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Gay partners of parents should have less rights, says report by former Tory leader

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  1. The Tories have not changed, in spite of Cameron’s kind words. This, and their Polish allies, are more proof of this.

  2. “fundamentally incompatible with the heterosexual reality of parentage”

    So what? This is the homosexual reality of parenting- not the same thing! Why does one have to fit in with the other? They are both equally valid.

    It is a principle of equality at stake. If a straight couple has IVF using donor sperm then the husband (who is not the biological father) is named as the father. Only in the same situation can a lesbian partner of a woman having IVF be named as a parent, so that is equal.

    If the Tories get in they will change this- the first chipping away of our equality.

    The issue needs to be addressed from a different angle examining the rights of the child. It is in the child’s interests to have a record of who his/her biological parents are. In some situations this information could be life-saving and it is wrong to deny people information about their genetic heritage. So the birth certificate should state biological mother and biological father and have two more spaces for other parents. The form should then indicate which of the adults claim parental responsibility. This would cut out the need for the complication of Parental Orders. It also doesn’t assume that the biological parents will have any parental responsibility. If someone has used an egg donor or sperm donor this can be recorded. If it is a co-parenting situation then this can be taken into account as well. This would simplify things.

    We no longer have donor anonimity in the UK so I don’t know how that would be handled. I assume the name wouldn’t actually go on, but would be a reference number so that information about donors could be sourced.

    Whatever happens it needs to be equal.

  3. Gene Touchet 17 Jul 2009, 3:20pm

    “…the heterosexual reality of parentage.” is a reality of conception, not necessarily of parentage.

  4. Vincent Poffley 17 Jul 2009, 3:26pm

    Infertile heterosexuals are biologically incapable of conceiving children. Does this mean that they will have the special discriminatory second class citizen status slapped on them too?

  5. “The heterosexual reality of parentage” is such an odd turn of phrase: the inclusion of heterosexual is a clear admittance that there are more general ‘realities’ of parentage, in which case it is a pointless citation because there is no explaination of why the heterosexual reality is most worthy of legislative attention.

    By definition, there is nothing anomalous about being divergent from something that is by there own admittance merely one instance of a larger classification: the color red isn’t anomalous for not being the color blue.

    But whatever the inadequacies, it is good to see the Conservative party showing their exclusionary nature once more: it seems too late in the game to stop them ‘winning’ the next General Election, but every LGBT vote not mis-cast in their favor is on vote closer to a coalition governemnt with the Lib Dems.

  6. If anyone ever doubted the tories haven’t changed their spots…

  7. Where is that rabid conservative supporter Sister Mary Clarence who fervidly believes that conservatives will not back track on gay rights? This has started already with the alliance with the Polish Homophobic party, and now with recommending the downgrading of gay rights. We must remember that Iain Duncan Smith is a Roman Catholic and brings all the evils of Roman Catholicism with him!

  8. Never Kissed a Tory 17 Jul 2009, 4:43pm

    Be afraid. be very afraid. If they are back in power, this is just the start. Their nutty nasty backbenchers will slowly start to propose their bonkers ideas, and we will have another Section 28 before we realise it. Then we’ll all be crying for Labour to come back. You don’t know what you’ve got till its gone!

  9. Justin Hinchcliffe 17 Jul 2009, 4:44pm

    Calm down, dears, this is just a *proposal* from an independent think tank. Yes, it is chaired by Iain Duncan-Smith but its finding have been supported and taken up by politicians of all parties.

  10. The fact that the report is called “Every Family Matters” (I believe, rather than “Family Matters” as the report says), speaks volumes. Because it’s not every family, is it? It is families with heterosexual couples in a heteronormative marriage headed by a male with female & children as subordinates. My family isn’t a “family” because I am not the biological offspring of my parents… and plenty of other functional, healthy families aren’t really “families” according to the Conservatives. The majority of families haven’t matched up to their ludicrous, outdated ideals of “family” for at least 50 years, and this is yet more proof (if I ever needed any) that the Conservatives are intent on chipping away at the rights of LGBT people.

    I can only conclude that any LGBT person who votes for them (and I know a couple) has serious issues with some sort of internalised homophobia and self-hatred…

  11. Paul Brownsey 17 Jul 2009, 5:44pm

    What an excellent post by Tony. The biological parents shouldn’t be airbrushed out of the picture, as though those in the *parenting* role were also the biological parents: “I’ve accepted you as my child so let’s pretend those others who were biologically involved never existed.”

  12. Independent think tank? Which dictionary are you using for your definition of independent? Name any one of its findings that have been supported, or taken up by anyone of the other two main parties front benches.

  13. Ian Duncan Smith M.P has a poor record equality, nearly as bad as Norman Tebbit. If the Tories get thier way they will dismantle all the equality ledgislation that has been archived in the last twelve years. Sadly my own Labour M.P, namely Geraldine Smith supports the stance taken by Ian Duncan Smith. The said Geraldine Smith has also voted against every equality Bill to come before the commons in the last twelve years. It not only Tories who are anti gay, we do have bigots in the Labour Party.

  14. Why is this silly little man so obsessed with the traditional family. Having lived amongst a whole estate of these traditional familes I can tell you Mr IDS that they are not working. If you thought more about love and respect, this is what really makes a child in to a decent human being , then you would be on the right track. As for you being in the conservative party, David should chuck you out along with Tebbet and the other old cronies.

  15. Brian Burton 17 Jul 2009, 9:05pm

    Ian Duncan Smith…Failed Tory Leader and failed politition is determined to make a name for himself some how. He’s chosen the vunrable to operate on.

  16. Ian Duncan -Smith is a Roman Catholic so this the same disgraceful homophobic garbage from Hitler’s Pope.The Roman Catholics, who form just 7% of the UK population, are quite simply a brainwashed and regimented minority who are being fed this line by the Vatican and the Hitler Jugend Ratzinger.The Nazi’s knew what they were doing – brainwash the kids and you have the man.This homphobic brainwashing and peddling of bigotry and prejudice is going on day in day out in Roman Catholic schools throughout Britain.It happens because the bigotry is cloaked in “religious belief”.Ratzinger broke his wrist today – what a pity he didn’t break his neck!

  17. Daniel Wilkes 17 Jul 2009, 9:36pm

    Iain Duncan Smith obviously didn’t learn from the first time he tried to deny gay people rights… you remember when he tried to enforce a three-line whip against gay people adopting? Michael Portillo led a campaign which resulted in so many Tory MPs voting against him on what they considered a matter of conscience (not party politics- one suspects that many of the rebels voted less *for* gay rights and more *against* IDS) that it sent him down the slippery slope to his political demise.

    “[T]he heterosexual reality of parentage” is among the most awful phrases I have ever read. Why does this matter so much? It’s almost as if Section 28 had never been repealed, this think tank still believes that homosexuality is a choice, and is terrified that it’s a choice that threatens the heterosexual norm. What does denying gay people the right to be registered as full parents of the surrogate children of their partners actually do? Does it make any real difference to the children? No. It’s aimed at showing gay people that their relationships are considered inferior (that they are free to love and have ‘equality’ only at the pleasure of the Government, not by right) and at appeasing the sensibilities of the “traditionalists”. It’s very old Tory… I just hope against hope that the almost-certain Cameron Conservative government won’t adopt such policies, as yet I am not convinced that it won’t.

  18. lesbians and gays who voted tory at the recent euro elections should be feeling slightly stupid!!!!

  19. By the way Daniel, in Conservative controlled Kent, the county council still has a Section 28-èsque regulation which forces schools to teach that only heterosexual marriage can make a healthy foundation for society.

    That said, there are some decent people in the Tory party – they have to be more vocal, and publicly distance themselves from this religiously based white noise.

  20. Philippa Stroud is the executive director and one of the founders of The Centre for Social Justice. She is a hard core evangelical christian who’s husband is a pastor and leader of the Newfrontiers group of churches who practice extreme American evangelical Christianity. She will be standing for parliament as a Conservative MP in the safe Sutton and Cheam seat and is tipped for a ministerial position in a Tory government.

    She has a history with us in Bedford and Birmingham where she would not allow LGBT people into nightshelters she founded operated through Newfrontiers churches.

    I have personal experience of her, as she was the so called Christian counsellor my parents took me to. I was subjected to what amounts to emotional and physical abuse in a attempt to cure me of being transsexual. It caused me untold emotional distress that at one point lead me to a attempt on my own life.

    The Centre for Social Justice say this about her position in the Conservative party:

    “In 2003 she became a founder of the Centre for Social Justice. In 2005 Philippa became the Director of the Conservative Party’s Social Justice Policy Group focusing on rethinking the Party’s approach to the family, education, addiction, debt and employment.”

    Its more solid proof at the core policy makers of the Conservative party do not have any desire for our rights. Given free reign they would strip every human right the LGBT have.

    David Cameron might be a nice bloke but he is just the cheep salesman. The people who hold the real power in the Conservative party are William Hague and Ian Duncan Smith both confirmed homophobes and evangelicals.

  21. lithotomist 18 Jul 2009, 9:10am

    Those idiotic ToryBoy apologists who crawl all over this site would do well to read and then absorb what Abi1975 wrote above; but instead they’ll just spout the same dishonest crap, designed to hoodwink gay voters into supporting a Tory party which is still fundamentally opposed to giving us equality. Sure, they want our votes; but they have no concept of our rights.

  22. Abi1975’s post is seriously alarming.

    Any more information on Philipa Stroud is most welcome – particularly the barring of LGBT people from night shelters, which is shameful. This should NOT go as simply a footnote on a comments thread.

    (sums up the real purpose of the night shelter I guess, an attempt to win converts in exchange for a meal and a bed – bribes and ultimatums. How unloving…)

  23. @ AdrianT

    If you do a search on the following you will find the info.

    The night shelter in Bedford is the kings arms project run by the kings arms church.

    The homeless project in Birmingham is called The Bridge run by the Oasis church.

    Philipa Stroud’s husband David Stroud runs a church called Christ Church that meets in the Piccadilly Theatre at
    16 Denman St, London.

  24. Very interested in what Abi1975 says. I hope Pink News will investigate this Philippa Stroud and her Centre for Social Justice. It does seem that the Conservatives are intent on turning the clock back on equality issues.

  25. Christina Engela 18 Jul 2009, 5:24pm

    Oh by all means, give gay people less rights – that’s always the answer, isn’t it? Fascists.

  26. @Abi1975

    Thankyou for the information about Philippa Stroud
    * Her involvement with the Centre for Social Justice.
    * Her involvement in the extreme church “Newfrontiers”
    * Her involvement in Exgay therapies
    * Her involvement in the exclusion of LGBT people from charity work

    This women needs “investigating further and exposing”

  27. Here is Mrs Stroud speaking at a recent conference, alongside anti-gay wingnut fanatical preachers:
    mobilise.xtn .org/events/seminars

    The reason why the Tories are so dangerous is not just because of the Hagues, Strouds and Duncan Smiths; it is because of the moderate wishy-washy Tory wets, who let these evangelicals take over. The gay tory blogger Iain Dale is one of the worst examples. Here is what he had to say about Phillippa Stroud’s selection 2 years ago:

    “Phillipa Stroud has been selected for Sutton & Cheam tonight. Phillipa is a leading light in the Centre for Social Justice and is a very worthy successor to the exellent Richard Willis, who decided not to fight the seat again….”

    A dangerous woman, and she’ll be in parliament next year.

  28. The somewhat ironic title ‘Centre for social justice’ in itself says alot about how the tory mashine approaches the generation of legislation. It’s a rightwing euphemism for “Protection of traditional family values” with a major Tory cabinet minister using it to usher in anti sexual minority legilsation ready for when they will hold real power.
    To all the Tory gays who read at this website – you havent got a leg to stand on and once again i say – dont say you weren’t told what this party are really about. But then never trust a gay tory who are always prepared to sacrifice their rights for the good of their party affliaitions.

  29. Mihangel apYrs 20 Jul 2009, 6:55am

    And all any new legisaltion needs to say is that “married partners will automatically be recorded as the second parent. All others seeking this role will need a full evaluation and a court ruling”.

    Marriage -v- CP
    Different.
    Equal.

  30. Simon Murphy 20 Jul 2009, 1:22pm

    David Cameron claims to support equality for gay people. I want proof of this. I want to see crazed homophobes like Stroud and Duncan Smith expelled from their party if they oppose equality. That will never happen of course as Cameron’s claims are fake and the Tories remain the nasty party.

  31. Oh right? So if you got two women who have a child together. Lesbian A carry the baby and Lesbian A woman to donate her egg for the IVF so that baby can have more biological factors – Does that mean Lesbian B still have no right even though it they used her egg?

  32. *Correction* Lesbian B to donate her egg

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