal to marriage and do not confer every benefit of marriage.

Brian Burton….you're lucky that our government reads your certificate of civil partnership correctly. However, if you had legally married your partner in say Canada for example, you're "Certficate of Marriage" would not be recognised by our government for what it is once you stepped foot on British soil, but treated solely as a civil partnership which in reality it would not be, that's the difference and its not a question of semantics when the law does not state that CPs are marriage. The government have told us over and over, they are not. If you and your partner were to emigrate to Canada, Holland, Belgium, Spain, Norway, Sweden or South Africa, or to several states in the U.S., you're partnership would be construed as a civil union, not a marriage. Civil Partnerships or unions are by far outnumbered by full marriage equality, that trend will continue to grow, partnerships will decline.

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]]> By: Robert, ex pat Brit http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/30/mabour-minister-welcomes-rise-in-civil-partnerships-held-at-british-consulates/comment-page-1/#comment-80311 Robert, ex pat Brit Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:36:07 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=14758#comment-80311 Jock, provided one of the partners is a Brit, yes, you can enter into a partnership at a consulate abroad. Even before CPs were introduce, a British gay citizen could sponsor his foreign born partner into the UK, that law still remains in effect. Mihangel apYrs.....I suspected as much, another indicator of proof that they're not equal to marriage. Hasn't anyone brought that to the attention of the government? What's lazy-arsed StonewallUK doing about that? Nothing no doubt. Jock, provided one of the partners is a Brit, yes, you can enter into a partnership at a consulate abroad. Even before CPs were introduce, a British gay citizen could sponsor his foreign born partner into the UK, that law still remains in effect.

Mihangel apYrs…..I suspected as much, another indicator of proof that they're not equal to marriage. Hasn't anyone brought that to the attention of the government? What's lazy-arsed StonewallUK doing about that? Nothing no doubt.

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]]> By: Mihangel apYrs http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/30/mabour-minister-welcomes-rise-in-civil-partnerships-held-at-british-consulates/comment-page-1/#comment-80310 Mihangel apYrs Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:28:50 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=14758#comment-80310 One example I have for pensions: the first 11 years of my contributions for my partner are arbitrarily discounted by the provider (to te date when they would allow women to contribute for spouses' survivor pensions. I will get the money back when I retire (with a really small interst rate attached). If I divorced by partner and married a woman her survivor pension would include tha extra 11 years - just under a third more. THAT is the way CP differs from marriage in just one case. Others will slither out I'm sure One example I have for pensions: the first 11 years of my contributions for my partner are arbitrarily discounted by the provider (to te date when they would allow women to contribute for spouses' survivor pensions. I will get the money back when I retire (with a really small interst rate attached). If I divorced by partner and married a woman her survivor pension would include tha extra 11 years – just under a third more. THAT is the way CP differs from marriage in just one case. Others will slither out I'm sure

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]]> By: Rose http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/30/mabour-minister-welcomes-rise-in-civil-partnerships-held-at-british-consulates/comment-page-1/#comment-80283 Rose Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:46:04 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=14758#comment-80283 Call me naive, but I thought the point of a civil partnership was that it DID confer the same legal protection as marriage to partners without actually being marriage. Don't get me wrong, I hate the pettifogging distinction. i think it is ridiculous that a registry office door opens to het couples getting married and gay couples getting civily partnered with only a small difference in the form of words. There should be one form of civil marriage for all, and a serious move towards forcing the churches to allow weddings under their roofs. But until then, civil partnership SHOULD, surely, provide a legal protection for partners otherwise what the bloody hell is it for? Call me naive, but I thought the point of a civil partnership was that it DID confer the same legal protection as marriage to partners without actually being marriage. Don't get me wrong, I hate the pettifogging distinction. i think it is ridiculous that a registry office door opens to het couples getting married and gay couples getting civily partnered with only a small difference in the form of words. There should be one form of civil marriage for all, and a serious move towards forcing the churches to allow weddings under their roofs. But until then, civil partnership SHOULD, surely, provide a legal protection for partners otherwise what the bloody hell is it for?

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]]> By: Gino Meriano http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/30/mabour-minister-welcomes-rise-in-civil-partnerships-held-at-british-consulates/comment-page-1/#comment-80281 Gino Meriano Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:33:40 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=14758#comment-80281 in fact there are more, like Switzerland, Prague, Gran Canaria and not to mention some states of the US In addition only 3 will open up to non residents - the rest are for residents only thats why its important to highlight the embassy issue as it would open doors across the globe in fact there are more, like Switzerland, Prague, Gran Canaria and not to mention some states of the US

In addition only 3 will open up to non residents – the rest are for residents only thats why its important to highlight the embassy issue as it would open doors across the globe

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]]> By: Brian Burton http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/30/mabour-minister-welcomes-rise-in-civil-partnerships-held-at-british-consulates/comment-page-1/#comment-80241 Brian Burton Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:48:36 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=14758#comment-80241 Words, words, words! What a load of inane word jugglers you lot of Jug-heads are so far. My Civil Partnership is called on our Civil Partnership document from the Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marrages, Civil Partnership. It would be valid if my Partner and I had had our cerimony in any British Consulate or Embassy since they are all small pieces of Britain. Or don't any of you know that? Words, words, words! What a load of inane word jugglers you lot of Jug-heads are so far. My Civil Partnership is called on our Civil Partnership document from the Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marrages, Civil Partnership. It would be valid if my Partner and I had had our cerimony in any British Consulate or Embassy since they are all small pieces of Britain. Or don't any of you know that?

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]]> By: Jock http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/30/mabour-minister-welcomes-rise-in-civil-partnerships-held-at-british-consulates/comment-page-1/#comment-80226 Jock Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:58:01 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=14758#comment-80226 I have an interesting question. Does the immigration, right to reside and right to work in the UK extend to gay couples "married" in a British consulates abroad> Hypothetical scenario. Maggie (US citizen) and Liz (British citizen), in a long, stable, committed lesbian relationship (mayhap with children), enter into a Civil Partnership at a British consulate in the USA. Would Maggie (and any children) have the same rights as any het "married" couple to enter, work and reside in the UK? Can any learned "legals" out there riddle me this? I have an interesting question.
Does the immigration, right to reside and right to work in the UK extend to gay couples "married" in a British consulates abroad>

Hypothetical scenario.

Maggie (US citizen) and Liz (British citizen), in a long, stable, committed lesbian relationship (mayhap with children), enter into a Civil Partnership at a British consulate in the USA.

Would Maggie (and any children) have the same rights as any het "married" couple to enter, work and reside in the UK?

Can any learned "legals" out there riddle me this?

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]]> By: Robert, ex pat Brit http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/30/mabour-minister-welcomes-rise-in-civil-partnerships-held-at-british-consulates/comment-page-1/#comment-80213 Robert, ex pat Brit Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:22:53 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=14758#comment-80213 Mihangel apYrs...quite. Its extraordinary that some of the public and even politicians refer to them as "marriages", but they don't have the courage to recognise them as such, legally so. I think it has a lot to do with denial. I've heard of some inequalities in pensions. Can you explain what they are in regard to civil partnered and married couples? If they exist, then that's yet further proof they're not equal. Segregation hasn't worked in any society, not even in America. This is what civil partnerships really are. As I've say countless times before, if they were that equal they wouldn't be called civil partnerships but legal marriage. The sad part of it is, many think they've attained full equality with these partnerships that mimic marriage, the very thing that some gay people are against, including StonewallUK. Mihangel apYrs…quite. Its extraordinary that some of the public and even politicians refer to them as "marriages", but they don't have the courage to recognise them as such, legally so. I think it has a lot to do with denial.

I've heard of some inequalities in pensions. Can you explain what they are in regard to civil partnered and married couples? If they exist, then that's yet further proof they're not equal. Segregation hasn't worked in any society, not even in America. This is what civil partnerships really are. As I've say countless times before, if they were that equal they wouldn't be called civil partnerships but legal marriage. The sad part of it is, many think they've attained full equality with these partnerships that mimic marriage, the very thing that some gay people are against, including StonewallUK.

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]]> By: Mihangel apYrs http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/30/mabour-minister-welcomes-rise-in-civil-partnerships-held-at-british-consulates/comment-page-1/#comment-80188 Mihangel apYrs Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:14:53 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=14758#comment-80188 Robert they think that if they say it often enough Britons will believe them. Unfortunately beyond these shores they aren't recognised as anything legal. And we may yet find inequalities beyind the existing ones in pensions where opt outs are established Robert
they think that if they say it often enough Britons will believe them. Unfortunately beyond these shores they aren't recognised as anything legal.

And we may yet find inequalities beyind the existing ones in pensions where opt outs are established

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]]> By: Robert, ex pat Brit http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/30/mabour-minister-welcomes-rise-in-civil-partnerships-held-at-british-consulates/comment-page-1/#comment-80169 Robert, ex pat Brit Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:02:24 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=14758#comment-80169 Richard Angell needs to get his facts right. 7 countries have legislated for same-sex marriage, not 6. If he can't count, they are Holland, Belgium, Spain, Norway, Sweden, Canada and South Africa. He then states..."this will de-mystify same sex marriage to its opponents and provide hope for those struggle for LGBT equality across the globe." Same-sex marriage? Does he refer to civil partnerships as same-sex marriage? Where has he been living? Last time I checked, there is no legal provision in the UK for same-sex couples to marry, there is no law written to that effect, in fact, they're banned from doing so. Is he delusional or did I misread or misunderstand his statement. Richard Angell needs to get his facts right. 7 countries have legislated for same-sex marriage, not 6. If he can't count, they are Holland, Belgium, Spain, Norway, Sweden, Canada and South Africa.

He then states…"this will de-mystify same sex marriage to its opponents and provide hope for those struggle for LGBT equality across the globe."

Same-sex marriage? Does he refer to civil partnerships as same-sex marriage? Where has he been living? Last time I checked, there is no legal provision in the UK for same-sex couples to marry, there is no law written to that effect, in fact, they're banned from doing so. Is he delusional or did I misread or misunderstand his statement.

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