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Black men at higher risk of HIV

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  1. Brian Burton 30 Jun 2009, 3:40pm

    What a load of BILGE water eminating from this article. Black sex partners are much better at sex and can carry on all night. Some people do not like to admit they prefer Black partners. HIV/Aids is spread through ignorance and a cavilear attitde bordering on stupidity. There are few Black or white gettoes left now in Gay comunities. Jobs for the various Civic Departments I think, these academic studys?

  2. I think Brian is being dangerously complacent. I suspect that one factor in all this is the greater isolation and closetry of gay men in some sections of black culture; something exacerbated by the greater influence of evangelical churches among them.

  3. See the thread about Michael Jackson being gay. It is no secret that black people are far more homophobic than most other races. Assuming that the gay/straight proportions are the same amongst all races, there are a lot of black people suppressing their sexuality, as there are nowhere near the numbers around that there are of other races. I suspect there is a lot going on that is all kept hush-hush.

  4. Re Brian Burton comments: “Black sex partners are much better at sex and can carry on all night. Some people do not like to admit they prefer Black partners.”

    What a sweeping generalisation you make. You can’t possibly back this up with facts, unless you’ve had sex with every black man in the world! Personally I’m not attracted to black men, and certainly don’t think that anyone would not want to “admit” to preferring them.

  5. Brian Burton 1 Jul 2009, 7:28am

    What a load of ignorant Tosh you lot are talking (no offence ment!) Let me tell you, that I was around when the very first Boat-loads of Jamacan immigrants hit the shores of this country. I was living in London at the time. Many of the immigrants made streaght for the Earls Court, Holland Park and Notting Hill Gay communities. Later, Queens of all ages were parading around the areas I mentioned with their Jamacan boyfriends. Richard, hows that for a sweeping generalisation? RobN, hows that for in the closet? Riondo, hows that for dangerously complacent? One thing though. I remember Laying on a sandy beach in the sun with a gourgous Black, when I just happened to remark that he smelled of pineapple. He replyed, “You know, I hate pineapple. Do you know what you whites smell of?” I waited with baited breath! ” You all stink of sour milk. It’s all the dairy products you eat.” My black friend said. So, My fellow threaders, do some reserch before you can generalise. (Again, no offence ment!)

  6. Sister Mary Clarence 1 Jul 2009, 8:23am

    Yep, Brian that’s absolutely perfect for ill-research generalisations. As you say ‘tosh’.

    Setting aside for the moment, your apparent notion that black people only come from the Caribbean, do you not think that the world may have moved on a little since the 50s for black people as well as white?

  7. Lezabella 1 Jul 2009, 9:43am

    I can’t believe you told someone they smell of pineapple ?!

    Random.

    :)

  8. Brian, if you came back to London now you would see how much things have changed. There are now large black, African communities with different culture and attitudes. Black gay people are more likely to be in the closet. Also the gay scene has vastly expanded and diversified, so there are no longer any straightforward gay venues just catering for gay people as their used to be in the past. They are all niche gay venues- one for black poeple, one for bears, one for muscle marys, one for indie kids etc etc etc. The gay community os no the big melting pot that it used to be even ten years ago.

  9. Brian Burton 1 Jul 2009, 1:30pm

    Tony,
    Your comment is the only sensible one to date. The two Lesbians are not my idea of chat companions.
    I must admit, London and I parted company in 1966. Apart from taking tea at the Ritz with friends in celibration of me and my Partner’s 35 year anniversary, two days incidenly, before the London Bombings. I have not even been very interested in London Life, nor am I now. I only put on the thread what I know and what I saw in the past in London. I realize that HIV/AIDS put paid to a certain promiscuous lifestyle, that a lot of Gays lived to regret. When I lived in Putney, London: There was Lots of Gay Pubs, Gay Clubs, fabulous Drag-Act Venues and you felt London belonged to you. It now seems to me, from what you and others say.That London is a place of segregation, division and worst of all fear! Well, I do not want any part of it thanks… Cheers Tony.

  10. It seems to me the research refers to the USA, not the UK.

    At the risk of galvanizing anyone’s complacency, I am white, and years ago I had a Barbadian lover for five years in America. A perfect 10/10, not only physically, but also mentally and socially.

    He was a perfect gentleman, so much so that I introduced him to my mother who was so impressed with him that she wanted to ‘adopt’ him.

    This man was the cleanest and most respectable gay man I have ever met. He actually taught me how to respect myself. I also met a few of his friends. They were kind, gentle and brotherly, and I might add, easy to look at. Some of them were married and living on the ‘Down Low’ among themselves. I believe that only a black man can fully understand and deeply love another black man; it’s not simply a sexual attraction, it’s a very strong bond.

    It doesn’t matter if a black man can ‘go all night’ or not; what matters is being accepted and respected by a black man. In my opinion, black men are precious companions and pleasant lovers, no more prone to HIV/AIDS than anybody else.

    The problem with research, and we all know it, is that we tend to find what we are looking for. Sad, but true. Personally, I disagree with the results of this research because, as the news article says, Americans do have a ‘legacy of racism towards blacks’. Isn’t it true, for example, that more black than white men and women are punished in America for the same crime, e.g. prison statistics?

    When all is said and done, Brian Burton makes the most common sense to me. Sister Mary Clarence too, of course, and I wish she would elaborate a bit. As we say, the person who asks the question, usually has the answer!!!

  11. Lezabella 1 Jul 2009, 3:25pm

    You sound as though you’ve been around the block Brian- “I know this, and I know that”!

    An arsehole like a wizard’s sleeve springs to mind :) Maybe it’s irritating you, so maybe that’s why you’re so God damn rude?!(just a joke, don’t go off your tits)

    I get the feeling that you come on here solely for arguments, and that you don’t like lesbians.

  12. Lezabella 1 Jul 2009, 3:47pm

    ” believe that only a black man can fully understand and deeply love another black man; it’s not simply a sexual attraction, it’s a very strong bond.

    It doesn’t matter if a black man can ‘go all night’ or not; what matters is being accepted and respected by a black man”

    I can well see your point bentham. Perhaps cultural understandings can come into force too. because both will have shared similar experiences growing up, etc.

    On the lesbian scene, I often find that most of the black girls want to get with, and chase, the white girls; rather than eachother.

    I’m still unsure why as many of the black or mixed race girls are very pretty.

  13. Lezabella:

    At the risk of going off on a tangant, and as an expression of gratitude for pondering my comment on black men, here is an historical tidbit I hope you will enjoy.

    On this date in 1804 the French writer George Sand was born (d. 1876). When she died, Turgenev wrote to Flaubert, “What a good man she was, and what a kind woman.”

    The following is a quote from George Sand, and it is followed by a comment by Margaret Fuller. Enjoy, and please excuse my pedantry.

    “My profession is to be free.

    I ask the support of no one, neither to kill someone for me, gather a bouquet, correct a proof, nor to go with me to the theater. I go there on my own, as a man, by choice; and when I want flowers, I go on foot, by myself, to the Alps.

    Universal suffrage, that is to say the expression of the will of all, whether for good or ill, is a necessary safety-valve. Without it, you will get merely successive outbreaks of civil violence. This wonderful guarantee of security is there to our hands. It is the best counterweight so far discovered.

    There is only one happiness in life, to love and be loved.

    Once my heart was captured, reason was shown the door, deliberately and with a sort of frantic joy. I accepted everything, I believed everything, without struggle, without suffering, without regret, without false shame. How can one blush for what one adores?

    Faith is an excitement and an enthusiasm: it is a condition of intellectual magnificence to which we must cling as to a treasure, and not squander on our way through life in the small coin of empty words, or in exact and priggish argument.”

    [Margaret Fuller on George Sand:] George Sand smokes, wears male attire, wishes to be addressed as Mon frère; perhaps, if she found those who were as brothers indeed, she would not care whether she were a brother or sister.

    But if these people of the future are better than we are, they will, perhaps, look back at us with feelings of pity and tenderness for struggling souls who once divined a little of what the future would bring.

    The mind has no sex.

    ***************************************************

    We are such complex beings, eh Lezabella. I wonder if what George Sand says about love doesn’t contradict everything I’ve said about black men only understanding black men. I just don’t know, but I do know that I did love a black man very much.

    Happy First of July!

  14. Brian Burton 1 Jul 2009, 5:21pm

    Lezabella,
    I like good text, I do not like sentences strung together with the F…word dominating or emphasising their point. Or even smart remarks like ‘arsehole like a wizard’s sleeve.’ When bad language comes across on my TV, I switch over, I do not want it in my living room. Like-wise text either on Pink. I apologise if you think I have been ‘plain rude.’ I hope things turn out better between us.

  15. Lezabella 1 Jul 2009, 5:37pm

    “Lezabella,
    I like good text, I do not like sentences strung together with the F…word dominating or emphasising their point. Or even smart remarks like ‘arsehole like a wizard’s sleeve.’ When bad language comes across on my TV, I switch over, I do not want it in my living room. Like-wise text either on Pink. I apologise if you think I have been ‘plain rude.’ I hope things turn out better between us”

    Say no more Brian, I won’t use it anymore. I understand why now and I apologise.

    And if in the near future I do use it, feel free to pull me up over it.

    It’s strange as I don’t swear atall when I actually talk.

    I think things will turn out better between us Brian, as I’ve read your posts on some things to do with the Tories etc and find myself agreeing with you.

  16. Sister Mary Clarence 2 Jul 2009, 9:58am

    As the apparently ‘token’ black man on this site, can I just say, the colour of someone else’s skin or their ethnic origin would not in any way affect whether I found them attractive of not.

    Whilst I appreciate fully that there may have been some cultural stigmas for earlier generations, this has dropped off significantly for second and third generation immigrants. I’m disappointed that so many people here still seem to be living in such a black and white, polarised society.

    I live in a multi-cultural society and I am happy to embrace all that it has to offer.

    The report is based as I understand it on research in the US. Its not the first research of its kind either there or here, and it seems to have come up with much the same finding as other research, however its conclusions seem to be a little different.

  17. What a lovely piece bentham. I have just read about ‘George Sand’ and find she is a very remarkable woman, very feisty! After reading about her life I think she probably was a lesbian, or atleast bisexual. Which gave her such insight to write such works.

    We are complex beings bentham and that is why we should follow our heart, our inner voice and our feelings.

    I get the impression you think about your black man a lot? It’s good to have known love. As the sayin goes, “It is better to have loved and lost, than to never have loved atall”.

  18. Brian Burton 2 Jul 2009, 5:28pm

    Lezabella,
    I told Bentham once that he was a ‘Prince amongst Men.’ Well, I’m getting to the stage where I think Lezabella is a ‘Princess amongst Woman.’

  19. Lezabella 3 Jul 2009, 9:16am

    Aw, stop Brian you’re maiking me blush!

    Thankyou very much indeed.

    If I can even be considered as a ‘Princess amongst women’ then I think you rank slightly higher! :)

    I agree, bentham is a lovely, caring, and sensitive man. If the world was full of ‘benthams’ it would be a much better place.

  20. Bentham: “There is only one happiness in life, to love and be loved.”

    You don’t half talk some cock sometimes. Utter sentimental drivel.
    Love is a product invented by hopelessly infatuated fools and peddled by Hollywood and Mills & Boon.

  21. Nice try, Rob.

    Check out Matt Alber singing “End of the World” at gaywisdom dot org. Swo-o-o-o-n-n-n-n! (video clip).

    Lezebella:

    He was the first man I ever loved; he taught me that love is possible between men in the heart of a cosmopolitan city. He was the first of the two men I have loved, and I have been living with the second one for the last 19 years, in the country.

    I wish I could think of a way to tie this in with the thread at hand, but I have never found any real evidence pointing to George Sands’ lesbianism. She did spend her entire adult life dressed in men’s elegant clothing, and she lived with Chopin for awhile in France. I think her bottom line says it all: the mind has no sex.

    Of course she was a Romantic. In fact, her literary work, “Middlemarch”, defines Romanticism as well as Victor Hugo’s or Coleridge’s, and we belong to another time, e.g. post-modernism where de-construction is the word of the day.

    Still, romantic feelings can be and often are most enriching, even as we stew in our own planetary pollution, a rosebud well rooted in a pile of manure!

    There are tremendously talented and affirmative Lesbians who deserve our admiration: Ellen Tremaye a.k.a. Edward de Lacy Evans; Eleanor Butler & Sarah Ponsonby a.k.a. the ‘Ladies of Llangollen'; and the incredible Dorothy Tipton a.k.a. Billy Tipton.

    While she never did express any opinion on the ‘higher risk of HIV among Black men’ (ha-ha), Anne Lister’s writings reveal clearly how and why women fall in love with each other, and record for posterity the ‘sweet nothings’ that keep them together.

    Check out H. Whitbread (ed.) “I Know My Own Heart: The Diaries of Anne Lister 1791-1840″, London, 1988.

    There’s a bentham in every man’s heart, without exception. I wish I were a bit more like you! Sharp as a tack! And RobN too. But I gotta be me-e-e-e-e!

  22. RobN:

    Possibly the reason we dislike the Romantics lies in their propensity to remind us that the 19th century nurtured the hope of freedom and progress in the 20th century.

    It was Thomas Hardy, of all people, who immortalized this hope in his poem, ‘The Darkling Thrush’, written on New Year’s Eve, 1899.

    Yet, this was the very author who had written about the negative impact of the Industrial Revolution which sang:

    ‘There is only one happiness in life: to own and to be greedy.’

    T.S. Eliot picked it up from there in ‘The Wasteland’, and sweet Virginia Woolf, witnessing another World War brought on by ‘freedom and progress’, walked into a river, taking with her the romantic hope of George Sand:

    “But if these people of the future are better than we are, they will, perhaps, look back on us with feelings of pity and tenderness for struggling souls who once devined a little of what the future would bring.”

    Ri-i-i-n-n-n-g…pick up the phone, RobN!

    And then there was HIV/AIDS, and that brings us back on the thread.

    Do I hear the sound of one hand clapping? Or is that just the sound of my own cynicism? Sing us a romantic tune, Matt Alber. Let’s just forget about reason for a minute, and dream, dream, ‘dream-a-little-dream-for-me’.

  23. Sister Mary Clarence:

    Now that you mention it, it wasn’t in the color of his skin; it was in his kiss.

  24. Sentimental twaddle. I’ve never loved anyone, although there have been a few misguided fools that claimed to have loved me.
    I soon put pay to that crap.

  25. Whatever you say, dear.

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