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Labour minister welcomes rise in civil partnerships held at British consulates

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  1. Robert, ex pat Brit 30 Oct 2009, 5:02pm

    Richard Angell needs to get his facts right. 7 countries have legislated for same-sex marriage, not 6. If he can’t count, they are Holland, Belgium, Spain, Norway, Sweden, Canada and South Africa.

    He then states…”this will de-mystify same sex marriage to its opponents and provide hope for those struggle for LGBT equality across the globe.”

    Same-sex marriage? Does he refer to civil partnerships as same-sex marriage? Where has he been living? Last time I checked, there is no legal provision in the UK for same-sex couples to marry, there is no law written to that effect, in fact, they’re banned from doing so. Is he delusional or did I misread or misunderstand his statement.

  2. Mihangel apYrs 30 Oct 2009, 6:14pm

    Robert
    they think that if they say it often enough Britons will believe them. Unfortunately beyond these shores they aren’t recognised as anything legal.

    And we may yet find inequalities beyind the existing ones in pensions where opt outs are established

  3. Robert, ex pat Brit 30 Oct 2009, 8:22pm

    Mihangel apYrs…quite. Its extraordinary that some of the public and even politicians refer to them as “marriages”, but they don’t have the courage to recognise them as such, legally so. I think it has a lot to do with denial.

    I’ve heard of some inequalities in pensions. Can you explain what they are in regard to civil partnered and married couples? If they exist, then that’s yet further proof they’re not equal. Segregation hasn’t worked in any society, not even in America. This is what civil partnerships really are. As I’ve say countless times before, if they were that equal they wouldn’t be called civil partnerships but legal marriage. The sad part of it is, many think they’ve attained full equality with these partnerships that mimic marriage, the very thing that some gay people are against, including StonewallUK.

  4. I have an interesting question.
    Does the immigration, right to reside and right to work in the UK extend to gay couples “married” in a British consulates abroad>

    Hypothetical scenario.

    Maggie (US citizen) and Liz (British citizen), in a long, stable, committed lesbian relationship (mayhap with children), enter into a Civil Partnership at a British consulate in the USA.

    Would Maggie (and any children) have the same rights as any het “married” couple to enter, work and reside in the UK?

    Can any learned “legals” out there riddle me this?

  5. Brian Burton 30 Oct 2009, 9:48pm

    Words, words, words! What a load of inane word jugglers you lot of Jug-heads are so far. My Civil Partnership is called on our Civil Partnership document from the Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marrages, Civil Partnership. It would be valid if my Partner and I had had our cerimony in any British Consulate or Embassy since they are all small pieces of Britain. Or don’t any of you know that?

  6. Gino Meriano 31 Oct 2009, 10:33am

    in fact there are more, like Switzerland, Prague, Gran Canaria and not to mention some states of the US

    In addition only 3 will open up to non residents – the rest are for residents only thats why its important to highlight the embassy issue as it would open doors across the globe

  7. Call me naive, but I thought the point of a civil partnership was that it DID confer the same legal protection as marriage to partners without actually being marriage. Don’t get me wrong, I hate the pettifogging distinction. i think it is ridiculous that a registry office door opens to het couples getting married and gay couples getting civily partnered with only a small difference in the form of words. There should be one form of civil marriage for all, and a serious move towards forcing the churches to allow weddings under their roofs. But until then, civil partnership SHOULD, surely, provide a legal protection for partners otherwise what the bloody hell is it for?

  8. Mihangel apYrs 31 Oct 2009, 7:28pm

    One example I have for pensions: the first 11 years of my contributions for my partner are arbitrarily discounted by the provider (to te date when they would allow women to contribute for spouses’ survivor pensions. I will get the money back when I retire (with a really small interst rate attached). If I divorced by partner and married a woman her survivor pension would include tha extra 11 years – just under a third more. THAT is the way CP differs from marriage in just one case. Others will slither out I’m sure

  9. Robert, ex pat Brit 31 Oct 2009, 7:36pm

    Jock, provided one of the partners is a Brit, yes, you can enter into a partnership at a consulate abroad. Even before CPs were introduce, a British gay citizen could sponsor his foreign born partner into the UK, that law still remains in effect.

    Mihangel apYrs…..I suspected as much, another indicator of proof that they’re not equal to marriage. Hasn’t anyone brought that to the attention of the government? What’s lazy-arsed StonewallUK doing about that? Nothing no doubt.

  10. Robert, ex pat Brit 31 Oct 2009, 7:45pm

    Rose, reading Mihangel’s response to me suggests that they’re not equal to marriage and do not confer every benefit of marriage.

    Brian Burton….you’re lucky that our government reads your certificate of civil partnership correctly. However, if you had legally married your partner in say Canada for example, you’re “Certficate of Marriage” would not be recognised by our government for what it is once you stepped foot on British soil, but treated solely as a civil partnership which in reality it would not be, that’s the difference and its not a question of semantics when the law does not state that CPs are marriage. The government have told us over and over, they are not. If you and your partner were to emigrate to Canada, Holland, Belgium, Spain, Norway, Sweden or South Africa, or to several states in the U.S., you’re partnership would be construed as a civil union, not a marriage. Civil Partnerships or unions are by far outnumbered by full marriage equality, that trend will continue to grow, partnerships will decline.

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