Who gives a shit?
This is a very brave man. This is a move in the right direction.
Let’s hope some member or members of the majority of Muslims in this country don’t attempt to do him in.
Islam was enlightened in the “Dark Ages when Northern Europe was in chaos. It had the best governement and religious tolerance and safe streets! This acadmenic is speaking sense but like those people of the past, he is obvioulsy liberal and may well fall foul of the “Mad Mullahs”. I hope he doesn’t!
Good news, I am in total agreement with Eddy.
Hearing this from a Muslim is indeed gratifying. This country is supposed to be a free country. So, why should anyone be afraid to say anything within our laws? More Power to his elbow I say.
good man. brave man. i hope he doesnt meet with an ‘accident’.
Could you change the photo please, it’s turning my stomach.
This lunatic, medieval cult has nothing to do with modern life, it’s time we started ignoring these cranks. We wouldn’t give this much page space to Jehaova’s Witnesses.
Andrew, it wasn’t Jehovah’s Witnesses that offered prayers to Allah before they flew planes into skyscrapers and killed 2000 New Yorkers, or offered prayers to Allah and then blew up three trains and a London bus, was it.
The comparison with muslims in France is telling. French muslims are much more integrated into society, whereas multiculturalism in Britain has allowed separatism. The main driver in France for integration is the separation of church and state meaning that there are no state funded faith schools. In the UK we have state funded muslim schools in muslim ghettos, with no integration. Sadly this is something that the Labour government has supported. And end to state funding to faith schools would be a very positive step.
Homosexuality can be compatible with astrology, voodoo, homeopathy and worshiping the moon too. Doesn’t mean any of these things are modern, relevant or worthwhile things to do with your time…
Who cares what islam thinks about anything. Just so long as it doesn’t try to impose its values on anyone who disagres with them – and that includes gay muslims and/or women who reject the misogyny of the cult.
does not need approval from religious sects
there is no proven gods
religions are indoctrination and lies.
we are born gay . that is natural.
Earwig..! Oh..!! Again..!!!
I shall refrain…
We hear you anyway, Keith! Loud and clear! :-)
Though I’m not a Muslim, and I do not disrespect other commentators here who are skeptical in the relevant of what Islam thinks, I do think it would be myopic to dismiss all people’s religious concerns.
Whether you are part of a religion or a staunch atheist, it doesn’t change that faith is and has long been a very powerful influence on culture as well as the individual. One cannot expect everyone to be perfectly enlightened and intellectual at all times. Also, it remains that a great deal many LGBT people themselves are still adherents of a religion or at least of a faith in something unproven. Whether or not it may actually be the case, to tell them they are stupid would do little more than alienate them from you when they could be your natural allies in a common pursuit of LGBT human rights and dignity.
For people of faith, their religious and/or spiritual life may be very important to them, and not something easily removed from the way they think and see the world. If LGBT rights and dignity can be reached within that framework, it would be far more meaningful than to coldly tell them that this attachment to their faith is completely irrelevant and expendable.
I say this as someone who has been almost completely alienated from the religious establishment I grew up in, but that never quite dulled by genuine spiritual nature and a belief in a power greater than myself. All that changed was that I came to exercise my own conscience and my own ethical processes far more than was ever expected of me before – when I was simultaneously told to exercise my conscience while being told to obey an institution’s official conscience without exception. The fact that my conscience comes at the disagreement of this establishment does not mean that entirely spirituality has been rendered moot. On the contrary, I continue to use much of what I was taught before, because actually having a conscience and striving to be ethical and treating other people right and arguing for their collective dignity are not (nor have ever been) bad things. And now I do that for my fellow gay people.
So everyone is free to be an atheist as much as they are free to believe in something unproven. But that in and of itself need not be cause of needless mutual alienation. You can’t deny who you are. But you can’t really deny who other people are either.
This is very welcome and I thank Dr Amanullah De Sondy for making these brave statements.
For a while now I’ve believed that the main threat to British gay rights comes from the rise of Islam in the UK. Over the last 10 years, political correctness, the concept of “multiculturalism” and out-of-control immigration (plus MUCH higher average birthrates in the asian communities) have resulted in the muslim population skyrocketing – and much of the community is notoriously homophobic (as the Dr pointed out). There’s an article in the Times somewhere showing that since 2004 the UK muslim population rose 10 times (yes, 10) faster than everyone else.
Islamic countries such as Iran are still executing people for being gay in the 21st century. “Milder” islamic countries impose lashes or lengthy prison sentences.
My partner is middle eastern so I have seen first hand how their community is extremely homophobic, so much so that he has to go to great lengths to hide his sexuality when visiting family/friends in that area (inner city “ghetto” area where it’s very rare to see a white face). The sad thing to remember is that there will be the same percentage of gay people growing up in these communities as there are in “our” race – I feel sorry for the pressure and despair they must feel.
I respect everyone’s freedom to religion, they can worship God, Allah or the Tooth Fairy for all I care, however the government should not fund religious groups/faith schools or give them any right to influence people’s lives. The evidence is stacked against the probablity of a “God” (as described in any of the human religions) existing – why should we in a secular, 21st century society be influenced or preached too or face discrimination because of respect/influence being given to people that believe in these “religions”.
Anyway sorry for long post. But to restate, the doctor’s comments are very welcome and we need more members of the Muslim community to make statements like this, it will help integration and alleive people’s concerns.
I am not really surprised with the survey results, unlike in the UK, Muslims in France and Germany must integrate into the French and German values, here in Germany there are not services in Urdu, Punjabi or Hindi and I do not know of the existence of any Muslim School or Education, thus these Muslims must indeed learn German and integrate. The same may well happen in France and other countries on the Continent.
I deeply believe, it is time for the UK to think about the mistakes commited in past by both Labour and Conservative Governments and stop providing these services in Urdu, Punjabi, Hindi, etc otherwise these people will never integrate into the British Society and this is a big problem. History is already telling that the policy is wrong. The old say say “In Rome do as the Romans do”, this is key for integration and this say is hundreds years old. Think about it.
we now have many communities where white faces are not only rare but unwelcome. Communities where all the services necessary can be provided by members of that community thus avoiding te need to speak English or go outside the “ghetto”.
All the initiatives to make life easiier for immigrant families are militating against integration, and while multiculturalism does enrich our society, segregation doesn’t. Various well-meaning people and authorities have also introduced schemes that favour incomers while the indigenous population think themselves disadvantaged – to the glee of the BNP.
We could have a vibrant “rainbow” society, what I fear we will have will be a society where large cities have no-go areas for people not of the areas ethnicity, areas where tribal mores rule, areas where lesbian and gay people hide their individuality
While this is to be welcomed, it’s not going to change anything. After all, there have been pro-gay christians for years but we’re still not accepted by the majority of them.
Sociological studies have shown that immigrants tend to form ghettos during the first generation; evaluate their native culture during the second; and intergrate during the third.
A move to the West is necessarily a move away from the East, but uprooting and culture shock do traumatize, more so when immigrants encounter discrimination.
For example, the look in the eyes of the young woman in the photo can be interpreted as contempt. It can also be interpreted as envy and longing.
Women and mothers have the most to gain from Democracy, and nothing will stop them. As for Jihad-minded extemists, they do exist as surely as fundamentalists exist in every culture and every country. In this regards, the undercurrent of law enforcement operates 24/7.
Things will never be perfect, but I need to believe that the majority cherish the betterment of humanity, as outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Why are so many column inches on this website given to Muslim views about gay people? I don’t give a damn what they think of us, the feeling is mutual as far as I’m concerned, the picture that accompanies this article really looks like something from the middle ages, not 21st century Britain. I very much doubt that islamic media have endless articles about what gay people think of them.
the reasons for concern are:
there are LGBT people in the muslim community who aren’t able to be true to htemselves and remain part of their families
there are pernicious influences from the Muslim community (through “faith cchools”, “community leaders”, self-styled paliaments) that inflence government, perpetuate homophobia, and attempt to displace our community from the places we’ve managed to get into
The treatment of homosexuals in Islam and the compatibility is well up for debate. There are too many conflicting scriptures, as every law Islam has does NOT come from the Koran, but off shoots of it, if you will, in the form of the Hadith et al.
However, my main issue or concern with Islam is how Muslim women are treated.
Afterall, women are over 50% of the world’s population and yet in some Muslim countries they make us less than 30% as so many are killed. It’s very sad as many Arab women are bright, bubbly people kept down by misogynistic laws enforced by their men.
I think we should always be on our guard against any religion that wants to disown/stone/flog/ chuck us off cliffs/burn us etc and so forth. Therefore we need to keep on eye on current trends. We already have muslim youth harrassing the gay village where I live!
Mike, gay village is that? Manchester’s? Tell us more, please.
Andy, #19, to answer your question as to why PinkNews reports on Muslim attitudes in the UK, the reason is that there is a significant Muslim population in many parts of the UK and as the academic interviewed states and as a recent bona fide survey revealed they have a general attitude of zero tolerance towards homosexuality. You might say, “Fine, as long as they keep it to themselves!”. And that’s where the problem and the threat to us lies. Islam is a zealous religion, it looks upon people who do not practise it as “infidels”, people who are lost and who need to be subjected to “the saving power” of Islam. What that means, Mike, is, whether you like it or not, the thrust of Islam is to alter YOUR way of life radically. Do you want that? Do you want homosexuality to be made illegal? Do you want to be punished for being gay? Some spokespeople of Islam in the UK today preach that gays and lesbians should be executed? Are you happy with that threat? Is that what you want?
Interesting fact is that French and German Muslims are more tolerant in comparison to British ones. I suppose it’s because the French Muslims come mostly from Maghreb countries. I’m under impression they are a little bit more liberal than the Islamic people from Arabian Peninsula.
Interesting point. It is a fact that not all Muslims are Arab and not all Arabs are Muslims. Like the members of other religions, we can expect various degrees of adherence to the ‘social faith’ into which people are born and raised. I suspect there are more Salmon Rushdie’s than we can imagine, just waiting for the chance to take off their masks in the security of Democratic countries.
Dr. Armanullah De Sondy should be given a forum and more air time.
Homosexuality has to be acted out either externally or unconsciously.
If homosexulality is acted out unconsciously by Muslim men, I would argue you can see this in their rather hysterical brotherhood . . . i.e the perpetuation of male-male institutions which reject and deny women access to postion of authority and power.
Islam is not compatible with any western values. Muslims are only in the UK because we have been forced to tollerate them. It hasnt worked.
This is a brave man but the religious of all denominations need to justify their belief in the supernatural before they start pontificating on what others can or can’t do. They are the ones with the explaining to do.
I stand and applaud Dr Sondy on his amazing and deliciously revolutionary contribution to the study of Islam. BRAVO!!!!!