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Belfast church allowed judicial review on ‘homophobic’ ads

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  1. Sorry but the rights of Sandown Free Presbyterian Church to express their rights, do not trump the rights of the reset of decent society.

    And please using the line “loving the sinner and hating the sin” as an excuse for being a bigoted is so old now get a new one.

  2. Pumpkin Pie 11 Sep 2009, 3:27pm

    loving the sinner and hating the sin

    The Christian version of “I can’t be a homophobe, I have a gay cousin”. :p

  3. Just because certain words appear in the Bible doesn’t mean you can put them on advertising hoarding out of context and/or alongside their own vile words of hatred that could incite hatred and even violence in others. Would other words from Deuteronomy be allowed in an such advert against non-believers?

    “My arrows will drip with blood from those who were killed and taken captive. My sword will cut off the heads of the enemy who vowed to fight.”

    No way!!

  4. Stewart Cowan 11 Sep 2009, 7:09pm

    I believe the advertisement was to encourage people to turn from their sin and repent. What could be hateful about that?

  5. at number 4 for a start there is nothing sinful about beng gay 2ndly useing words to call a group of peeople vile preverts and so forth thats what hateful 3rdly if you think being gay is a sin then i say being being straight a sin a person can not help the way they are born gay or not it does not matter we are all human and there for equals Bide within the Law you must, in perfect Love and perfect Trust. Live you must and let to live, fairly take and fairly give. An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will

  6. Dear Stewart: you’re right, hateful might be the wrong choice of word. However some people use the bible selectively; without realizing that we didn’t know about different sexualities back in biblical times. (It’s arguable we knew about different sexualities as late as a hundred years ago). Knowing that there are different sexualities now as we do, to call what one group is doing a sin because they are different than you, is irrational and…yes, can BECOME…hateful. Nature creates gay people for a reason, and to take on nature seems to me at the very least, an exercise in futility. In the end Christianity will give itself a bad name if it doesn’t get in step with the times. No church can freeze-frame knowledge.

  7. Stewart Cowan 12 Sep 2009, 2:07am

    Edward, different sexualities have been around for millennia. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah!?

    Brian R, sexual immorality is sinful. I wonder what constitutes sexual immorality in your view. Plus, I think they were referring to the behaviour as vile, rather than the individuals.

  8. Deluded Stewart is still trying… and he’ll end up as frustrated as his deluded peers.

  9. douglas in canada 12 Sep 2009, 2:59am

    Well, I guess we can allow their hatred, as long as they read the WHOLE bible and follow it’s teachings. Check out I Timothy 2, starting at verse 8. Women can’t wear gold or pearls, or have braided hair, have to learn in silence, and are not allowed to teach men!
    Or how about this from Psalm 137: “Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!”
    Nothing so nice as a loving believer! Yeah, right.
    Remember when christians were pissed off that people could get a divorce? and then marry a divorcee? or that you could marry someone from another race? or that you could have children without being married, and the kids would still turn out ok? This is just their new opportunity to pick on someone else. Could these be the tactics of people in a ship that’s going down? And for the record, Sodom and Gomorrah’s sin was INHOSPITALITY. If only christian’s would take the time to read their own book. Even conservative christian scholars these days will acknowledge that S&G has little or nothing to do with homosexuality. Besides, that story is about guys who want to commit rape. yes, RAPE. hardly consensual sex, or a healthy relationship.

  10. “This is just their new opportunity to pick on someone else.”

    Spot on, douglas in canada. Some Christians just love having somebody to hate. To me that speaks volumes about their own insecurity.

    Presumably this church will also be asking for permission to put the sections about slavery, killing disobedient children, etc etc in their next ad? Or do they just like to pick and choose the bits that reinforce their own prejudices?

  11. douglas in canada 12 Sep 2009, 6:22pm

    It’s hard for me, because I was raised in a well-meaning christian environment, and hate was NOT pushed. We still leaned conservative, though, so I know a little bit how they think. And I still think according to the patterns that were established, even though I have moved way past their limitations.
    Questions come to mind, like: “If your God is still around, why hasn’t anything acceptable been written in the last 2000 years?” and “If there were no such thing as heaven or hell or eternal life, would you still be a christian?” and “So, you use the bible as a science textbook when it comes to the beginning of the world. Why don’t you use it when it comes to medical science? Why are those, who refute science’s claims about how it all started, the same people who are first in line to demand the most up-to-date scientific medical treatments when they get sick? Isn’t that callled a double-standard?”
    These people have been led to believe that because of their faith, they should have everything they want. They are self-centered as individuals, if not also as a group. If you look at the music they sing, it’s all about ‘ME’ and rarely about ‘US’.
    We don’t really have to worry because the christian church will do itself in within a few decades. We just have to be patient [and vigilant at times] because they will grasp at whatever they can on their way down.

  12. douglas in canada 12 Sep 2009, 9:13pm

    I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to de-rail the comments. They need to be about the advertising.
    Why can’t groups like this focus on the good things they have to offer, instead of bashing? “Hey, let’s all get together and make someone feel awful!!” We have a government in Canada right now that is trying to do that. Instead of letting us know what good things they are doing, they focus on trashing the other political parties. My first response is… “Well, then, maybe you AREN’T doing anything positive, and that’s why you have nothing to tell us.”
    If they advertised LOVE, I would be less offended, although I would still remain skeptical, based on their history of religious bullying and “I’ve got to have it MY way!” attititude.

  13. Brian Burton 12 Sep 2009, 9:58pm

    This Belfast Church has lost it’s way ‘big time’ The Churches I know would totally disown the views of the Belfast Church. There is always something ridiculous about the emotions of Church people who has ceased to love!

  14. The religious will always need scapegoats to make them feel positive. Injustice, poverty and greed prevail in all nations where the religious are a majority, despite prohibitions by their deity. Let us not forget that Stalin trained in a Russian Orthodox Seminary or that Hitler was a devout Roman Catholic in his youth. Genocide and experiments on humans have only occured, so far, in nations where most people were morally weaned on Christianity. Christians deny these eternal truths by labelling Christian killers as atheists. Both Hitler & Stalin’s moral compass was grounded in the Christian ideology: hating & persecuting ‘the other’ but especially Jews, the mentally ill, homosexuals, disabled people. People of Faith needs scapegoats as paedophiles need children. Remove the victim and you destroy the raison d’être of the perpetrator.

  15. Steve – Stalin’s russia was almost moddeled on the roman catholic church: witch hunts against those who dissented, cult hero worship of the great leader, the unholy trinity of marx-lenin-stalin, economic miracles of lysenko, never ending praise for the unalterable, unassailable leader….
    it shows, critical thinking can never be done in the kneeling position, irrespective of whether your prayers are to a living or a transcencdent being.

  16. ‘remember sodom and gomorrah?’ – I don’t, because these mythical events were before my time, and I don’t think even Stewart Cowan, with his magical, unprovable link to the mind of his supposed creator, can remember them either.

  17. Brian Burton 13 Sep 2009, 12:31pm

    Both Soviet Russian and Nazi Ideologies was there God. Only the Ideology was sacrosanct where as Religion itself was frowned upon. To be a true communist was to be an atheist, Nazis were atheist too. Neither political cult had any use for Religious teaching or the need for it. Many Bible teachings have come and gone in the Old and New Testimemt cycle of years. The word Sodom is rememberd because of it’s meaning. Sodom is a word seldom used, and never by the Gay community if refering to Gay sex.

  18. Today, the only way to avoid being called “homophobic” is to become practising homosexual. What a blind time we are living in!

  19. Brian Burton 13 Sep 2009, 5:38pm

    Alesha,
    I am not a practising homosexual, I’m really quite good at it now!

  20. Alesha, it’s as simple as avoiding being racisist, you don’t need to change your skin colour to do that? i take it you can manage that? so what’s the problem?

  21. Bishop Ioan 17 Sep 2009, 2:39pm

    Yes, I think after 37 years I have made it past the “practising” stage. I think I’ve become quite good at it in fact.

    Alesha no one wants you to become anything. We want you to quit harassing us because we are different from you.

  22. “This Belfast Church has lost it’s way ‘big time’ The Churches I know would totally disown the views of the Belfast Church. There is always something ridiculous about the emotions of Church people who has ceased to love!”

    Absolutely Brian,

  23. I love seeing the different views concerning freedom of speech as they apply to other countries. In the U.S., we’d be annoyed by this advertisement but the church would be well within their rights to post their opinion (that’s how we ended up with the Phelps clan). My views on Christianity aside (ok, it is a hateful religion and anyone who claims the god of the Christians is all about love has missed the other 99% of their book of mythology), this church is just expressing what the Bible says about us.

    I find it’s usually best to just ignore bullies, like this church, and they lose their power. If you let them know they are getting under your skin, they are empowered, and it feeds into the persecution complex of most fundamentalist Christians.

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