I was at Manchester Pride and saw this group. They were causing a LOT of confusion as the Tory party is still so closely linked to bigotry and intolerance in this country.
Good that they exist but there are some troubling questions about the Tories that I think still need to be addressed.
What I want to know about this Tory group is as follows:
1. What are their recommendations for dealing with deranged bigots within their party – like that scumbag MEP who thinks homophobia does not exist.
2. What is the gay tory group’s policy on the link between the Tory Party and the facist, homophobic Law and Justice Party in Poland (the party that believes tolerance for homosexuality will lead to the destruction of civilisation.
3. Will they oppose religious groups getting ever getting exemptions from anti-discrimination laws
4. Do they support legal equality for gay relationships ie marriage
5. Do they support the expulsion from the Tory Party of Iain Duncan Smith and Philippa Stroud for their membership of the sinister Centre for Social Justice – a far right group campaigning to limit the parental rights of non-biological parents.
These questions need to be addressed. otherwise it could very easily be argued that this gay group is nothing more than an empty PR measure.
The Tories history of deranged homophobia is too recent to be swept under the carpet with the announcement of a gay Tory group.
No sign of Theresa May putting her mug where her conniving mouth is and getting out for the parade itself and marching with those poor deluded gay Tories through the streets of Manchester, eh!
Not to be mean here, but Conservative And Proud of what exactly?
The Conservative party hasn’t distanced themselves from any of their vitriolically LGBT-unfriendly allies/supporters/members, expressed commitment nor support nor even tentative-interest in reviewing any issue of concern to the LGBT community.
Thus far their new-found inclusiveness has not apparently expanded to include anything beyond the inclusion of LGBT citizens in funding & voting for the Conservative party, to the best of my knowledge.
The Conservatives see Manchester as a place where they can gain seats in the next election. This is just a PR stunt to try and get the pink vote.
I was also at Manchester Pride, and I think the amount of interest people showed in signing up to LGBTory is evidence that the group is neither ‘deluded’ or ‘confusing.’
Over the weekend I lost count of the number of people who told us they couldn’t wait for a change of government, and the vast majority understood that the Conservatives are fully supportive of equal gay rights.
PM asks of what we are proud: proud to be gay, and proud to be members of a Party that has not only accepted its mistakes of the past, and apologised for them, but also is completely committed to equal gay rights. As David Cameron said at Conference, he believes in commitment, whether that be ‘between a man and a woman, a man and a man or a woman and a woman.’
As for this being a PR stunt, nothing could be further from the truth. There were over 20 LGBTory members who took part in the Parade and the Stall at Lifestyle Expo, all of whom are from Greater Manchester or surrounding areas in the North West which have no Pride events of their own. There are similar branches across the country. The group was set up independently of the main Party, simply because we believe in its ideals and principles, but has since won the full backing of David Cameron and the Shadow Cabinet.
David Cameron said “I [am] opposed to homophobia in all its forms and think that homophobic bullying in school is completely wrong and needs to be stamped out.” So the real test for his Tory party will be whether it condemns homophobia in its party election manifesto. I strongly suspect that the Conservative manifesto will not even mention homophobia.
i dont get how anyone can be so supportive of a party thats not into giving you equal rights and i dont want to understand but good luck to them
It’s good to see reaction and comment on the new LGBTory group but I find it astonishing that people find the need to be so negative.
We are a group of LGBT people who are ordinary members of the Conservatives and have decided to get a proper group up and running to focus on LGBT issues, both within the Party and throughout the country.
It is NOT a PR stunt, whether for Manchester or for anywhere else in the country. We are all volunteers and have got this group going by ourselves. Yes, we are in contact and liaison with Conservative Campaign Headquarters in London, but NO, we are not run by them.
I’m sorry that some people seem to want to insist on not giving us a fair hearing. I personally wouldn’t dream of criticising the existence of an LGBT group in any other political Party and would congratulate any individuals in whatever Party they belong in their efforts to start a group to focus on these important issues in their particular political Party.
OK, we know that everyone out there isn’t a Conservative supporter, but at least give us SOME credit for wanting to help move forward the LGBT agenda in our Party and country. After all, the Conservatives are most likely to form the next Government, so surely it’s vital that the LGBT community has a credible voice within that potential new Government?
Matt Sephton : Number 8: You say: ” We are all volunteers and have got this group going by ourselves. Yes, we are in contact and liaison with Conservative Campaign Headquarters in London, but NO, we are not run by them.”
So effectively this group is not ‘officially’ part of the Tory Party.
Maybe that’s why both you and Jonny Rowland refuse to answer my questions in Post 1.
Like I already said the Tory Party’s vicious bigotry and the still unanswered questions about their commitment to equality would mean that people are naturally very suspicious of them. And rightly so. They have been so hateful for so long that people need to see evidence of theit commitment to equality. David Cameron’s words are meaningless if you continue to collude with facists in the Europarliament and take no action against homophobic extremists within your party.
What a load of rubbish. Labour have been at every Pride for decades with far more supporters. And incidentally have completed removed all the homophobic laws the Tories brought in last time. Not news though I guess, whereas 6 deluded posh boys is apparently.
This new gay group is PR.
I want to know what disciplinary action is to be taken against the homophobic MEP who denies the existence of homophobia. I want to know what the Tories are doing to change the homophobic policies of their Polish facist comrades in the Europarliament. I want to know what the Tories are going to do to introduce marriage equality. I want to know when Iain Duncan Smith and Philippa Stround are to be reprimanded for their efforts to undermine gay rights. I want confirmation that religious groups will not be allowed to opt out of equality legislation.
Bottom line – I want evidence that the Tory Party are no longer reactionary, homophobic bigots.
This new group is a nice PR gesture. Empty gestures cannot be taken seriously on their own. I need to see evidence of their commitment to equality. That evidence is not visible.
Well done to LGBTory – the more LGBT members of the Tory people that group together, the better. What you need to be doing is getting up and making yourselves heard at the conferences – speeches, rather than after dinner discos! Still, you have to start somewhere I guess.
I’d like to see the same from the Tory Humanists, who formed officially last year. A stronger Humanist / LGBT faction in the party will help make the Tories a more libertarian party – an option which is desperately lacking on the voting card.
Frankly, the Tories’ love of faith schools is far more worrying than its vague position on LGBT rights.
Yes, Vince, we are AFFILIATED to the Conservatives, just as LGBT Labour is AFFILIATED to the Labour Party.
As for the questions that you asked earlier, we are an LGBT group first and foremost and, just as in a news article published here a couple of weeks ago, we will challenge any elected Conservative who questions the rights and responsibilities of LGBT people to live their lives in peace and with the same rights as heterosexuals.
As for ‘posh boys’, Never kissed a Tory, that isn’t even worth commenting on. It’s just as out of touch as Labour’s recent by-election campaigns in Crewe and Nantwich and Norwich North. You will remember that in the former, Labour tried to paint their candidate as the ‘people’s choice’ when she lived nearly 100miles from the constituency. In the latter, it has been widely reported that they very easily forgot their LGBT-loving credentials to take part in a whispering campaign questioning the Conservative candidate Chloe Smith’s sexuality.
@ Jonny R. & Matt S.
I wish you the best of luck in pushing an egalitarian agenda through inside the Tory Party, I really do, because sooner or later we probably will have a Tory Government again, unfortunately – thanks chiefly to the lost plots & the unforgivably squandered opportunities of the Labour Party.
…but to my mind LGBT Tories really are like Turkeys voting for Christmas!
Vince…..in my view gay tory = oxymoron. I bet you not one tory would support full marriage equality for those who want it. Its a party too deeply entrenched with the C of E cult too.
What are the actual policies of the LGBT Tories? Not the airy-fairy sort of ‘advance LGBT policies within the main party’ sort of thing that every LGBT grouping would say, rather what are it’s views on homophobic bullying legislation, tax, marriage equality, etc? What are the concrete policies?
In the US there is an LGBT group called the Log Cabin Republicans who is worse than useless when it comes to actually doing anything about equality. I’d like to think that the LGBT Tories would be better, but it all comes down to actual policies and effectiveness in getting things done.
If anyone is deluded about us taking part in the Parade,it is the Labour Party themselves with their,per usual,negative comments and campaign.Their slogan only made more people take an interest in what we were doing and saying.Grow up Labour and stop being immature.If you believe in democracy,then we have a right to take part in Pride and I was Proud to take part myself.We are as Good As You!
Matt: #13: “we will challenge any elected Conservative who questions the rights and responsibilities of LGBT people to live their lives in peace and with the same rights as heterosexuals.”
So what have you done to challenge Ian Duncan Smith and Philippa Stroud in their hateful efforts (through the Centre for Social Justice) to reduce the parental rights of non-biological parents. What are you doing to challenge the MEP who denied the existence of homophobia. What are you doing to break the alliance between the Tories and the facist Polish Party in the European Parliament.
And even more importantly – does the Tory Party even take what you say into account.
I’m not being mean here but there is no evidence that your gay Tory group is anything other than a PR stunt.
I want to see action.
To the negative guys, you should be campaigning for equal rights and working with LGBTory and the wider movement. Get a life, LGBT rights is not about scoring political points. Move on, your deluded impression that the Conservative Party is full of ‘toffs’ that hate gays is noting more that political jargon. David Cameron has apologised as did Michael Howard before him for the party supporting Section28. The Party officially supported Civil Partnerships when submitted to the commons (and where the first party to make use of it, Alan Duncan). The Party has moved on. Grow up and be real LGBT rights activists, be bigger and support the fact that a party that could form the next government already has an internal pressure group to promote OUR rights.
Lots of Love,
What truthful answers have you two staunch Tories got to Vinces five main questions?????
It was interesting to see the difference in the Labour contingent and the Tory contingent at the Manchester Pride.
The Labour contingent had placards displaying the things they had actually DONE since they’ve been in power – equal age of consent; gays allowed to serve in the army; civil unions; protection from discrimination etc. It’s not perfect but it was a list of actual achievements.
The Tories of course had nothing since they’ve only started pretending to be committed to equality since PR guru David Camerson took the leadership. But all these nasty questions keep appearing – the alliance with the facist Poles; the support for bigotry by Iain Duncan Smith; Philippa Stroud etc; the support for faith exemptions from equality laws.
So far the tories haven’t been able to prove they are committed to equality. I want to see an actual commitment by Cameron on specific issues before I trust him.
Without specific commitments then any LGBT person who votes for them is taking a huge risk.
Matthew W: #19: “your deluded impression that the Conservative Party is full of ‘toffs’ that hate gays is noting more that political jargon.”
Prove it wrong. An apology from Cameron for Section 28 is all very well. What are the policy initiatives of the Tory Party on equality. Where is the official Tory policy which says that religious institutions will not be exempt from equality laws?
@ Vince – You say the Tories have not done anything for the past 12 years….well which party has been in power? It is a general known fact that the governing party is the one which can introduce laws etc, maybe you are under the impression that laws are introduced by the other parties?
Why don’t you just give LGBTory a break, the people who spend their own time this weekend promoting LGBT issues within the party do not deserve to be bullied on here by you. You clearly don’t like living in a democracy, if you did you would welcome the views of other parties who are actually trying to achieve the same thing, equality on LGBT issues. Stop living 20 years in the past and actually listen to what they have to say rather than ranting at the volunteers who were out this weekend. If you don’t like the conservatives, don’t vote for them.
Vince is most definitely a Labour Activist, Go crawl under your rock….
“in my view gay tory = oxymoron”>/i>
I couldn’t disagree more!
I am a Tory precisely because I think it represents exactly what I do want from a government. I want a state that creates every opportunity to suceed, and helps those who can’t help themself.
Other than that I don’t want to be heavily taxed to pay for an army of beauracrats and I don’t want a government that feels it appropriate to dictate every minutae of how I live my life.
At the moment we seem to have a government that believes equality is about dragging everyone DOWN to the same level. Equality for me means making sure everyone has equal opportunity to make the best for themselves (and before I’m castigated I’ve already mentioned that it is important to help anyone who can’t help themselves – whatever the cause of that is).
WOW! I didn’t think our presence would have ruffled so many feathers! It’s nice to be noticed and the many cheers we got as we marched in the parade. Many people were genuinely pleased to see us there and we’ve received numerous comments on our stand as well as through our website.
As a Party we have to accept that we haven’t had the best record when it comes to supporting LGBT issues. This has been fuelled by historic entrenched views in various people from the past. David Cameron is a breath of fresh air blowing through the Party like a hurricane. He’s acknowledged the Party’s failings and he’s acknowledged his own record on these matters. He’s apologised for our stance on issues like section 28 – which we had no comments on this weekend unlike last year.
It’s about time that people accepted the Conservative Party has changed. We’ve moved on – and it’s about time some people got over that and moved on as well.
Good luck to LGBTory. It’s certainly true that Tony Blair’s government did some excellent work on the LGBT front, Labour, more so under Brown, have failed on every other issue – from the economy to the NHS. The majority of gay people I know will vote for Cameron’s Conservatives. A few will even vote Lib Dem or Green – anything BUT Labour. I wonder if ‘Vince’ works for the Labour Party? He’s definitely not worth engaging with.
Vince’s questions are perfectly reasonable and valid – regardless of whether he is a Labour supporter or not.
Why are the gay Tories not answering them?
What a load of pre-election homophobic Tory TOSH
From reading some of the comments on here, it’s an advert of why both straight and gay people are leaving Labour in their droves.
Tories are no more homophobic than any other party (this may not have been the same in the 80′s, but LGBT issues have moved on in leaps since then).
Vince – I think you need to do your research on gays in the army, it was Europe that forced it through. Labour have moved things forward, and they should be commended for that, but assuming the vast majority of Tories are homophobic is just plain untrue.
I was at Cardiff Mardi Gras – the Tories had booked a stand, but failed to turn up. Hardly indicative of an acceptance of the principle of equality…
I wasn’t at Manchester Pride, but I was at Pride Scotia last year in Glasgow and this year in Edinburgh. I was amongst those flying the flag for the Scottish Conservatives, and we, similarly, got a fantastic response and were very happy to get involved in some lively debates at our stall. It was not organised centrally, though we did have some support. In the main, it was local Tory boys and girls who recognised that it is important to remind people that we exist.
Conspicuous by their absence, at both events, were the Labour Party. Most other major (and some minor) political parties made a showing, but Labour (whose Glasgow HQ, as I recall, we marched past in 2008) did not.
Even if you want to dismiss this as a PR stunt to win the gay vote, surely you recognise that strongly suggests that the Conservative Party cares about the LGBT vote? I think it’s a massive shame that rather than praise the efforts of people to raise the profile of the LGBT community – in all our shapes, sizes, political colours and creeds – that instead you question their motivation.
As a bridge to change hearts and minds I can understand how this LGBT group might make some in-roads in the tory party, similar to the Log Cabin group in the U.S. I am however, baffled by the proclamation of being “proud” to be a tory when tories have done so little to advance the equal rights, and protections of LGBT people in general. Or perhaps this is a group of LGBT people shooting themselves in the foot yet again! :-(
jonnielondon, as I thought most people would realise, ‘PROUD’ is a slogan of the LGBT movement. In the slogan ‘Conservative and Proud’, the Conservative refers to being a Conservative supporter and the Proud refers to being proud to be part of the LGBT community. That’s why Manchester PRIDE is called Manchester Pride, to give another example!
@MattySouthCoast – “Homophobic Tory tosh”…..yes, clearly the members of LGBTory are homophobbic aren’t they! A brain cell might not go a miss on the south coast it seems. I was not at Manchester Pride but a few friends went and said that the LGBTory stall was great and they also got some info on a conference pride event which sounds fantastic. Labour may have given LGBT people more rights in the past 12 years but they have taken away far more civil liberties from everyone else.
And the people supporting the gay Tory group have not answered any specific questions posed to them.
I mean if they can’t even answer a direct question about their recommendations for dealing with Iain Duncan Smith’s efforts to limit the parental rights of the non-biological parent in a same-sex couple ; or how they propose to deal with their extreme right Polish allies in Europe then people can draw the very reasonable conclusion that the gay Tory group is meaningless PR>
Answer the specific questions that have been asked of you gay Tories? Your failure to do so is evidence of the irrelevance of your group.
Answer the specific questions that have been posed to you gay Tories.
Are you not able to? Or you acknowledge that your group is ameaningless PR exercise?
As I stated above, Stephane, our group will not shy away from criticising elected Conservative members if they oppose LGBT rights and go against David Cameron’s stated aims of the importance and inclusion of LGBT groups as well as others. In fact, we did that very thing two weeks ago in an article published on this very news site.
What we will NOT do, however, is make policy proclamations in answer to a Labour rant. But as our website develops we will publish more policies, campaigns and activities for all to see. Keep a look out! :)
wow what a lot of animosity between labour and conservative. save your vitriol for the BNP not people who are trying to make a difference. Use your verbal skills to attack the homphobes on other sites. The homophobes dont like it !
I was proud to be representing LGBTory at this years Pride celebrations.
From the great responses we got in the parade and on the stall it was clear that people were pleased to see us there. Obviously, there were people who made comments about past policies but were not willing to engage into a conversation with us regarding those but there were people who, although challenged past policies were willing to have an intelligent and reasoned conversation about LGBTory and the Conservative party.
David Cameron has apoligised for Section 28 and the party has moved forward a great deal under his leadership. LGBTory and the Conservatives are committed to being positive about the future and not living 20 years in the past debating old policies.
The Labour campaign at Pride of ‘Never kissed a Tory, never will’ was negative in every way, LGBTory is not concerned with negative campaigning against the other parties, if we have learnt anything this year in politics it is that the public are not interested in political bickering and it just turns the electorate away from the mainstream parties, something which people living in the North West should be only too aware of after the European elections.
I, and LGBTory will continue to promote and campaign for LGBT issues within the Party and, unlike Labour, think that the issues being debated and raised are far more important to the LGBT community to be used in a political point scoring exercise.
We had many positive comments this weekend and with vast public support LGBTory will continue to grow and be a campaign to protect and improve the rights of people within the LGBT community.
Is this the same David Cameron who only last year voted against giving lesbians equal IVF and birth rights?
Typical Tories. It’s so easy to spout vague lofty nonsense about “inclusion” and “equality” yet you always avoid the uncomfortable discussion on actual gay rights policies and why your party, to the present day, consistently opposes them.
I applaud your efforts, Gareth. As you state, many tories have apologised for section 28, including its architects. However, you have not answered the more immediate questions, like the current political, unholy alliance the conservatives are making in Europe with openly homophobic parties. As I understand, this is a David Cameron initiative, breaking with their more moderate traditional allies. This question has been raised on this thread already, but none of your group have yet answered this basic challenge. It is a reasonable question, and a litmus test of the Conservatives’ true commitments. So, what has LGBTory done about it?
If David Cameron and the Tory party in general can go one better than Labour by supporting full marriage equality for those who want it, then I would support them, but I know that they won’t.
At least some American Log Cabin conservatives in the republican party support it as do a handful of conservative politicians, Dick Cheney being one of them, the former vice-president. I can’t name one MP from either side that is, let alone a single gay tory or labour member of note. If they exist, who are they exactly and what are they doing about it?
Matt Sephton is the chairman of LGBTory and has been desperately calling for his friends to claim Labour are trying to discredit them on pink news.
Matt Sephton chairman of spin for LGBTory. What a very sad little man you are.
Whatever is going on in the country between Tory or Labour Gay activities, it’s a lot of very good publicity for the future. To be entirely free one day to say, there is no need to fight for Gay rights because we already have them….hold that thought!
Gradually the Tories are coming into the 20th century. Well done. But a self perptuating group of apologists for what has been the main bastion of homophobia in the UK is of no use. What are they going to do about evidence of homophobia in their party? Cameron has decided to go into a pact with a range of homophobic right wing parties in Europe, and sees no problem with that. You can always tell people by the friends that they keep.
I never thought our presence would create such interest and debate – it’s all good though. The Conservative Party is always labelled as ‘anti gay’. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Party would collapse without its ever-growing gay contingent!
No end of people came up to our stand over the past three days – wanting to know about what we were about and what we were going to do from the future. A lot of people said it was likely we were going to form the next Goverment and they wanted to know we weren’t going to go back on the huge steps that have been taken to get us where we are now. It’s clear from David Cameron’s comments that he’s committed to driving these things forward and they aren’t going to be reversed.
After 12 years in power, all Labour could shout about was that they’d never kissed a Tory. I know they’ve done other things with them, but apparently they’ve never kissed one! Yeah … right!! Another Labour lie!
It’s time to forget the past and start talking about the future. LGBTory is here to stay – so people had better get over it and get used to it. We’re going to fight and work hard for equality and LGBT issues within the Party. As a Party of freedom, choice, responsibility and enterprise, we should be a natural choice for many people from the LGBT community.
The Conservative Party has changed. Have you?
I agree with you, there is quite a few ‘Bastions’ totering about the Tory strongholds. I’m sure you ment the the 21st centuary, are they in it?
The word spin is one that can only be associated with labour!! Get a life and grow up. Would you rather the tories were agianst gay rights so that when they formed the next government they revoked all equality legislation? THOUGHT NOT! why don’t you listen to what they have to say instead of harping on about your pathetic socialist agenda, either that or do us all a favour and shut up!
Jemma – Milton Keynes
@Cllr Stephen Ellis
The reason why the Conservative Party is labelled anti-gay is because they are anti-gay. This isn’t an opinion, all you need to do is look at the voting records on almost all gay rights legalisation to debunk your claim that the Tories have changed.
Secondly, you keep repeating your vague claim that you’ll ‘fight for equality’ without mentioning anything specific. What LGBT issues exactly will your group be fighting for within the party? Does your group support marriage equality and will you be campaigning for it?
Well I am looking at that Tory future with the likes of Philipa Stroud in the house of commons being positioned for great things within your party.
I see the person who abused me with her so called Christian counselling.
Will LGBTory be condemning her for her actions and the actions of her + husbands homophobic church Newfrounters. Will you be condemning your leader excepting funding from these homophobes? Or because she is the Tory candidate for Sutton & Cheam, Cllr Stephen Ellis.
Well Jemma in Milton Keynes I am not a socialist or even a labour party member or voter. I also live in Milton Keynes but comment because unfortunately one of your parties candidates Philipa Stroud who is also my abuser who thought she could heal me of my sexuality.
I will let others tell you how rude you are for your shut up remark.
BTW I will be very loud come election time in Sutton & Cheam.
We’ll challenge and criticse any Party member when they say something stupid or contrary to LGBT views – whether it’s Roger Helmer MEP saying there’s no such thing as Homphobia or Cllr Eddy in Bristol saying giving grants to gay groups is a “waste of money”. Such comments are ill thought out, narrow minded and just plain wrong – whether you’re a Conservative or not!
@Abi1975 – I’m not aware of the specific case you’re on about. My personal view is that religious groups shouldn’t be exempt from any legislation which promotes equality. It’s not acceptable in any form. Religious groups should be breaking down barriers and promoting equality – not giving inequality and hatred a hiding place.
@Abi1975 – you should get in touch with our Prospective Parliamentary Candidate in Milton Keynes South, Iain Stewart. He may be able to help out with the issues you’ve raised.
@moamaom – The Conservative Party isn’t anti-gay at all. If you knew the people in the whole Party machine, you’d know that comment wasn’t true. David Cameron has allowed our MPs a free vote on these issues – allowing them to vote with their conscience. They haven’t been whipped into following a centralised diktat as happens with Labour. As we have loads more (openly) gay and lesbian candidates than all the other Parties put together, I think you’ll see a very different Parliament following the General Election. The sooner Gordon Brown brings it on the better!
is that the people who couldn’t even get the rainbow fla right?
There’s been a gay group within the Conservative Party since 1975 – and it’s certainly the gayest of all the main parties when you compare those activists who attend the party conferences – just ask the journalists and lobbyists who attend them all!
Tories have been doing Pride events across the country for decades, and have held events at Party Conference for just as long. I decided I believed in Tory policies long before I knew anything about gay politics, but I’m proud of our Party’s overall record. Yes, Section 28 was bad, but it was never intended to have the effects that it did have. It was an over-reaction to the loony left Councils that were trying to embarass the Governement at the time – and the left always conveniently forget that the Labour front-bench voted for it too!
Good luck to LGB Tory for keeping up the tradition of lobbying for gay rights within the party and promoting the party amongst the gay community. Obviously it went down well in Manchester….
Well that shows then the ‘conscience’ of the vast majority of Tory MPs is anti-gay. The fact that in free votes Tory MPs overwhelming vote against gay rights rubbishes your claim that the Conservatives aren’t anti-gay.
I also noticed how you completely ignored my question, I’ll ask again: What LGBT issues exactly will your group be fighting for within the party? Does LGBTory support marriage equality and will you be campaigning for it?
Please see my response above (38) about how the policies and campaigns of LGBTory will be announced and taken forward – NOT on a third party website in response to a Labour rant, but in a more appropriate and responsible manner.
Some very reasonable questions that the LGBTory are unable to answer:
1. What is LGBTory’s recommendations for dealing with the deranged bigots within their party – like that scumbag MEP who thinks homophobia does not exist? They have read his comments which were not taken out of context. Do you think he should be punished? Yes or No?
2. What is the gay tory group’s policy on the link between the Tory Party and the facist, homophobic Law and Justice Party in Poland (the party that believes tolerance for homosexuality will lead to the destruction of civilisation.
3. Will LGBTory oppose religious groups getting ever getting exemptions from anti-discrimination laws?
4. Do LGBTory support legal equality for gay relationships ie marriage?
5. Do they support the expulsion from the Tory Party of Iain Duncan Smith and Philippa Stroud for their membership of the sinister Centre for Social Justice – a far right group campaigning to limit the parental rights of non-biological parents?
Again I will reiterate – I am not and never have been a member of the Labour Party. I am just curious.
Why can’t LGBTory answer these very reasonable questions?
It’s looking more like the group’s formation is simply a meaningless PR exercise. I mean they are not even able to answer specific questions.
#56: Matt Sephton says: “Please see my response above (38) about how the policies and campaigns of LGBTory will be announced and taken forward – NOT on a third party website in response to a Labour rant, but in a more appropriate and responsible manner.”
Vince is not ranting – he is asking very reasonable questions that you seem totally unwilling and unable to answer.
Please confirm when the policies and campaigns of LGBTory will be announced.
Until that point I think it is crystal clear from your group’s refusal to answer questions that LGBT people should not trust your group.
My oh my – the gay tories aren’t defending themselves very well on here.
Typical Tory bull. Notice how they try to explain why they refuse to answer questions they say it is because they don’t respond to ‘Labour rants’.
I’ve not seen any ranting on here to be honest.
Vince, I saw again, Rome wasn’t built in a day and I will NOT announce LGBTory policies on a third party blog! Keep an eye on our website.
You obviously do not keep a very close eye on these issues, despite you making it sound like you do, as (and I’ve already mentioned this numerous times above), if you did, you would have seen our thoughts about Roger Helmer MEP in the news quite recently. See:
Tory crap as usual – only last week here in Bristol the usual hate spouting Tories denounce Lottery Funding to gay group to quote the ignorant Tory Cllr Richard Eddy to the £400,000 grant ‘this is a mistaken misguided outrageous waste of money’ – so much for MODERN Tories and ‘their’ equality !! And these stories aren’t isolated they happen every day – Come on LGBTory boys is this your equality? – NOT IN MY NAME
This a group which is promoting LGBT within a party that is more than likely going to form the next government, they deserve a break and also the right time/place for them to launch their policies!
I can also say I completely disagree with claims that the group was just a PR stunt, this is complete rubbish as I have seen them at Pride for the last few years, it’s just that the media has given them more of a spotlight as they’re apparently under new leadership and are, as stated before, the LGBT group of the Party most likely to be in Government next year.
As for those who keep banging on about Section 28, I suggest you get over it… it was over 20 years ago. Surely, looking at the number of homosexual supporters the Tories have it proves that times have changed and the Party is moving forward. It’s also worth noting that the opposition front bench backed Section 28 at the time!
I think LGBTory is a fantastic group and will go from strength to strength. As they are promoting rights of all of us in the LGBT community I think we should lay off them, they’re only doing what we all are!!
Seeing them cute lads on their stall at Manchester Pride on Saturday, they’ve got my vote ;)
@Linda – promoting what – strength to strength? – where are the answers to the questions we all want to hear which is what will they be pressing their leader for change on? Yet again we hear so much but actually no substance. I bet (got a few quid stashed for my get away) we’ll all soon see the Tories true colours (and I bet not a rainbow flag in sight)
Fair enough Matt – you don’t want to announce LGBTory’s policies on here.
When will you be announcing them on your website – a date by which you will answer the specific questions posed to you would be appreciated?
I am perfectly willing to accept that LGBTory means well but so far there has been little to no indication from the Tory leadership is going to address the sinister, homophobic activities of Philippa Stroud and Iain Duncan Smith, or that they are going to take equality issues seriously. David Cameron can make as many nice noises as he likes but owing to the Tory Party’s vicious bigotry until very recently it is quite simply not enough.
The LGBT community has no reason to trust the Tories unless their specific questions have been answered.
AHAHAHAH. Idiots. ‘Log Cabin Republicans’ in the US, now these clowns in the UK. Wake me up when it’s over.
Don’t trust the Tories at all and I still won’t vote for them
Is it just 3 MPs that the Torys have coughed up so far? Didn’t we read about two months ago that they HOPE to have 7 in time for the next election? Yet we are told above that if all the gays and lesbians left the Tory party it would “collapse”! LOL!
So a few unthinking posh monied gay boys have decided to identify themselves with the traditional persecutors of homosexuals.
Do they REALLY think that the party that is founded upon Queen-loving, Bishop-licking, Public-School, and toadying to the Establishment has suddenly become lucidly liberal?
Let the stupid deluded mugs turn up in their rainbow t-shirts at bastions of the Tory world and the Tory calendar and see how they go down!
Turn up at Henley next year boys, in your gay t-shirts, and spread out your LGBTory picnic rug right beside the river in amongst all those toffee-nosed Tories with their Fortnum and Mason and Harrods hampers . . . and let’s just see how they take you into their bosom!
You’ll probably be requested to leave!
@ Eddy – You have such a deluded view of the conservatives, although not really interested in politics myself I have lots of friends who are Tory, your view is so out of date it is untrue. Get a life and get into the real world. Or, carry on voting for Labour who will give all your tax money to the people who can not be bothered to go out and get a job, assuming of course that you are a tax payer.
You are so right…What about miricles Eddy, do you belive in miricles. They are delightful to watch in the Media etc. but would be impossible to live with! We can all look back on the greatest political time-periods and be assured we have never been told the truth!
Jemma – the view held by many people that the Tories are homophobic bigots opposed to equality for LGBT people is entirely understandable given the Tory party’s shameful history of homophobic bigotry.
And the refusal of the LGBTory group (or indeed the Tory Party proper) to answer specific policy questions on their commitment to equality means that until they answer these questions any LGBT person who votes for them is a fool.
Voting blind is not wise. Labour certainly has made massive mistakes but it is FAR more easy to see that on the specific issues of LGBT rights they leave the Tories in the dust. And until the Tories actually prove they are committed to equality (the deselection of bigots such as Iain Duncan Smith and Patricia Stroud at the next election for example) this image will continue.
The sight of the Tories trying to scrabble for the gay vote is hilarious. It’s a bit like the middle-aged balding banker trying to induce the young babe to come back for a coffee in his Porsche. He’ll dump her before the night is over to return to his smart clean proper Jerusalem-singing English wife in their lovelair traditional English village where the Women’s Institute, the restoration of the charch spire, and next summer’s Duck Race are uppermost in everybordy’s mainds. (No bleacks and queer boys round here, thenk you very much!)
The product is never going to be able to match the marketing.
Then don’t vote for them!! Don’t you think that a group within the Conservative Party campaigning for gay rights is a good thing? Doesn’t every gay person want that? They could be saying something you agree with and you would be ranting still just because they are Conservatives. Labour MP’s also voted for Section 28 don’t forget and Margaret Thatcher was the only Woman MP to vote for the legalisation of homosexuality, forgetting that are we Labour????
Jemma Haynes, amongst the likely winners you have a choice. Labour or Conservative. Now, if you are a lesbian it would be foolish for you to back a party that has a long and general history of having looked down upon, sniggered at, and even vilified lesbians and gay men. You need to ask yourself: what general attitude was it that causes that disposition amongst the average Tory? Do I want to be associated with that history, that attitude. Or do I want to be associated with that political line which has demonstrated for a very long time that it IS open and liberal and accepting of the NEW.
The Conservative party, Jemma, is indeed about CONSERVING the Britain of yesteryear! PR-man Dave can spout all he wants, at the tip of the Tory iceberg, that he’s a forward-thinker, a liberal, a changer, but the mass that constitutes that iceberg beneath him are your Daily Hate readers, your Middle Englanders, your readers of “This England”, just falling short of membership of the BNP.
Jemma, there’s lot of us gays and lesbians and the Tories are desperate to get into power and get Britain back to where it used to be, the Britain of old. They’re only after your vote, girl! That’s all. They’re all out to get any votes they can. Don’t be a fool.
Please do not insult me with your patronising post. The thing is, I am not only interested in gay issues when it comes to politics, I want a party who is going to make the country a better place for more reasons than just gay rights. The Conservatives have, in my opinion, showed that they are supportive of gay rights but they also have policies which I agree on concerning health, the economy, policing, justice etc. I will vote for the party who is best overall to lead this country and I believe that to be the conservatives. Please do not talk to me like I am a silly little child unable to make up my own mind. I am a 29 year old Lawyer so need no advice from you on what I should do at the Ballot Box, thankyou.
I find your posts hilarious just because of the lack of real life experience in them! Any sane human being will realise that most of our Party do not fall into the stereotypes that you paint! If that were true, the Conservatives wouldn’t be the most successful political Party in the world in terms of elections won etc. Ordinary people elect governments, not some body of super elite!
Also, I personally am happy to acknowledge that Labour have helped LGBT people during their time in office. I work closely in my community with many Labour activists and am glad to do so. It doesn’t mean that I wish to see them continue in Government. And it also doesn’t mean that I don’t think the Conservatives, when in Government, can continue social reforms to provide the Conservative ideal of freedom of the individual to live his or her life without an overly-interfering state.
Matt Sephton – With you all the way, you present a very balanced view and you seem opened-minded about who you work with so long as the ultimate goal is achieved. Regardless of which political party one supports, it can only be a good thing that LGBT guys and girls like yourself are in there and doing something. Gay groups bemoaned the lack of Tory discussion on gay issues, but are still not content now that something positive has happened. The academic elite that supposedly think they know what is best for gay people really don’t have a clue quite often. Cross-party support for gay people can never be bad. You are also right to point out that there is no one stereotype of a Conservative, after all it was John Major who lowered the age of consent to 18 from 21 and Margaret Thatcher was also a supporter of decriminalisation. But I guess the loony lefties on here are as keen to sweep that under the carpet as the most dedicated right-wind branch of the Tories. It’s just historical fact, it can be denied just for the sake of political gain. Best of luck anyway.
OK, Monkeychops, so now we have proof that you are a Tory, as well as being a person who has clearly stated in another thread that you believe ALL gay people to be the most selfish group in society that you have ever known. Tory and homophobe. Typical. Of course. QED.
Why don’t you come right out into the open and declare yourself a religionist too?
Sorry, Jemma and Matt, for so obviously rattling your cage and upsetting you. You both clearly see the foolishness of being gay and lesbian and party to CONSERVATIVES. And, Jemma, your being “a 29 year old Lawyer” means NOTHING. Sorry, sweetie. Are you not a solicitor? Perhaps just a Legal Executive? Either way, solicitor or legal executive, there are fine ones and absolutely lousy ones. So don’t pull rank and spout the title of your profession.
Think hard. If you’re a lesbian, Jemma, don’t back a bunch of traditional lesbian-haters! Ask yourself why the Conservatives have currently only 3 out homosexual MPs! Ask yourself why time and again we hear of yet another one uttering something homophobic. Do you feel that your self-image is uplifted in some way by virtue of being associated with the Royalty-lovers, the Bishop-lickers, the Establishment toadies? Your self-image would be a sounder thing if it were based upon the party that has a traditional of forward-thinking rather than backward-glancing conservativeness.
Eddy – You are one paranoid android. Talk about sweeping generalisations and assumptions – you label me a Tory, religious fanatic when you have never actually met me or read my postings properly…and yet you criticise ME for making a generalisation about gay men based on my own vast, personal experiences with them? Hypocrisy doesn’t even cover it! Besides, who are you to judge what people vote in elections? I never even said I voted Tory, I simply expressed that I was pleased the Tories had got on with LGBT issues. Which you should also be. You are very, very arrogant to assume who I vote for – so please, can you prove I am a Tory? Or that I am religious? The burden is on you…..and to be fair it is such a cheap tactic of people like you on this site to pettily insult people by shouting “Tory, Tory”. Is that really a grown-up way to contest someone’s views?
Moreover, you had no right to slander Jemma or Matt as above. Patronising Jemma by calling her “sweety”, mocking her job title and who she votes for in such a crass, bitchy manner is just the kind of gay man I hate. They have both posted eloquently and thoughtfully and all you have proceeded to do is attack them in a sniping, bitter way. If you had questioned their membership of the party on the grounds you think Tories have got it in for you, then they would probably have answered you. As it is, you don’t deserve a response from them.
Stop jumping to conclusions, making wild unfounded assumptions based on your own paranoia and then maybe you’ll be taken seriously.
Monkeychops, you know I have been interacting with you with respect but just recently you’ve start to talk drivel. First you declare on the other GMFA thread that all gay men ARE selfish, period! Wrong, wrong, and very very wrong, my little friend!
Next, I find you on THIS thread supporting the Tories . . . and then you turn round and claim that you you’re not a Tory-supporter!
Next you say I have “slandered” Jemma and Matt! For heaven’s sake, are you are drama queen or what! On the GMFA thread you said I had “berated” someone, when in fact I had just exercised my right to disagree.
You say I have “mocked” Jemma’s job title. No, matey! I have not! Again, you react like a bitter twisted old queen. I am beginning to see where your fearfulness is coming from.
A number of people on these threads have been suspicious about you for sometime, Monkeychops, and I have now learnt for myself why.
You had credibility. You have blown it.
Eddy – You see, you are another one of those guys proving why I think gay men are a bit odd. You have decided in your head that I am a Tory because I applauded the initiative of the LGBT Tory guys. How does that make me a card-carrying Tory? It doesn’t. Do you actually know anything about politics? I would assume not. You have assumed many things about me, who I may vote for and even that I am religious, with no proof of any of it. It’s quite hilarious really, given that I am an avid supporter of secularism – just like you. Shot yourself in the foot there.
Worst off, these petty insults, calling people bitter, twisted old queens is really very sad. It’s old queens that say that kind of thing and you’ve just portrayed yourself as one. You’re just venomous and spiteful and lash people with personal attacks when they don’t agree with you. Dave has already pointed this out to you on the other thread, so perhaps it’s time you listened to someone else instead of that overbearing voice of yours. I can’t take someone like you seriously.
Jemma was right, you will clearly rant against the Tories even when they are doing something positive just because you want to hate them. I personally welcome any party that makes a move I feel is positive, perhaps you should move on from your deep-rooted prejudices and do the same.
First you declare on the other GMFA thread that all gay men ARE selfish, period!
Next, we find you on THIS thread CLEARLY supporting the Tories . . . and then you turn round and think you can claim that you you’re not a Tory-supporter!
Support Tories and you are a Tory-supporter.
Eddy, pay no attention to that Monkeychops, he’s abuffoon, and he’s only here to bait people so he can get a few digs in and then have a sanctimonious rant. In the “Docs on Queer as Folk and Harvey Milk for launch of Fruit TV” thread, he refers to all gay men as, and I quote, “cottaging, cruising, living with HIV, using far too many mind-altering drugs, drinking too much alcohol, living in a closed-off ghetto…”
This isn’t any gay man I know, what about you, Eddy? I mean, I’d hardly call my €850k house in North County Dublin a ghetto! It can be a little untidy from time to time, but a ghetto is stretching the imagination! But then again, monkeychops seems to think it’s clever to generalise like that, especially when the generalisation is offensive and unfounded. No doubt we’re in for another tiresome tirade of how he’s better than the rest of us for his Martha Steward lifestyle.
This is the man who accuses you of hypocrisy. Pot. Kettle. Black. A gay man who’s bigoted against gay men. Is there anything more pathetic and tragic? That’s not a chip on his shoulder, its a forest.
Thanks, Will. Nice to have your clear thinking back on the scene.
“The Labour contingent had placards displaying the things they had actually DONE since they’ve been in power – equal age of consent; gays allowed to serve in the army ….”
Vince – check your facts – the European Court FORCED the government to allow gays to serve in the army, despite the government’s best efforts to avoid it.
Well said Sister Mary. I am absolutely sick and tired of hearing the myth that the Labour party in any way enabled gays to serve in the Armed Forces.
Read my lips: THEY DID NO SUCH THING.
They did their level best to stop gays serving and begrudgingly accepted the findings of the European Court of Human Rights.
To repeat, Labour wanted to maintain the laws criminalising gays in HM Armed Forces.
The LGBTory group STILL have not answered the direct questions posed to them. It is perfectly reasonable that they should answer these questions. Why are they refusing? Are they trying to hide the fact that their group so far has proven so far to simply be an ineffective PR exercise?
1. What is the gay tory group’s policy on the link between the Tory Party and the facist, homophobic Law and Justice Party in Poland (the party that believes tolerance for homosexuality will lead to the destruction of civilisation.
2. Will LGBTory oppose religious groups getting ever getting exemptions from anti-discrimination laws?
3. Do LGBTory support legal equality for gay relationships ie marriage?
4. Do they support the expulsion from the Tory Party of Iain Duncan Smith and Philippa Stroud for their membership of the sinister Centre for Social Justice – a far right group campaigning to limit the parental rights of non-biological parents?
Stop making accusations about other people gay tories. Your refusal to respond to questions is proof positive that your party should not be trusted.
So, some gay men and lesbians are inclined to believe the tale that’s being spun that the Conservative Party has now changed, that it is a completely different animal!
OK, so tell me, please, who all those Daily Hate readers, Torygraph readers, and Times readers who live in all the hundreds and hundreds of towns, villages, and hamlets in the comfortable white home-counties of England, now vote for?
All those hundreds of thousands of white middle-class, genteel, and upper-class English folk who populate all the quaint old towns, villages, and hamlets of Worcestershire, Oxfordshire, Gloucestershire, Cambridgeshire, Dorset, Wiltshire, Hampshire, Buckinghamshire, much of Kent, Surrey, and so on . . . who, pray, do they now vote for?
They don’t vote Labour, and they don’t vote Liberal Democrat. They may be inclined to sympathise with some of the views of the BNP, but they don’t vote BNP either. So who do they vote for these days, that lot, IF THEY DON’T CFKUING WELL VOTE FOR THE SAME OLD BAG OF MAINTAIN-THE-STATUS-QUO TORIES THAT THEY ALWAYS HAVE VOTED FOR? Eh?
Don’t tell me all these people have changed. They haven’t. I know this only too well.
Those gay men and lesbians are currently being FOOLED by the Tories, need to get out of the cities and go live amongst Tories and find out for themselves that in no way have the grassroots of the Tory Party changed! And Cameron damn well knows it.
Firmly ignore Monkyfacechops, he is a screaming NUTTER on the ‘Fruit TV’ Thread.
I’m a card carrying Labour supporter and even worked for the party before the last election. However, as a gay activist too, I think it is great that LGBTory has been set up. I remain to be convinces as to whether the Tories really have changed their views on LGBT rights but surely having a voice within advocating equality within the Conservatives is a good thing.
I think some of my comrades need to get a reality check. At some point whether next year, in 10 years or whenever, another political party is going to get into government. I would rather that party, whoever it is, supported gay rights so anything this group can do to change minds within their own party is a good thing.
Not to mention that if we only vote according to the party that would give the most rights to LGBT people then we should all go vote Green. If you aren’t doing that, then there must be other aspects of Labour politics you believe in too, just as these gay Tories do and we should respect that.
Sibr, if you’re “a card-carrying Labour supporter” then I suggest you join other Labour supporters in doing all you can to ensure gays and lesbians don’t get sucked in by this propaganda that PR-man Cameron is dispersing in his desperate attempt to get as many votes as he can. Because of the fickle unthinking masses and their annoyance at having their party cake taken away from them by the recession, there is a very real threat that the Tories actually WILL get in. Is that what you want?
Brian, I think you’re dead right about Monkeychops. If he’s gay, he’s a gay-hating misanthrope. On the other hand, he could just be what you suspected: a homophobe artfully parading as a gay man. Monkeychops, if you’re reading this, yes, you have a problem and we’ve rumbled it.
To get back to the original story: what numpty ran this as news? LGBTory were at Manchester Pride last year* so they shouldn’t be being presented as something shiny new twelve months later!
Or can we look forward to other exciting stories about the imminent launch of a new chain of shops to be called “Clone Zone” and the First Ever London Pride March next July?
* arriving there just 17 years behind the Liberal Democrats and Labour
Monkeychops no longer surprises me. He/she bores me “à en mourir”.
It’s beyond me why anyone would argue with Adrian, Will and Eddy on this issue. But, everyone has a right to express an opinion; that’s what it’s all about, innit.
That monkeychops is a complete douche bag.
Thanks for your sanity on this thread. As I said earlier, I personally am happy to see LGBT groups in ALL political parties and that’s the way it SHOULD be and we should be supporting each of those groups in their respective parties.
It IS likely that the Conservatives will form the next government and having LGBTory lobbying on LGBT issues within and for the Party is, I believe, a good thing and that is why we are doing it.
I’ll repeat again that I’m not going into specific policies on a third party website, but we’ve already proved recently (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-13653.html) that we’re willing to publicly challenge representatives of our own Party who question the LGBT cause.
Yes, LGBTory were at Manchester Pride last year but it is only in the last few months that the group has properly established and organised itself and this is the reason we are moving forward and are getting publicity such as this.
OK, you don’t want to answer specific questions on a 3rd party website, Matt. Fair enough. Strangely however, you’re not answering these reasonable questions on your own website either?
Or is your group just a PR exercise?
Do they thin they can change a tiger’s stripes?
In the USA, there is a 40 year old Group called Dignity USA that is Catholic. The razi pope came to the USA last year and waved to them. And then he sent a letter to all the pishops telling them to kick this gay supportive group out of church property.
Guys, don’t waste your time. The central social issue of our time is equality for our gay and lesbian brothers. And the only way you get conservative groups to move on the subject is to hit them where it hurts – the balls, the pocketbook and the voting booth.
This is THE social justice issue of our time.
Vince: 1. What is LGBTory’s recommendations for dealing with the deranged bigots within their party – like that scumbag MEP who thinks homophobia does not exist? They have read his comments which were not taken out of context. Do you think he should be punished? Yes or No?
3. Will LGBTory oppose religious groups getting ever getting exemptions from anti-discrimination laws?
may I point out a few things?
as to 1. what will Labour do to it’s deranged bigots? Or are there no people in Labour who vote against Queer Rights? Not the current Leader who has a WORSE voting record that DC?
as to 2. I think this was a stupid move myself and should be reversed asap.
as to 3. Labour don’t support this either so what’s your point? Labour have introduced religious exemptions or did you miss that happening?
as to 4. see the answer to three.
as to 5. see answer to 1.
Answer your questions? Now I’m not a Tory but my LESBIAN partner is.
Theotherone – you’re still avoiding the questions.
To say ‘Well Laboour hasn’t dones that either’ is not a valid response.
Labour is not perfect on LGBT issues. But the Tories have shown themselves to be so incredibly bigotted that if they are seriously aiming to attract LGBT votes then they need to have specific policies about homophobia. (I would hope they speak publicly about their opposition to the candidacy of Iain Duncan Smith and Philippa Stroud for example).
At the present time the LGBTory groups is quite clearly only a PR exercise. I am willing to give them a change to prove they are more than that.
But the frankly pathetic replies they have given to valid, reasonable questions on this site is indicative about their relevance or influence.
Eddy, AdrianT, Simon Murphy, and Sister Mary Clarence have disappeared from this thread…I’m afraid what’s left is claptrap to me…yawn.
I don’t see ‘pathetic’ responces. Perhaps any responce woulde be pathetic.
If you want the Tories to be one thing then labour should be it too. It’s simple realy: if you defend Labour who fail on one count after another then you can not ask the Tories to supass them.
It might have been a good idea if somebody questioned them about the reasoning behing section 28 and why they support a party that enabled LGBT people to be intimedated during the 80s led by homophobic Thatcher and her cronies. It was under Thatcher that saw police chief James Anderton compile his reign of terror over the Gay community and he has never been made to pay for it. LGBT Tories should hang thier heads in shame and get an eduaction in LGBT History.
wait a minute suzi: Labour supported anti-Queer legislation. Now I’m not applauding the Tories here but Labour are little better – the Party only changed the law because they had to.
the only Labour people to be proud of are the ones in Scotland who stood up against the Homophobes and repealed Clause 28 WITHOUT THE SUPORT OF THE NATIONAL PARTY.
One of my concerns is the rise of home grown terrorists. The guy in Bristol and the 3 recently convicted had all been to University, but were unable to get the jobs they wanted because of racism. If the Tory party wins the next General election, they will campaign against PC and imergrents and this will only encourage more Muslims to become radicalised when they don’t find work.
The Tory party is heading down a very dangerous path which could kill thousands of people.
Boat-Rocker: What the fvck! People plot to blow up hundreds of people and spread fear and hate because of racism? No boatmyfriend: they do it because they’re fvck1ng evil, they do it because they’re wicked and evil and they have decided that our disgusting wicked Western World (everyone in the kjnow understands that it’s a north/ south not west/ east thing but then these people don’t think do they? they kill instead)needs to fall.
They hate Queers, they hate Women, they hate Jews, they hate other Muslims who do not agree with them.
You want to know what causes Terrorism? Laws that allow someone preaching the use of violence against Jews and Queers to tell people to go out and carry out Terrorist atrocities. Laws that mean the police do NOTHING about this.
Wars in the Muslim world cause Terrorism, telling Women in the police force to wear head scarfs when they raid Mosques (trust me this has happened) cause Terrorism NOT unemployment. I was out of work for nearly four years but I didn’t blow up passenger flights.
I’ve looked this guy up (the Bristol one.)
He was a upper middle class public schoolboy working alone NOT a disenfranchised Muslim suffering the bigotry associated with anyone who looks kinda A-rab (I’ve had friends who HAVE suffered this so don’t accuse me of racism.)