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Gay Dr Who and Torchwood star John Barrowman told by TV bosses to stay in the closet

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  1. I didn’t think John was ever IN the closet!

  2. This reminds me of the Gok Wan story – where his parent were unaware he was gay.

    Lee

  3. Jean-Paul Bentham 28 Sep 2009, 11:24am

    He can stay in my closet…..anytime and for as long as he’d like.

  4. Did anyone remeber when he used to present live and kicking <3

  5. Jean Paul, you can’t have him. He’s spoken for.

    I remember Live and Kicking. I don’t remember John on it. Which is weird. He’s not the sort of person you could forget. Which has led me to think that he was not properly utilised on that programme and his talents were stifled. And if I was a betting person, I would put money on THAT being the programme that told him to stay in the closet. Although those two short-lived American sitcoms he did also jump to mind.

    And here am I speculating and second guessing! Oh, dear! It’s Amazon.co.uk’s fault for delaying my copy of the book so I can’t get the whole story!

  6. He’s totally bloody gorgeous, drooooool!!!

  7. Brian Burton 28 Sep 2009, 12:36pm

    The BBC never fail to amaize me with their crass stupidity. John had a very public Civil Partnership cerimony in the Media and in the face of any for, or against contingents. This is unbelivabe!

  8. What’s the betting it was a US company that told him to do that? They appear to have a very full closet what with…..oh, but we mustn’t name names, eh? ;)

  9. Brian, the civil ceremony was in 2006. He was already famously gay by then. This story goes back before all of that. It was either L&K worrying about their saturday morning kiddy telly or it was in the USA.

  10. John Barrowman didn’t so much “come out of the closet” as kick the closet door off it’s hinges with a pair of size 12 army boots and a baseball bat. I’m all for declaring one’s sexuality, but I think he overdoes it, and has a habit of trying to make people squirm.

  11. Size 12 and a half actually! I don’t think he DOES overdo it. I think the press pay way too much attention to him and exaggerate a lot of it. You get an interview in a magazine that is 99% about a TV show he’s on or an upcoming project and the headline will be focus on some bit of sensationalism that was one throwaway line halfway down the third column and every paragraph will begin with ‘Openly gay John’ or ‘Camp actor John’ or something like that. It’s lazy journalism, thats all. His REAL efforts working with Stonewall and other organisations, get glossed over.

  12. ps to misquote the immortasl words of Michael Caine, He only blew the bloody doors off (that Closet!)

  13. Jean-Paul Bentham 28 Sep 2009, 1:24pm

    Rose:

    Clever.

  14. Thank you, Jean Paul, but for what am I being complimented?

  15. Robert, ex-pat Brit 28 Sep 2009, 1:33pm

    In America, it is career suicide for a gay film actor to come out, so I wouldn’t mind betting there was some American involvement in this. Look what happened to Jody Foster, no more films being made, ditto Rupert Everett, Kevin Spacey and others.

  16. Right …. ’cause no=one would have noticed … Lol

  17. Jean-Paul Bentham 28 Sep 2009, 2:12pm

    Rose:

    Everything you’ve written since …you know…the naïve thing… haha!

    And especially on everything you’ve written on this thread about John Barrowman so far, LOL.

    JP

  18. I’m diabetic, so I’m not allowed chocolate. John Barrowman is my guilty indulgence. In a world where men have generally disappointed me and let me down to the point where I gave up on them altogether he has so far managed not to do so.

    Media bias is an area I am a little less naive about than LGBT issues generally. (Although I am learning fast) Hence that comment about journalism. When I read anything, a book, or a news article, I always have an eye on HOW it was written, the target audience, the impact the journalism was hoping to have. I could go on, but there must be a word limit on these comments.

    By the way the shoe size was mentioned in a radio interview last week with regard to the high heels John is currently wearing for his West End stint. I’m not his personal chiropodist!

  19. Barrowman likes to create the illusion that he’s been out forever. In reality he publically came out very recently (October 2004), and only then because a well-known gay publication was about to out him anyway. Shortly before that, he had given an interview in which he claimed to be the boyfriend of Angie Dickinson. She was in her early 70’s and he in his mid 30’s at the time.

  20. ok, now even he’s managed to disappoint me. I give up on men completely!!!!! Even you, Jean Paul, and I was starting to like you!!!

    (I’m joking, Jean Paul. I still like you.) I’m just completely lost for an answer to Altana’s post! But stand by. I’ll think of one. It might need a bit more research. Damn, Amazon, I need that book.

  21. JOhn Barrowman and Brian Paddick are exceptionally good role models! When I was a kid I thought I would grow up to be “One of those” as Hilda Baker used to say. Role models in the 1970s? Larry Grayson and John Inman (funny guys but not inspirational to a gay teenager!) JOhn can be ott but he is honest about his sexuality and its even hinted at strongly in Dr Who (even more so in Torchwood of course!)

  22. Why does’t he name some names?

    It’s not slanderous to name and shame the producers and the station if it’s actually true.

    I find Barrowman to be a repellant creature – he is so obnoxious and loud. And he speaks with this vile American accent that is fake. There was a documentary about him last year and when he was speaking to the camera he was his normal, obnoxious, over the top self and he spoke with an American accent.

    When he was filmed speaking to his parents he spoke with a Scottish accent.

    I wonder if this latest tale is true. Seeing as he won’t name and shame I suspect he might be making it up.

  23. Well, you just know I’m not going to let that pass! But I think I have explained about his dual accents almost as often as he has. You know perfectly well why he does that. It’s one of the most often repeated stories about him. So give it a rest.

    As for naming and shaming, that isn’t his style. His mum or gran or maiden auntie must have told him that old adage about ‘if you can’t say someting nice, say nothing’. He praises those who deserve praise, but he doesn’t get into mud-slinging. And that’s to be commended, not condemned.

  24. Brian Burton 28 Sep 2009, 4:09pm

    Rose,
    You are the voice of reason amongst this clutch of tounge-wagging, chattering class acts on this thread.
    A little Shakespeare for thee sweet one:

    Thou art a summer Bird,
    Which ever in the haunch of winter sings
    the lifting of the day.

  25. No I don’t know why he speaks with 2 completely separate accents depending on who he is speaking to.

    His 2 separate accents are so vastly different that they cannot be explained other than by realising that one of them is blatantly fake.

    You can choose to believe his stories about being told to stay in the closet by his station. However you have absolutely zero evidence for this except John Barrowman’s own statements. It is perfectly possible that he is making it up. I mean he is promoting a book to make some cash for himself. He will naturally want to drum up some interest in the book. And it’s nice and safe for him to make claims about his previous employers’s behaviour when he gives no details about them at all.

  26. Brian, how sweet. You’ve restored my faith in men. I just hope I’ve restored Jean Paul’s faith in me!

    Vince, for a start, he’s not promoting anything. This wasn’t an interview with him. It was an article by a journalist who decided to pick this particular subject from all the subjects in the newly published book as it made for an interesting article about one of the problems facing gay entertainers.

    His accent/s are completely irrelevant to this subject. He’s lived in Cardiff long enough to have learnt a passable Welsh accent by now. It doesn’t make what he says any less or more valid. It’s a side issue that I knew was going to come up at some point in this thread today, and lo and behold it did! Well done for being so totally predictble, Vince.

  27. “I’m diabetic, so I’m not allowed chocolate”

    You need a new dietician, Rose. My sister’s diabetic and eats chocolate just like me (ie pretty much daily :D )

    Are we sure this isn’t just an old story re-stated for the book promotion, by the way? I’m sure I’ve heard this before, and with more detail too.

  28. On the chocolate issue, Iris, possibly, but a daily diet of John Barrowman has less calories, so I might just stick with him.

    It IS an old story in so far as this is something that happened some time ago. The previous book has a story about the producers of either Titans or Central Park West (cant be bothered looking up which it is) telling him to stop being seen about town with his boyfriend. This sounds like a similar story. It may have happened to him more than once on different programmes. I’m not sure. Damn Amazon. I want my book!!!!!

    As to book promotion, yes, of course it is, in a way. But it is the Pink News journalist who picked up on this story. It’s not something he is personally hyping as a selling point. Different bits of that book are popping up all over the place this week. I’ve seen a Scots paper that focussed on a story about his childhood in Glasgow, a Welsh one thats full of his Torchwood anecdotes. A Birmingham paper that loved his reminiscences about doing panto there. It’s the pick and mix sweetie bag of the week and everyone is finding their own favourite bits to comment on. And its just what happens when a new book comes out by anyone. It’ll settle down in a bit.

  29. Can’t stand John Barrowman. There’s something toe curlingly cheesy about him.

  30. Yep. I knew somebody would say that, eventually, too. For every two or three people who say he’s adorable, handsome, sexy, the cream in their coffee, there’s a ‘toe curlingly cheesy’ remark. Either we’re wrong or they are. I just don’t know!

    But being cheesy doesn’t make his point any less relevant, either.

  31. Jean-Paul Bentham 28 Sep 2009, 6:21pm

    Hi Rose;

    You’re doing alright, and my closet is large enough for John, his partner… and you! John is an artist; need I say more.

  32. Oh my! Me, John and Scott in your closet together! Are you joining us! What a party! What a closet! :D

  33. Rose said:
    “On the chocolate issue, Iris, possibly, but a daily diet of John Barrowman has less calories, so I might just stick with him”

    Are you a man or a mouse, Rose? You can have BOTH!! :D

  34. Man or a mouse? I’m a woman!!! A sexually confused one, seeing as my hetero hormones are attracted to a gay man and my lesbian hormones are enjoying their freedom having recently been released for the first time since I was 17, but I am a woman, definitely. I hope I’m still allowed in Jean Paul’s closet, though.

  35. Ah! :D Thank you for the clarification! I admit I was hedging my bets a bit on your gender as I thought you’d implied on another thread that you’d come out and I’d assumed you were female, but then I read here you saying you were “off men” so I got totally befuddled! Apologies if I caused any offence.

    Me – I’m a woman too and a lesbian. :) But I will say that most of my lesbian friends find many gay men ‘attractive’. I don’t know why. I don’t think it’s a physical desire, if you know what I mean, but maybe some gay men have some quality that attracts women who like women? Hope that made sense!

    Your mention of Titans in your previous post rings a bell, but I can’t remember for sure. I think it’s standard pratice on US shows. You’d be surprised how many actors are actually gay, and at what lengths they go to to hide it – whether that’s their choice or their agents/TV company, etc.

  36. no offence at all. I have been married, got kids, one of whom is a lesbian herself, but since the marriage broke up I have turned to what I think was my natural inclination and preference. Long story. But that’s why I do feel I’m playing catch up on the LGBT scene.

    As for the attraction to John Barrowman, well, lets face it, he is gorgeous, charming, generous, a great role model for anyone.

    And I did look it up. I motivated myself to go across the room to the bookshelf and consult the index! It was the producer of Central Park West who called him into the office and implied that he was being too gay, but they seem to have been more indirect about it. This new story sounds like he was being told right out to act straight. It might be a different story.

  37. oooh Amazon have finally got their act together and despatched my copy of the book from which this healthy discussion originated. I shall be eagerly looking out for a city link delivery van tomorrow.

  38. “As for the attraction to John Barrowman, well, lets face it, he is gorgeous, charming, generous, a great role model for anyone.”

    And he has the most infectious smile! :D I love his joie de vivre!

    Your honesty and open-ness is impressive. I didn’t exactly wake up at the age of 12 or whatever and know I was a lesbian either. I grew up in a rural area and spent a lot of my teenage years very confused about how I felt, and not understanding my own feelings because there was no-one to talk to. I sometimes feel a bit silly for not identifying my feelings more definitely sooner (I keep reading about people who knew they were gay at the age of 5 :D ) but who cares, eh? Life’s rarely easy or straightforward, and it’s definitely a learning process all the way through.

    Lovely to have you on Pink News anyway. Hope John’s new book arrives on your doorstep a.s.a.p :D

  39. How can anyone say nasty stuff about John’s accents? Lots of people I know can switch from polish to english and adopt a different accent. So do Indians and Pakistanis! All John does is adapt to his environment. If you want to say he’s a crap actor or singer then go ahead (although I think he is brill) but please don’t be so petty to one of our Leading Gay lights!

  40. Well, it is perfectly easy to defend him against accusations of being a crap actor or singer. Just refer to the likes of Jerry Herman, Stephen Sondheim, Mel Brooks and other big names who aproached HIM to be in their productions. Yes, I’ve read the first book!

    Infectious smile, yes. I rather enjoy watching him descend into a rather adorable giggle when something amuses him.

  41. My God, or more thank God, especially for those beautiful blue eyes, oh my and he’s gay as well, it’s a long shot but a guy can certainly well dream.

    But on a more serious note, good for him to not hide for anyone else, we should not be forced to be hidden away though I can’t really say much about people should be coming out more and stuff (still not came out to everyone, myself) but it is nice to hear he had the courage and everything to stand up for his rights.

  42. Why has the title of this article been changed in the past hour? Originally it just said “Gay Actor John Barrowman”. Now it says “Gay Doctor Who and Tochwood Star” And can somebody please correct that spelling. That’s TORCHWOOD. Nobody was having any problem knowing who he was. And this sort of implies if you don’t read carefully that it was on one of those programmes that he was told not to be gay.

  43. This is from his *first* book, and is very old news. NOBODY on either “Doctor Who” or “Torchwood” has asked JB to go back in the closet. This was for a cheesy US show he did ages ago. Either “Titans” or “Central Park West” which were what – early 90’s??? His new book is called “I Am What I Am” and that is what is coming out now. He’s been out and proud for years!!! Somebody has been VERY, VERY lazy on this website and should be spanked!

  44. It was “Central Park West” and the producer was Darren Star. If you google for the show, ‘John Barrowman’ and ‘roller skating’, John’s talking about Scott, but he’s referred to as John’s girlfriend in the interview.

  45. Well, no surprises there then, and nobody has sorted out the spelling, yet!

  46. Rose: Thornton’s do a fantastic gift set of diabetic chocolate that’s really good, and unlike John Barrowman, doesn’t leave a nasty aftertaste. :p

  47. Diabetic chocolate gives you the trot.

    When I see John Barrowman on TV speaking in his fake accent it has the same effect.

  48. Oh, I see they’ve corrected the spelling.

    Robn, Vince, as somebody said elsewhere on Pink News, take two aspirins and go lie down. I’m not rising to either of you.

  49. By the way, guys, I notice that this article is top of ‘most read today’ and going up the ‘most commented’ list. So if you feel so strongly about it, the best thing is to stop reading the article and stop commenting. You’re just making it more popular.

  50. Brian Burton 29 Sep 2009, 10:47am

    RobN,
    Diabetic chocolate? What muck they churn out for diabetics in general. My Partner is diabetic and would not touch diabetic products with a ten foot barge pole.
    Now John Barrowman? Some were born great, some achieve greatness and some have greatness thrust upon them. The main thing is to be remembered by everyone. If you want an elaborate tombstone, it’s because you have not achieved very much in life.

  51. I like John Bannerman and I really don’t think his career is going to suffer at all. In fact he is probably a role model for many gays.

  52. Sorry, can’t help myself here. I have to point out that *John Bannerman* was a Scottish Liberal politician in the early 20th century! But I feel mean about picking on somebody else’s typo, especially when further back in the thread I called two American soaps sitcoms by mistake and nobody picked on me about it! Sorry, Rich!.

    But no, John’s career has never suffered from being openly gay. Though obviously he has suffered a fair bit of hurt from people who can’t handle the fact that he is. There is, however, that famous, and often quoted incident where he was turned down for Will and Grace for looking too STRAIGHT! So I guess its damned if you do, damned if you don’t half the time.

  53. Ohhhh! Iris! The book came! So now I can find out what the whole story REALLY is! Back in several hours time when I’ve read it.

  54. Rose – are you a stalker perhaps?

    Your ‘interest’ in the fake-accented, diarrhoeia inducing John Barrowman seems quite obsessive.

  55. Looking forward to your update, Rose :) Vince, fair enough to not like John, but it’s a bit mean to call him ‘fake-accented’. It freaked me out too when I first heard him speak with his Scottish accent, but I don’t think it’s ‘fake’ because it’s what he naturally does rather than an affectation Now the reasons behind why he did that as a child are interesting, but I don’t think it’s calculated at all.

  56. How is buying a book obsessive? Really, Vince, get a grip. WH Smiths have a whole aisle of celeb biographies. Is it obsessive to read them? I hardly think so.

  57. Accents don’t freak me out. Blatant lies (as in Angie Dickinson is your live-in lover) do.

  58. Brian Burton 29 Sep 2009, 3:54pm

    Altana,
    I am a Vibrarorsexual and that’s no lie. I’m giving it up though, It makes my eyes water!

  59. I still don’t get the Angie Dickinson reference.

    I’m up to Chapter Twelve and haven’t found the incident yet that started this lively discussion.

  60. Rose, I vaguely remember hearing it, but assumed it was a joke. Look here for more:

    hXXp://www.livefastdieyoungbook.com/usjohnbarrowman.htm

    I think that’s what Altana’s referring to.

  61. Yes. I am catching on here. I just read that article. This must be the one somebody mentioned where he talks about Scott who somehow magically becomes a ‘girlfriend’. I also found some pages which list John as her live in lover from 1992 to 2003. Which is plain nonsense that doesn’t fit the facts at all. I don’t know where the heck it came from, but its rubbish. Now can we get back to the point of this thread, which is that the TV business can be peculiarly homophobic.

  62. Er – Rose, it’s NOT rubbish. He really did say those things. You’re in denial and you’re being insanely protective of him – hence some of the above comments.

  63. In the above mentioned article he only says he went out with her a few times and spent Thanksgiving at her place with a group of other people. That’s not the same thing as being a live in lover in a time frame – 1992-2003 in which he was mainly living and working in the UK.

    And, ok, you and Vince think I’m obsessive. Ok, fine. So be it. There are worst things to be. And after all, I DO know his shoe size. And yes, I bloody well will defend him from silly accusations and spiteful gripes about his accent. Both are unnecessary, small minded and mean.

    I’ll also defend myself against personal comments if I have to. But i actually thought this community aspired to rise above that sort of thing.

  64. Now I’m going back to reading the book, which so far comes across as an honest and open and amusing set of anecdotes about life in the public eye. By the way, 300 people with tickets to get into Borders bookshop for the event got their copies autographed in Cardiff this morning. I suppose they’re obsessive, too?

  65. Don’t be upset, Rose. Sometimes people get heated on here (understatement!). I have no idea where that story came from, so unless we know the facts then we shouldn’t judge John. There could be numerous explanations.

  66. I’m fine, Iris. Finished reading the book now, and there are some pertinent bits I should like to quote if we ever get back to the original subject matter. But I think I’ll start with an extract from a section entitled “Twelve things I’ve learned from my parents.”

    …..
    8. Speak up for yourself (especially if you have something to say)
    9. Speak up for other (especially if they can’t)

    Funnily enough, that’s all I’ve been doing on this thread. Does anyone actually have a problem with that?

  67. I wish he make up hi mind. Last time I heard that agent told him not to come out. Now it’s his ex-bosses.

  68. Why do so many people want him to stay in the closet?

  69. Ok, here is the actual story from the actual book that obsessive little me purchased from Amazon. It doesn’t clear very much up, however. Judging by the fact that his niece, Clare, is old enough to understand the conversation, I’m thinking this was in the past 10 years and brings us back to Central Park West, made in 2001, which was when the Al Weisal interview took place which seems to have been doctored to make it look as if he had a girlfriend, not a boyfriend. At that point, John was firmly an item with Scott. Those who knew him knew he was gay, so he was ‘out’ as far as they were concerned. But being ‘out’ to your friends and ‘out’ as a performer are two different things, and clearly he wanted to be ‘out’ to the general public as a gay personality and the producers didn’t want him to do that.

    ——————————–

    An experience I once had with the producers of a TV show is a good example of this. I was in my dressing room , watching movies and passing time with Clare, when one of the producers joined us with some notes for me about my performance.

    “John,” he said, after he’d checked off a couple of other points. “we wondered if you really wanted to reveal that you’re gay.”

    Whoa. Clare’s eyes widened and, when she saw my expression, she shifted a little to give me a wider berth. I stared at the producer for a very long, dark minute. Did he think that maybe I should have saved this detail for dinner conversation, in case, after pudding, I was suddenly caught humping the waiter?

    “I really hope I didn’t hear that coming out of your mouth,” I stated. “Because I’m not going back into the closet for anyone.”

    The incident was even more offensive because they sent a gay producers to discuss this with me, as if somehow this would ease the blow. I could tell he was terribly embarrassed. He should have been.

    “We think it might change how people feel about you,” he continued.

    “For Christ’s sake,” I yelled. “You’ve hired me to be a professional, not to have sex! Being a gay man has nothing to do with my abilities on this show.” I was even ore furious because, as I’ve stated, one of my explicit missions as an entertainer is to work to create a world where no one will ever make a statement like that to anyone who’s gay.

    “Who told you to say this?”

    He tried to back down, to soften the statement somehow, especially when he realised I was getting angrier. I also think he could see that Clare, all 5’3” of her, was rising up on her flip flops preparing for an attack. She was hissing ands spitting in the corner.

    “I’m not changing who I am for you, or anyone else,” I seethed, livid now. “I find it highly offensive that you as a gay man have said this to me. I don’t care who told you to day it. You should have stood up to whoever put you up to this. Grow some balls, man.”

    Later, after I’d calmed down and Clare had been contained, the producers apologised profusely, and we all moved on from the incident.

  70. oops. Central Park West is 1995/1996. Titans is 2001. But they seem pretty interchangeable as far as this story is concerned.

  71. Brian: I am Type 1 diabetic and I know the old chocolates were expensive tasteless rubbish that used to use saccharin. (God, this still sounds like John Barrowman) – Thornton’s uses exactly the same recipes as their normal stuff, but uses Aspartame, and it really is the business.

  72. Aspertame causes stomach ulcers. And anyway, I have no wish to eat any form of diabetic chocolate or any other chocolate. I am quite happy with my daily indulgence of John Barrowman, and I think you need to practice a little tolerance and admit I have every right to do so.

  73. Brian Burton 29 Sep 2009, 11:12pm

    RobN,
    There are too many questions even the wise cannot answer. Religion consoles some, atheists are unconsolable. So what is our first duty in life? To ourselves I have no doubt. For myself, I thought life would be a brilliant comedy, but as I get older, there is more tragedy than I can cope with.

  74. Rose: WHAT IS YOUR F_CKING PROBLEM!?
    I never said you couldn’t ‘indulge’, I merely pointed out that chocolate is not entirely ‘out of bounds’ to diabetics.

    Jesus H. Christ on a f_cking bike! I can’t say anything on here without some whinging little faggot, dyke or miserable bitch with a straight eye for the queer bloke taking pot-shots at me.
    Maybe you should try being a little tolerant to other people who are merely trying to be helpful.

    Oh, and I have every right to say that too.

  75. Well, yes, of course you can say what you like, if you really enjoy aligning yourself with people like Papa Phelps and the BNP who think free speech is an invitation to be obnoxious.

    I don’t have a problem. I am simply doing what I said several posts back:

    …..
    8. Speak up for yourself (especially if you have something to say)
    9. Speak up for others(especially if they can’t)

  76. “Maybe you should try being a little tolerant to other people who are merely trying to be helpful.”

    Are you serious???? Is this a joke??? Maybe you can take a look in a mirror, you hypocritical moron!

  77. I’m probably going to regret posting, but:
    1) regarding Angie Dickinson…is there any recording of him saying this? Someone writing a book or article can easily make an error when they’re putting down what someone else has said…read 15 articles by 15 reporters who were all at the same news conference- they’ll differ radically depending on the writer and editor’s own views. The same could easily have happened in this case.
    2) Mr Barrowman’s accents: both are legitimate. Glaswegian is native, American is acquired.
    3) I read about this in an interview he gave several years ago. it was one of the US shows: Titans or Central Park West. I believe he also got rid of an agent because he wanted him to downplay the fact that he’s gay.
    4) If you don’t like him, why bother reading the article and taking time to comment? I don’t go looking for things/articles that I don’t like, I look for things/articles I do like, as any normal person would.
    5) Someone said he only ‘came out” in 2004. Maybe to the general public, but the ones that count are family and friends…a person’s sexual orientation is absolutely no-one’s business unless they choose to share that info. If he came out to his family in his 20s, that’s when he came out, NOT 2004.

  78. Cathy, thanks for a sensible response this morning. I’ve had some thoughts on all of that. But its too early in the morning for that much typing yet. More later.

    George, thanks. But you’re probably falling on deaf ears.

  79. Even if John did say those things as printed in that interview – and we have no idea whether he did or not – he could just have been ‘playing along’ for whatever reason. He doesn’t specifically say that Angie was his girlfriend, but that’s the way people may have interpreted it. Maybe he thought that was easier than suddenly launching into a full explanation in a brief interview. I showed that interview to my American girlfriend and she didn’t seem surprised. Her response was that being gay was and is still ‘a big thing’ to some people in the US and you certainly couldn’t casually drop it into conversation.

    Even now there are so many US actors hiding, or being compelled to hide, their sexuality. It’s different to the UK. I still have to be reminded how different when I make a comment to her about some celebrity.

    Also, we all brush over things to some extent. If you bump into a friend you haven’t seen for a while and are unlikely to see again, you may choose not to inform them of your sexuality and if they ask a question indirectly pertaining to it just give an answer that’s not untrue, but which they’ll probably interpret in a way that you didn’t mean. It’s not lying, it’s just not giving extra information. I can think of people who don’t know my sexuality but that isn’t because I’ve deceived them. Anyway, I get annoyed with people assuming everyone’s straight – but that’s another subject :D

    Thank you for that extract, Rose.

  80. Is the Al Weisel interview the chief source of this weird story? Because I am working on a theory about what has happened here. But I am just wondering if there is any more to it than that? I’m ignoring the three or four biography pages about Angie Dickinson that clearly copied each other when they listed her husbands, boyfriends and significant others. They even copied the spelling mistakes.

    I’ve just chucked two workmen out of my house because when they came into my study, which has a fine collection of Doctor Who/Torchwood memorobilia on the shelves, (yes, I’m a sci fi geek, the usual suspects can laugh at that, too)one of them looked at my JB poster and book collection (all 2 of them) and asked how I could possibly like a ‘shirtlifter’ like that. I’m making an official complaint right now. Does it always seem like one step forward and two back when it comes to acceptance of gays in ‘mainstream’ society?

  81. Blimey! What a stupid and unnnecessary comment by that workman! I put it down to total ignorance and a macho need to re-assert one’s heterosexuality at every opportunity. What’s shocking is that people feel perfectly safe making casual homophobic comments whereas they wouldn’t be so keen to make racist comments now. There’s still a long way to go.

    I couldn’t find any other source of the Angie story other than Al Weisel interview but I only looked at a few pages that all seemed to quote that interview and I didn’t have time for a more thorough search.

  82. very stupid. And when I called the office they seemed to be having trouble understanding that homophobia is the same kind of offensive behaviour as racism.

    I’ve had a thorough search of the net, and the Al Wiesel interview DOES seem to be the source of it all as far as I can see. Perhaps Altana knows something else? If so, share the info because otherwise the available evidence is that it’s all nonsense.

    By the way, there’s a charming interview with John on Digital Spy today. The way he teases the interviewer at every turn I could almost imagine him making an off the cuff remark about being Angie Dickinson’s lover, or anyone else’s lover for that matter purely to get a rise out of the person conducting the interview. That’s not a lie, its hyperbole for dramatic or comic effect.

    hxxp://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/a179453/john-barrowman-talks-who-torchwood.html

  83. Well done Rose! If John is a “shirtlifter” he can lift mine anytime he likes(!) ;-) I must admit, I was loosing the thread of this discussion; thought it was about Captain Jack Harkness and not diabetic chocky..if John was Chocky he would have to be Galaxy, rich, smooth and tasty(oh erh Mrs!)

  84. Mike! Control yourself! :D I can’t stop laughing now!

    But education is good (speaks a sad teacher! :p):

    hXXp://www.diabetes.org.uk/en/About_us/News_Landing_Page/2002/2827/

    Rose, if the Al Weisel interview is the only source then that makes me very suspicious. John has a wicked sense of humour, after all. Thank you for the Digital Spy link – off to read that now :) As for the workman, a mention of the law in a confident voice usually produces an apology (from my limited experience). Good luck – even a ‘trivial’ remark shouldn’t be tolerated – it all allows homophobia to flourish.

  85. Ah, or ‘watch’ – even better! :D

  86. Brian Burton 30 Sep 2009, 7:52pm

    Iris and Rose,
    It is very interesting, reading all your prolific comments. I wonder what obsticles await us on this bumpy road of life?
    Shakespeare for October:

    The Jewel that we find, we stoop and take,
    because we see it; But what we do not see,
    we tread upon, and never think of it.

  87. or, as the lovely John says, when life hands you lemons, put them in a vodka tonic.

  88. Simon Murphy 1 Oct 2009, 12:04am

    RobN: “I am Type 1 diabetic”

    Really? So am I. That diabetic chocolate is crap (literally as it gives you the runs if you eat too much). Just give yourself a couple of extra units of Novorapid and have a Twix. It’s much tastier. Were you having a hypo when you voted BNP ;)

    John Barrowman has the same effect on me as diabetic chocolate.

  89. Simon Murphy 1 Oct 2009, 12:07am

    And Rose – are you sure you are not a John Barrowman alias trying to sneakily promote your own book. You sound vaguely similar to a teenage boyband fan.

  90. I sound like a teenager? hmm. I’m old enough to take that as a compliment, even though it was meant as an insult. Do you have anything useful to say about the news article? Or is being rude to me your idea of debate?

  91. Simon: I knew that. You mentioned it before. As I stated, most diabetic chocolate is of the Barrowman variety (Sickly, overpowering and gives you the squits), but the Thornton’s stuff is totally FAB. Please do yourself a favour next time you want to feel good about yourself, or Labour win an election, (whichever comes sooner. Don’t hold your breath) ;)

    http://tinyurl.com/yanxuam

  92. You know, I think this chocolate theme has actually been done to death at this point. Do you two want to, perhaps, change the record? You are very boring.

  93. For goodness sake. How many of us haven’t at some point wished that the utterly vile John Barrowman hadn’t stayed firmly in a locked cupboard to which the key had been thrown away?

    Whatever, this must have happened almost twenty years ago and I fail to see the relevance of it today. It must be a very slow day on the gay news front.

    If that is the most exciting thing he has got to say in his book, then it must be as dull as stagnant ditch water.

  94. Yes, it was a slow news day when this was originally posted. It was put together by one of the Pink News staff writers who picked up on the fact that a gay celebrity had written a book that was published this week. That’s what journalists do. She focussed on an extract that dealt with a particular injustice against the said gay celebrity that he felt strongly about and which she thought was of interest to the readers of Pink News. That’s how journalism works.

    Today isn’t a slow news day. There is that hugely outrageous statement from the Vatican and several other very serious issues that are far more important than arguing about chocolate and stating your dislike for celebrities, and as this discussion has run its course it would be better if people went and looked at those issues, instead.

    But, for the record, no, it didn’t happen 20 years ago. Having read the full section, I think it happened in 2001 during the filming of Titans. And even if you don’t like John Barrowman, for whatever reason, surely anyone reading a news site specifically aimed at LGBT people must have some feelings about TV producers trying to make Gay performers hide their true nature so as not to upset the ratings apple cart, and the fact that ‘coming out’ is professional suicide in Hollywood, as was stated quite a few posts back. Even if you hate his guts, don’t you think he has a right to highlight that issue?

    And, actually, there is a lot more in the book than that. But it really wouldn’t appeal to you, Mike, or you, Vince, RobN, Altana and the rest. It was written for people who are fans or those who are prepared to meet him half way. Those who hate him aren’t going to find anything of interest in it. It’s just a man with an eclectic sense of humour talking mostly about the past three years of his life, his family, his work, in a laid back way. Nothing for you at all. So save your money for something else. Nobody is forcing you to read it, or watch anything he is in on TV or stage.

  95. Brian Burton 1 Oct 2009, 5:40pm

    Mark,
    Don’t be a Silly-Billy, you silly-billy. We are all happy-clappy for John Barrowmam. Now Mark…Sing along with me…Happy-clappy Johnny, Johnny B…Happy-clappy, Johnny, Johnny B. We all adore our Johnny, Johnny B…. Mark should kiss Johnny’s asstracan coat, for Mark’s a silly Billy Goat. Dum diddly dum dum, dum dum!

  96. Brian Burton 1 Oct 2009, 5:42pm

    Rose, don’t dare say a word..He! He!

  97. Nothing to add except I meant Mark, not Mike in my last post!

  98. But, for the record, no, it didn’t happen 20 years ago. Having read the full section, I think it happened in 2001 during the filming of Titans.

    versus

    he said he was warned early in his career

    Well will someone please make their mind up. 2001 is hardly “early in his career”. Rose fails yet again.

  99. I agree, that isn’t early in his career. If you scroll back to comment 69, it doesn’t SAY that it was early in his career in his version of things. The Pink News journalist said that. His niece, Clare, was present at the incident and Titans in 2001 is just about when she was old enough to have been a witness to a conversation like that. She was in her teens then. So that is my guess about when it happened having done the maths. If you want a better one, then John, his sister who co-wrote the book, or his niece will have to put some input in!

    And what do you mean ‘Rose fails yet again’ apart from getting Mike and Mark confused and mistaking naff soaps for sitcoms I haven’t got any verifiable facts wrong. The Angie Dickinson farce is not a verifiable fact!

  100. Well you got the date of Titans wrong – and that is verifiable, dear – unless it was shown before it was even produced ;)

    Also, I do have a feeling that you are taking Miss Barrowman’s words a little too literally .. unless that is you actually want us to believe his description of the poor little girl actually being ill-mannered enough to be “hissing and spitting in the corner”.

    x

  101. Titans was 2000-2001 according to IMDB.com, which usually gets things like that right.

    ‘Hissing and spitting in the corner’ is most likely an example of hyperbole for dramatic effect, and of JB’s eclectic sense of humour.

  102. Brian Burton 1 Oct 2009, 11:11pm

    Rose, D’you know what…?
    Mark, Simon Murphy, RobN and anyone else who dose not love our Lovely JB…..ARE PARTY POOPERS!

  103. And the party is in Jean Paul’s closet, so we don’t want anyone pooping on it!

  104. Brian Burton 2 Oct 2009, 8:58am

    Rose,
    Our emotions do lead us astray and that can give the advantage to whoever we are persuing…but is’nt it fun all the same? The only way to get rid of temtation is to yeald to it! The trouble is, the worst of having a romance of any kind, leaves you feeling unromantic. A charismatic young girl of sweet sixteen is taking a morning service in our Church next Sunday. It’s to try and tempt young people in. I’m looking forward to it.

  105. I totally agree, Brian. As long as the temptation isn’t against the law of the land!

    And what a lovely description “A charismatic girl of sweet sixteen”. Better than, as I was called further back in this thread, “miserable bitch with a straight eye for the queer bloke”. Although I am thinking of getting that on a t.shirt in time for John’s next concert tour. I’m sure he’ll see the funny side.

  106. Brian Burton 2 Oct 2009, 4:33pm

    Rose,
    “Miserable bitch with a straight eye for the queer bloke,” will make a splendid T-shirt. But don’t make it an “indecent proposal.” I hope your ‘Torchwood Star’ shines on you!

  107. Oh, indeed, Brian! Don’t worry. John already has the perfect partner in the long-suffering and lovely Scott. Nobody would want to get between that.

  108. Brian: Well go get some XXXXL shirts made up and you can sell them to all the bossy dykes that hang out at Doctor Who conventions.

  109. Well, that will save me the trouble!

    One question, RobN. Since you hang out in a gay website, why are you so unpleasant to gay people? Are you one of those homophobic gays I read about elsewhere in the site or are you a straight who likes to pick on gays? Just so I know. Perhaps everyone else already figured this out, but I must have missed it.

  110. Rose: I don’t single out anyone in particular. I am an equal opportunities despiser, and dislike everyone the same.
    It just so happens that most of the people on here are gay, AND happen to be complete morons, so one can understand why I might be seen to be homophobic.

    For the record, one could say technically I am gay, but that infers I am attracted to men, which I am not.

  111. Well, as long as we all know where we stand.

  112. Brian Burton 4 Oct 2009, 9:29pm

    Rose,
    Robin is sectetly in love with me. And I have grown to love secrecy. People don’t understand secret Love Rose, It reminds me of Doris Day in Calamity Jane. One day, RobN and I will Fly away on gosimer wings. If we fly over Mount Fuji I’ll leave him on top.

  113. Oh, is that what it is, Brian! Explains everything.

  114. Brian Burton 5 Oct 2009, 8:00am

    Rose, My little book of Shakespeare verse for October!

    Loves not Times fool, though rosy lips and cheeks,
    whithin his bending sickle’s compass come;
    Love alters not with his brief houres and weeks.

  115. Too right John B. I’d be angry too.

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