I know there was somweone posting on here who was going to the last meeting? Any news on how that went?
That opinion piece in the Torygraph (from a straight white man, no less) has no factual basis whatsoever and is simply part of the paper’s ongoing agenda to undermine multiculturalism. It’s all there in the headline.
And Moss, if by posting that link you’re trying to suggest there’s a racial motive to the attacks on Hackney Road, would you mind sharing the evidence with us?
That article that Moss posted is indeed a pile of crap. Muslims and “sections” of the black community? “Sections” of every community hate us, what’s with the super-special focus on black people? Oh right, it’s just Ed West trying to be “controversial”. His claims that the gay rights movement has achieved all its aims and that homosexuality is now accepted by the native white population are similarly laughable.
There is most definitely a big homophobia problem with immigrant populations from less accepting cultures, but we can’t just tar everyone with the same brush. I myself have some very good friends who immigrated from abroad (some even Muslims – yep, Christianity isn’t the only religion that can have the odd “normal” believer). Somewhere between the ludicrous extremes of kicking out all non-natives and submitting ourselves to Islamic rule there is a solution. Rabble-rousing controversy-jockeys like Ed West help nobody.
E West’s notion of the “Rainbow Alliance” (see link in first post) is pretty blinkered. I can’t think of any culture of ‘pinko’ Alliance like that since the heady days of 1965-74.
Nobody’s been talking in Rainbow Alliance terms recently excpet for a brief moment when Arch Bishop Desmond Tutu made reference to the effects of the new post-apartheid constitution in South Africa.
Back to the issue- the pub in question is located near housing estates that house many bangladeshi families with strong and long term ties the area. There has also been an increase in African decent populations a significant number of which seek support as new arrivals in the UK from very strong fundamentalist Christian communities.
Previously the local islamic males who grew up on the streets around this area were noted for their lack of violence, drug taking and drinking. Often passive, quiet and obedient, they differ strongly from a new generation of angry young muslim men raised in breakaway do-it-yourself extremist islamic factions which allow them to consider the use of violence within their youth and question the choices of their more traditional parents and the leaders at the main local mosques.
Taking action is seen as a tangible expression of their new found independence. The fact that it violates national law and threatens both the rights and safety of other people shows just how insular these local tight-nit, independent and highly resourceful communities can be when at their worst.
Further, for decades these self same men have been subject to and observed the National Front and the BNP target their area in much the same way and using much the same kind of methods without any intervention by local police. Until the trendification of nearby Brick Lane, it was always common to see the far right distributing leaflets and recruiting around key landmarks.
If a Rainbow Alliance is needed in this context, then it would be a matter of preserving the National democratic rights for all without either faction intruding beyond law on the other. Under the circumstance this is a serious matter and nothing to do with cynical rightwing visions of rainbows at all.
This was always destined to reach a head as the Muslim population of Bethnal Green became the predominant ethnic community. As soon as a once marginalized community reaches a critical mass it feels entitled to start demanding that local laws are changed to suit its customs and it starts to feel more bullish about riding roughshod over other populations it disapproves of. You cannot blame the Muslims because it is their way and instinct to attack non-Muslims. Our government is to blame for allowing things to get to this knife edge; gay bashing today, race riots tomorrow… There is no way fundamental Muslims will ever bat for Britain. They are a law unto themselves and we must now suffer the consequences.
That’s certainly one theory Rob, on the other hand we could ensure that the authorities (in this case the local authority and the police), use legislation and the powers at their disposal to address this issue.
The government has an agenda on crime and anti-social behaviour at this level (whilst turning a blind eye to it in their own party it seems) and the Met’s implementation procedures are quite clear.
There obviously is a reason why it has not kicked in the area and its apparent that the response from both the police and the local authority has not been in line with published policy.
I don’t live in the area or frequent any of the bars in the area, but would love to go along to the meeting to here what has gone wrong.
One of my main issues with the government devolving the level of control it has down to a local level is that it is very easily corruptible by groups or individuals with an issue – this is the weakness that the gay community needs to utilise
Safer Neighbourhood Teams (SNT) answer to the local community through the SNT Ward Panel, made up of local residents, elected councillors and a few other interested parties. Every moth or six weeks the panel is supposed to meet and determine tasks for the SNT to focus on. This is where the gay community needs to get in and focus the SNT on the issue. Its easy enough to load up the SNT with friendly faces – anyone can go. The local councillors need to here the concerns at the Ward Panel meetings and again the panel can officially request actions by the councillors. The SNT should then link in with the local authority and their anti-social behaviour unit to task further resource at the problem. If there are wardens in borough this process should, also influence their tasking
As part of feedback, if things don’t improve, the SNT can request support from other areas of the local police (robbery squad for example), and request the attendance, comment and feedback from more senior officers. Local councillors can also be held to account at those meetings for their actions or inactions in relations to requests made by the Ward Panel.
The Ward Panel is a valuable tool for any section of the community that wants to manipulate the police for its won purposes and that is exactly what the gay community needs to start doing here. It is the starting point for making the local police accountable, the local authority accountable and local councillors accountable. It does work (if ‘work’ is the right word) as long as people understand the extend of the use (or abuse) that can make of it.
Similarly with the local authority can be used to further address the problem. Hackney Homes tenancy agreement cites involvement in any criminal activity as a breach of tenancy. It also sets out quite clearly is stance in regarding anti-social behaviour and hate crime. These need to be followed up whenever an incident occurs. The process usually starts slowly, but they can issue acceptable behaviour contracts (which are useless almost), and ASBOs (which have a bad press, but can and often do involve the most Draconian conditions on the recipient).
Most importantly people need to be prepared to follow through with a prosecution whenever an incident occurs. Every time someone is involved in an attack and does not face prosecution there are instilled with more confidence to carry out further attacked. Everyone needs to be behind supporting the victims of attack to give evidence in court. Again here the local authority and police can support this with a raft of measures and for victims living locally, all that can be done to support and protect witnesses needs to be done – extra patrols outside the witness’ home, escorts to and from court, cctv, address and telephone marked as at risk to ensure immediate response for emergency calls, additional security provided on doors and windows, and loads more
Can this article be re-written? – it is like a news report from 1970s East Germany or Soviet Russia – inconvenient truths effortlessly airbrushed out – this is not journalism.
The reality – the gay community is under attack in the East End from viscious muslim youth motivated by prejudice and hatred who wish to drive out any gay Londoner (of whatever colour – white, black or brown) first from living or socialising in these districts and ultimately from this city and this nation. They wish to conquer our liberal western democratic society and replace it with a fundamentalist Islamic state – attacks like these are only the beginning. We have very short memories – in the lifetimes of our grandparents, in the 1930s, liberal cities like Berlin with vibrant gay societies lost all their freedoms within a decade by dark forces of repression. It will take longer here but attacks like this mark the beginning of this process.
As a community can we please have honest reporting of the real issue instead of articles that pussy-foot around this elephant in the room (‘youths’ indeed – its time we all woke up from such wishy washy wooly-minded complacency) which is already threatening our safety and well-being and could ultimately destroy our freedom which most of us take for granted here.
Actually I think you’ll find its stems from fairly typical antisocial behaviour that has gone unchecked for too long, resulting in far more extreme behaviour and incidents than is normal.
It is part of the adolescent growth process to seek to identify boundaries and to test how far they can be pushed. Without those boundaries being identified and sufficiently policed they are stretched and distorted.
Because of cultural and religious beliefs there may well be little input from the home to guide young people and it would appear that success has been made in providing sufficient guidance outside the home.
It is invariably more difficult to introduce consequences for actions when they have seemingly been absent for some time but acceptable behaviour contracts, ASBOs, dispersal orders and section 60 notices would start to make it clear to the entire community.
It is obviously more difficult to introduce these at a late stage but sufficiently policed they can be effective.
oops, meant to say, ‘it would appear that NO success has been made’
I think Rob has it in a nutshell, and SMC has reinforced it. The problem lies in the fact that ‘political correctness’ has supported maqny weak communities in growing, but now they are becoming such a force to be reckoned with that they are now taking the laws designed to protect them and beating us around the head with the self-same legislation. They feel they can freely march into an area, DEMAND the changes they want, and should anyone complain, they then claim WE are being racist because they are not getting what they want.
The writing is on the wall. British people are very easy going, accepting types, (probably too accepting), but there is a point where they say “enough is enough”. I can guarantee there are race riots coming and a full-on Crusade not far behind unless moderate Muslims take responsibility for the extremists in their community and curtail their actions.
No RobN, you have completely misrepresented what I have said. Those laws are there to protect everybody in a broad spectrum of circumstances, and we are where we are because, for reasons as yet unclear, they have not been properly implimented in a timely manner.
I’m not buying into your zenophobic rivers of blood crap at all
SMC: That’s the problem. Everyone sees Enoch Powell’s speech as a racist rant with no relevancy. I just think he maybe got his timing wrong. It’s not “if”, it’s “when”. Ignore it at your peril.
Just remember the “political correctness” you and so many others rant over gave gay people many of the rights they have today!! It it wasn’t for being PC we’d still be viewed as a disorder – play to the right wing agenda at your peril – the right know exactly what they’d do with you and I if ever in power (dont be blind or ignorant to history.
Yes, I suppose you’re right RobN – we should maybe think about kicking out anyone of Roman descent, or anyone of that pesky Anglo Saxon origin before they ruin the culture of this country.