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Ian McKellen on being a second-class citizen

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  1. sorry ian, your still a second class citizen and still cannot get married.

  2. Robert, ex pat Brit 29 Oct 2009, 1:30pm

    Xaria, exactly. Lets see what the next tory government will do about that, don’t hold your breath either, they’re not that progressive, just like their labour counterparts.

  3. Ian . . . you are still a second class citizen

    1. You still cannot get married
    2. You had to change you Lancasterian accent to fit in.
    3. You still cannot donate your blood to help others

    You are still second class

  4. Simon Murphy 29 Oct 2009, 2:20pm

    Ian – separate but equal is still not equal. You are still a second class citizen.

  5. “Oh, poor, poor me.”

    I have never seen myself as that. My sexuality is just one small facet of my life. Most of my straight friends are jealous of me, I don’t have a wife and screaming brats to support, I don’t have to haemorrhage money at Christmas and birthdays, I can go on holiday when I want, and I’ve had WAY more sex than any straight man I know. I’m sure you can think of many more too.

    Yeah, we have our problems, I don’t deny it, but sometimes people,(both gay and straight), ought to recognise we ARE different, and celebrate the fact rather than constantly bemoaning our lot.

  6. Simon Murphy 29 Oct 2009, 3:31pm

    It is not ‘bemoaning our lot’ to point out that as gay people we not have equality under the law.

    It is simply a statement of fact.

    I pay my tax, I obey the law. Because I am gay I am not allowed access to the legal contract of marriage. It is not moaning to point that out.

    Whether or not I personally want to get married, or adopt children or work in a religious organisation is irrelevant.

    But Rob – your purpose on here seems to get offended by whatever anyone says or whatever story is being discussed. You’re similar to the Daily Mail that way. You’re professionallty ‘disgusted’.

  7. Simon Murphy 29 Oct 2009, 3:40pm

    And Rob – well done you for having a good life. Surely you’re not arrogant enough to think that your satisfaction with your own quality of life should be the standard by which everyone judges themselves?

    Or is it that you simply enjoy being aggressive, unpleasant and confrontational, when there really is no need to be?

  8. vulpus_rex 29 Oct 2009, 4:22pm

    I don’t wish to be a pedant but to all those moaning about inequality:

    1) Like any straight man I can marry any woman I chose
    2) Like any gay man a straight man may enter into a civil partnership with another man.

    A straight man can’t marry another man as far as I am aware so where’s the inequality?

  9. Brian Burton 29 Oct 2009, 5:29pm

    You are all a damn lot of MOANING MINIS and Simon Murphy the atheiest whacho is the biggest. Get a life you ‘Prissy Pricillas.’

  10. vulpus_rex, the “gays already have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex” argument is just stupid.

    This same argument was used in the US to defend laws banning interracial marriage. The common view was that anti-miscegenation laws don’t violate the equal protection clause of the constitution because they applied “equally” to everyone: a white man can marry any white woman of his choice and black man can do the same with any black woman. No-one has the right to marry someone of a different race so where’s the inequality?

    The right to marry the person of your choice is a fundamental human right. The ‘inequality’ is that straight people can marry the person they love and gay people can’t. Giving us some second-class marriage substitute doesn’t suffice.

  11. Simon Murphy 29 Oct 2009, 6:43pm

    No 8: Vulpy:

    “1) Like any straight man I can marry any woman I chose
    2) Like any gay man a straight man may enter into a civil partnership with another man.”

    Both true, but:

    3. A gay person cannot marry another person of the same sex.
    4. A straight person cannot enter a civil partnership with someone of the opposite sex.

  12. Good actor I liked it when he played the Frankenstein director the bride of Frankenstein.
    I tracked down the website and all he seems to boast about is Lord of the rings.
    When he played the character the director of bride of Frankenstein, I felt very sorry for

    him. Most films I just a little bit silly grown-up men playing children’s games but

    sometimes you can forget yourself and enjoy a good film.

    At the moment I’m under a great deal of stress with the local council
    asking me a million questions to try to cover up for their wrongdoings.
    I watched his film again.

    Physically I have always been able to take care of myself but when the
    establishment turned against you or seem to you do realise suddenly that
    you are a second-class citizen you are tolerated rather than accepted.

    “My friends friends is a homosexual they are harmless really”
    most of you are just that gay person from number blah blah blah.
    You are not Philip David Terry Johnny and so on you that gay person
    from number blah blah blah.

    Your sexuality is not a small part of your life it is your life. The person
    you love is not of the “norm” the people you walk past and find attractive
    is not what they find attractive.

    When you’re working out in the gym you are trying to look attractive to your own sex.
    Your sexuality is not a small part of your life it is your life. It is part of your
    conversations it is your lifestyle.

    Blah blah blah and blah blah blah.

    My eyesight is slightly damaged does anybody know a good quality text-to-speech program?
    He wants somebody to Love but he is an abomination.
    Dictionaries definition “something that you dislike and disapprove.”

    Gods and Monsters (1998)
    The Father of Frankenstein (USA) (working title)

  13. RobN says “My sexuality is just one small facet of my life” yet he’s prowling around these boards night noon and bloody day!

  14. Paddy: I don’t do this because of my sexuality. I just like a good row! lol.

    Simon: I’m not offended generally, I just think in a lot of cases it’s worth playing Devil’s advocate in the hope that people might see the other side of the argument instead of following the ‘party line’ all the time. You might notice I do actually go with the common consensus from time to time, and where in my comment was I being in your words “aggressive, unpleasant and confrontational”? – I thought I was the one trying to show the optimistic outlook in that comment.

    Some peoples glasses are half full, others see theirs half empty. In Simon Murphy’s case, somebody’s nicked his f_cking pint.

  15. Vincent Poffley 30 Oct 2009, 12:01am

    Ah yes, the old “there’s no inequality, because gay men can still marry a woman” canard. I’ve yet to meet anyone who really, seriously thinks that’s a reasonable argument.

    It would be like imposing a law that everyone must write with their right hand. There’s no discrimination there, surely, because all the dextrals are forbidden from using their left hands as well! Or how about imposing a ban on wheelchairs. That doesn’t discriminate against the disabled, because able-bodied people can’t use a wheelchair either! See, perfectly equal!

  16. Vincent Poffley 30 Oct 2009, 12:09am

    But, even though gay people are still second-class citizens (thanks to marriage apartheid, the blood ban, and lingering cultural homophobia), it is somewhat insulting to compare the discrimination most of us face today with that suffered by people such as Sir Ian forty years ago. That’s no reason for complacency, ye gods no, but by any measure things have improved massively.

    In my opinion Sir Ian is right on the money about the psychological damage that past discrimination has wrought. I grew up under the nasty auspices of Section 28, and my confidence, self-esteem and sense of worth suffered terribly from a mere silence on gay issues. I can only dimly begin to perceive how horrendous it must have been when homosexuality was both illegal and reviled.

  17. Lucius Malfoy 30 Oct 2009, 1:12am

    I can see what Ian means. It would have been really horrible to be gay when he was growing up. Things are much better now, but unlike any devil’s advocate would say, we’re still second class citizens under the law, which is one (of many) reasons I moved from my native USA to Sweden. I’m not going to pay taxes and be expected to enjoy being a second-class citizen at the same time.

  18. Of course, a man could not dream of having a husband! Men have wives, and wives, husbands. That’s a Straight relationship, which is different from a gay one, because the sexes involved are different!

  19. I know what Ian is saying but I have to add I think it is wonderful to watch the confidence and the progress of young lesbians and gays. Our coming out in the 60s and 70s was extremely fraught with danger, loss of jobs, difficulty in letting homes ect ect ect. But we compensated with lots of fantastic sex and usually when the rest of the world was asleep. So to watch the progress towards full acceptance to what we were born as is just fine by me.I think the future will be fraught in ways we have not imagined yet so the more confident we are with who we are the better.

  20. Vincent, People from South Africa know what apartheid is. You don’t seem to.

  21. Vincent Poffley 30 Oct 2009, 1:32pm

    Apartheid. Noun. Meaning “separateness” in Afrikaans. A system whereby people are divided into separate groups and treated differently based on arbitrarily decided criteria. The hallmark of Apartheid is the idea that people should be “separate but equal”, which of course never results in true equality.

    The situation with gay people being given their own patronising “separate but equal” version of marriage qualifies absolutely. It is not the same thing. It is not equal, culturally or legally. It is apartheid pure and simple.

    I think it is you who does not understand what apartheid is.

  22. Brian Burton 30 Oct 2009, 3:37pm

    You wailing whachos VP etcetera you dont know your born yet you sreaming Jackasses! My Civil Partnership makes me equal to anyone so stuff your wailing, washout thoughts and put masking tape across your mouthes.

  23. are you for real Brian? when has separate ever been equal?

  24. Anita Greencard 30 Oct 2009, 4:50pm

    Jews in Europe?… you choose your religion. You don’t choose to be gay, you choose to be honest with your life.
    The western world is getting to be a much better place for gays. Sadly most immigrants don’t hold our values from third world countries and bring them “here”. We have to be aware that most countries don’t value EQUALNESS… and that’s all gays have asked for. Nothing more nothing less.
    To be a gay you don’t have circumcise your baby boy, have 8 wifes, wear a turbine, etc.
    Gays are inclusive.

  25. Anita, I’d love to see you wearing a turbine, it would ‘generate’ a lot of comment!
    I was 17 when homosexuality was partially legalised in the UK, but for many many years afterwards, if you were openly gay, you risked losing your home, your job, and being stalked by vicious bigots determined to exterminate you – as happened to a friend of mine, who had a soda syphon smashed over his head and died. The last thing we thought about was marriage and kids, we just wanted to be allowed to live. If you wanted kids, you married a woman and had boyfriends on the side, and maybe, just maybe, came out later once they were grown.

  26. Doug: Have you never seen an Indian with a jet engine on his head? ;)

  27. Brian Burton 3 Nov 2009, 4:31pm

    Remember, remember the 5th of November, gunpowder Treason and Plot?

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