sure, stock them right beside the books claiming obama was born in kenya, books by david irvine, stuff on creationism, flat earth science books and david ike.
the ‘stuff to point and laugh at’ section.
This is not even worth a discussion. Propaganda for dangerous quack therapies do not belong in a library. The American Psychological Association has condemned these procedures, and thus it would be irresponsible for a library to stock this material. Similar titles could include “Purging: Vomit Your Way To A Healthier You” and “How I Got Over My Yellow Fever: A Concise Guide To Overcoming Unwanted Desires For Ethnic Minorites And Keeping The White Race Pure”.
Books like these do not belong in a library. …Maybe only in a “point-and-laugh” section, like xaria suggested. ;)
PFOX is known for distributing bad and inaccurate information about the gay community. The only place the library should store anything that PFOX advocates is in the fiction section.
The question is, do these people exist or not? If not, why silence them? If there were no demand, there would be no supply
Sure! Free speech and all! You can put it next to Mein Kampf!
The article stated that there were no “ex-gay” authors in the library. How do they know? Do they have a list of them? It must be a small group of people who have denied their own nature. In any case, any book by an “ex-gay” author should be scrutinized to the utmost and placed in the appropriate category “fiction”.
This is a safety issue for LGBT people. When ex-gay therapy is reported by the APA as quackery, and ineffective at best and leading to emotional damage and suicide at the worst, then there is absolutely no reason to house this trash in a public library! I don’t see how this library (which is also supported by gay tax dollars) can keep this crap in good conscience.
To be fair, we must protect free speech.
I would suggest putting ex-gay books into the Crock Pot recipes section, along with one called ‘How to Turn Yellow Cake into a Nuclear Bomb for Dummies’.
That is nothing new. In the name of diversity, a few people have used this subterfuge to tell libraries they should stock white supremacist material.
Put them under the ‘Greatest lies ever told’ section.
So the APA says there is no evidence? Is this the same organisation that said for 30 years that you are born homosexual and this year said you are not?
Of course they have to explaim away people like Sy Rogers, who said all he had ever known was an attraction to men. When he converted to Christianity he lost his attraction to men. He has been married for over 25 years and has a daughter.
Or Graham,the young man I prayed for and within two years he was married and had children.
Or another young man Tim, who was able to reject his homosexuality with my help and get married and have children.
Or another young man named Rod in his 20s who was desperate not to be homosexual. I counselled him out of the condition and now he is married with four children.
Your theory is blown out of the water unless you can prove These examples didn’t happen which of course you can’t.
upandatem – can you cure my lefthandedness? or is that an acceptable part of your world?
Thank you for that comprehensive list of, er, well not sure what your point is really. You haven’t proved anything, anybody can put a list of names up, along with spurious stories about how they were ‘cured’.
Furthermore if, as you claim, these are real case studies you obviously know nothing of the need for confidentiality; naming patients is something that every qualified counsellor knows not to do, other than in a few cases. Posting to an internet site would not be one of those.
You, like all the other ex-gay advocates, are a quack.
And a dangerous one.
As there is no such thing as ‘ex’-gay (it just seems to be celibacy) there must be a number of books by celibate writers in thelibrary (presumaly in the religion section of the library and that more than satisfies any need for ‘balance’ and ‘diversity’.
What you have proved Upandatem, if anything, is that gay people are as capable of exhibiting heterosexual behaviours as anyone when culture and religion demand it of them. They were doing it for generations before your charlatantry was dreamed up. It does not remotely mean that they stop being who they are or feeling what they feel – just that a large part of themselves has to be devalued and denied. And/or that they acquire the spouse and kids and carry on tricking and cruising, as many supposedly ‘ex-gay’ God-botherers have been shown to do.
where do you think Edward III came from? Edward II (one of England’s gayest monarchs) fathered him at the same time as shagging with Piers Gaveston.
One can fuck the sex you’re not sexually attracted to if there’s enough reason (keeping the line going, hiding from bigotry, crawling to a samll-minded god and his grovellers, etc, etc…)
“Is this the same organisation that said for 30 years that you are born homosexual and this year said you are not?”
And the catholic church, is this not the same organisation that said the earth was flat and the sun went around the earth, for over 1900 years?
Its called progress. Ideas and knowledge are not immutable, and if you had half a brain you’d know that.
Upandatem, can you tun a straight person gay by prayer? Maybe if he really wants to go into fashion or something like that? Or would you need to use necromancy in order to achieve that? How much do you charge your clients for your services?
I can relate to your stories though. A man with strong will has also turned me straight once. He was not my type yet he really wanted a date. At the end I had to tell him I was straight. Unfortunately, it went away very quickly.
As any therapist knows it’s possible to change behavior but not sexuality. In my London practice I used to help str8 guys who were renting to “perform” but they were still heterosexual.
Libraries function to provide books, not to be political entities. Where else can you get and read a book that you disagree profoundly with and avoid paying the author or publisher anything?
Yep. That’s the wonderful thing about logic and the scientific method: you follow the theories for which there are greater evidence, correcting and improving on what has been done before in order to get a better picture of reality. Compare this with religious fundamentalism, where ideas (as interpreted by various individuals) are believed to be sacred and unquestionable.
You’re a cretin.
…Was my spam-filter code. Tee-hee! Whippet country! :)
By equal standing, is it possible to have ex-straights? I know many a ‘bisexual’ who finally owned up, through the power of the spirit (Vodka/Red Bull) and the good book (Boyz)to being a down-to-Earth God-fearing take-it-where-it-hurts faggot.
From personal experience it took me 31 years to finally face the fact I was gay. Trying to bury the idea or fool yourself into thinking you can lead a ‘normal’ life only sit and fester inside you and can eventually eat you alive. These ‘ex-gays’ will either lead unfulfilled and hollow lives, or eventually revert to their true natural destiny. That is something you, I or some fictitious deity can do absolutely nothing about.
I’ve heard of people doing that, too. I don’t get why anybody would want to pretend they’re bisexual just to avoid admitting they’re gay. I mean, come on! You’ve already admitted you’re not straight, doesn’t that already make you enough of a “deviant” to just come clean? Seems like it really is just self-denial, like people admit they’re attracted to their own sex, but still want to think they can settle down and have a “normal” life.
There’s a very easy test for bisexuality: are you sexually attracted to people of either sex? If yes, you are bisexual. If no, then you are not. Seems so simple when I put it like that, but those in denial still get it wrong. The mind’s a funny old thing, isn’t it?
I have nothing against people who are “questioning” or “bicurious” – there’s such pressure to find your sexuality quickly and settle into it rigidly, whereas the healthier option would be to take your time, browse around, try new things, and discover what it is you REALLY like. If I’d taken the time to really question myself during adolescence, then I could have discovered I was bisexual back then, rather than thinking I just liked girls right up until I was 20 (seems a bit young for regrets, but I’ve always been LGBT-friendly and had very open-minded friends, so it was a bit odd it took me so long). What I’m getting at is that thinking you’re something you’re not, or just trying it on for size, is perfectly OK – the problems start when it’s just an act of denial. That’s unhealthy, and that’s what these ex-gay creeps support.
12-Such a childish and supercilious comment. However, it does reveal that your understanding of the situation is minus 10.
13-I am happy for you to prove they are spurious. Of course you can’t so your comment is totally ridiculous and self serving and proves that you don’t have anything sensible to say.
13-Your ignorance is showing. I have read hundreds of stories in the newspapers and magazines that are about people who have been counseled. For confidentiality they just change the name. You have no idea who these guys are by me giving them a first name. Just stop being so churlish and boring and trying to score points just for the sake of it. Apart from the fact that you have made it obvious that you are up the creep without a paddle.
13-And all the people that say you are born that way are quacks.
13-And they are very, very dangerous and posturing ignoramuses
15-You do talk such bunkum don’t you. If that is the best you can do it would be better if you went back to the loony bin.
15-Such unmitigated rubbish. You really do have a big damaged ego.
15-So boring and pathetic.
16-Another pathetic and totally irrelevant comment from someone who is so screwed up he wouldn’t know Arthur from Martha.
17-So boring and pathetic although it is rather interesting that you place your friends at the APA on the same level as the Catholic Church.
17-And if you had half a brain which you obviously do not, in another place on this site the statement by the APA has been ridiculed because they changed their mind. So much for your so called “progress.” Admit it, you change the story every time just to suit your deluded minds. Thanks anyway that you have confirmed what the APA said is right. Nice to know that they have finally realised that you are not born a homo.
18-Better get back to your sandpit as this is obviously way over your head.
18-In the words of one homo who believes that he knows everything and no one else knows anything-LIAR!
19-I would like to know how you know the views of every therapist on the planet. I know you don’t, it is just a throwaway line to make you look superior, and which shows you don’t know what you are talking about.
19-What London practice?
20-Your theory is blown out of the water unless you can prove these examples didn’t happen which of course you can’t. And thanks for confirming that you are not born homo.
20-”Cretin-Literally a Christian, hence a human being.” (Websters Dictionary) That is the first thing that you have said that is correct.
21-Bully for you. That’s the stuff of real solid research which all reputable organisations base their findings on.
21-As you don’t believe in God, why are you worried about what he can or cannot do? Nice to know you are a world authority on people you have never met and have no idea what their lives are like. You must believe in ESP.
22-How do you know? You have never met any of them? You’re just parroting the same old trash that is put up by deluded homos who can’t face the fact that they believe a lie.
20-Your theory is blown out of the water unless you can prove these examples didn’t happen which of course you can’t.
Burden of proof is on those claiming they have the proof. Just try and prove that I don’t have evidence that the Flying Spaghetti Monster thinks you’re an unfortunate accident (at the time, it was very drunk).
And thanks for confirming that you are not born homo.
How’d I do that?
What are you talking about now, ex-gays? How do I know what? That their lives are unhealthy? Because denial is very dangerous and unhealthy. And, seeing as how conversion therapy has never been proven to work, and how the mainstream psychological institutions are totally against it, it is quite clear that these people are living in denial.
24-it is evident that you are living in denial because the facts don’t confirm your screwed up view of life. Until you can prove that these things didn’t happen, and you have proof what I said is not true beyond twittering on about what some institution said and you have proof that they are living in denial which you can’t, what you have said is complete and utter trash, fuelled to protect a damaged ego that can’t face reality and the saddest thing is that you are too psychologically damaged and deluded to realise it.
Upandatem, you really need to understand what controversy is about – if you assert that a controversial thing is so (in this case, that sexual orientation can be changed voluntarily) the burden rests with you to prove it, not with others to prove a negative. The current state of affairs is that even if what you assert be true, there is no convincing evidence for it. Evidence which cites people denying a feeling from within a cultural and religious context whose approval they seek, and which heavily stigmatises the feeling under consideration, must be heavily suspect.
I would say that the more important question is why it matters. Why is a capacity for pleasurable and fulfilling relationships to be devalued because its basis could be changed? Why should anything be changed simply because it can? The real problem here is a religious ideology with an a priori hostility to homosexuality.