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Ukrainian church brands Elton John ‘a sinner’

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  1. Well done Ukrainian Church! Honesty is the best policy. Other wishy-washy churches have to follow the example.

  2. Stewart Cowan 16 Sep 2009, 12:15pm

    He should have had children when he was married (to his wife). That’s the place for children.

  3. A couple of days ago the Ukrainian Government announced that Elton John was too old to adopt so this pronouncement by the church is entirely redundant.

    Other than to prove that they are hiding behind their ‘religious belief’ to show their bigotry, hatred and lack of understanding of the human condition.

    I am sure Jesus would not have made such a ridiculous pronouncement, God can’t be too happy with all the nonsense that these bigots spout in his name.

    Keep it up Alesha, before too long you’ll be the only person in the pews of your particular church, is that is how you think they should be preaching. Perhaps you think that Westboro Baptist Church is a shining example of a non-wishy washy church.

    It’s no wonder than church membership has been falling. As soon as they get back to the message of love for all, which let’s face it calling somebody a sinner with no justification, it will keep happening.

  4. Another example of groups of people using there religion to try justify there own homophobia and bigotry. There’s so much wrong with this Father Georgy Guluaves comment ranging from claiming to know who a god would bless (when there’s not even evidence for this gods existence), to insinuating families are only natural when they have biological children.
    Well for this guys information there are plenty of churches that bless same sex unions and the children of these couples. Anyway according to the bible everyone’s a sinner , so by his logic no one should adopt.

  5. “Unlike people who are blessed by God to create natural families…”

    So infertile couples shouldn’t adopt because God hasn’t blessed them with children?

    And how “dare” LGBT people adopt children, eh? Far better to leave them in an orphanage, right? The fact that LGBT people are more likely than straight people to adopt children whom others won’t seems to have escaped this man. Oh, but I forgot – they’re only *pretending* to have good intentions *rolls eyes*

    Once again – people who show an obsessive interest in what other people do in the bedroom only betray their own sexual insecurities.

    And, Stewart Cowan – you’d have preferred that Elton, a gay man, have children with his wife even though that would have been – and I mean this as no judgement on either of them – utterly dishonest?

  6. John (Derbyshire) 16 Sep 2009, 1:04pm

    Yeah-people like Sharon Matthews – and baby Peter`s mum !!
    Were they “blessed to have children” just cause theyre sraights?

  7. Stewart – why? the marriage didn’t work plus hetero couples aren’t always the best for raising kid!

  8. Like its not a sin when the “natural” (but often dys-functional) parents bring children into the world but don’t bother parenting them, resulting in delinquent young criminals or worse.

    At the end of the day, the orthodox church spews nothing but vitriolic bile and hatred. No wonder the numbers of church-attendees is rapidly withering away. It won’t be long before they’re extinct, just like the dinosaurs they are.

  9. Comment 2 is the best one! Well said Stewart.

  10. Ah, Alesha and Stewart again. How delightful to have your insipid voices back into this debate, and with such insightful comments too! Where do you get them all? Probably the bottom of a bottle of gin in Stewart’s case.

    Actually, Steward, no study, at least no study recognised by science, shows that children fair better with opposite sex parents than seam sex parents. And spouting a few bible quotes about your bigotry wont really change that reality one little bit, now will it?

    Let me clarify with a recent study, a scientific one, not a pile of dog crap by NARTH:

    Ellen C. Perrin, MD, professor of paediatrics at Tufts University School of Medicine in Boston, findings demonstrated at the American Academy of Paediatrics Conference and Exhibition, Oct 2005:-

    Researchers looked at information gleaned from 15 studies on more than 500 children, evaluating possible stigma, teasing and social isolation, adjustment and self-esteem, opposite gender role models, sexual orientation, and strengths.

    Studies from 1981 to 1994, including 260 children reared by either heterosexual mothers or same-sex mothers after divorce, found no differences in intelligence, type or prevalence of psychiatric disorders, self-esteem, well-being, peer relationships, couple relationships, or parental stress.

    “Some studies showed that single heterosexual parents’ children have more difficulties than children who have parents of the same sex,” Perrin says. “They did better in discipline, self-esteem, and had less psychosocial difficulties at home and at school.”

    Another study of 37 children of 27 divorced lesbian mothers and a similar number of children of heterosexual mothers found no differences in behaviour, adjustment, gender identity, and peer relationships.

    And what do you have Stewart, Leviticus 18:22? Yeah, stunning argument there.

    And Alesha, you’re just a religious idiot. I’m sorry, but you say noting of substance. Its truly a wonder that you can use that computer of yours. You’re (thankfully) a dying breed of religious nut too.

  11. Christina Engela 16 Sep 2009, 1:39pm

    Elton John shouldn’t be allowed to adopt because he is a “sinner” – okay, so then by that reasoning nobody should be allowed to adopt. Or are straights supposedly above “sin” simply because they are straight? Oops.

    What a bunch of hypocrites.

  12. Yes, Christina Engela. Its sad that a child is deemed better off in a orphanage than with a family??? And especially in the Ukraine, these “orphanages” are nothing short of hell-holes.

  13. Elton is a “singer” not a “sinner”(!) Why don’t this outdated and bigoted bunch of so called christians p**s of!

  14. Robert, ex-pat Brit 16 Sep 2009, 1:59pm

    Amazing how these right wing shills come out of the wood work to vent on a gay website. These are the same idiots who use that worn out mantra…marriage is for procreation. I wonder how they regard straights who deliberately opt not to reproduce or those who can’t? Ban them from marrying I suppose?

  15. Bishop Ioan 16 Sep 2009, 3:35pm

    I find that interesting too, Robert. The world must be such a garden that they have time to come here and harass GLBTQ folk.

    I was in the Orthodox Church for many years and a more hateful, mean-spirited, women-hating, homophobic lot I have yet to meet elsewhere! Oh and their pedophile monk/priest problem is every bit as bad as that of the Roman Church (just google “Christ of the Hills Monastery”).

    Alesha and Cowan, I suggest you go home and work out YOUR OWN salvation “in fear and trembling.” Nobody here cares what you think.

  16. Is this 12th. century backwater wanting to join the EU?

    Wonder where the biggest bribes will come from; from those who want it in or from those who don’t.
    Its very name, u kraj (oo-cry) means, when translated from the parent Slav, ‘outside’ -the (country) away from -on the other side of the border, especially in relation to Poland.

    It will have to change its ‘outlandish’ – ness in more than this, if it is to succeed in its bid to join the EU…unless the prawoslawie (cerkiew)(orthodox) comes up with a big enough bung to keep it out.

    Its all politics, religion, anyway, innit…?
    Politics…and dough…. in fancy dress.

    Nowt to do wi’ owt that Jesus talked about.
    He didn’t ponce around in marble halls, from what I have read, in golden robes and silken hats or sit with the nobs.

    His daily companions were the poor, the dispossessed, prostitutes, scum-bags; He’d have been very at home here in Salford among all the druggies and shoppies (shop-lifters).

    Nah!
    Keep religion..!

    Keith.
    SALFORD.

  17. The funniest part of it all for me is that this announcement comes from a church that allowed it’s pedophile priests to put their willies up little boys bums for decades. Who really are the sinners?? Long-term loving couples or disgusting pedophile priests!!

  18. According to the concept of Orignal Sin, EVERYONE is born a sinner. So nobody should be allowed to adopt or do anything else by the values of Alesha, Stewart and the Ukrainean Church. By the way, EVERYONE includes Alesha and Stewart, so the two of them can get down off their pulpit.

    Once, just once, can somebody from a religious community say something that reflects the God of Love I believe in, and promote tolerance, acceptance and welcoming for everyone in the LGBT community. It saddens me that so many people commenting on these pages feel alienated from religion because of these hard and unforgiving attitudes from people who are supposed to be the exact opposite.

  19. Jean-Paul Bentham 16 Sep 2009, 5:41pm

    Sin, is it?

    Let’s talk about sin for a minute, shall we?

    Sin cannot enter the presence of God, right? Right??

    Ever read the Book of Job? Here in the OT is a scenario where God Na dSatan are actually talking to each other. Satan is Sin personified, right? Right??

    So, tell me this. If sin cannot enter the presence of God and Satan is sin…then how exactly are God and Satan communicating?

    And again, When Jesus spent 40 days in the desert, Satan appeared to Jesus to tempt him, right? Right??

    So if Jesus is God and Satan is sin; how exactly were Jesus and Satan communicating?

    Finally, can sin enter the presence of God, or not? Dah.

  20. Rose – I think you have just said it! And it sounds just as significant coming from you, rather than anyone else. Thank you. You don’t need to know that others feel the same way as you to give your view more license – believe it because you speak from a place of love.

  21. Richard, thanks for that. I’ve felt I wanted to say that here on these comment pages for a while.

    Jean-Paul, you’ve lost me there. I’m a pretty basic theologist. So I’ll quit while I’m ahead.

  22. Jean-Paul Bentham 16 Sep 2009, 11:42pm

    Hi Rose:

    Sorry if I confused you. Mine was an attempt to discredit the entire concept of original sin, which is something St. Augustine dreamed up, right?

    In other words, the orthodox church is full of beans and has no business interfering in the politics of the Ukraine, even less in calling anyone a sinner who bacically is doing the morally right thing, e.g. Sir Elton John.

    Yea, the French have a strange twist on things, haha!

  23. 21stCenturySpirituality 17 Sep 2009, 12:22am

    Dear Stewart Cowan & Alesha,

    In response to the views you regularly express on this site I would to bring your attention to the following videos which I have placed in the video archives of this site. To watch them you need to register as a member and then be signed in. Then, click on the pink box marked videos. You will find 36 videos called ‘Tough Questions For Christians’. Also relevant to critisizing the views you express here are other videos I have placed there. These include ‘Sam Harris at Idea CIty ’05’, ‘God in the 21st Century: Bishop John Shelby Spong at UO’, ‘Neale Donald Walsch Discusses The Emotion Of Fear’, ‘What tHe BLeeP Do wE (k)now? Part 6 “God & Religion”‘, and also ‘Truth about Religion Part 1 of 3′, ‘Truth about Religion 2 of 3′, ‘Truth about Religion Part 3 of 3′.

    Please respond to the critisms of your views that this material raises. Also consider the questions and criticisms of your beliefs and the sentiments you express on this site raised by the following books:

    What The Bible Really Says About Homosexuality – Daniel A Helmimiak PhD

    Exchanging The Truth Of God For A Lie: One Man’s Spiritual Journey To Find The Truth About Homosexuality And Same-Sex Partnerships – Jeremy Marks

    Anything But Straight: Unmasking the Scandals and Lies Behind the Ex-gay Myth – Wayne R. Besen

    The Church And The Homosexual – John J McNeill SJ

    The Marriage Of Likeness: Same Sex Unions In Pre-Modern Europe – John Boswell

    From Queer To Eternity: Spirituality In The Lives Of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgendered People – Peter Sweasey

    50 Facts That Should Change The World – Jessica Williams

    Letter To A Christian Nation – Sam Harris

    The Journey Guide: A Course In Mind Expansion

    Pagans & Christians: The Personal Spiritual Experience – Gus Dizerega Phd

    What The Bible Really Teaches: A Challenge To Fundamentalists – Keith Ward

    Rescuing The Bible From Fundamentalism – John Shelby Spong

    Why Christianity Must Change Or Die – John Shelby Spong

    Christian Perspectives On Sexuality & Gender – Adrian Thatcher & Elizabeth Stuart

    Churches That Abuse – Ronald M Enroth

    Twisted Scriptures: Breaking Free From Churches That Abuse – Mary Alice Chrnalogar

    Charismania: When Christian Fundamentalism Goes Wrong – Roland Howard

    Also the following film/DVD which can also be viewed in nine parts on youtube:
    The Bible Told Me So

    Also, Stewart & Alesha, you’ll find the websites of the following organisations raise further questions about your position. We cant put web addresses in these boxes so you’ll have to figure it out for yourself but check out the websites for:

    Accepting Evangelicals

    Changing Attitude

    Soulforce

    ReligiousTolerance

    When you’ve trawled through all that lot, I reckon it should realisticly take you a minimum of 6 months if you do it properly, then come back and say with 100 percent conviction what your saying now.

  24. Vo Dong Cung 17 Sep 2009, 12:55am

    Only paedophilia priests are not sinner because they still are allowed to be priest (http://www.wmtw.com/news/20493344/detail.html)

  25. john sharp 17 Sep 2009, 3:15am

    i am suprized anyone can give credit to a religion
    after all they are based on farie tales and lies
    who are they to jugde humans ?
    stop religious lies now …. there are no gods

  26. Jean-Paul Bentham 17 Sep 2009, 3:59am

    21stCenturySpirituality:

    Speaking as someone who is presently more than half way through your videos, I would highhly recommend them to one and all.

    Hey, you never told me you had added Helminiak & MacNeill who were both guest speakers at the Annual Convention of DignityUSA in San Francisco at the end of June recently.

    Also, I have read both od Boswell’s scholarly works. Impressive research there by someone so young, a Harvard graduate I believe.

    Gros merci.

  27. Dear Alesha and Stewart: I think someone ought to tell you that there are currently 6 billion, 700 million people on the planet. Taken in that light, your opinions carry very little weight, and they certainly no more than mine.

  28. Eagle Ashcroft 17 Sep 2009, 6:42am

    Hey don’t these Soviet Commie has-beens know Elton John is nobility? He is a knight, knighted by the Queen of England and to refuse an English knight to adopt one of their orphans is an insult to the British Crown and an insult to many Americans who respect the British nobility. Therefore these Soviet Commies seem to be back in the Cold War with the west. Perhaps both England and the USA should put them on their sh-t list as abusive dictatorships and cut all ties to their country. Insulting a British Knight does not set well with me and now I’ll have to write another nasty letter to their embassy as well and tell them to get out of America as we don’t want their commie asses over here.

  29. I am sorry that Elton and David didn’t win this time. I think they will make excellent parents and will provide a wonderful home for any children they adopt. Perhaps they should try some English orphans and cock-a-snoot at the Ukranians

  30. 21stCenturySpirituality 17 Sep 2009, 10:29am

    Thank you Jean Paul. All the books I mentioned in comment 23 are available to borrow from the library I run at Edmund Kell Unitarian Church on Bellevue Road in Southampton. Not got any videos from John J McNeil or Daniel A Helmimiak but I’ll pop onto youtube and see what I can find.

  31. Father Georgy Gulyaev might do better to consider that his religion believes that “All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” [Romans 3 v23] BEFORE he glibly brands others as ‘sinners’!

  32. #1 & #2

    Alan TURING…a master Code breaker…?
    He’s not a patch on me..!

    Alesha is Mrs. Stephen Cowan.

    With a bit more research, I might even uncover that they’re one and the same…a sort of Jewish Trinity; not 3-in-1 but 2-in-1; a sort of ‘b-o-g-o-f’..
    Yet more research and I think we’d come up with the couple being Tickle-Splatherer, RealityCheck, Uncle Tom Knob’ead and All…!
    Aaaaaalllllllll rolled into one..

    Keith.

  33. O dear . . . over run with “Christian Fundamentalist Crackpots” again.

    One thing in their favour – they are always:

    Persistant
    Predicatable
    and spouting the usual rhetoric again and again on
    Pink News

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