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Cameron: ‘Polish allies are not homophobic’

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  1. Cameron says: “Poland is a Catholic country. Most of the parties in Poland do take a stance like that on issues like gay marriage . . . I don’t happen to agree with them but they’re not a homophobic party.”

    So, he admits the homophobic stance but denies that the party is homophobic!

    Unbelievable!

    Unbelievable tosh from this public-school-boy’s gob!

  2. . . . so when the Polish authorities wanted to ban the Telly Tubbies because it was thought that Tinky Winky was “Gay”

    . . . what does this really tell us?

  3. Brian Burton 7 Oct 2009, 2:43pm

    Cameron says our Polish Allies are not Homophobic. Well, he would say that would’nt he?

  4. Its the usual NuTory denial they seem to think nothing is homophobic.

    NuTories same old denial of homophobia.

  5. Read this 2009 Amnesty International report into Poland’s
    human Rights!
    If the tories think homophobia is behind these poeple they are
    sadly mistaken.
    Human Rights in
    Republic of Poland

  6. So much for all the talk by the tories this week of “honesty with voters”. It seems that Mr Cameron’s criteria for bona-fide homophobia are far removed from what homophobia actually is. Given this, I can’t see too many LGBT people believing one single word he says.

  7. Taken from an Amnesty International public statement titled: Poland: LGBT rights under attack

    The Equality Parades in the capital, Warsaw, in June 2004 and again May 2005, were banned.

    When he refused for the second year running to authorize the Equality Parade in Warsaw in May 2005, the then mayor of the city, Lech Kaczynski of the Law and Justice (Prawo i Sprawiedliwosc) party –- who was later elected the President of Poland –- held that such an event would be “sexually obscene” and offensive to other people’s religious feelings. The improvised parade still took place on 10 June, gathering more than 2,500 participants.

    Less than a week after that, the mayor authorized the so-called “normality” parade, during which members of the All Polish Youth reportedly demonstrated on the streets of Warsaw and shouted slogans inciting intolerance and homophobia. In September 2005, a Warsaw court ruled that the mayor’s decision to ban the Equality Parade was illegal.

    http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/EUR37/002/2005/en/e3091ad1-d480-11dd-8743-d305bea2b2c7/eur370022005en.pdf

    So the Law and Justice party are not homophobic Mr Cameron? so this never happened under the orders of the Law and Justice party leader then!

    NuTories same old homophobia

  8. so he admits they have homophobic views yet deny their homophobia?
    and the tories claim they’ve changed

  9. Slimy queen-lovin’ Tories are DANGEROUS!

  10. Simon Murphy 7 Oct 2009, 4:00pm

    David Cameron is a lying snake if he is trying to pretend his party’s alliance with the Polish facists is totally innocent. It is not innocent. If facism is acceptable to the Tories then why are they fearful about inviting the BNP to their grouping in Europe.

    The stench of homophobia coming from the Tories is getting worse.

    Little surprise. PR will only go so far. When the Tories climb into bed with facists the Tory PR exercise is exposed.

  11. Har Davids 7 Oct 2009, 4:03pm

    Tele Tubbies? What about the uproar about a ‘gay’ elephant not too long ago? Just google ‘gay elephant poland’ and you’ll know what country / people we’re up against. And the Catholic Church is very much alive there!! And let’s not get started on anti-semitism.

  12. Ryan Haynes - fyi radio 7 Oct 2009, 4:06pm

    10 years ago my mother called gays Fags – today both her sons are ‘fags’ and she has no problem with it…

  13. @Ryan:

    Both?! Gosh, that must’ve been one hell of a cleansing experience for her…

  14. Wiktor Moszczynski 7 Oct 2009, 4:46pm

    Poland is changing although 50 years of Communist misrule followed by a nationalist reaction to it has left Poland a little behind the West in its liberal zeitgeist. However most Poles now consider President Kaczynski and his sidekick and former spokesman Michal Kaminski an anachronism. I remember when only 30 years ago Britain was steeped with the same anti-gay prejudices. But now even people in Poland are wondering why the Conservatives are seeking to raise the public profile of the collapsing Law and Justice Party, especially as this party has an interventionist approach to the market economy and supports more European subsidies for agriculture, both of which views are anathema to the present Tory Party. Also Kaczynski and Kaminski are not themselves anti-Semitic but they have been happy in the past to consort with anti-Semites for opportunistic political gain and more shame to them for that.However I am very concerned by Stephen Fry’s earlier comments about Auschwitz being on the wrong side of the Polish border. What is that all about? Auschwitz and the adjoining Birkenau death camps were set up by Germany in Nazi occupied Poland and more than a million Jews and other nationalities, including Poles, perished there in gas chambers or being worked to death. Borders meant nothing to the Germans. What do they mean to Stephen Fry?

  15. I don’t think Cameron will get many votes from gays anyway so he’s not that bothered.

    I won’t be voting for him for a start.

  16. Trust these new Tories at your peril! They just want our vote. Well…………they will not get my vote.

  17. My partner comes from a family of five siblings (four sons and a daughter).Three sons are gay (except the youngest brother)and his sister is lesbian. They are a very happy and close family and speak every day – how’s that for being the odd one out only this time the odd one out is str8!

  18. Unfortunately, I find it all too easy to believe that the current Conservative party are culturally homophobic. I now have more reason to think this – it seems that their homophobia is either disguised, or denied, or both. This smacks to me of a leader who fails to recognise it – which is even more dangerous. There are even homophobic undertones to some of the tories’ gay members stories and arguments – which serves as a reminder, but sadly no suprise, to me that it is sometimes the gays that collude in it. I’m afraid I can never currently imagine myself voting tory (and certainly not just on this issue!)

  19. So that’s me then, little ol miss churlish because I will never forgive or forget the Tories for Section 28. So far as the Tories are concerned its a case of birds of a feather, nothing Cameron may say will expunge the homophobic reality that is constantly seething just under the skin of the Conservative Party.

  20. Sister Mary Clarence 7 Oct 2009, 5:01pm

    I wonder if there are a load of numpties kicking off in Poland about the Polish Law and Justice Party consorting with the ‘liberal’ Conservative party, and therefore potentially eroding some of the values they stand for

  21. Cameron’s statement is akin to Nixon’s “I am not a crook.”

  22. I think that it’s even worse that the Tory party almost expects us to accept a level of homophobila. A kind of “they’re homophobes, it’s just the way they are, but I’m not.” Very not good enough Mr Cameron. I for one shall campaign strongly against the Tories next election.

  23. Harthacanute 7 Oct 2009, 6:27pm

    Mind you, David Cameron says that he isn’t homophobic and supports gay rights; but when it comes down to actions, he has an abysmal record of failing to support LGBT equality measures.

    Of the thirteen significant LGBT equality votes that have taken place since he has been an MP, he has only supported three. He voted against five and conveniently absented himself from the house on five.

    More telling is the fact that on the two most recent occasions he could have voted with the majority of MPs to support equality, he voted against .. and he also voted against the repeal of prohibition on promotion of homosexuality (Section 28).

    If that is his idea of supporting gay rights, then heavens only knows what his idea of homophobia is.

    As far as I am concerned, he is a smarmy fantacist.

  24. Omar Kuddus 7 Oct 2009, 6:28pm

    Of course Poland is not homophobic! It depends how you define Homophobia then I guess, and from where I am sitting It is homophobic, and you cant state in the same sentence that something is homophobic but then it is not.
    It was Poland that boycotted and destroyed the Lisbon Treaty that would have given substantial rights to LGBT’s.
    Why do politicians always bring religion into the equation, for politics is meant to be a democratic, unbiased view, which takes all its subjects, regardless of their sexuality into account.
    But then equality was never on the agenda for LGBT’s and they have always been served a compromise, and when homophobia raises its ugly head, the actions justified or played down.

  25. they oppose gay marriage, their homophobic. their homophobic. so are the tories and labour.

    i dont think its a huge deal that the tories hang out with these people. whats SHOULD be a huge deal over here is that the tories are homophobes.

  26. The Tories are homophobic. They just deny they are, because they think homophobia is OK.

  27. Well “they’re not homophobes, they’re Polish!” is a very clear response, but it is a thoroughly stupid one – and not terribly fair to the majority of the Polish people.

    If it takes me less than 5 minutes to find nuggets like this 2005 gem…
    “Homosexuals should not be isolated, however they should not be school teachers for example. Active homosexuals surely not, in any case.”
    …Then clearly he has a low opinion of the public – too much to hope some mainstream media will care to scratch beneath the surface of this proclamation?

  28. davewhack 7 Oct 2009, 7:18pm

    cameron wants to appear liberal for purely selfish reasons. He wants power and is trying to appeal to everyone. He thinks by being Nice he isnt homphobic. To be honest i dont think he gives human rights a second thought. as the other people on here say, dont trust the tories. Why? Because of their abysmal record on gay rights. I think Cameron would have sided with the Nazis if he thought it would serve his lust for tory! sorry i mean glory.

  29. There’s a stench of barmy liberal politics here. NuLabour have driven this country into the ground over the last decade. Does that mean nothing??? Scargill wasn’t the type to break out feather boas, but that reflected the times. Likewise, this polish party has questionable ethics, but that just reflects the state of Poland and other socially repressed countries really. Let it go, they will modernise in time.

    More importantly, why does gay culture ignore anything positive about conservative politics, and the bad in socialism? Why trust Gordon Brown and NuLabour any more than David Cameron? This is all about gaining votes, just at different costs…. and as an athiest I’d rather reject the idea of adapting ‘marriage’ over national bankruptcy and useless social policies any day!

    NuLabour, same old socialists!!

  30. Poland is in the pocket of the Roman Catholic Church.
    I lived and worked there for many years.

    And “there are NO homeosexuals in Poland; we haven’t any…w Polsce, nie mamy gejow..”

    What planet are you on, David?

    Not the same one that I am ckuffing well on, that’s for sure.

    There’s one vote you’ll not be getting.

    Keith.

  31. Cameron’s Polish political allies aren’t homophobic – they just don’t like fags. And since not liking fags isn’t homophobia (it’s just a bit of Catholic religious doctrine), it’s pretty clear that homophobia doesn’t even exist.
    Perhaps when Mr. Cameron is elected PM, he can not only deny the existence of blatant homophobia, he can rival Iran’s Amadinejad by concurring in the denial of the exitence of homosexuals.

  32. Who cares about the Poles. Stuff them. And the pope. We should be concentrating on getting the troops out Afghanistan.

  33. Simon Murphy 7 Oct 2009, 10:17pm

    No 29: Dan: you say: ” NuLabour have driven this country into the ground over the last decade. Does that mean nothing??? ”

    Of course it means something. It means that LGBT voters will vote for Labour in fewer numbers at the next election. But the Tories aren’t the only other choice.

    And with Tories denying their allies quite obvious homophobia it is clear that LGBT people should think long and hard about the consequences of voting Tory to their personal rights.

  34. The Polish foreign minister was part of the exclusive Bullingdon club at Oxford university. The Law and Justice party have an man who David Cameron will defend to the death in the old boys network!

  35. @Dan (29): ‘Why does gay culture ignore anything positive about conservative politics?’

    Because the Conservatives were inherently anti-gay till about five minutes ago, and still are when the microphones are switched off.

  36. Eagle Ashcroft 8 Oct 2009, 1:20am

    I don’t know what a Torie is, but Cameron has his head up his a-s by stating the Pollocks aren’t homophobic when its obvious they are. Its like denying the Nazis ever killed millions of Jews in the nineteen thirties and forties. This Cameron fellow must be totally nuts if he believes for a minute is this double talk that a sane person is buying his rot.

  37. Eagle Ashcroft 8 Oct 2009, 2:30am

    Well I found out what a Torie or Tory is; its an Irish word meaning outlaw or robber. But why would an outlaw be allowed to enter politics or run for office? Is Great Britain a corrupt country run by outlaws? And if so why wouldn’t honest people find a way to boot them out of office or run against them? Its all a mystery to me. Anyway now that I know Cameron is an outlaw I understand why he would make up all of those lies and speak that double talk. Here in New Mexico we have lots of people in government that are outlaws and they all lie and use double talk too, but not too many honest people run against them because crooks put them in office and if you aren’t a crook you’ve not going to get elected cause no crook will vote for you. I suppose that is the case in Great Britain. But here in the town I live in there are lots of gay persons in government and even many public buildings and streets are named after gay persons. That’s what you need to do over there; get a large bunch of gays to move into a small town and get them elected to government positions and become powerful and eventually have a lot of influence in Great Britain as a whole and run all of the outlaws and other undesirables out of your government and gays will have more rights.

  38. Jean-Paul Bentham 8 Oct 2009, 2:58am

    Noel (21):

    Nixon? Isn’t he the guy who said that Americans are going to the moon “BECAUSE IT’S THERE!”

    All together now:

    “Yes sir, Mr. Cameron sir, we are al-l-l-l churlish except you!”

    Eagle Ashcroft (37):

    Sounds like a plan. Would work, wouldn’t it.

  39. what!!!!!????? i’m polish and i know that they are homophobic. cameron should come here to poland and listen what they say about gay people.

  40. cameron should see raport about homophobia, which is made by KPH (kampania przeciwko homofobii)

  41. it’s shame!!!!!!! we, polish gays thought that uk would help us to fight aginst homophobia.

  42. Jean-Paul Bentham 8 Oct 2009, 6:46am

    Help you to fight homophobia? Who, Cameron?

    Holy Public Image, Batman; do Polish gays know how to spray tan?

    Ever see a zebra in the snow?

  43. There is nothing like self deception is there, Mr Cameron. You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the people all the time – I live in Poland and believe me it is homophobic 100%.

  44. Cameron made a Faustian bargain with the right wing of his party in order to secure the leadership. This involved embracing cryptofascist parties in Eastern Europe who follow big chunks of the Nazi and Stalinist playbook. He believes himself to be a ‘one nation Tory’ who nevertheless supped with the Devil to get power (Machiavelli would applaud him) over a party which is still Thatcherite, homophobic and xenophobic in its water.
    We must hope for a hung parliament next time (only serious possibility of getting PR)- New Labour is a wreck and Cameron cannot be trusted to ride his tiger. The Tories, if they win next year, will prove to be insufficiently loyal to or united around their leader to face the problems awaiting them and and could be evicted after one term. That will gratify yours truly in itself but lgbt issues will be sidelined or pushed backwards in the storm. We have to keep shouting!

  45. vulpus_rex 8 Oct 2009, 10:01am

    Tony Blair allowed Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness into government in Northern Ireland, both of whom said that it was OK to kill british soldiers.

    Would someone from the pro-labour, anti Tory group faction here like to explain how this is more acceptable than the current Tory relationship with Polish politicians?

    Can’t?

    Still going to vote Labour?

    Still Criticising Tories?

    Giant effing hypocrites – so typical of new labour support.

  46. I never voted Tory before Section 28 and would never vote for them now. Section 28 set gay equality back a decade – unforgivable – homophobic language in schools is rife and unchallenged and kids continue to be bullied. Torys have never been gay friendly and never will be. MP’s will say anything pre-election and then forget everything they said or promised. There is no doubt the Polish are Catholic and homophobic as are Faith Schools who sadly are able to opt out of sex education. Poor gay kids in Faith Schools – they will continue to suffer. The fight goes on!

  47. Some people seem to think that if you criticise the NuTories your somehow a NuLabour supporter!

    Ever thought other parties might exist vulpus_rex?

  48. vulpus_rex 8 Oct 2009, 11:50am

    “Ever thought other parties might exist vulpus_rex?”

    Yes, and it is indeed gratifying to note that some of the most ardent critics of the Conservative party at least have the brains to recognise the walking disaster that is Labour and have clearly stated their intention to look at alternatives.

    What is truly depressing is the number of sheep like, moronic gay men in here whose powers of logic only extend as far as thinking “Labour allowed me to sleep with 16 year old boys, they therefore own my vote for ever”.

    Notwithstanding the above I would still like someone to explain why Tories forming an alliance with so-called unsavoury Polish politicians is worse than Labour doing it with terrorist supporters?

  49. I’ve said it till I’m blue in the face (whoops thats the Tory colour…red/yellow in the face) I wouldn’t trust the Tories new Gay friendly attempts when they are in alliance with Right wing Neo Nazis!! They left the centre Right, ie Mrs Merkles lot and are cosying up to leaders who are anti semitic and homophobic! And as for “Dave” Lord Snooty Cameron don’t try and pull the wool over our eyes, Mr; we don’t fall for your litle games!

  50. Gay Polish people don’t seem to agree with you Mr Cameron!

  51. Simon Murphy 8 Oct 2009, 4:12pm

    #45: Vulpus_Rex: “Tony Blair allowed Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness into government in Northern Ireland, both of whom said that it was OK to kill british soldiers.
    Would someone from the anti Tory group faction here like to explain how this is more acceptable than the current Tory relationship with Polish politicians?”

    Since Tony Blair invited Sinn Fein (and by extension the IRA) into talks the Troubles in Northern Ireland have effectively been resolved. Yes there is still tension but since the Good Friday Agreement (which placed obligations on all sides in the Troubles) how many British soldiers have been killed in Northern Ireland? As a result of negotiations the violence ended. Are you seriously claiming that Blair should not have spoken to them and that the murder in Northern Ireland should have continued? If so then you are a moron.

    David Cameron is making absolutely no demands on the Polish fascists to reverse their evil attitudes to homosexuality. He simply denies their fascism in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

  52. vulpus_rex 8 Oct 2009, 5:16pm

    “Are you seriously claiming that Blair should not have spoken to them and that the murder in Northern Ireland should have continued?”

    No but effectively you are.

    You sometimes have to do business with people you don’t like in order to bring about a greater change for the good – hence alliance with Poland – is that clear and simple enough Simon, and if not I guess that makes you the moron?

  53. @Charlie :- there’s more to living than just being gay, and NuLabour have wrecked us. Do you really think John Prescott and the highly religious lot, including Tony Bliar, like gay people? Are you that misguided??

    No-one likes gay people, we are tolerated and making inroads to equality. Any UK goverment, asides the BNP or one under Sharia Law, will slowly edge us forward, in the name of votes as tolerance improves. Deal with political reality.

  54. Jean-Paul Bentham 9 Oct 2009, 3:42am

    Jacek:

    What do you think now?

  55. Yer right, the Conservative Party is not Homophobic….like Hitler only built Jewish Holiday homes. I’ll not vote for homophobic Conservatives, I’ll not vote for failed Labour & my Lib Dem Mp Andrew George has been as useful on gay issues as a chocolate teapot…does not leave me to many options… MK or Green?

  56. Jean-Paul Bentham 11 Oct 2009, 4:24am

    Hello Jacek.

  57. Mihangel apYrs 11 Oct 2009, 9:24pm

    @Vulpus-rex
    Blair made common cause with the NI terrorists in order to ring the Troubles to an end, which has overwhelmingly happened. He may have had party political or personal motives, but the effect was a good outcome for the UK and Eire.

    Cameron has made common cause with these parties to get a lever in the EU and to suck up to the right wing and eurosceptic branch of his party, for political popularity.

    Can you see a difference?

  58. Eagle Ashcroft 11 Oct 2009, 10:30pm

    (quote)
    it’s shame!!!!!!! we, polish gays thought that uk would help us to fight aginst homophobia.

    Comment by Jacek — October 8, 2009

    Don’t hold your breath Jacek because these British Tories from what I have been reading in Pink News so far are pretty homophobic and are not about to help anyone because in their own little pea brain mind they believe if they help the GLBT, people will think they are gay. These political morons are in politics because they aren’t intelligent enough to go out and get a real job in the real world, because if they even tried they would be a complete failure. It makes no difference rather you are from Poland, Britain, Kalamazoo or Timbuktu, if you are a politician and you want to stay in politics any gay issues or gay causes you might want to help out in is just a taboo subject because the majority of people have the brains of a duck and the fear of being found out that they might be found out they have gay leanings toward their close friends, otherwise why should the GLBT bother them in the least. Obama knows he is “straight” and so he is willing to come forward and help. Now if these Tories are really so-called-straight what do they have to fear, unless of course they are all gay them selves and fear their secret might get out.

  59. Much as I loathe the kacz twins, I must admit that some of this has been taken out of context and lost in translation as well as misunderstood because of cultural differences. It’s not the first time something a Polish Politician says is mistranslated.

    From what I’ve read of an interview with kaczynski in 2005, he is against the parade not because it is homosexual, but because it is to do with sex. Sex is not as big a deal in the media in Poland as in the UK (at least it never used to be). It’s still primarily something people do during marriage in the privacy of their own home and do not talk to their friends about. Its a very different culture when it comes to sex (and many other things). Homosexuality isnt much talked about probably because of the family culture. I reckon that many people would not want to come out because they do not want to upset their families. I wonder where homophobic attacks are higher. The UK or Poland. Ive come across homophobic attitudes in the UK even in this day and age. it’s all very well England patting itself on the back for allowing same sex partnerships to be recognised, but it’s only a few years since it happened. It’s not like it wasn’t in the “no” brigade until recently. It’s not like they haven’t persecuted homosexuals here and hounded them greatly in the past. All very well to sit and point now, but what about in the 60s?

    He states in the interview “once again I state that I have nothing against homosexuals having equal rights and citizenship. If I am unsure about the parade it is because personal,intimate matters should not be the subject of a demonstration. Sex is insignificant and is not the essense of life.”

    if it was a heterosexual parade where the objective were to flaunt sex then he would be equally against it. He gets a bit into a bit of sticky situation trying to explain himself and goes back several times to quoting his stance of “homosexuals have been, are and will be. There is no reason why someone who has been born of such a persuasion should not have the opportunity to realise themselves in life and to have a partnership with someone of the same persuasion in the same way that a man and woman are together.”

    So I think what he is trying (as usual rather gauchly) to put across is that he is against the promotion of homosexuality or any sexuality in the public sphere or in an ostentatious way. I’m not sure of the other things he’s said as I’d need to see them in Polish to see the accuracy of the translation.

    I wouldn’t vote for this party myself, but they do have very popular policies which is why they are in power. You have to remember Poland is a country just about twenty years out of communist rule. During communism demonstrations were not allowed full stop. However, Poland has never criminalised homosexual sex itself. There have not been laws persecuting homosexuals for having same sex relationships. I reckon that if Poland did not have such a conservative religion, it would probably be very socially liberal country as it has a tradition of a general tolerance and openness which is both at odds with but also a catalyst for some of the strong opinions its citizens are so happy to share. It’s also a country of strong family values and these are in conflict with progressive thinking and change. It is a country of great contradictions. People very much say what they think and it’s not considered rude to speak your mind in Poland. Diplomacy is not a national trait. Unlike the UK and particularly the conservative party….

    Give Poland a break, they are still struggling to sort their country and national identity out after Yalta sold them out to the Soviets & roosevelt and churchill stood back and let stalin walk all over them in WWII. Theyd only had twenty years of freedom before hitler marched in. You can’t expect them to catch up straight away. They even had a political party for beer admirers which says it all. However, the party’s agenda to stop vodka drinking in favour of beer appears to have worked.

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