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British churches performing ‘exorcisms’ on gays

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  1. We need vicitms of this type of emotional, psychological and physical abuse to come forward so that we can prosecute these people . . .

    Be brave . . . if you have been abused in this way. Please report this to the police, without your testimony this abuse will continue!

  2. @ John K
    I would agree that this debacle is abuse and is a way of agrandising the authority of the so-called exorcists.
    The practice seems to have escalated since the founding of some new Pentecostal churches by African groups especially.
    Other reasons for exorcism include getting rid of the ‘spirit of poverty’, as these churches tend to preach what is termed as the ‘health and wealth gospel’.
    There was a high profile case some years ago involving a ‘healing ministry’ in Lancashire. A man complained after he was subjected to ribena being poured on his genitals to cure him from a ‘sexual spirit’. This made it into the local press and subsequently the group changed its methods because of the bad publicity.
    So yes,for all the vulnerable people who are being delivered from non-exsistent demons ,whether it be the ‘gay demon’ or the ‘cancer demon’ and who wake up the next day realising that they are not ‘cured’ ,and are then told that it is because of their ‘lack of faith’ that they are still the same – for all these people ,lets shut these shamans down.

  3. “Rev Ogbe-Ogbeide added that the procedure could be carried out at any age.”

    A “procedure”, he calls it!

    As if it were a harmless and routine practice as carried out in your local doctor’s surgery!

    It is not “a procedure”. It is a traumatic abuse of a vulnerable person.

    Yes, anyone who has been subjected to such “procedures” should get in touch with Stonewall and seek advice as to how to most effectively report the incident.

  4. Eddy I agree it does sound like Traumatic abuse . . . and in some cases victims may well be left with emotional and psychological problems similar to post-traumatic stress disorder PTSD.

    These people are dangerous and need to be stopped

  5. demons and wiches, I’m sorry but these people are delusional. They need certifying. It sounds more like an episode from Buffy The Vampire Slayer

  6. A list of some well known churches in London and the South-east known to be involved in the deliverance ministry (Exorcisms)

    *Icthus Christian Fellowship – Many churches in London
    *Holy Trinity Brompton – Home of the Alpha course (CofE)
    *New Frontiers – southeast/London
    *Kensington Temple – Elim pentacostal church
    *Asemblies of God Churches – many pentacostal churches in london
    *St Marks Kennington – CofE

  7. Robert, ex-pat Brit 23 Jul 2009, 1:42pm

    The real demons are the ones performing mumbo jumbo exorcisms, they should be prosecuted for mental and physical abuse against the victims. Freedom of religion (cultism) is one thing but abuse of people is quite another. Time to ban this appalling practice or shut down their place of worship.

  8. Rev Ogbe-Ogbeide sound more like a Voodoo witch Dr and his practises are the same! Does he cut the head of a chicken and wave spells over people! This is an outrage to common human rights and just as much a crime as female genital mutilation which is also some sort of strange practise carried out by sad people; its child abuse!

  9. These people should be in prison for child abuse. We need some specific legislation to criminalise this activity.

  10. When I looked at this article, which fills me with dread that people could do this to other people, I found myself looking at Google generated ads for The Bible and other religious books!!! How sick are the admen at Google to put such things around an article about abusive behaviour perpetrated by so called Christians…

  11. Commander Thor 23 Jul 2009, 2:44pm

    Let’s burn virgins, I say!

  12. “Rev Ogbe-Ogbeide sound more like a Voodoo witch Dr and his practises are the same!”
    Absolutely! I think the Rev should keep his cultural baggage to himself or else have some deliverance ministry! :)

  13. Oh well, as I’m both a lesbian and a witch, looks like I’m completely f**ked.

  14. We can’t allow this kind of Voodo practice in this country. It has to be stopped. In Africa and Haiti they inflict cruelty on animals as well as people by holding chicken’s heads in a fire while still alive. The result – the person isn’t cured by this nonsense while the animal suffers an agonising death. So much for the wonders of religion and the compassion and kindness it spreads. Now we are even more aware of the battle we have in our multi-racial schools combatting homophobia. God or somebody save us from these nutters.

  15. @John K
    There is a bigi difference between deliverance ministry and Exorcisms such as these.

    Neither is it right to imply that a church that does deliverance ministry does exorcisms for sexuality or tries to turn people straight.

    Seeing as 99% of UK churches see sexuality as something fixed these gay exorcisms are very strange and not really in keeping with most people who call themselves Christians would call the faith. No doubt somebody will say in a moment that it’s because they’re African Christians and therefore backwards, common racism etc.

    Also I notice the article starts by saying “A number of fundamentalist Christian churches” but then goes on to talk about only one church.

  16. ‘like a voodoo witchdoctor’

    dont badmouth voodoo, its one of the few LGBTQI friendly religions out there!

  17. It’s not enough to pass comment. The victims of this abuse are being scarred and we have to stop this. Where are the legal protesters. the street campaigns. The men and women of God who can renounce this for what it is horror!
    We need the entire country to revolt.

  18. Earwig.!
    Oh..!!
    Again…!!!

    Can’t be bothered to comment; just canNOT be ckuffing ARSED..!

    Well, I could, but I’d be banged up on a differently worded abuse charge.
    Orff to Thailand for a month / 6 weeks the Land of Smiles, of imminent civil strife, lavvly san, equally lavvly yang men and what was it that the Pope called Buddhism..?
    Ah yes!

    “Mental masturbation…”… or some such dolloper’s comment.

    Sorry to misquote the lace-bedecked old fart but I can’t be bothered with her, yes HER, any more either, or ‘er pronouncements, or the pronouncements of the Right Reverend Ali Nazi-Ragbrain, or bleeding Christian/Muslim/Children of the Book Europe… ENNEEEE ckuffin’ MORE..!

    Stuff it…Q’ran/Bible/Catechism… BUY ONE, GET TWO FREE …all the lot…page by page…one at a time…sideways up Chocolate Valley.

    If it’s mental masturbation, that Buddhism lark, well then I’ll go and have some of that.

    Bollox to the lot here.
    Bollox to the rain.
    Bollox to Brown.
    Bollox to Mandelsson.
    Bollox to Hazel “it-wasn’t-me guv” Blears.
    In fact……
    BLOOXOCKSOKS to the bleedin’ lot.
    Ta-raaa.!

    Keith.
    SALFORD….but not for a while..

  19. When was I transported back to the middle ages? What the f–k!! Now why do I hate religion again?

  20. As a guy man, I consider that as abuse. I am a happy practicing Christian who
    trusts my church. I am old enough to to realise to know that the influence those sick in North America is taking root here in UK too.
    Don

  21. 1. Those carrying out these so-called ‘exorcisms’ should be charged with assault.
    2. Any church found to be carrying out these so-called ‘exorcisms’ should immediately lose its charitable status.

    and finally, these SO-CALLED Christians should pay more attention to the example of Christ and less heed to their personal/cultural prejudices. When the Roman Centurion asked Christ to heal his male servant [a well-known euphemism for young (gay) lover] Christ did so without any condemnation whatsoever.

  22. Dominick J. 23 Jul 2009, 4:53pm

    I’m sorry but these churches and like organizations just show how backward and stupid in their thinking they are by using rites that are over 3000 years old and mainly was used to rid a person of demons NOT to change their sexual orientation!! ASSHOLES that they are are showing the world, let me reitierate here, just how stupid in their thinking they are!!

  23. Brian Burton 23 Jul 2009, 6:24pm

    This is all so very stupid. So much so that I cannot drum up enough enthusiasum to comment!

  24. Keith, have a lovely time in Thailand. Drum up enough happiness to last you through the next long English winter!

  25. JohnF wrote
    There is a big difference between deliverance ministry and Exorcisms such as these.

    Neither is it right to imply that a church that does deliverance ministry does exorcisms for sexuality or tries to turn people straight.

    Seeing as 99% of UK churches see sexuality as something fixed these gay exorcisms are very strange and not really in keeping with most people who call themselves Christians would call the faith. No doubt somebody will say in a moment that it’s because they’re African Christians and therefore backwards, common racism etc.

    Also I notice the article starts by saying “A number of fundamentalist Christian churches” but then goes on to talk about only one church

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    JohnK’s response

    Deliverance and exorcisms operate on the premise that there is a supernatural world of demonic entities which can be expelled by drawing on the name if Jesus . . . you seem to be quibbling over something. Perhaps you are a Fundamentalist Christians who believes in demons

    There is a long detailed and chronicled history connected with Churches which practice deliverance and exorcisms, and hold views that gays should be cleansed of demons or giving therapy to change to heterosexuality. Deliverance and exorcisms does not correlate with liberal Christianity which generally do not hold such view about gays or indulge in medieval practices.

    “Seeing as 99% of UK churches see sexuality as something fixed.” It might be disturbing for you to be told this . . . but they do not. Most Fundamentalist churches which are on the rise in the UK take the view the homosexuality is not fixed can be cured psychologically or spiritually.

    One other note the article may only mention one Fundamentalist church. . . I have mentioned a number of others in thread 6

  26. #24
    Oh, Eddy!
    Thank you so much..!
    I always do whenever I go.
    K

  27. #23
    Now Brian BURTON..!

    You just STOP pinchin’ my lines, d’ya heeeeeeaarrrrrr…???!!
    That’s just wot I said…!

    Get yer arses over to Thailand wi’ me, you and your hunky-chunks boyff…and leave these fundy loo-loos plucking fevvers…an’ weevin’ spells..!

    Bowlox to the lot from Brown in No. 10 to the runes-casters that JohnK delineates in the wider Metrollopse at #6..

    …and may the lesser purple-breasted Rochester loon mizzle up its own back-passage..rapidus..rapider…rapidissimus…

    Keith.
    SALFORD….but not after Sunday….

  28. Keith
    “Rune-casters” sounds quite cute . . . if only

  29. James Lees 23 Jul 2009, 8:25pm

    I’m very concerned about the advert for some church which appears beside the article. Do you really thnk you should have accepted it? People – even one person – might believe it, you never know.

    As to the article, yes, I ususlly think that churches are best left to become naturally extinct, but the news lately has not been good. This and the boy who has been forced into a “therapy” camp are extremely abusive and need to be sorted out.

  30. Eagle Ashcroft 23 Jul 2009, 9:10pm

    Who is really crazy here? Witches and demons? Come on no adult in their right mind actually believe in such childish nonsense as witches and demons or changing one’s sex by some hocus pocus magic. These people are completely mad and need to be placed away in some mental ward to be given shock treatments. Now I know here in America people are backward enough to believe in such rubbish and permit it to go on, but I thought the British were smarter than that and no Brit in their right mind would allow such crazies to carry on in their civilized country. These radical religious terrorist ought to be deported to Iran with the rest of the crazy religious nut cases. If they are actually successful in changing some one’s sex without surgery I wonder if they can change the loud barking Chihuahua dogs next door to me into birds by just praying? In fact if they have this kind of power what do they need with a god? It seems they are the gods, crazy mixed up mad gods.

  31. IAIN Wrote

    “I would agree that this debacle is abuse and is a way of agrandising the authority of the so-called exorcists.

    The practice seems to have escalated since the founding of some new Pentecostal churches by African groups especially.

    Other reasons for exorcism include getting rid of the ‘spirit of poverty’, as these churches tend to preach what is termed as the ‘health and wealth gospel’.

    There was a high profile case some years ago involving a ‘healing ministry’ in Lancashire. A man complained after he was subjected to ribena being poured on his genitals to cure him from a ‘sexual spirit’. This made it into the local press and subsequently the group changed its methods because of the bad publicity.

    So yes,for all the vulnerable people who are being delivered from non-exsistent demons ,whether it be the ‘gay demon’ or the ‘cancer demon’ and who wake up the next day realising that they are not ‘cured’ ,and are then told that it is because of their ‘lack of faith’ that they are still the same – for all these people ,lets shut these shamans down.”

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    JohnK’s response

    Iain, I agree, with your idea of exorcism as a “way of aggrandising the authority of the so-called exorcists.” . . . as I see it based on the subjugation, vilification and abasement of the exocisee who is forced into an abject position for the exorcists and congregations aggrandisement

    I agree there does appear to be an increase in this activity coming from African based churches, but it is already here and has been for a long time in mainstream churches. One of the Evangelical theological training colleges in the Anglican Church (Wycliffe Hall in Oxford) teaches demon based ontology in its ministry classes.

    I am all for exposing the medieval and abusive practices of these churches

  32. So little is known about persons who would acquiesce to this kind of exorcisms. The last time we had a a story like this, we read about a young man (victim) who had returned three times to the same kind of abuse.

    There’s a missing piece of the puzzle somewhere. Why is there a ‘market’ for this garbage?

    We don’t know enough about the positive effects voodoo can have either.

  33. hmm i rember not so long agao people on this site were calling every one In Northre Ireland bigiots and zelatos oh my but what do we have here (im kidding guys) i dot judge anyone but stuff like this does not shock me all i will say is intolerance is the key to hate and wars tolerance is the key to love and peace and diversty scoiety as a whole depends on tolerance (blessings of love and light)
    Bri

  34. “stuff like this does not shock me”

    Why are you not shocked by people being abused emotionally, psychologically and physically in the name of relgion?

  35. most Religions have cost wars and killed millions though out the ages yes i am a pagan but some pagan faiths in histroy has been just as bad as some christians

    one more reason why im not shocked as we as humans have always abused others sadly thats ture and it may keep on for as long as we are alive yes im sadend by news like this but it does not shock me for thoose reasons my heart goes out to all who suffer Blessings of love and light

  36. @John K
    Thanks John,
    You are right that this practice has been here long before the African based prosperity churches.But much of the ontology is the result of the ‘paradigm shift’ that came into many churches through ‘Third Wave’ teachers such as C Peter Wagner.
    These teachers introduced practices that originated in the African continent and synthesised them into mainstream evangelicalism.(‘Power Encounters’ – as they described them)
    Before this,you would only find this kind of teaching in the likes of Elim Pentecostals.
    Since 1994 and a movement known as the ‘Toronto Blessing’ many of the Charismatic churches have simply lost the plot and the focus has shifted from epistemology to experience and a whole host of weirdness.

  37. This is nothing new anyone who has heard of the ‘new frontiers movement as it was known, or EGF in Eltham as it was known was doing this over 20 yrs ago ! I should know I went through it !!! and I will never forget but I can and do help others that have been through it.

  38. Simon Murphy 24 Jul 2009, 12:26am

    These people believe that the son of ‘god’ came to earth and died for our ‘sins’ by being crucified and after 3 days he rose from the dead and that after we die we will join him in heaven.

    Why would anyone be surprised by the insane rituals of these nutters.

  39. Jennifer Ju 24 Jul 2009, 2:12am

    To be a sexy lesbian, I had been seeking my lesbian lover for long time. But there is no results. Until that day, I found my ideal lesbian lover on Pinksingles.com where I know lots of lesbian friends. N
    ow my lover with me are enjoy our happiness on it. Are u a lesbian too? Maybe you are seeking.

  40. Isn’t this more commonly known as Ex-Gay Ministry, or Reparative Therapy? There are harmful organizations like this everywhere!

  41. Reverand Oogala Boogala should wing his way back to Voodooland

  42. One is beginning to wonder at the credibility of Jessica Geen’s copy, 1st it was a group of 12 militants being the largest Trans representative group in London, now we’re hearing of people being the subject of Excorcisms! Who in their right mind would let themselves be exorcised? Time for Ms Geen to move on I feel, I’m sure the Daily `Mail will give her a job! As a publication you will only continue to maintain credibility if your correspondents publish stories of a credible nature!

  43. I have a small question – is there a website listing all the homophobic religious organisations, businesses, political parties, politicians etc so we know which to avoid? And if so, is this ‘church’ on that list? So much is hidden under the cloak of religion.

  44. AS21 – When the Roman Centurion asked Christ to heal his male servant [a well-known euphemism for young (gay) lover]

    ha ha ha he he he haw haw haw ho ho ho

    JL29 – As to the article, yes, I ususlly think that churches are best left to become naturally extinct,

    Sorry to burst your bubble JL, but the churches that are growing at a rate of knots are those who believe what the bible says, not what the homonazis say.

    EA30 – These people are completely mad and need to be placed away in some mental ward to be given shock treatments

    This comment shows that you haven’t got a clue what your talking about. Then, you have never let the truth get in the way of a good story have you.

    JK34 – Why are you not shocked by people being abused emotionally, psychologically and physically in the name of relgion?

    I know that truth is not high on your agenda, you prefer to live in la la land, but here it is.

    A young man came to me and said he was homosexuals and didn’t want to be. Please Note HE CAME TO ME. I explained to him that Jesus cleanses us from all sin and unrighteousness (I say this as you keep rabbiting on about following the example of our founder)and that he could be free from the spirit that was inhabiting him.

    I asked him if that is what he wanted and he said yes. I aske him if he would like to me pray for him and get rid of the demon. he said yes. Please note: IT WAS HIS CHOICE. NO ONE WAS FORCING HIM TO DO ANYTHING.

    I laid hands on him prayed and a demon left his body. He was so glad to be free of it he cried with relief.

    Six months later I saw him, with a girlfriend. Ayear later this girlfriend was his wife. Another year later he was the father of a beautiful baby.

    At no time was he abused emotionally, psychologically or physically. Everything that happened did so because he asked for it to happen.

    I await you superciliious and dimisive comment to convince me it never happened.

  45. SM38-These people believe that the son of ‘god’ came to earth and died for our ‘sins’ by being crucified and after 3 days he rose from the dead and that after we die we will join him in heaven.

    Where is your proof SM that this did not happen? I know that you don’t have any but you don’t, that is why you say such stupid things.

    SU37-This is nothing new anyone who has heard of the ‘new frontiers movement as it was known, or EGF in Eltham as it was known was doing this over 20 yrs ago !

    Actually, Jesus was doing it 2,000 years ago. I say this as you are so determined to insist that we do what our founder did.

  46. Commander Thor 24 Jul 2009, 7:28am

    upandatem, there are fairies at the bottom of my garden, that speak to me every night. They tell me you are a monster.

    Only a year ago, I would have come to you, apparently voluntarily, for a cure. Now, is that really voluntarily? After 10 years of mental abuse at being told homosexuals were sinful monsters, compared to paedophiles, perverts and others?

    What a good idea – make people feel crap about themselves and make them seek out the magical cure – oh, at a price, of course.

    About your ex-gay, how long will he last before a “relapse” and get caught/blackmailed for having sex with a man, on the side?

    An ex-gay is like a person who decides to live underwater. After years of “treatment”, through prayers and breathing techniques, he vaillantly holds his head submerged, tries to forget about how good it was up there on land, and succeeds marvellously well until he suddenly relapses, jerks his head up, breathes a big gulp of air, then goes back to being an underwater person. The therapy worked afterall.

  47. Lilith; don’t worry; I’ve known a few pagan witches and you are noting like this mad Rev who wants to abuse people’s human rights; pagans, it seems to me, are the most honest religion!

  48. Rick George 24 Jul 2009, 9:00am

    surprise, surprise, another argument against faith schools. Ive been aware of certain organisations in this country for years. I wasnt surprised to see New Frontiers mentioned in an earlier post (6, John K). There must be grounds to outlaw this. Im writing to my MP for starters.

  49. Drew Payne 24 Jul 2009, 9:04am

    Twenty years ago I had an “exorcism” to turn me straight, it failed but it left me very damaged and afraid to tell anyone what happened to me. This type of emotional abuse has been practiced by Evangelical Christians, in Britain, for years, and not just in the churches of London. It is part of their struggle for power, which they have never lost a liking for, but it leaves behind thousands of damaged souls. I wish that exorcism had never happened to me.

  50. #49
    Yes, Drew, I almost had the same.
    Mine was 50 years ago and I was told by the priest, in the confessional, to go and get electro-convulsive ‘therapy’

    I sat at the back of the church, ‘a-mulling’ saying my 3 Hail Mary’s or whatever..and decided within about 30 seconds….”NO! NO!! NO!!!”
    I got up and walked out of the church (the building) and the Church (the RCC) there and then and have never been in a church since; that was 1959…long before the repeal of all the legislation, before Wolfenden, before Stonewall…

    I had the nouse at that young age to say “NO”.

    I didn’t know what I was saying when I said “NO” but I said it anyways…and I am glad to God I did because I knew, when I read your contribution, that had I followed that arsehole’s advice in the confessional, I too would have been damaged as you were; left a gibbering idiot.

    I cannot find capital letters big enough, or pots of red paint sufficient enough to write CKUFFFFF the Catholic Church and ALL religion; ALL of it.

    Keith.
    SALFORD.

  51. @Drew Payne

    I am sorrry to here that you were subjected to this type of religous abuse, and that your sexuality was attacked and denigrated by religous people. I am also sad to here that you still feel traumatized by the attempted exorcism of your homosexuality.

    Thanks for reaching out to others who have been abused in this way by sharing your story

  52. Upandatem:

    Where did you go? I was just about to give you a few pounds (you can take that any way you like) and remind you that Jesus and John were lovers to the very end. But I know you are not inclined to take the Bible literally, so how about 5 pounds?

  53. @IAIN – Thread 36

    I understand that some of the charismatic renewal within the Anglican Church also came from this third wave, and in particular the Vineyard Christian Fellowship under John Wimber’s leadership.

    For example St Andrews (Chorley Wood-Buckinghamshire) invited Wimber over in the late 80s, which them initiated a charismatic revival in the church akin to the Elim Pentecostal movement: speaking in tongues, slaying in the spirit, deliverance and exorcism practices becoming part of church worship – and all indicators of a return to medieval ontological preoccupation with devils and demons.

    IAIN. . . the “Toronto Blessing” phenomena is interesting . . . but I wonder how much of this is behind the Alpha movement in this country. Perhaps you have also been aware of how the Rev Nicky Gumble has colonised many Anglican churches in London with the Fundamentalist-Charismatic-Evangelical . . . “Alpha Course”.
    Perhaps you are also aware that its central premise as you mentioned earlier is also a “Power encounter” leading to Baptism in the spirit, with its manifestation of being able to speak in tongues. In the light of this ontological view of forces of good and evil, I also suspect deliverance and exorcism to be a counter current movement informing church practices.

    Another concern I have about the growth of Alpha in London is its attitude towards homosexuality . . . IAIN – I was wondering what your thoughts are on this movement.

  54. Ian M Laughlin 25 Jul 2009, 2:41am

    Hello John K. I am aware of the Alpha Movement spreading its dangerous wings through otherwise quite moderate congregations in other parts of the country. Some anecdotal evidence suggests that they may be toning down the homophobic aspects of their ideology in order to appeal to liberal Christians and people who are just exploring different ideas.

  55. I found these two worrying organisations who offer cay cure!

    truefreedomtrust.co.uk/basis.html

    U-turn Anglia trust based in Ipswich

    Anybody know anything about them?

  56. Hi Abi1975

    I have heard of “Truefreedomtrust”, which has been around for roughly twenty years now.

    As far as I know it used to be run by a one man band who has been very active in promoting Ex-Gay therapy in Evangelical Christian circles.

    There have been a number of high profile suicides involving young men who have allegedly sort counselling with truefreedomtrust.

    A quite nasty insidious and warped one man band . . .

    Unfortunately, the recent gay cure conference in Marsham Street Central London led by Narth, is testimony to the growth of Ex-Gay groups in the UK; and how they are becoming organised as in the USA. . . mainly supported by a fringe group in the Anglican church called Anglican Mainstream

  57. Eagle Ashcroft 25 Jul 2009, 10:00pm

    Its strange how gullible people are; they read a book and believe every word of it just because millions of others do. Only insecure people would believe in fairy tales to be reality. The world is filled with people who do not know the difference between reality and fantasy. After reading the long list of comments here it seems many persons who read this gay online newspaper also believe in these same fairy tales. Now everyone at one time or the other has had an imaginary friend, but when they take this imaginary friend to hurt innocent people then they have gone too far, and its time to give it up. Witches, demons, gods, goddess, fairies and angels are only imaginary beings and do not exist beyond the human mind and to believe in them is just fine but when your belief turns into hate and violence then it is wrong. I have lived upon this old earth close to eighty years and have traveled the world and have attended just about every kind of religious organization that exist and have nothing against any of them except those that single out minorities to rent their rage and violence against the innocents of others. This is pure evil in its worst form and anyone supporting such practices is pure nuts and needs to be removed from decent society gay or not. Religion has killed more people than nature and religion has destroyed more minds than disease.

  58. Eagle Ashcroft 25 Jul 2009, 10:15pm

    “EA30 – These people are completely mad and need to be placed away in some mental ward to be given shock treatment
    This comment shows that you haven’t got a clue what your talking about. Then, you have never let the truth get in the way of a good story have you.”
    Upandatem are you one of the fore-mentioned religious nuts that likes hurting innocent people because of your imaginary beliefs? If you are you’ve headed down a dirty evil path and you need to get your head on straight and wake up to the real world and stop hurting people because some day these same people may be the only people who you might have to go to in your time of need. Better to spread around love than hate and you will find the rewards far out weigh any hatred you can practice.

  59. @Upandatem – Thread 44

    The Royal College of psychiatrists has made a statement about reparative therapies.

    They state – there is no evidence for these therapies, and that these therapies if practiced are likely to lead to depression, anxiety and in some cases suicide.

    Upandatem . . . You continue to abuse people emotionally psychologically and spiritually because you are a Desperate Sick Evil person.

  60. Upandatem, Hank, Reality Check, David Skinner – whenever we see these names, we know that we are dealing with mentally ill, fanatical, fundamentalist homophobic bigots who are beyond any ability to drink and share the milk of human kindness. Hate mongers.

  61. @Eagle Ashcroft

    “These people are completely mad and need to be placed away in some mental ward to be given shock treatment”

    If only electricity could shock some sense in to them . . . But one thing is clear, they are truly shocking . . . as well as desperately sick evil people

  62. @Bentham

    “Upandatem, Hank, Reality Check, David Skinner”

    I have my eye on these crack pots and other like them too.

    Thanks for the Fundamentist crack pot head count
    We seem to be over run with them

  63. @John K
    The Alpha movement is a product of the ‘Toronto Blessing’ and as far as I am aware,many of the churches who buy into it do not buy into it completely. For instance the ‘Alpha Weekend’ is avoided by some due to its controversial pneumatology. This is the time when the students ‘encounter’ God in what usually results in some kind of emotional experience, of which I believe is very much the results of suggestive techniques. (” some of you might want to laugh or you may find yourself falling on the floor” )
    I think the problem for those who buy into this stuff is – If you believe this you will believe anything.
    A cursory glance at some of the programming on GOD TV proves this point.

  64. @IAIN

    It is interesting that not every one is buying into the “Charismatic” or “Power encounter” experiences on these Alpha Courses . . .

    I would refer to these experiences as “Collective hysterical fantasies” brought on by powerful suggestion and quasi hypnogogic states, induced by the hypnotic repetitive use of music and songs in worship

    To get back to the main element of this thread, what concerns me is where this Alpha movement is leading, and what it is enacting behind the scenes. Are we likely to find gay deliverance/exorcism in the Alpha movement?

  65. @John K

    “Are we likely to find gay deliverance/exorcism in the Alpha movement?”

    More likely post-Alpha and depending on the church that a person has attached themselves to. Remember that Alpha is basically a product that is sold to churches who may or may not agree with deliverance ministries.

  66. Where is this?
    Does anyone know where this is, I would love to attend this and be cured so I can lead a better life, gay life is crap and poor, and most respectiable gay people I have asked about this, said if it was posiable to be cured, they would.

    This is excelent stuff.

  67. @IAIN
    Post-Alpha sounds facinating . . . But in my experience too many posts tends to result in a rather small enclosed field.

    Where might you find one of these Post-Alpha Fanatical Funny Farms . . . I would love to understand more about their selective fundamentalism and Gay exorcisms.

  68. @John k
    Sorry John, you misunderstand me.
    Alpha is basically a product used by churches to teach Christianity to interested non-believers.
    Once people have done the course there is no more Alpha.If they stay with a church they will then be influenced by whatever that church teaches or does not teach concerning deliverance ministry and the like.
    But I do take your point about too many ‘Posts’ as I am very much a Post-Charismatic!

  69. Thanks IAIN for clarifying that and also all of your insights into these movements

    JK

  70. It’s actually very misleading to create the impression that this ‘deliverance’ practice (i.e exorcism-‘lite’) is something recent, and essentially foreign or exotic, or that it has been applied only to LGBT people – to their great harm – in these churches.

    I was involved in a Bible-cult type ‘church’ in the late 80’s-early 90’s. They called themselves charismatic-evangelical. It was my experience then that almost ALL similar churches (i.e. charismatic & pentecostal) believed evil spirits were pretty much ubiquitous, and exercised a ‘deliverance’ ministry on anyone who deviated from (their) church or bible teachings – and who could be persuaded to be exorcised, of course!

    Thus married women could be ‘delivered’ from a spirit of insufficient submissiveness, or ‘frigidity’. Married men considered insuffiently ‘strong-manly’ could be delivered from a spirit of weediness (or some such trumped-up charge!) and of course same-sex attracted people… well you know the rest.

    The list of supposedly demonically-inspired habits of thought, word or deed was limited only by the lurid imaginations of those exercising the ‘deliverance ministry’!

    A colleague’s sister-church had gone through a huge schism because the leader – who had obviously gotten so much power it had blown his mind – declared men’s wristwatches evil due to their ‘effeminacy’!!!

    It really is barking mad, this stuff – and it’s coming to a church near you, if it hasn’t already. More importantly, it has a very deleterious effect on the psychological and spiritual health of ALL those involved – not only on the ‘deliverees’, though they are most harmed by it.

    Can you imagine what the belief that ‘there are demons in the air’ and that anyone not a paid-up, born-again Christian must be considered a possible ‘mouthpiece of Satan’ can do to the mind of a CHILD???

    It’s horrifying.

    And it’s all based on a tissue of half-truths & lies.

  71. Excellent post, Rob Fox.

    I think all these churches feed on the weak and the insecure by making them feel special and different. Many of the members are looking for some kind of lead in their life, some kind of validation, and they’re ready to believe anything.

    “It really is barking mad, this stuff – and it’s coming to a church near you, if it hasn’t already”
    Horrifyingly, my girlfriend has just found out about a local church that she suspects is involved in some kind of gay conversion. Sickening.

  72. Rob Fox . . . Brillantly illustrates the level of . . .

    Paranoia, ignorance and mental instability in some of these churches that practice deliverance/exorcisms.

  73. Ah! those effeminate wrist watches!
    In my case it was a black ‘Joy Division’ t-shirt that got eyes popping.

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